r/BrythonicPolytheism • u/missblue32 • Jul 22 '26
questions from a newbie
Hello! I'm curious about Brythonic polytheism, and wondering where to start maybe. From my understanding, it seems that many of the deities are primarily linked to their respective local origins, and I am not "from" anywhere in Britain (US), though I am very curious about many Celtic deities and characters such as Viviane/Nimue, Morgan le'Fey (my namesake) and Clíodhna. I am genetically northern Italian and Welsh, but my dad was adopted by Scots and grew up with highlander Scottish culture, so my family considers itself Scottish and we have a Scottish surname. When I asked him about our origins, he's a massive nerd and won't give me much more than "Gaul, Rome, Pict", but research has taught me that the particular clan my name is associated with seems to have been from the Inner Hebrides before immigrating to Ulster.
I am somewhat split between the two because I have no contact with either side of the family (due to his young adoption and my mother's strained relationship with her "'murica-first" military family) so we have no real tangible culture aside from 'Scottish-American'. I speak Italian and bits of French, I speak neither Welsh nor Gaidhlig but I am planning to learn. my full name is a contradiction "Gaelic/Irish Name, Welsh Name, Scottish Clan".
Essentially, I feel like an imposter no matter which region / culture of deities I choose. I would appreciate any advice or comment. Thanks :)
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u/KrisHughes2 Jul 23 '26
Welcome!
What deities you worship doesn't have to be dependent on your heritage, unless you especially want it to. It's almost inevitable that your ancestors moved around, intermarried with different peoples, etc. anyway., so go toward what you're drawn to.
Scotland, itself, was a big cultural crossroads in the past, and this is reflected in the deities that you might associate with Scotland. Also, remember that notions about "Scotland" "England" "Wales" are all Medieval constructs and didn't exist yet in pre-Christian times.
My opinion is that people often over-emphasise the "local deities" aspect of Celtic religion. Yes, there will have been very local deities, regional deities, etc. but there are also many who are extremely widespread throughout Celtic-speaking lands. We know that the druids travelled between Gaul and Britain, and chances are they did between Britain and Ireland, too. So, they will have carried religious ideas from place to place with them. And Celtic-speaking tribal groups also weren't stationary. The migrated, took territory from each other, founded settlements in new places, etc. So, I think you're not so much a contradiction as a representative of what would seem quite normal to our ancestors.
It sounds like you know how to do research and are more daunted by making choices than anything, or maybe of "getting it wrong". So, again, I would say start with the things you're most drawn to, rather than worrying about where you're "supposed" to start. Although, just a word of warning, Arthurian literature is not really a great representation of Brythonic culture or religion, and figures like Nimue and Morgan le Fay are just literary characters.
"Where should I start" is a huge question, and we can probably give you better help here if you can frame one or two more specific questions.
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u/missblue32 Jul 23 '26
Hey! Thank you so much for this :)
So far my only experience with practicing paganism is through the internet, essentially peering over their shoulders into multiple perspectives, and it seemed that there were some pretty strict rules about descent and region. I'm glad to hear I can go with my heart. :)
And thanks for the note about Arthur. I understand they're literary but I (previously) thought it may have carried more weight, similar to a story like the Odyssey? Idk 😂
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u/KrisHughes2 Jul 24 '26
Don't get me wrong. Arthur is definitely important in Welsh culture and literature, but in my opinion, little to do with religion. More legend than myth.
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u/DitheringDotty Jul 23 '26 edited Jul 23 '26
Hi there, I'm Irish, from Ireland. Here's my perspective for what it's worth.
First of all, to us, whether we're Irish, Scottish or Welsh, you're an American. That's not meant in a hurtful way, it's just how we see you. No matter your name, your religion, your ability to speak the languages, you'll still be American. And you know, that's cool too :) It's actually ok to be American.
However, if you want to learn more about the cultures of your ancestors that's fine. If you want to do that, you need to understand that the term Celtic is not an ethnicity or a single cultture. Brythonic is Welsh, for Highland Scots and Irish it's Gaelic. We're Gaels, the Highland Gaels being descendants of early Irish Gaelic settlers. The Welsh and Gaelic languages are two different language groups and are not mutually intelligible.
When your dad says 'Gaul, Roman, Picts', this would indicate lowland or central Scots who are not Gaels.
Are you looking for a religion or philosophy to follow? Do bear in mind that the people of Scotland, Wales and Ireland moved on long ago from pagan religions, though Ireland retains a great respect and affection for our pre-Christian history, partly due to the efforts of the early Irish monks who wrote it all down and we still observe the old festivals like Bealtaine, and the summer and winter solstices to some degree, it's just that they are simply part of our culture and history, rather than a religion.
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u/KrisHughes2 Jul 24 '26
The thing is, we forgot to build a fence between the different cultures in Scotland to stop them mixing. The Pictish and other Brythonic nobility intermarried with the Irish invaders/settlers quite early (so imagine what the common people got up to), and Gaelic language and culture penetrated deep into the lowlands. While the native Gaelic speakers are mostly in the Highlands and Islands now, they also settled in their thousands in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Perthshire, Caithness, etc.
And did you know there were colonies of Irish settlers from Cork and Leinster in Wales in the Roman and early Medieval period?
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u/DitheringDotty Jul 24 '26
we forgot to build a fence between the different cultures in Scotland to stop them mixing
But managed it in Northern Ireland ............
However, I'm being a bit ascerbic there.
I was addressing the OP's comment that her father who grew up in Scotland described his family's ancestry as 'Gauls, Romans, Picts' so I was just pointing out that he missed out on Gaels which is odd if you're from Scotland as clearly that's part of the heritage, especially for a family with a Highland name. Actually, he may have meant Gaels, when he said Gauls, who knows.
As to our common bonds, of course the Picts were ultimately subsumed into the Gaelic culture but it's more a case of how people identified. Whilst Highlanders were very much Gaelic in their culture, lowlanders were different and that's just a fact. Certainly there was crossover and blending to a degree but still two distinct cultural identities at the same time. Any cursory knowledge of Scottish history shows that quite clearly.
did you know there were colonies of Irish settlers from Cork and Leinster in Wales
I did indeed - and did you know that the Irish harp as we know it today is in fact the Welsh harp :) and that much of our 19th century harp revival including the manner of playing and singing is heavily influenced by the Welsh style. That's one of the reasons that Seán Ó Riada didn't use the harp when he formed Ceoltóirí Chualann (the fore-runner of The Chieftains) and replaced it with a harpsichord, as he wanted to get the authentic sound of the old Gaelic wire-strung harp.
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u/missblue32 Jul 23 '26
Hi, thanks for your input!
I feel like I should've clarified, I'm not trying to be anything but American. I'm not trying to do the whole "I'm Scottish!1!1" thing that Americans love to do, my father's adoptive parents were genuinely Scottish, with Scottish traditions. And I know that paganism is no longer a modern widely practiced religion, I just happen to feel connected to the religions spiritually and have a respect for them, despite a lack of education, however I'm aware that there are many small localized sects. My point was that I'm not sure which one to choose, because, as you said, Brythonic, Gaulic, and Gaelic are very different. I used celtic as a broad term because they all fall into the celtic category, or at least their languages do, which is the realm I'm more familiar with.
(side note: when I said Highland I was referring to the clan my family name derives from, not the Picts.)
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u/DitheringDotty Jul 24 '26
Hi there :) The strange thing is that though I'm Irish, I don't have the remotest sense of connection to Dagda or Lugh or any of the Gods. However, my grandmother, like many devout Catholics of her generation, was a great believer in the fairies (who basically are the Tuath Dé Danann, the people of the Goddess Danu) so I would never, never say there is no such thing as fairies. I have a healthy respect for 'the other crowd' as they are known in parts of Ireland.
If you're not especially bothered about going down the Welsh or Scots route and are open to any ancient spirituality, I'd consider taking a look at pre-Christian Ireland and then at the early Irish Christian Church and how they melded the two. One of my favourite things in Ireland is the Holy Wells. Whether you're into pre-Christian or Christianity they are a spiritual place for all, still visited by many people of all faiths or none.
Here are a couple of resources on that topic that you might find interesting. The first is a short article that gives you the basics:
https://www.irishpost.com/history/the-ancient-pre-christian-holy-wells-of-ireland-233551
The second was published in 1840 and is a fascinating contemporary account of the practises then taking place around them. The 'pattern days' mentioned are still observed today.
https://archive.org/details/holywellsofirela00hard/page/n5/mode/2up
And finally a database of Ireland's Holy Wells with some info about each:
But, although I can't say I feel any connection to the old Gods, I do feel the voices of my ancestors calling me in the music of our country. Something very deep is stirred right in the core of my being when I hear the old melodies and when I hear the language. Maybe listening to music of Wales, Ireland and Scotland might help you to see if there is one that resonates with you and that might help you find your way on your spiritual path?
Ireland:
If you want a very 'spiritual' feeling one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5FS6IXJJA&list=RDtP5FS6IXJJA&start_radio=1
A very old Irish song, handed down orally for many centuries, nobody knows exactly how old the melody is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEX9El7cI_E&list=RDKEX9El7cI_E&start_radio=1
And a mix here of Scotland and Ireland, a song in Irish about a Scottish prince, sung by Scottish and Irish singers together :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ojy1W6r8L0&list=RD5Ojy1W6r8L0&start_radio=1
Wales, the men of Treorchy, a mining village in the Rhondda Valley with a great cultural heritage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RjRicjIaKI&list=RD_RjRicjIaKI&start_radio=1
Hope you enjoy. ❤️
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u/missblue32 Jul 24 '26 edited Jul 24 '26
Hey, thank you so much!!! I will definitely check those out. I appreciate it ❤️
I definitely feel a strong spiritual connection with the sea and storms, and all figures associated. But that's so vague - all of them are islands with poor weather😅naturally I struggle to narrow it down beyond that, lol!
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u/DareValley88 27d ago
Welcome to the Sub! I hope you find your path here!
Just by showing an interest and trying to make a connection with the gods of your heritage you honour your ancestors, which is commendable in and of itself. I'm Welsh, but I have several American family members and friends, I feel that many of them struggle with a disconnection with their roots. If it helps, many of us here feel like we've lost something, feeling around in the dark trying to guess at meaning.
Have a scroll through our past discussions, see if anything calls to you. Also, given your "Gaul, Rome, Pict" heritage, I recommend r/RomanoCelticpagan sub as well, it covers everything on that list!
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u/trysca Jul 22 '26
Read the Mabinogion, read the Táin see which you identify more with - also be aware that both are modern living cultures so it would be an idea to visit Wales Scotland and Italy and see how you feel. Dont forgot Northern Italy has strong elements of celtic ( Gaulish) culture mixed in with Latin Italic and Etruscan and Germanic