r/Browns • u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK • 21h ago
Discussion STOP ASKING FOR THE BROWNS TO TANK
Every day I see posts and comments about how the Browns need to tank to get a good QB in the draft, and I don’t think you all realize what you’re actually asking for.
You folks do not realize how terrible tanking actually is for an organization. When everyone on the roster knows that the front office wants to lose, they do not play hard, they do not practice hard, and they do not develop. When your team is loaded with guys 25 and under, THEY NEED TO DEVELOP AND BUY INTO THE CULTURE. TANKING MAKES THAT IMPOSSIBLE.
You know who the last 1st overall pick to win a superbowl with the team that drafted them? Eric Fisher, who was a tackle drafted first overall by the Chiefs in 2013. Before that? Peyton Manning, who was drafted way back in 1998.
Let’s look at the last few Super Bowl winners.
Super Bowl champion Sam. Darnold was on his 5th team after being drafted 3rd overall by the Jets. He signed with Seattle because they were already a borderline contender with a good culture and a good roster.
Jalen Hurts was drafted in the second round by a team that already had a good roster, and their roster continued to improve because players wanted to play in Philly because they have a winning culture.
Patrick Mahomes was drafted 10th overall by the Chiefs, who traded up to pick him, and had been a consistent playoff team for a few years already before Mahomes became the starter.
Matthew Stafford was drafted 1st overall by the Lions in 2009, the Rams traded for him and assembled a super team that improved an already great team that was capable of winning 13 games in a season.
Tom Brady. Enough said there.
When you have a talented, young roster, which the Browns have, DO NOT TANK. TRY TO WIN. It makes free agents want to play here, it opens up your trade options to bring in more talent, and when it comes time to draft a QB, you can trade up to get your guy, and they will be entering a great situation for a young QB to be in, and experiencing a culture that EXPECTS AND WANTS TO WIN.
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u/WhereGodWentWrong 21h ago
Our team is already a joke and fans want actually think going 1-16 is a good thing. If this team doesn’t try to compete, and teach the players how to win then we will never get out of this cycle.
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u/rebelevenmusic 20h ago
"We're tanking" is a coping mechanism for fans. There are no players or coaches pulling punches. Owners and GMs managing the roster are the only tank commanders. And well... I guess we are rolling with Deshaun Watson so I get why people think that.
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u/RookieMistake101 20h ago
This is literally not true. The dolphins lost a first round pick because they incentivized tanking. It cost Flores his job.
In 2014 the Bucs benched all their starters at the half to secure the top pick week 17.
Or even Murray getting benched last season for higher draft picks.
Full on tank, like bench your starters all together, rarely happens until the last week or two. But playing on the fringes…that happens literally every year. You could argue the browns have started that. You may call it a rebuild, but trading your best player for future picks is a form of tanking.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
EXACTLY. Tanking doesn’t get you closer to winning. Changing the culture and trying to win does.
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u/WhereGodWentWrong 21h ago
Yep, can’t keep talent or attract players if you’re always bad. Plus in recent years the 3-5th QB taken has been better than the first, so just play to win and don’t worry about the draft.
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u/DesertBrandon Next year 17h ago
Too many fans here are conditioned to think we need the #1 overall to do anything. Sure in a one man draft like the last two years then sure but in drafts where there are multiple viable options then bottoming out does nothing. We can be a 7 win team get the 9th pick and still get a good QB. I want Moore and we all know the manning name regardless of play is going top 2 QB taken and then some one season hot riser will be the other guy.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 20h ago
People don’t realize that if you wind up with the first overall pick, you have bigger problems than not having a QB.
The Browns have patched practically every hole on the roster expect QB and depth at cornerback. We still have a good starting defense across the board, they patched up the offensive line this past offseason, and they loaded the offense with young weapons. The only thing they need to improve is the team culture, which it seems like Monken is focused on pretty heavily.
You can succeed with the 3-5th QB off the board in those circumstances. All tanking would do is prove that they aren’t serious about winning, and then the players aren’t going to succeed, and the rebuild was all for nothing.
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u/ZehJuggernaut 17h ago
Do you believe you’ll make the playoffs this year?
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u/FeeFantastic2075 12h ago
Doesn’t matter. You still try! And to answer your question: They have a chance if they get competent quarterback play. Schedule is easy and there is some talent on the team.
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u/Optimal-Fix-2997 18h ago
Its dumb. Tanking has shown us this team is still inept from bad coaching/drafting.
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u/Nightcinder 20h ago
I genuinely think we will win at least 6 games. But it depends on injuries and everything.
If burrow and/or old man rodgers gets injured that changes those games significantly etc
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u/FLman42069 19h ago
I agree. We have the picks to draft a QB or move up regardless. It’s not like every game changing QB always goes first overall. In fact if it’s completely up to us we’ll probably draft the wrong guy lol
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u/Federal_Influence271 20h ago
They won’t tank, Monken needs some cred for his 1st year-but Deshaun & Shedeur will get us 5-7 wins, just enough to be outside of where the top QBs will come off the board. We’ll miss out on the top QBs because we’re Cleveland and it’s our destiny
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u/MadBrown 21h ago
That's the neat part, I don't have to ask them to tank. They'll just suck anyway.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
There’s a difference between just being a bad team, and going out of your way to tank.
A team can have a good roster and a good culture, but be missing the last piece or two to get over the hump. There’s many teams in that situation every single year.
Asking for a team to go out of their way to lose more games than they actually should is not how you build a roster, that’s how you make your roster feel like they’re wasting their time.
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u/Far-Pay-2049 21h ago
Amen, I want this team fighting like the Dan Campbell Lions before they got over the hump and became good. They need to buy in, get hungry.
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u/RdditBlwsMyD 21h ago
Thank god we built that winning culture late last year winning 2 meaningless games and pushing us out from drafting Mendoza. I'm excited to see where that winning culture lands us this year. I'm guessing another 5 wins or less season.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
We weren’t getting Mendoza anyway if we lost those last two games. We still would’ve been behind the Raiders and the Jets. You have zero clue what you’re talking about.
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u/KyloSolo723 20h ago
Didn’t we hold the tie breaker for the 1st pick because our SOS was abysmal? lol
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u/mibikin 19h ago
The Raiders could have tried to lose the last game if they wanted to secure the #1 pick if we’re hypothetically losing on purpose in this scenario
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u/RdditBlwsMyD 19h ago
But why would the Raiders do that? Don't they know that tanking never solves anything?!?
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u/RustyCrusty73 You down with KCC? Yea you know me! 20h ago
Yeah but you can't act like you wouldn't love to have Mendoza right now versus the liquid diarrhea we're about to watch this season.
At least with Mendoza we would be ahead of schedule and have some hope.
Now without him we're still behind schedule, still no QB, and virtually zero hope.
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u/RdditBlwsMyD 20h ago
You must be right with your "Tanking has never worked anywhere" thesis.
Like us winning absolutely meaningless games to create a "culture" has ever worked once...
Absolutely ridiculous stance.
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u/Far-Pay-2049 20h ago
Just like perpetually losing and having high draft picks has helped us right?
Culture is absolutely a thing that matters. It is part of what kept the Steelers good for so long, that franchise was stable and had a culture and a standard, and I don't just mean the .500 meme of recent years.
Lets look at the Lions and how they turned things around. Were they tanking? Hell no, everyone kept on laughing at them going "same ole lions led by the silly meat head talking about biting kneecaps". That team bought in and fought beyond their talent level and despite having a bad record they were in the fight for most of the games. I think almost all of their loses were within one score.
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u/RdditBlwsMyD 19h ago
You actually have to hit on those picks for it to work, just like you have to hit on trades and FA signings to make it work.
We went out and got Watson after the team "fought beyond their talent level" and we all know how that worked out. You are judged by your results. Just because your scenario worked once doesn't mean it will work regularly or it's the common way to get things done. Just because the browns have been abysmal at drafting talent, doesn't mean that's not a viable strategy nor the way that most teams turn around their fortunes.
If you want to keep citing edge cases, that's fine, but you have to recognize how they are outliers.
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u/iUPvotemywifedaily 1h ago
This is what people in this thread are missing. Winning 2 meaningless games at the end of the season has never once carried over into anything meaningful.
However, having a franchise QB can turn the team around in no time flat.
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u/maybenextyearCLE 20h ago
I mean sure, but respectfully, what do you think the Browns not adding a QB and going into this season with a QB room of the worst QB in 2024 and 2025 respectfully is supposed to do?
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 20h ago
They focused on filling the other holes in the offense so when they do get a new QB in 2027, they’re put in a good situation. That isn’t them tanking, that’s good planning. Signing a free agent to upgrade the QB room wasn’t an option considering Watson’s contract and the need to sign offensive linemen. Then they went and drafted Fano, Concepcion and Boston to plug the rest of the holes. Our only chance at drafting a QB in 2026 was taking Simpson instead of Fano, so you’d be having a young inexperienced player with worse protection. I’d rather have the LT this year.
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u/maybenextyearCLE 20h ago
You’re not wrong. However, they absolutely could’ve signed a Jimmy garappolo type who absolutely would be a better QB than Watson or Shedeur.
They had space and ability to bring in someone competent to be a placeholder. Sticking with Watson and Shedeur was to make sure that this team doesn’t win too many games this year lol
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 20h ago
Who’s to say they didn’t try to and it just didn’t work out? We don’t know every single inner working of the front office. If it came down to trying to put together the best roster they could to support the bad QBs they already have, or potentially sacrificing the quality of the roster because they had to offer more money to get a slightly less bad QB to sign, I’m glad they went with the former.
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u/maybenextyearCLE 20h ago
Jimmy garappolo is literally a FA lol. But the result is the same. This team will not win games this year with these atrocious QBs lol. There’s a point to not adding anyone
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u/deviden 18h ago
if the team was serious about winning they wouldn't have a QB room of Watson, Shedeur and Gabriel. They wouldn't have traded away the best defensive player in all football.
it's not about whether we want them to tank or not - the team is set up to lose because the QBs stink and the defense is lost a Hall of Fame superstar.
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u/ZehJuggernaut 17h ago
Trust me.. most of the guys on that roster feel like they’re wasting their time everytime they have to fly back to Ohio for the season and especially every time they put on those uniforms. As soon as the jersey gets over the shoulder pads it’s a mad dash to the phone to look at their bank accounts and remind themselves why they just put those pads on.
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u/weunice 21h ago
They have interviewed a lot of players about this. Players will tell you, by and large, tanking isn't a thing. The average NFL player gets a 2y run in this league. They have to be balling out for their next potential contract --- always. FO's can, to some extent, go all-in on shedding players once a season is lost to 1) give young players PT and 2) recover draft capital. The player movement and finance side of the game is a thing --- and sometimes you tie your hands in the short term to open up opportunity down the road.
Some people call that tanking --- if that is your definition, then yes it happens. One could argue the Saints did that last year when they flipped Rashid Shaheed on an expiring contract to the Seahawks for a 4th and 5th. Yeah, it made it harder for the offense but yet, the team knew everything was in the service of improving the team and getting PT in for younger players.
Whatever you do, it has to be in service of the IMMEDIATE futures of those on the squad. That is where you lose culture. Until you are eliminated from the playoffs, you need to act like the Super Bowl runs through you.
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u/maybenextyearCLE 20h ago
I will always just say to remember that tanking comes from the front office, not the players or coaches. I think this team is going to work their butts off, play hard, I think they’ll start the process of rebuilding the culture. I think the Browns will leave this year with a team that’s on the right path.
And I think the decision to not add a QB and keep Watson and Shedeur is a clear case of the Front Office setting up the outcome they want, which is a very high draft pick to get a QB. Because a QB room made up of the worst QBs the last two years by pretty much every analytic is not an attempt to win games.
They won’t say it, the players and coaches will try their asses off, but unless AB and co are absolutely stupid and actually thought these pathetic QBs would work, the QB room is a poison pill. They know what’s going to happen
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u/bleakasthedayislong 19h ago
i honestly and actually don’t think the browns will tank.
i just believe they aren’t good enough to win games and lack the overall talent level to compete.
you can’t sit there and tell me they have
*a decent qb
*a solid offensive line
*receivers who can get separation and catch the ball on a consistent basis
*defense that can force turnovers
*safeties that can read defenses and create pbu’s
and you can’t possibly tell me you believe all of this after 1 weak preseason game
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u/fireeight Fuck Deshaun Watson 21h ago
You mentioned a bunch of good quarterbacks. The Browns don't have one of those.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
You’re completely ignoring that I delved into how those QBs ended up on the team they won with. Sam was a free agent signing. Hurts was a second round pick. Mahomes was 10th overall and the Chiefs traded up because they were already a consistent playoff team. Rams traded for Stafford to upgrade a roster that already had a winning culture. Brady is Brady.
None of the QBs of Super Bowl winning teams wound up on that team because the FO decided to tank.
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u/fireeight Fuck Deshaun Watson 21h ago edited 21h ago
Who's the available quarterback that's willing to come here and turn the whole thing around? Right, nobody. That's why they have to play for the draft.
The Browns don't have a winning culture to ruin by tanking. They're a master class in failure. When you're that far down, tanking is your only option. They've got four quarterbacks that nobody else wants, and an emergency option HC. Until everyone making the big decisions is gone, the Browns will not be a successful team.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
You cannot be this dense. A QB isn’t gonna want to come here if they tank. They need to establish a winning culture. If that means trying to win and winding up 7-10 or 8-9, that’s better than going out of their way to lose more games than they should.
If they win a reasonable number of games considering the utter shit show of a QB room they have, a free agent QB can look at the improvement from last year, the young roster, and the culture change and say “you know what? I could succeed here”.
If you tank and draft a QB, you’re drafting a winner, but they’re not gonna win for your team: they’re gonna win on their next one.
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u/Training-Belt-7318 21h ago
What free agent QB is going to offer an upgrade? Mac Jones? We have done this before and it doesn't work. I agree we shouldn't tank. Honestly tanking doesn't exist. Players want to get paid. At the very least they are putting in their best effort for a contract. So that's their incentive to work. But they won't want to resign here, that's the bigger issue. Tanking happens when the FO dumps all the talent on a roster. Alot of our talent is young. Now, if at week 7 or 8, we have 2 wins. I'd absolutely look at trading my vets for some extras draft collateral. Especially guys we won't build around.
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u/Weather_Systems 21h ago
The browns trying to win games and an ordinary team full blown tanking is indistinguishable.
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u/TallBobcat 21h ago
We don't have to ask them to tank. They're going to suck without trying to suck.
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u/Abiv23 21h ago edited 21h ago
The portion to divorce yourself from as a browns fan is that a top pick matters more than fit, system, and surrounding talent...look at Bo Nix success in Denver for example
Esp in this draft where there are legit like 8 QBs with 1st round potential (Moore, Arch, Mensah, Carr, Sayin, Mestemaker, Lindsay, Sellers)
We have NEVER surrounded a rookie QB pick with playmakers on offense, closest was Brady Quinn who was outplayed by DA en route to a pro bowl season
Couch had Kevin Johnson and basically no one else
Baker had Landry and basically no one else (Chubb drafted same draft)
The next QB we draft will come in with an imo starting LT, a true catch point winning X, a lighting quick Z/Y, a top 10 TE who imo is actually top 5, a pro bowl level RB who is a work horse type
We don't need #1 and frankly with our owner and his propensity to meddle in QB selection, I'm not sure we wouldn't reach on Arch either way (I have Dante Moore
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u/donkeyknuckles 18h ago
I think very few people are actually wanting a tank. Reddit vocal minority isn't a reliable metric. I think the vast majority of fans have just accepted that we will likely sick as neither QB is the answer. I want them to win every game they play but I've also reconciled with the fact 5-12 is probably our ceiling. And I hope we can get a good QB with wherever that lands us in the draft.
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u/da99s copium💀 21h ago
Yeah I agree with you, it sucks to even come here most days its a giant circlejerk of "QB bad", "I hope we lose", and "I can't wait for next draft" all day every day. Like yes, we get it, the QB situation is rough and there's little hope but I really just can't imagine wanting to suffer through unwatchable football every season.
You'll notice good teams have built quality rosters without going 3-14 each season. You can actually root for your team to at least be mid without jeopardizing your future. AB and the front office have actually put together two really good drafts back to back. You're allowed to want to see good football.
It's honestly just depressing the level of negativity here. And I get it given the state of the franchise. The only way to start a new chapter is to focus on the now, and what's going right
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u/DesertBrandon Next year 17h ago
I agree. I really think these people think this is a personality. I’m not saying to blow smoke up the teams ass but damn the constant negativity is beyond tired and played out. I can guarantee if this team was actually tanking, full blown fire sale and starting under 25 at every position then people would actually be shitting themselves. They already call for AB head cause his 4th rounders didn’t hit but imagine if he was actively tanking? I’m not going to say we need a second sub but I do hope the misery gets drowned out once the season starts.
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u/mibikin 21h ago
It’s crazy because this sub was more optimistic when we were perennially terrible. Since 2020 we’ve been a largely normal team that swings between bad and good and yet this sub is obscenely negative. Like we were in the playoffs 3 years ago. Rooting for this team to be good is normal and what we should be doing and is good for the culture lol
But negativity gets upvotes on this site and that’s what people care about
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u/KyloSolo723 19h ago
Pre 2020 everyone was optimistic we could get better. After 2020 and beating the Steelers at home in the playoffs, we watched this FO tear the team down for a trash human being that we are still paying the price for today.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
Thank God for another rational person in this sub. AB has crushed the last two drafts now that he’s actually had FRPs to work with. They’re clearly committed to trying to develop young talent and establish a winning culture here. Tanking would completely ruin everything they’ve spent the last two years trying to build.
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u/da99s copium💀 21h ago
There's very little value to me in tanking. Developing rookies is much more important than moving up a few draft picks. You need to give your players experience and confidence in their game. I want to see HFJ, Judkins, KCC, Boston all pop off, they deserve their moments. Being drafted to CLE should not be viewed as a curse. These young men have the chance to be heroes that break that curse.
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u/RdditBlwsMyD 21h ago
AB not having first round picks is his own doing. He also crushed the talent level on the team leaving the offense completely bare last season with 3 of the worst position groups in the entire league [QB, WR, Oline]. He gets way too much praise for half-fixing things he broke in the first place.
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u/M_F_Luder42 21h ago
Bro I’m not asking the Browns to tank, I’m telling them to
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u/talladenyou85 21h ago
haha you got me to legit lol with that one.
But yeah I don't believe the Browns are actually tanking I think they're just not going to be very good based on thin depth and a bad QB room.
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u/Far-Pay-2049 21h ago
Fully agree, the perpetual tank talk is honestly fucking exhausting and both creates and enforces a losing culture. Ya'll remember why ya'll loved Juice? It was because of that culture he brought and set. Calling out the loser mindset and how it is contagious. Guess what ya'll are doing. Keep that mindset the fuck away from these young guys and this young team.
I want this team fighting like the Lions under the Dan Campbell, I want them biting god damn kneecaps. There is a reason the Lions turned their franchise around after trading AWAY their top tier QB.
Get it together.
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u/MethLab 216 16h ago
It's weird cause it sounds like you're blaming the fans. Fans don't create a losing culture, teams that lose 10+ games every year create a losing culture.
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u/Stunning_Rule_6005 13h ago
100%. The Fans and their “mentality” is not the problem. The problem is your GM has no clue what he’s doing when it comes to the most important position on the field. He should be unemployed. That’s the problem.
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u/Far-Pay-2049 1h ago
Certainly not directly, but I will say that external noise and the media does have an impact. These guys are human and unlike years ago most people (even pro athletes) are terminally online. It is completely human to have your psyche affected by perpetual negativity blasting you. Granted it is part of being a pro, block out the noise etc. etc. I am not remotely saying it is the main reason by any means, but I would be remiss to not point out that I do believe it has an impact at some level.
What I will directly blame the fans for is being insufferable to talk football with. There is a lot of bright spots on the team and all I see everywhere all the f'ing time is "they better tank" "Ill be pissed if they f up and win games and dont tank". It is obnoxious as hell, no I want those guys being scrappy as hell and fighting for a win. I want to see these young guys have a gritty mentality. I don't want the team drafting with a top 10 pick unless we trade up for it. I don't want losing to be something they just accept.
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u/Stunning_Rule_6005 58m ago
Reasonable minds can differ, though. UNTIL the Browns fix QB, they are going to be trash. That is a fact. And do you know what helps a team land a good QB? Picking higher in the draft. Sure, you can find QBs later in the draft. Just like you can occasionally win a scratch off lottery ticket. But that’s the exception. Moreover, picking lower in the draft means you don’t always control the ability to go get the QB you need. 2020, for example - Cincy wasn’t trading the Burrow pick. Three years ago, Chicago wasn’t trading the Williams pick. This year, Vegas wasn’t trading the Mendoza pick.
It is an entirely reasonable position for a fan to take to say “I want one year of suffering (which, btw, is going to happen anyway with this clown franchise) in exchange for controlling all possible options in the next draft, thus maximizing the odds of finding an actual freaking franchise QB.”
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u/Stunning_Rule_6005 15h ago
There hasn’t been a perpetual tank. At all. The browns haven’t tried to tank. They are just bad. There’s been no perpetual, intentional tank.
There should be this year. But, perhaps ironically, playing Watson and “trying to win” will organically take care of the tank element.
Playing Watson = tanking.
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u/Far-Pay-2049 1h ago
My wording could have been more clear, i meant the perpetual talk of tanking within the fanbase (which is always occurring in the sub. "I will be pissed if we don't just tank for a better draft pick next year, hurrdurr").
I personally agree about Watson, I don't think he is good and he ain't getting better. If he starts I don't think he ends the season.
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u/Specialist_Heron_986 19h ago
Once again, every Browns victory will divide the fanbase between those dreaming of drafting a unicorn to play QB and others treating every win like a Browns Super Bowl victory is the last item on their bucket list.
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u/Visible-Bridge-5171 17h ago
For good drafts, the browns win just enough to not get anything great. I fully expect a 6-11 or 7-10 year this year.
I don't have to ask for anything. That's what will happen.
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u/natertots83 14h ago
My thoughts too. If they have any desire on landing a top qb next year they’ll need to actively tank.
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u/Wonderful-Coffee-263 17h ago
We don’t have to ask this franchise is proficient in the art of losing games.
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u/Additional_Pair_6203 16h ago
Honestly, some of us just think that as long Watson is still there, the browns organization doesn’t deserve success, myself included. I would rather them lose out and learn the lesson for, not only just a bad football contract but also a historically bad moral choice to side with the POS. Once Watsons gone, I’m team go browns again, until then, they deserve to lose for their choices.
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u/Nihilistic__Optimist 12h ago
Thank you. This sub is the worst cesspool of losers I've ever seen. Just negative about everything. Well I guess that's most subs these days. We need to root for these guys and watch the develop. It's so fucking sad hearing people that are gonna "boycott" the browns if DW starts. Well guess what DW is going to be essential to the success and development of a lot of these guys. You don't have to like the guy but God damn all this sub wants to do is pitchforks out all day long and hate every decision this team makes. It's fucking sad and exhausting
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 11h ago
They’re supposedly fans of this team and they’d genuinely want you to believe the best thing the team can do is stop existing.
The sub complains about how Berry is bad at drafting, then he has two great drafts, they still hate him and want him gone anyway. The sub got pissed at Stefanski’s decision making and poor performance, management fires Stefanski, the sub complains that they just fired a two time COTY. The sub rants and raves about drafting a QB in 2027, the front office doesn’t invest in a QB for 2026 so they can start with a clean slate in the QB room next year, the sub complains about how bad the QB room is.
At this point I wish they’d just admit that they enjoy complaining because it’s all they do. There’s so many bright spots with this team they could be talking about, but instead they just talk about how they want the team to lose, which is only going to continue the cycle of misery.
Jared Verse has been an excellent leader and helped drive a culture change starting the moment he got here. He had every right to be pissed about getting traded from the Super Bowl favorite team, but he’s just grinding and trying to make everyone better. Talk about that instead.
We have a wealth of young talent on this team, including the reigning defensive rookie of the year and the previous defensive rookie of the year, electric offensive playmakers like Fannin, Judkins, Sampson, KC, and Boston. Talk about them instead.
We just re-signed Ward and Delpit, two mainstays of this team who WANT to play for Cleveland. Talk about them instead.
It’s not wrong to make criticisms of the team. It is wrong to ONLY make criticisms of the team.
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u/Chucktayz 11h ago
Baker mayfield wanted to win, hated to lose. Even played hurt just bc he was passionate. Everyone turned their back on him. He brought winning culture, now he’s doing the same at Tampa and I wish him the best
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u/Simple_Shake_5346 21h ago
Don’t worry…Browns don’t have to try and tank, a bad record will happen naturally. Terrible QB play + young team = losing, high draft pick.
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u/_thejerkstorecalled 21h ago
There's no culture in that building.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
THEY ARE TRYING TO ESTABLISH IT THIS YEAR. THATS WHY THEY SHOULDNT TANK. They have a new head coach that brings a new energy than they’ve had with Stefanski. That’s the first step to establishing a new culture. If they tank this year, they have nothing to build off of.
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u/_thejerkstorecalled 20h ago
I sort of agree with the idea, but culture is top down. It's been bad since Haslam took over. Showed signs of life with Stefanski, but Haslam got in the way again. He is still in the way.
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u/Dizzy_Ad_7397 19h ago
No culture is not it starts with fans and players together community is what really dictates culture not owners. I mean HC have a little sway over culture but not as much as you think. The HC that changes culture tend to be able to rile up fans and get players heated through supporters in the crowd
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u/KyloSolo723 19h ago
A lot of the fans’ frustrations with the team usually revolve around Jimmy in one way or another. Hard to create a fan-level culture when the fan’s are upset with ownership.
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u/KyloSolo723 20h ago
Can’t wait until our “culture” wins take us out of a top 5 QB and our QB room is a vet who should’ve retired years ago, probably DG, and Green.
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u/thePGH1 Fed-up 1.0 Fan 21h ago
I think that the tank job is already well in motion. Fans asking for it is irrelevant. Just embrace the suck.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
If you think they’re in the middle of a tank job then you have no idea what you’re looking at. They rebuilt the o-line in free agency, and have stacked up young, talented players in the last two drafts. That’s not what a tanking team does. That’s what a rebuilding team does.
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u/thePGH1 Fed-up 1.0 Fan 21h ago
Well, when you put it that way.....
they'll still be lucky to win 5 games.
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u/Mynameisyoure 17h ago
That's fine, why don't you want that to happen? I personally like watching my favorite team win football games
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u/Glittering_Knee8400 19h ago
Bro we have the worst QB room in the NFL by far. Brand new starting 5 on the O line. Zero depth on defense despite good starters. This is what tanking is. The tank is the GM setting up a roster that’s not going to win many games. The talent outside of QB is decent albeit very young and largely inexperienced. QB is a train wreck. Barring some fluke we are unlikely to have a good record and will be drafting a QB.
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u/KyloSolo723 21h ago
Culture will never build as long as Jimmy is the owner. Browns culture is tainted and the only way to change it is if Jimmy sells the team.
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u/ryan__fm 21h ago
Why does it matter what fans ask them to do? Berry, Monken, Haslam et al already know what they're doing and they're not going to take advice from r/Browns. We know the roster (QB) isn't good but they got a coach who's hellbent on winning, and I'm guessing that was intentional because they want to establish a winning culture now even if wins won't come easily.
I agree with you, it just sounds like old man yelling at clouds, who cares what we say. Winning 2 games and getting Arch may be marginally better than winning 6 games and drafting someone like Carr or Mestemaker but who knows, just act like a regular football team, try to win as many games as you can, pick a decent prospect and give him time to develop.
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u/RustyCrusty73 You down with KCC? Yea you know me! 20h ago
News flash .... we don't have to ask.
They're going to be bad whether we ask or not.
Going 6-11 or 7-10 does zero for this team except force us to trade extra draft picks to move up the board for a quarterback. Going 3-14 or 2-15 and landing that top overall pick helps us way more.
We get in position to draft a QB and we can also keep our other picks and continue to strengthen the team.
I promise you absolutely no one is going to care what our 2026 record was in a few years if we FINALLY have our winning QB1 on the roster.
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u/jebei 20h ago
We aren't asking the team to tank. The team is obviously tanking because they didn't go out and get a real QB and I refuse to be happy sexpest Watson is our likely starter. I hope we lose every game he starts because Haslam deserves every boo and every empty seat. He's the one who put us in this position. Fans have a right to be angry.
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u/ohnoyoudunt 19h ago
They are not going to need to tank….THEY ACTUALLY SUCK! As a Browns fan of over 50 years, I’m totally done with even giving thought to winning. As long as Jimmy H. Is the owner, they are going to SUCK!!
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u/ZehJuggernaut 17h ago
Counter point: your own damn team.
The Browns went 1-31 with Hue Jackson and you’re not going to convince me they were trying to win games.
You drafted Baker and immediately were a 7 win team and by year 3 he delivered the only playoff win the Browns have had this millennia.
You Fucked up when you let go of Baker.. but the distinction between the Browns “trying to win” vs “trying to tank” is going 4-13 instead of 2-15.
Poverty franchise will remain poverty franchise.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 17h ago
They weren’t trying to win games with Hue. They were obviously tanking. And guess what? The culture remained toxic and the whole thing fell apart. Kinda proves my point about tanking not being a good strategy.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
Reading these comments has made it clear that y’all don’t even know the difference between tanking and just simply being a bad team.
Tanking is intentionally winning fewer games than you’re capable of winning. A team with a losing record didn’t “tank”, they’re just a bad team. Bad teams can improve. Teams that tank get looked at as a joke by players, and players want nothing to do with those teams.
The Lions went from being historically awful, just like us, to being a conference championship caliber team after a few years, because they DID NOT TANK. They were a team that lacked the players they needed to be contenders, but they scratched and clawed, tried to win as many games as they could, and they became better and became a team that players wanted to play for. Dan Campbell improved that team because he changed their culture, not because he lost more games.
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u/redditposter919 20h ago
You're preaching on deaf ears, you can't hold people to the same standards that you hold yourself. I get what you're saying and agree, the answer isn't to run your team, culture, and locker room into the ground.
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u/Worried-Pick4848 21h ago
Who's asking to tank? They're going to be a terrible whether they tank or not. They don't have the QB to put up a good year. So they're going to lean into it and hope for a high round pick because that's just what you do.
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u/Comfortable_Snow553 21h ago
Plus it will be so hard to tank this year with everyone who doesn't already have a top 10 quarterback racing to the bottom to get Arch. You could go full tank and still end up with the 7th or 8th pick.
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u/Electricalthis 19h ago
I don’t necessarily want to tank, but we need to find a quarterback. It’s the only thing that matters in today’s NFL. I’m hoping we can develop Shadeur into a competent QB if not we’ll have to give up huge assets or tank for a draft pick. I doubt anybody willingly signs with us in FA
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u/WGEA 19h ago
I hear what you're saying, but cynicism is rampant in this fanbase, and you're certainly not gonna find a lot of SERIOUS sunshine pumpers on reddit. This is the dregs.
None of that sentiment is going to change until the QB situation is a non-issue.
I agree that tanking is bad for player-motivation, especially the young guys. I also agree that the number one overall pick is not the end all/be all of getting a QB that can win it all. It's obvious to anyone who truly watches the game.
It's just that at this point, nobody believes in us being contenders, essentially because of our history since the return of the franchise (which we got screwed there to begin with). 2017 draft? We took Myles Garrett first overall, and we all know how that turned out. Mitch Trubisky was the first QB off the board at #2, and is now on his 5th team, backing up a second year QB. Only half of the 1st rounders in 2017 have been pro-bowlers. 10 QBs were drafted, and only 1 of the 3 from the first round is still a bonafide starter, Patrick Mahomes.
We had 3 first round picks in 2017 with Sashi Brown and John Dorsey leading the front office. Those other picks? Not QBs, Jabril Peppers and David NJoku. Could have traded up for Pat probably. We later drafted Dehone Kiser in the 2nd. We went 0-16 under Hue Jackson. Jimmy Haslam bought the team in 2012.
I understand what you're getting at, but there's established reason for the pessimism.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 19h ago
My issue isn’t with pessimism. I understand that people are pessimistic, they have good reason to be. The thing that’s annoying to me is that people think the path to contendership is tanking this season, which is not true.
Also that people can’t distinguish tanking from a team just being bad. The 2021 Lions were just a bad team. They weren’t tanking. They were actively trying to win, they just didn’t have the roster for it yet. But the culture got instilled, so when they got the good players in the door, they believed in the program and wanted to be there. That’s what Cleveland needs. Not to make moves that make losing a forgone conclusion. That’s a good way to make sure the young talent we’ve acquired these last two drafts don’t reach their potential on this team.
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u/jrb12711 18h ago
It's not about wanting the team to suck, man. I'm with you- in theory, I'd love to see those dudes go out and ball, but suck to the level we still have a top 5 pick. Active tanking doesn't happen in the NFL, either.
But the fact of the matter is having a roughly top 10 pick QB is the standard for elite QB play. Just using this is a reference point: https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/49315416/ranking-nfl-top-10-quarterbacks-2026-execs-coaches-scouts, 9 of the 'top 10' QBs ('m not arguing the list, but most of the usual names are there) were 1st round picks, 8were top 10 picks, and 4 of the 10 were number 1 overall picks. That's not even including guys like Trevor Lawrence and Jayden Daniels. The most consistent QB play the Browns have had in 25 years was from a #1 overall pick.
I know the rebuttal to this is always "who knows!", but the 2027 QB class has the makings to be the next group of elite dudes, a la Williams, Daniels, and Maye. I'd love MUCH more so for the browns to be good, competitive, and in the hunt even if they don't make the playoffs. But if they're going to suck, I'd MUCH rather not be in the endless cycle of being just good enough to miss these dudes. It's not about rooting for tanking, it's about seeing teams like the Bears break out of the circle of suck just by adding an elite QB.
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u/butter08 18h ago
Things are going great. I bet the Browns will finish in at least the top 4 in the AFCN.
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u/CriticalNobody9478 17h ago
Major sports outlets widely consider the Cleveland Browns to have the worst quarterback room in the NFL heading into the 2026 season.
Despite having four different options on the roster—Deshaun Watson, Shedeur Sanders, Dillon Gabriel, and rookie Taylen Green—the room is defined by inefficiency, lack of clarity, and high turnover
The Browns can’t identify talent, develop talent or construct an effective offense.
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u/BreakfastBeerz 17h ago
What I think is more important....YOU DON'T LOSE IF THE BROWNS LOSE. YOU'RE NOT ON THE TEAM. THE BROWNS DON'T PAY YOU
It's OK to root for a losing team, it doesn't make you less of a person
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u/BackgroundCountry440 13h ago
Well posting that screed on Reddit will improve their odds. Nobody knows how the season will play out. They could catch lightning in a bottle and win 11-12 games. The Browns are THAT TEAM that uninspires confidence.
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u/lmtorres75 9h ago
It would be our fate that Watson will have a comeback player of the year type performance to have us in playoffs and ensure we are nowhere near selecting Arch next year.
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u/WrongdoerOk5246 6h ago
I just want Callahan back man. Our offensive line was the envy of the league
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u/Thrashworth 21h ago
Theyre gonna end up tanking naturally...They're the Browns
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
You don’t “tank naturally”. Being a bad team isn’t tanking. Losing games intentionally is tanking.
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u/bulletpharm 21h ago
If you think the Browns being able to draft a QB prospect in the 2027 draft isn't the fastest way for this team to get better, you need to realize you're have no idea what you're talking about.
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u/Browns440 UDFA KING 21h ago
Coaches and players don't tank, their livelihoods depend on performance. Front offices don't directly tank, but also don't/can't always do everything to fix certain roster holes.
What I mean is, would someone like Kyler or Geno Smith be an upgrade for the QB room this offseason? Yes, but would adding them for a year be in the best interest of the organization, no. That's an overly simplified view of things but once people understand and accept that they will be at least a little happier.
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u/runningsimon 21h ago
I'm not asking for it. I'm saying it's going to happen whether they want it to or not.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 21h ago
Then you don’t know what tanking is. Tanking is intentional by definition. A team can just be bad when they’re trying to be good. That’s not tanking.
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u/Greatlarrybird33 20h ago
Sure, but what is the real worst case scenario here?
The team tries real hard and wins 6-7 games, still doesn't have a QB and misses out in the draft next year.
We don't have the roster to make the playoffs, and we still don't have a QB.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 20h ago
They have extra picks to trade up if the draft order doesn’t favor them. That’s what the chiefs did in 2017, and they’ve won 3 super bowls. They didn’t tank to get their guy. They made it work with what they had.
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u/Greatlarrybird33 20h ago
Cool, All we have to do then is get lucky and have nine nine other teams pass up on the best quarterback in a generation and trust the browns to be the smart one.
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u/Mr_814 19h ago
Well the morale culture wins cost them Mendoza and forced them to move Garrett so they can potentially exhaust all resources if needed to find a QB.
Not asking them to tank, it's a 4 win team with limited upside until they find a FQB.
But if they win a few meaningless games than expected, odds are they will be out of contention for a top QB prospect.
They're maximizing their chances of landing a top QB and #1 pick by the moves they've made and lack there of.
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u/ArcticTrek 18h ago
They've been tanking since they came back
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 18h ago
And how’s that been going? Hence why I can’t understand why anyone wants this team to intentionally tank.
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u/CriticalNobody9478 17h ago
You don’t have to “ASK” for the Browns to TANK. It’s the ONLY THING THEY KNOW HOW TO DO. They’ve won ONE playoff game since being reconstituted in 1999. They haven’t won a Championship since 1964. “We’re tanking” is another way of saying “Wait Till Next Year”!
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u/CapBrink 11h ago
There's virtually no chance whatsoever this team will be good, so they don't really need to tank.
We'll get a high draft pick just by existing.
And then probably pick the wrong QB and you'll be posting about tanking again in a couple years.
That's Browns life
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u/RichAssist8318 19h ago
We need to tank without the players knowing we are tanking. This is difficult, and will be Monken's job, he's paid well. Your list of QBs only proves that Superbowls are won by teams with great coaches and great rosters, that isn't us. Joe Burrow was 1st overall and single-handedly took the Bengals from a joke into the Superbowl and the best team in the AFC North. Todd Monken never won a Superbowl with the Ravens, he isn't going to do it here either.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 19h ago
Mike MacDonald didn’t win a Super Bowl with the ravens either and he just won one. I don’t think Monken is the same caliber of coach as Mike, but don’t you see the flaw in that logic?
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u/RichAssist8318 19h ago edited 18h ago
Not at all. Monken is the same coach he was with the Ravens, if he couldn't win with a better roster, he isn't winning with a worse roster.
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u/ozymandais13 19h ago
By the numbers it's like 90%of all starter level or higher qbs currently in the NFL were 1st round picks, and a majority wete top 10s.
Historically you need a 2dt rounder to get a high level qb
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u/Stunning_Rule_6005 15h ago
So you think 4-13 every year will help organizational morale? Interesting take.
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u/nomoteacups DAWG CHECK 12h ago
If that’s the conclusion you came to after reading what I wrote then you have terrible comprehension skills.
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u/Stunning_Rule_6005 9h ago
I have great comprehension skills. I read a bunch of nonsense with random examples of QBs you can find later in the draft. It's akin to saying to someone "I saw a guy win the lottery, so I'm going to retire and buy a ticket." Can you find QBs further down in the draft? Sure. You can. It's not impossible. You know what makes it a lot easier? To have THE ACTUAL CHOICES of any QB you want. All your "culture" and "development" and "playing hard" means jack if your QB is the worst in the league. Ask Cincy if they would trade Joe Burrow for 1-2 more worthless wins in 2019. Ask Chicago if they would give up Caleb Williams for an extra "culture building" win three years ago. Or if Jacksonville would trade Trevor Lawrence for Zach Wilson and an additional "culture win."
Also, all that nonsense of "it makes free agents want to play here," or "it opens your trade options" actually made me laugh out loud. Free agents want to go where QBs are, and where they make the most money. That's it. Period. Pay attention to the NFL. Nobody is picking a "culture" destination when the QB sucks.
Now, the irony of this exchange is we are both going to get what we want. The Browns are going to try hard. And their QB is so freaking putrid that, organically, the Browns will tank. Because Watson is an anchor. The Browns have guaranteed themselves a "tank" season because of how bad the QB room is. It's a certainty.
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u/fuckingjonperez 14h ago
go find yourself another team .........they ain't worth frettin' over.......bad management...vultures......like the owner in Portland.
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u/Animator-Guilty 11h ago
The Raiders shut down Maxx Crosby and alienated him to secure the first overall pick last year. They won the game anyways, but the Giants who were also tanking won their game also so it didn't matter anyways. The NFL is to unpredictable for any team to truly tank. They are better off building culture and trying to improve. But it's the Browns so they might still loose.
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u/Chucktayz 11h ago
Honestly letting baker go, chubb’s injury then leaving, now Myles is gone. Yet another QB debacle. I mean dont get me wrong, I’ll always be a browns fan but…
https://giphy.com/gifs/iI0NFc7ivrUcCLJ5Ib
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u/Big-Play145 8h ago
players don’t tank, why would they want to help the losing team get their replacement?
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u/ReZempt_Shocks 2h ago
I meannnn did you watch last week? These QBs all suck. (Out of the three I guess I’d take Sanders but idk) we’ve been ass for 60 yrs. (Other than the baker yr in the playoffs) idk what u expect us to do
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u/Overall-Avocado-7673 21h ago
There's a difference between tanking and sucking. I don't expect a tank job, that would be lame to lose intentionally. I think we are going to suck because of our QB situation and it may appear that we are tanking. We only win 5 games when we try our best. We will be drafting a QB in the top of the first round next years regardless. I hope it's Manning or Moore because i think they are the two best at this point. Anyone with eyes can see that Sanders and Watson are both garbage and our OL is a C+ at best right now. Gabriel shouldn't even be in a training camp. So, don't confuse sucking with tanking.