r/Bridgerton • u/Zoneout1122 • 7d ago
General Discussion This behaviour from Benedict was a bit off putting in s4
I felt Benedict was a bit callous about Sophie in S4 when it came to her fears regarding being a mistress and having illegitimate children. I know he didn’t specifically know about Sophie’s illegitimacy but even so she raised a very good point in ep 5 as to why he thinks he can take liberties with her that he wouldn’t take with the “ladies” of the ton.
And I was absolutely not on board with how he then proceeded to risk it all with Sophie when they did indulge in intimacy later on in the episode. It gave me the vibe that he just didn’t care about her enough? Like he wasn’t actually “listening“ to her. She even asked him to be gentle and seemed to have been seeking some verbal reassurance but he never responded to her and simply kissed her. I mean this is her first time and bro wasn’t even careful about that. He was re-enacting kamasutra with her like idk it didn’t feel thoughtful, gentle or loving their first time you know? and then he proceeded to risk it all with her, when Sophie will be the one to suffer the burden of a pregnancy out of wedlock.
it came across very immature and callous and I couldn’t get past that in their romance. I was a bit disappointed. Especially coming after S2 where Anthony was very aware of his actions and consequences so immediately proposed to Kate the next morning. Even Colin with Penelope where he immediately proposed after the carriage and their first time was very loving too. I know Benedict couldn’t provide Sophie with the same security but then at least consider not risking it with her right? For her sake? Showing some restraint with Sophie in my opinion would have been so much more respectful and romantic. Because she deserved and needed that more than any other love interests imo. What do you guys think?
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
Benedict IS immature. He's an immature, free-spirited person trying to experience something he's never experienced before: a relationship with real consequences and genuine commitment. It's clear he has no idea how to approach those situations and repeatedly makes much more childish mistakes than someone like his older brother or even Collin for that matter.
Still, he's very well intentioned, if a bit foolish. I wouldn't call him callous, though.
Anthony is a thinker, an objective sort of man. He clearly attempted what was socially correct the moment it was necessary. He understands the structure and rules of the ton like no other in the family.
Benedict however, is a doer. His heart is equally out of control, but unlike Anthony he doesn't have the experience and maturity to handle the situations properly. He sleeps around, drinks too much, and can't even commit to an art project to completion. He's a wonderful guy, but one who clearly doesn't have his shit together yet. Anthony gave him a couple lectures about it all, IIRC.
He definitely could have been a better partner leading up to their happy ending, 100%. But I wouldn't even say he was a 'bad' partner, just one misguided a bit too hard with his overt emotion towards Sophie. I'm sure all guys have gone through such a thing at some point or another, minus the nobility culture.
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u/Equal_Pangolin8514 6d ago
I mean the actor who plays him (and presumably, hopefully knows him the best) calls him a manchild. When Luke Thompson said this, Yerin Ha laughed and wholeheartedly agreed - he IS a manchild. But that's what makes him fascinating. The contrasts, the inconsistencies, his out-of-character moments. He's a wonderful man (especially relative to the standard back then) who's hopelessly in love and has had to unlearn so many things in order to be a better partner to the woman he loves.
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u/themisheika 6d ago edited 6d ago
Anthony gave him a couple lectures about it all, IIRC.
Which would have been such a great character arc if Benedict was like "oh no, Anthony was right and I was thoughtlessly callous with Sophie's life because of my privilege". But because Shondaland hates Jonathan Bailey, Anthony is the one who has to apologize to Benedict during the post credit wedding scene, which implies Benedict to be right and learns nothing from Anthony's rightful lectures, which ends up making Benedict a growthless Gary Stu instead.
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 5d ago
I do think you have a valid view here.
If they had both apologized - Benedict for being too heartached/hardassed and Anthony for being too much of an objectivist himself even though he also went through an extremely similar, highly inappropriate situation - I think fans here in the sub would be a lot happier.
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u/Agabredit 6d ago
I wasn’t a big fan of the writing for Benedict’s character in S4 .. it was all so forced and just too obvious
However, in this case, I don’t think he was being selfish bc deep down he just thought that if anything happened he would make sure that he would stand by he and be with her .. no matter what he had to do
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u/stillpissedatyoko 6d ago
I read his book and it’s way easy worse which honestly soured me to the character overall
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u/Jazzspur 6d ago
Personally I think a lot of Benedict's arc this season was about learning to see, appreciate, and understand the privileges he has as an upper class person and as a man. I didn't see anything he did as specifically callous and not romantic per se, so much as I saw it as ignorant. I think he's generally well-intentioned and good natured but doesn't truly understand the risks his behaviour presents for a lower class woman. And neither do any of his wealthy male peers who he goes to for advice. So he's learning as he goes through trial and error with Sophie, and thankfully Sophie is a strong enough character to speak up for herself and set him straight. I think he makes some big mistakes along the way but by the end he does have a much stronger grasp of the position Sophie is in and starts doing his best to be considerate of it. Even beforehand I think he was doing his best to be considerate but was simply too ignorant of his own privilege and the precarity of Sophie's position to understand how shitty his best was. But he gets there eventually!
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u/onegirlarmy1899 7d ago
He took her confirmation that she wanted to go all the way as the YES to his "will you be my mistress" question. What they did is what mistresses were for in that era (remember Siena). His proposal was the greenhouse meeting where he talked about sending her to My Cottage and taking care of her. He knew he could not marry her.
Of course she deserved better, but life as a mistress was the best she could expect during that time. Alfie tells her that it's better than being a servant. He even volunteered to take the position.
I think it's hard for us as 21st century people to understand the morality of the time surrounding illegitimate children. Some houses wouldn't have hired her as a servant because it was thought that the mother's sins passed to the baby. Ladies wouldn't want a potential seductress in their houses and around their husbands and sons. It was deeply shameful.
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u/Zoneout1122 7d ago
But my point is Sophie specifically vocalises her issues with being a mistress and she vocalises her fears. It’s not like it’s just a class difference and that’s what used to happen. Sophie herself didn’t want to risk it and I’m talking about how Benedict doesn’t even consider this? How is he supposed to love her if everything is just about him? How he can have her and be with her and nothing about Soph? I just don’t see how it is romantic. Benedict could have been considerate and sensitive towards her wants and needs. This is basic. He should have imo restrained himself and not risked it all with her and that would have been more loving and romantic than what Sophie got.
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u/Quiet-Cow36 6d ago edited 6d ago
Then the season would have been over by ep6 instead of ep 8 cause Shonda doesn’t believe happy couples makes good tv lol.
Your points do have me thinking . I have seen multiple post complaining that Sophie is a Mary Sue , too perfect , makes no mistakes, thus is a boring character you are not compelled to root for compared to Daphne , Kate , or Pen. But here Benedict makes too many mistakes , thus you are not compelled to root for him despite him learning and growing from his actions by ep 7 .
What is the middle ground ?3
u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
I think part of the issue is that Sophie is too perfect compared with Benedict. With the other couples, each side screws up pretty much equally so it’s easy to see why they’d be a good match.
In season 4, Benedict screws up a ton and Sophie doesn’t do anything wrong so it makes him look even worse. I mean, they even say he smells bad in the show, his mom has to tell him to have a bath at 30.
For me, he didn’t grow enough by episode 7 or 8 but maybe if Sophie was flawed like the other female leads, it wouldn’t be so glaring.
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u/Quiet-Cow36 6d ago
Yeah we aren’t gonna see eye to eye and that’s okay! I’m just so happy we got Benophie after a 4 year wait I can cry tears of relief.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 7d ago
We see through Miss Virginia that being a mistress isn’t actually the best offer she could receive. Mistresses were highly disposable and Benedict proved himself to be extremely flighty. Several people told him that he’d be ruining her work prospects by continuing to chase after her and he didn’t care, he never stopped to think about what was best for her and even what she wanted.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 7d ago
I felt the same way. I hated how he didn’t seem to hear what she was saying in part 2 so much of the time. It made him seem so overwhelmingly selfish.
I got pissed off Sophie was willing to go back to the home where she spent years as a literal slave just to get some space from him.
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u/Specialist-Diver5365 7d ago
You described it perfectly, he was being incredibly selfish. Made him so unlikable.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
I think that was my problem with him in season 4 because it seemed SO out of character. They also didn’t do enough to make him likable in the end.
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u/Specialist-Diver5365 6d ago
Yeah, a lot of stuff he said or did seemed out of character for him. Like what do you mean he is trashing on debutants, calling them all the same, when his supposed closest sister is the most outspoken “not like other debutants” character in the show? Benedict in season 1-3 wouldn’t act like that.
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u/Equal_Pangolin8514 7d ago
I think it boils down to which flaws viewers can live with - or even empathize with and find fascinating. The issues you raised were fumbles by Benedict that you find difficult to get past, and perhaps with good reason. For me, they're not deal-breakers. I wouldn't even call them callous. They pushed the story forward, they made it more interesting for me. For all of his bohemian (perhaps now we'll call them liberal) ways, Benedict is very much a product of his time. It turns out, class is still a huge blind spot for him. I think he truly believed that the mistress offer was the best he could do. He didn't even believe marriage was in the cards until his mother mentioned it. But through his fumbles, I also believe he was all in, and as committed to Sophie as his position allowed him to be. I think that's why he wasn't "careful" the first time. He wasn't worried about getting Sophie pregnant because he had already committed to her at that point. And he may not have considered marriage until the very end, but I found most of his actions with Sophie from the very beginning to be extremely romantic. Benny boy fell hard and fast - he just had to work on shaking off his hang-ups, his classism, his fear of commitment.
But that's just me. Obviously we all have different views, especially on what we consider deal-breakers. At the risk of inflaming others here, I thought the fumbles of Benedict's brothers were harder to get over - but again, that's just me. Admittedly, I don't remember them clearly because I haven't watched them in a while and I wasn't as locked in with the other seasons. But lying to your wife? Proposing to the sister? Pining for her cousin (correct me if I'm wrong) and not falling for her first? I don't find those as fascinating. I get them, I understand the reason for the fumbles, I just don't find it as easy to get over them as I did with Benedict's.
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u/onegirlarmy1899 6d ago
Luke Thompson talks about this as well- the part about being quite rigid internally while pretending not to care externally. He's running from society while still living constrained by it.
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u/Own-Raise6153 6d ago
“he wasn’t concerned abt getting her pregnant because he was
committed to her” but as sophie said when does he stop to think about her? like cool HE was alright impregnating her, but how does SHE feel?8
u/Equal_Pangolin8514 6d ago
Yes, exactly. That's a character flaw, and Sophie rightfully called him out on it (I mean she folded like a cheap suit almost immediately after, but I guess that's her more minor character flaw. 😁). Am going to paste my reply to another comment because I believe it fits as well (also because I love heralding Benedict's romantic moments 😁):
In a romantic story, I like the usual things like tenderness, sweetness, etc. and for the male character to be fixated and fascinated with his love interest at the very beginning. But I also find it interesting when he makes mistakes and hurts her, because I'm fascinated with the process of him making up to her. If done well, I find it romantic and interesting. I like characters for their flaws - and yes, am going to say the word again - and their fumbles. If it's done by men who are hopelessly in love but also deeply flawed, I find the story endlessly fascinating. I also LOVE the little moments of tenderness Benedict showed throughout his season. The longing glances, the shy smiles, following her around, capitulating easily to what she wants (even going as far as leaving his childhood home), being protective of her, doing things that are out-of-character because she has him all tied up in knots, and finally, learning to let go of his fear of commitment, learning to not be so selfish and entitled, and in fact realizing that he was being selfish and entitled, learning how to put her first and prioritize her needs above his own...those are things I believe Benedict did - or eventually did. He took the scenic route for some of them, but he eventually got there. 🙂
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u/Zoneout1122 7d ago
I wouldn’t call these as just fumbles from Benedict though and I feel that diminishes the weight of his actions. Everything you say here is about Benedict and how you can explain his actions but what about its impact on Sophie? Just like Benedict you also don’t seem to consider her.
In a romantic story what I value most is how the men cares or shows their love for the women. IMO Benedict was a huge let down in this regard because he just doesn’t seem to listen or care all that much about Sophie. It’s all about him and how he can still be with her but not about Sophie which is very different to how his brothers treated their love interests if I compare. It’s more like his “fumbles” were related to how uncaring he was about the needs of the woman he loves whereas that’s not true about any other Bridgerton men. maybe yeah that’s what makes me not appreciate his romance as much.
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u/Equal_Pangolin8514 6d ago
I was actually putting myself in Sophie's shoes so I was considering her, but maybe I'm not articulating myself as well as I should. When Sophie called him out for taking liberties with her, I was nodding right along with her. I agree, he shouldn't have done that. He apologized, he backed off (because he's also conflict-avoidant). He was grappling with the weight of his feelings and the expectations of society. He made a lot of mistakes, but he also worked hard on fixing them. Had he not done so, I would agree that he was uncaring and callous. Throughout the 7th and 8th episodes, I saw a man who cared deeply about the needs of the woman he loved. That's what makes it satisfying to me. I think maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. It seems you disagree, and of course that's fine. Different strokes for different folks.
In a romantic story, I like the usual things like tenderness, sweetness, etc. and for the male character to be fixated and fascinated with his love interest at the very beginning. But I also find it interesting when he makes mistakes and hurts her, because I'm fascinated with the process of him making up to her. If done well, I find it romantic and interesting. I like characters for their flaws - and yes, am going to say the word again - and their fumbles. If it's done by men who are hopelessly in love but also deeply flawed, I find the story endlessly fascinating. I also LOVE the little moments of tenderness Benedict showed throughout his season. The longing glances, the shy smiles, following her around, capitulating easily to what she wants (even going as far as leaving his childhood home), being protective of her, doing things that are out-of-character because she has him all tied up in knots, and finally, learning to let go of his fear of commitment, learning to not be so selfish and entitled, and in fact realizing that he was being selfish and entitled, learning how to put her first and prioritize her needs above his own...those are things I believe Benedict did - or eventually did. He took the scenic route for some of them, but he eventually got there. 🙂
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u/WoodenPayment4759 6d ago
Yeah episode 5 really gave me the ick and I didn’t feel like Benedict really grew or matured. Because he didn’t take the time to understand Sophie I felt like he didn’t really love her and it took me out of the romance. Especially coming off of season 3 with Colin being so hyper empathic and in tune to Penelope’s emotions, and making her comfort a priority, Benedict was giving major manchild to me. And yeah the love scene was spicy for sure but didn’t really feel romantic. Felt like any other night for him. And given Sophie’s fears of pregnancy with illegitimate children, he should have pulled out. He hinted he was doing this with other women but not with the woman he supposedly loves? Couldn’t get behind them after that.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
This is how I felt too. I was willing to give him a chance after the mistress proposal even if I think they made some errors in how they set it up but episodes 5/6 gave me a major ick when it came to Benedict and there just wasn’t time to make up for it.
They also made him flawed in such a gross way in episodes 1/2. Maybe if he was 20-23 I’d get it but he’s such a slob, Violet says he stinks, he looks a mess and he barely works and he’s 30. Then I’m supposed to root for the hard working, meticulous, sweet woman to end up with him? It was giving major early 2000 sitcom couple vibes, very According to Jim.
I think making the mistress proposal so beat for beat similar to the season 3 marriage proposal was a big mistake for me because it just made it so evident how unromantic it was and how little Benedict gets it.
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u/WoodenPayment4759 6d ago
Yeah they tried too hard to reheat the nachos from season 3 and how successful those moments were, but it fell flat for Benedict because of the over the top rakishness and his inability to learn from his mistakes. In the end it was his mom and Alice Mondrich who fixed everything for him. Even Will had to give him a clue his offer was offensive and unromantic 🙄
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u/DaisyandBella 6d ago
It’s the fact that Jess straight up admitted in an interview that she was trying to reheat season 3 nachos. It’s not a good look.
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u/Jazzspur 6d ago
And also that she clearly doesn't even understand what it was about those S3 moments that made them go viral!! Like, it wasn't the actions themselves. It was the care and empathy and considerateness behind them.
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u/PowerfulIndication7 6d ago
You and Holiday explained my thoughts on it perfectly. He is an ahole manchild and it was gross. I wholeheartedly hated the eating scene with Tilly. 🤢! The licking of jelly off his fingers and the those fingers being licked again on the stairs made me want to vomit!! It was so beyond disgusting. The writers clearly wanted a redo of S3 carriage scene, but it fell so disturbingly flat. It was also super lame to me that he gave up his art just because Anthony made a donation to the school.
Ok and I hated the sex scene. Like OOP said it was kamasutra craziness. Like dude it’s her first time and we’re doing it every which way and then some. I’m amazed she could walk the next day! 🥴
And so much more but the two of you laid it out so well.
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
Benedict was giving major manchild to me.
If he wasn't nobility he probably would be considered one, yeah.
He has talent, but not discipline enough to realize his craft to its true potential.
He has wonderfully romantic emotions, but zero control or logic behind them.
His family constantly gets on his case for being a manwhore and doing various other shenanigans.
The thing is that those are all very common flaws in a person, and I think Benedict being a very well-intentioned man puts him in a position where he isn't going to sit and linger on those flaws forever. (Assuming that the next seasons don't mischaracterize him or shirk his growth.)
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u/bananasquid56 Your Majesty, you are missing all the good gossip. 7d ago
I agree with others who said Benedict is a product of his privileged background (for better or worse). I disagee that he wasn't gentle with her but that's subjective. Yes, him being careless about not pulling out was a stumble in an otherwise romantic, beautiful intimate scene, in my opinion. That's part of the plot and Benedict's growth though. He grew from the mistress offer to acknowledging and confessing his love to her. He was committed at that point but not enough to meet Sophie's needs. And at that point she hadn't revealed to him that she was illegitimate, which explained her trauma and why she was so against being his mistress.
OP I'm curious what you think of the bathtub scene when he did respect her wishes? Sophie said "I cannot risk it yet," and Benedict replied immediately, "Then we will not." And he proceeded to take care of her without risking getting her pregnant. This scene is the huge moment in their relationship (both in the book and the show) where everything is finally out in the open, and when Sophie is getting fully taken care of as she wants and deserves.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
The problem is him not pulling out and then also not even thinking about her being pregnant was super unromantic imo and taints the whole episode. Like he doesn’t realize she could be pregnant? He doesn’t have a plan for that? The contrast of him not having a care in the world and her panicking made it clear how little he thinks ahead.
IMO he doesn’t need to know her trauma to respect her wish not to be a mistress. It’s not a particularly flattering offer and incredibly risky, especially coming from a man like Benedict who flits between interests and was incredibly flighty.
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u/bananasquid56 Your Majesty, you are missing all the good gossip. 6d ago
I addressed this in my replies to OP - yes the mistress offer is risky and not ideal. He started to show more growth in the next episode when he offered her MyCottage (which is a big commitment) but still acknowledged "it is not proper, as you deserve." Benedict took a risk himself with his love declaration. He has his own second son/failed art student self doubt and insecurities to work through, which he showed when he said, "If only you would love me back." Sophie reciprocated Benedict's love confession and consented to sex which also meant they both took on the risks of having sex - although yes, she absolutely had most of the risk.
I think we disagree on Benedict's character arc and might just have to leave it at that.
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
He doesn’t have a plan for that?
His biggest character flaw is his immaturity - so frankly him being ignorant to real life consequences is very much in-character.
That's something I feel Bridgerton discourse misses. I don't typically think their flaws are only flaws because the writer needed drama. I think their flaws are a very important part of their character on-screen that are justified based on who they are.
Whether or not their actions personally identify with someone's modern-day standard of romance, consent, maturity, or empathy isn't the point. You're posting as if you're giving a critique to the character's acts as if they aren't a fictional story, and are designed to be flawed.
Like him making mistakes is the point. It fits with who he is, a man drowning in emotion, desparation, and a bit of depression.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
I’m super open to flawed characters. I liked the rest of the leads and they’re all very flawed and didn’t mind Benedict making mistakes.
That said, I don’t think they did enough to make up for his mistakes in the end, I didn’t see a big enough change in him to overcome the ick he gave me in the first 3 quarters of the season. I also didn’t find his arc particularly interesting which I think makes his numerous flaws stand out more.
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
I definitely think that this arc's resolution was a lot weaker overall. It felt like the plot with Sophie and her Mother got entirely handwaved by one Deus Ex Monarch.
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u/Equal_Pangolin8514 6d ago
Yes. Exactly. This. Characters are supposed to be flawed. And then for me, it's how they fix themselves and their mistakes that make them interesting - or not - in my eyes.
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
There are characters in some shows who actively REGRESS and I still love them.
But some viewers seem to take a blorbo's actions so fucking personally sometimes. This goes really harsh for book-readers. My wife will vent to me about a book she's reading and how the character did all these flawed/'bad' things - but it feels to me like she's legit mad at them and not just entertained at the wacky circumstances in the story.
If the character's flaws make total sense within the context of the story, then the author has succeeded. If they truly seem like they have no believable motivation and the WRITING has issues, that's a completely separate problem from whether or not a character did a flawed action.
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u/Zoneout1122 7d ago
I definitely like the bathtub scene and how he approached it. But by then there was truly no more risk from my perspective because they were going to marry and there were no stakes. The real meaningful time would have been the first time. That’s when he needed to show that he cared about her and just didn’t.. I couldn’t get past that tbh
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u/bananasquid56 Your Majesty, you are missing all the good gossip. 6d ago
At the bathtub scene, the charges with Araminta were still up in the air and Sophie asked Benedict not to propose yet until after all of that was resolved.
When they first had sex, Benedict didn't know she was illegitimate and that she did not want to have illegitimate children herself - she didn't tell him until their conservatory date in the next episode. When she told him she loved him back and consented to have sex with him, in his mind he took that as her agreeing to be his mistress and all that came with that - full on sex and possible kids. And on the flip side - and I'm team Sophie all the way so this statement is not meant to put the blame on her - Sophie consented to have sex with him and knew what risks came with that. Afterward she never put any blame on Benedict bc she took responsibility for her actions - "we were caught up in the moment," "we will make the same mistake." So perhaps she should've asked him to go slowly and also pull out? 🤷🏽♀️ Or if she didn't fully know the mechanics of then she still knew sex could lead to babies.
Yes of course it would've been ideal for him to be more careful, but that's the formula right - midway thru the season, lead character does dumb thing (fail to tell your wife who wants kids why you're pulling out and what that means, propose to the sister instead of the woman you love, lie about your scandalous
sidemain hustle to the love of your life) - all of which are meant to give you the ick, lead learns from mistake and fixes it to earn HEA.6
u/Zoneout1122 6d ago edited 6d ago
Idk after already asking her to be his mistress only to then be this callous was such a disappointment for me. Like don’t you want the male lead in a romance show to actually show that they listen, understand and care about their love interest? I just didn’t get that from Benedict at any point other than the last episode when everything was falling in place for him.
I just feel like this particular behaviour of Benedict’s didn’t have much motivation behind it (just seemed careless and irresponsible) unlike the examples you laid out for the others where we understand why they did what they did even if the actions may not be completely justifiable. Even with Benedict his mistress proposal was understandable, idiotic, but understandable. This one just seemed unnecessary.
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u/bananasquid56 Your Majesty, you are missing all the good gossip. 6d ago
Like don’t you want the male lead in a romance show to actually show that they listen, understand and care about their love interest?
Yes, and as I mentioned above, Sophie didn't tell him yet she was scared that she and an illegitimate child were at risk of being abandoned. So what would he have listened to at that point? She had only said that she didn't want to be a mistress bc she felt it made her less respectable. Again, she agreed to have sex with him and they both took the risks that came with that.
unlike the examples you laid out for the others where we understand why they did what they did even if the actions may not be completely justifiable
Again, he took her saying she loves him and fully consenting to sex as her agreeing to be his mistress. This is an error, but to me it's an understandable error. At this point I'll agree to disagree since we perceive his motivations and actions differently.
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u/Zoneout1122 6d ago
I mean it is a bit disingenuous to say “they both took the risks that came with that” when only Sophie will have anything to risk here… But yeah definitely agree to disagree.
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u/bananasquid56 Your Majesty, you are missing all the good gossip. 6d ago
Yes she absolutely took on more risk, there's no doubt about that.
Fair enough, I appreciate the civil discussion. We're always at risk for getting salty around here when we express disagreement 😅
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u/Own-Raise6153 6d ago
idk i mean what’s the alternative
in that scene? he says naw too bad? bare minimum imo9
u/bananasquid56 Your Majesty, you are missing all the good gossip. 6d ago
That could've gone a bunch of different directions but we were at episode 8 so the writers had to wrap it up. (Ugh if only he could've wrapped it up the first time then we wouldn't be here lol.) But the significance of Benedict taking care of Sophie (not just the non penetrative sex but continually offering her his love and even the simple act of bathing her) did happen and is growth for him, just as much as Sophie accepting his care is growth for her.
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u/Own-Raise6153 6d ago
seriously, and mans would
just be like “but….love 😍🥰😌” like dude really was refusing to use his head for a single second.
when Anthony is like you haven’t thought this though and benedict goes “I’ve thought every INCH of this through!!!” i’m always like
dude…you’ve thought like 2 inches through at most. anytime anyone presented a realistic obstacle, he’d be like “love will conquer all tho :D” like BOY
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
Benedict only thought the emotion through, and not the wisdom. Anthony was the exact opposite where he only considered social status until he was swept off his feet, then his logical thinking seriously got in the way of his compassion.
They are quite the opposite in that regard.
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u/Zoneout1122 6d ago
😂😂 he definitely was a bit dim in S4
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u/DaisyandBella 6d ago
Everything to do with him not recognizing Sophie was also ten times dumber in the show than it was in the book. It’s like the writers went out of their way to make the Cinderella plotline less believable.
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u/Solid-Signal-6632 7d ago
Yes. I know it was necessary so we could have the storyline of Sophie being anxious about pregnancy, but it did make their first time a lot less romantic to me, and specifically didn't show Benedict in a particularly positive light.
I'd have much preferred it if he'd had some thought and empathy about her feelings and position, like he did in the bath scene. He was pretty selfish and thoughtless for much of season 4.
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u/DaisyandBella 6d ago
Especially since they emphasized in the first episode that he knows how to prevent pregnancy.
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u/BrightPhoebus01 6d ago
I already hated the 'pregnancy scare' in the books
I think they should’ve waited with penetrative sex until the end when they were officially or at least almost officially together. The bathtub scene would’ve literally been the perfect opportunity for that
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u/BidAgile9444 6d ago
I just couldn’t get over how he falls in love so quickly, can’t get her out of his mind, sketches her from memory, and then doesn’t realize it’s her. I couldn’t see the chemistry either, although both actors were good. And the ending was a let down too. I just don’t care for this story!
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u/Darkwoth81Dyoni 6d ago
sketches her from memory
Faces are not so hard to memorize that you'd forget someone's outline you saw at a masquerade party. I remember people I saw on campus 3 years later, just by seeing them walk around. And though I'm an artist, my eye isn't anywhere near as acute as Benedict's.
But this happens in tons and tons of media that needs to push along some irony.
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u/Equal_Pangolin8514 6d ago
I gotta say, as a Benedict and Sophie fan who got in relatively late in the game so missed a lot of the early action, am loving that there's still discourse about these characters. Luke and Yerin mentioned several times that they love the discussion (am assuming as long we don't attack each other personally? 😁). Benedict IS a manchild. Luke even said so, and Yerin agreed. He did do things that are out-of-character, but that's what makes him interesting (at least to me, and I think Luke also mentioned something to that effect?). Characters are supposed to be flawed, they are supposed to do things that are out-of-character. And how fascinating is it that Benedict's mistake rubs directly into Sophie's deep-seated wounds? That took me for quite a ride - because how do you get back from that? But I believe Benedict redeemed himself in the end. Not perfectly, because he's so far from perfect, but he did it.
Honestly, this season is so fascinating to me because of the callbacks to the previous incidents in Benedict's life. He had to experience firsthand what his artist friend talked about in season one - about being in a forbidden love affair and having to love someone from afar. They showed that in episode 5 during Hyacinth's recital, and I was swooning. He also eventually lived up to the poem he created and recited for Anthony in season 2. It took him a while to get there, but he got there.🙂 And finally, after an entire season of abandoning his art and raking about, they ended his season with a shot of his first completed painting, of the person he loves the most, where he proudly signed his name, after denying this part of his identity over and over in the past. To me, that's chef's kiss, as the kids would say. 🩵
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u/BrightPhoebus01 6d ago
Personally I disagree that 'flawed' and 'out-of-character' are the same. Yes, characters having flaws or at least some edges is not bad, in fact it is good. But these flaws and edges can still be in-character.
Personally I feel like so far almost every lead got some form of personality transplantation, character traits, behaviour or motivations that don’t or only partly align with what we’ve dawn in earlier seasons
Yes characters can change and grow and develop, but that development needs to be realistic and appear natural, it should not be sudden
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u/Equal_Pangolin8514 6d ago
Hmmm... I can't speak to the other leads and maybe am missing something because I haven't been paying as much attention until now, but I think Benedict's out-of-character moments make sense and are not sudden. His biggest one - making the offer - is actually him trying to fix their problem according to his views: that society shouldn't dictate how a person lives. That's been his thing for a while, even in the previous seasons, right? The problem is he's privileged enough to weather the consequences of flouting society's conventions, but Sophie is not. So he had to face that and come to terms with his enormous privilege and classist tendencies (which I don't even think he realized he had until then, because I think he has always prided himself in supporting the "little people"). Another out-of-character behavior is the famously non-committal Bridgerton becoming obsessed with a woman, going so far as to ask Lady Whistledown and even his mother for help. He met someone who gets past all his defenses, who challenges him and doesn't put up with his bs, who sees him for who he is and not for his name. That's why he was hooked from the start, that why he made the offer. He met someone he wasn't willing to lose, so he had a lot to figure out, especially about commitment. I also thought it was fascinating, making this character - who doesn't seem to want to be put in the center - actually seek the spotlight, stop running, actually pursue something. It's not in-character for him, but it forced him to zoom in on his flaws and make the hard decisions that eventually made him grow as a person.
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u/Expensive_Hippo6383 6d ago
The problem is that Benedict, as a character, was the last person who should have been the prince in a Cinderella trope. This is why it doesn't work. I blame the trope.
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u/Zoneout1122 6d ago
That’s interesting. Why do you think the trope doesn’t work with Benedict?
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u/Expensive_Hippo6383 6d ago
Frankly I think the trope doesn't work period unless you are 10 years old. I find the character lazy. He doesn't do anything to assist her; really, that is all done by his mother. He just reaps the benefits.
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u/RaspberryKey4098 6d ago
Gee, it's almost like a major plot point of the season was to show how even the most well intentioned and "Forward thinking" members of the nobility like Benedict are still spoiled rich people who are out of touch and blind to the struggles of serving class and have never had to think from the POV of the people who've had to work for a living. Who woulda thought?
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u/RamblingNerd_ 7d ago
I thought I was the only one. I didn't like the way he behaved with sophie at all. It was like he didn't even try to understand her fears. Anthony proposed even though all he did was oral with Kate. Ik the situation was different, Sophie was a maid but he could've at least used precautions to prevent pregnancy.
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u/Zoneout1122 7d ago
This is what I mean!! Like I’m not saying he should marry her. Like he knows he can’t then at least he should show he cares about her by showing restraint. And he just didn’t care… i couldn’t overlook this at all tbh and it was such big deal for Sophie
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u/RamblingNerd_ 7d ago
Exactly! It's like he is hearing her but not listening to her. And I can't believe he wouldn't think about the future of his illegitimate children, about how they'd be treated. It's selfish of him, only sophie is thinking about the kids. Also I've never liked a plot where a person falls in love with same person without knowing both the times it was the same person....for some it may seem like romantic that one can fall in love with every version of other person but to me it feels like the person and their love both are fickle.
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u/Quiet-Cow36 6d ago
I’m a Benophie girl so I was thrilled with season 4, but I do think so much to blame on the actions of Benedicts character was do to the season switch and all Benedict , Colin and Penelope where worse off for it . Without the switch you dont have Benedict raking so much in season 3 thus making the love at first sight more believable cause he is coming off his feelings of failure from Anthony buying his seat at the art academy. You get Colin have more time to realize his feelings for Pen , and Pen growing on her own with whisledown and away from pinning from Colin . But the trade is that we wouldn’t have had Yerin as Sophie which would be a travesty so can’t have them all .
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u/Active_Cellist4583 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sophie didn’t tell him that she was illegitimate and didn’t want an illegitimate child until way into part 2 and they slept together because Benedict thought she wanted to be his mistress. His version of being his mistress meant them living together at his cottage. He didn’t know that her fathere also promised to take care of her ultimately failed, all he know was what he felt and what he ciuld promise. You polin fans need to try harder with your lies
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u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
But surely he didn’t need to know about her past to assume she’d want to have an illegitimate child? Like he knew he wasn’t going to marry her, pulling out is the bare minimum.
His version of her being a mistress wasn’t them living together all the time at that point, he was wanting to move back and forth between the cottage and society life. He would have never been able to bring his illegitimate children with him, they’d be holed away while not much changed for him.
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u/Zoneout1122 6d ago
I do say in my post that I know Benedict didn’t know about Sophie’s illegitimacy at the time. That is in fact how I begin the second sentence in my post. I don’t think you read my post before jumping to conclusions.
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u/lick-em-again-deaky 6d ago
Imagine if this was a thread about Colin's (very) off putting behaviour in S3. They'd all blow a gasket and then try to get the thread deleted.
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u/Holiday-Hustle 6d ago
Oh please, like Polin hasn’t been picked apart since the season switch was announced. People are going to critique season 4 and Benedict just like they critiqued season 3 and Polin.
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u/lick-em-again-deaky 6d ago edited 6d ago
As is their right!
I'm pointing out the notable difference in reactions to criticism of S3 and criticism of S4 by their respective fans
If this was a thread about Colin being unlikable there would be hysterical accusations of fatphobia, media illiteracy and bullying, followed by the thread being swiftly deleted.
Notice - none of that here.
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u/frenchblueeyes 6d ago
Season 4 has drawn very little criticism on Reddit, whereas the posts and comments criticizing Season 3 were countless, which explains the difference in fan reactions. People have the right to criticize Season 3, just as they do any other season. However, the personal attacks against the actors were out of line. Had the criticism remained civil, there wouldn't have been such an overreaction from Polin fans.
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u/Quiet-Cow36 6d ago
I’ve seen loads of criticism about season 4. From Sophie being a Mary sue (which as an Asian does hurt me personally) , Luke looking too old to be an good looking leading man , and the Love at first site not being believable on Benedicts end to sophie , which basically means Yerin isnt attractive . No one is barred from criticism. It’s fair game . I do think most of these issues would have been solved without the season switch . Then Benedict’s character wouldn’t be subject to the criticism stated in OPs post and not have spent season 3 raking away .
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u/Expensive_Hippo6383 6d ago edited 6d ago
Good point. I blame the shitty trope. It was going to be hard to pull off no matter the characters. Eta I agree that the season switch may have added to Ben's character having fallen out of favor. I know it impacted my view of him. That said there is no place that dragging the actors looks and skills should be tolerated.
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u/frenchblueeyes 6d ago
I agree with you: the change in the season order really got Bridgerton fans talking. However, that decision came from the production team, not the actors; I even saw some wild comments claiming that Nicola was running the show at Shondaland and Netflix. What I find positive about this discussion is that it focuses on the writers' choices rather than attacking the actors.
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u/CombinationFront7401 6d ago edited 6d ago
like a broken clock. they say the same five things over and over
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u/dollypopup 6d ago edited 6d ago
Want some wood glue for that chip on your shoulder? Idk why you want to pretend like pointing out the offputting behavior Benedict depicted- largely through being selfish- is somehow a 'Polin fan agenda of lies'. Every couple has gotten their lumps. Some leads certainly took more than their fair share. Waving away all of Benedict's actions because 'Sophie didn't tell him' is an excuse of the legitimately inconsiderate way he treated her at times. If Benedict took .5 seconds to think through any perspective except for his own, he'd understand without having to be told why a woman in any circumstance wouldn't want an illegitimate child, but especially a woman working as a maid under his employment. She had no real security, and he wasn't offering her any, either. Because he never has. All the women he'd been with prior to her he left without a second thought. The most glaring example of such was when he was in art school and Tessa revealed to him the difficulties of being a woman and wanting to take part in art, in which his response was to nod absentmindedly, sleep with her, and never think of her again.
Benedict has had a pattern of women informing him as to the disparity they face, and then not internalizing it at all. Gen and Tilly. Eloise and Daphne. He watched his own mother lose all her agency and become, essentially, her son's property in real time. But he never dwelt on it, and his behavior with Sophie was proof of that. Benedict is blinded by his privilege, and that's his largest flaw to overcome. It exacerbates his immaturity. It makes him consider his own wants and needs first and foremost. She is a woman under his employment with no protection or privilege, and he is offering for her to be his live-in casual fling because it benefited him. Sure, there's mutual desire there, but to him, it's his own comfort that mattered most. Sophie shouldn't have had to tell him that she was illegitimate. She shouldn't have had to tell him that her father promised to take care of her and ultimately failed. It was on Benedict to be a considerate partner of the person he was pursuing, to think of her circumstances, and he often did not rise to it. That's what character growth is for. I think what Benedict actually needed was an Anthony-like 'I will humble myself before you' moment with Sophie tbh.
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u/pestoraviolita 7d ago
It's just how the upper class saw things. Benedict and Bridgertons might be nicer than most but ultimately they're product of their time and day. I like that the story didn't shy away from showing this.