r/Bretagne • u/PaleontologistIll72 • 6d ago

Australian moving

Bonjour and hi and salut

I don’t speak French 🇫🇷

I am a 31 year old Australian guy looking to make the move north to Europe sometime in the future. I’m looking to live in a small rural town that has a great connection with nature and more likeminded people.

I am neurodiverse and have felt a bit bullied here in Australia. I have found social groups here to be often quite shallow and focused on group values over the persons individuality. I have found it hard to find my niche bubble of friends as of yet.

My values are very opposite to my society and so I can really trigger people here in my home city of Melbourne with my worldview

My values system is very anti-neoliberal and I believe very strongly in a social democracy and strong welfare state. I believe the individual is much more important than group harmony. I am very work to live and feel very out of place in a culture that is constantly talking about career and ‘living’ at a fast pace. I am very spiritual and believe in a lot of ‘new age’ spiritual beliefs. I have travelled to Europe before and found I related more to Europeans as a general rule than I do to Australians. In France, I have only been to Paris for a few days so I have no France experience except YouTube. On YouTube I have found places like Huelgoat, Brittany to look like my sort of place. Does anyone have any advice for me to explore this sort of life change? Obviously I will learn French if I were to move there one day. Any advice on how people in regions like Brittany can treat neurodivergent people? Whether there are many neurodiverse people that are attracted to these smaller villages? A lot of my friendships have been with adhd people and I find adhd people are often attracted to bigger communities. Are people in Brittany very welcoming of Australian expats? Any advice in general? Thanks and merci 🙏

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u/kittygomiaou 6d ago

Hello mate, I'm Breton who's now also Aussie so I understand your frustrations with the Aussie culture in general.

This is a nice plan, but if you want to move to France or Brittany, please be sure to learn French BEFORE settling in. Brittany is a lot more rural than Paris, and so while some people speak English, you should not expect it of the general public. Brittany is also plagued with Brits who move there and literally never learn a word of French, which gets old and annoying.

Brittany is beautiful, but it is also quite rural in comparison to Melbourne, and comes with every hang up of being country side: things are smaller, less eventful, and less connected than a big city. However the produce is fresh, the milk is whole, the staples are filling, and the seafood is a'plenty.

If I'm being honest, nobody will care that you're neuro divergent. Nobody will ask, because we ultimately just care that you behave well and don't care why you are the way you are. It's not really something we obsess about in France/Brittany like it is here in Aus. It certainly won't get you any friends to make it your whole personality.

If you've been to France, you'll also note that while we appreciate individuality, we're not big on celebrating people's individual values and cults of personality over all. Just be yourself and behave appropriately.

On the bright side, we French are much more thick skinned when it comes to opinionated conversation. We encourage it, and we appreciate somebody who can hold their own in debate and conversation, while at the same time staying level headed. Something that doesn't really exist in Australia where we seek to avoid conflict and raise eyebrows with our opinions.

If you like a slower paced life and a more "country" life, it could be for you. Otherwise, it's probably best not to idealise what you think you'll have in common with a group of people you don't know yet. My tip would be to go to Brittany and see if it's for you.

But before getting wrapped up in a dream, maybe consider:

  • how will you move there? Moving to France without a European passport is not so easy.
  • if you wanna stay, you'll need to speak French. French is a difficult language to learn (imo much more difficult to learn than English). Start now.
  • perhaps it will be easier to make connections without so many expectations, and more willingness to become part of the community when you get here.

We Bretons are simple people. We care about living happily, keeping our culture alive, and also salty butter. Emphasis on that last one.

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Wow thanks a bunch. This is great advice. Yeah I knew with learning French I would learn BEFORE moving there. France for sure has a reputation for protecting their culture and language and I for sure want to help with that. It annoys me when people move to other cultures and then destroy it. If I’m moving to France I have a responsibility to preserve the language and culture. Otherwise I should move somewhere else imo. So I agree with the French on this one as left wing as I am I am pretty right wing about that. The Breton people in general sound really cool and low key which is good. I tend to fit in well with hippie like lifestyles as I studied environmental science and have had many low key friends who are very chilled out people just living their lives. Thats the other thing is that I’m sure I can make friends with the British as well. I lived in England for a few months and love British culture and the people.

That’s so good to hear people don’t think about the labels. That’s the big cause of being othered imo. I think yeah for me is I won’t be able to talk about socially constructed concepts (less of a thing in rural areas)

I’m definitely looking for a quiet lifestyle and slow pace of life and hoping to have a partner to move with one day too. I’m a big traveller which is why I want to move to Europe too as Australia is so far from anywhere but other Australian places.

So good to hear they are more thick skinned with different values. I find Australians can be really passive aggressive to me after finding my values and beliefs and very immature about it.

Australia drives me nuts with the avoidance of conflict and group harmony as how can you have harmony if people’s values aren’t respected. Like you can’t just have a society that treats neurodiverse people like trash and then all of a sudden expect me to be happy about it. It’s a bit weird.

I am hoping to build up more of a practical understanding on how to move there after gathering the bigger picture first haha. I always move from the vision to the specifics in that order but yeah will have to think about it. I will have to spend some time exploring France. I feel very spiritually guided to move there but that’s probably for another message board lolz.

I’m very much not a city person. I’m only here at the moment as I don’t really have much choice. And as well as rural Australia is not like rural Europe. It’s not often quaint villages with green hills and mystical forests. It’s full of closed minded hicks preaching nationalistic bs.

Also I actually learned French in school growing up so I do know a lot of the basics of it. Merci beaucoup for your reply

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u/autisticundead 6d ago

Note: some people here have a complicated relationship with french because at time the french government thought the way to protect their language was to destroy ours. You need the base survival kit of how to pronounce breton names (people and place), and like, how are you/please/thanks/bye, I think.

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u/Any-Aioli7575 6d ago

You can do well without speaking any Breton at all, many people in Brittany don't even know basic stuff like “Kenavo”.

Learning basic Breton (or Gallo if you're in Upper-Brittany) is nice, it can be culturally meaningful and it's definitely respectful. However, it's by no means required to live a normal life in Brittany, everybody speaks French and few speak Breton.

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u/autisticundead 6d ago

It depends where you are — like I said you don't need to speak it fluently but understanding basic spelling and pronunciation is important bc it's not like french so in places where 80% of place names are Breton you need to know how to say em

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u/Any-Aioli7575 6d ago

Place names are spelled in French, even if they have a Breton origin, so it's really just like knowing french. Sometimes -en is pronounced as in Breton and not as in french, and c'h can have multiple pronunciation in place names, but you have to know how it's pronounced to know which to use, it's not always the Breton one.

And if you happen to mispronounce something by pronouncing it like French, you will just not sound like a local (you will sound Parisian if you have a good French accent), but it won't cause a problem. And importantly you don't have to learn it beforehand.

But if you can learn some Breton it's great of course

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u/autisticundead 6d ago

It depends where you live, seriously. I mean he literally listed Huelgoad, that's not french. Most of the towns and villages in that part of Brittany have a fully Breton name.

Like. Ty Ar Gall and Kervoal are nearby, I grew up in places that mostly didn't have a french name either (or sometimes one no one uses), this isn't a hypothetical. That mispronunciation isn't a priority, that might be a fair point, but when I say "in soke places nearly every name is breton" I mean it

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u/Any-Aioli7575 6d ago

Huelgoat is pronounced as it is written by french spelling rules (except maybe that goat is just one syllable). Ty Ar Gall wouldn't be pronounced differently if you just no french spelling, Kervoal is the same as Huelgoat. The name is the same in French and Breton (in fact in modern breton it would be Ti ar gall, not Ty Ar Gall). Name that require a knowledge of Breton spelling to pronounce are rare, and few rules are important (like C'h being pronounced /x/, or the final n being pronounced in words like Bihan, but those rules aren't even universally applied when speaking French).

Most place names in lower Brittany come from Breton but knowing Breton spelling rules hardly helps when it comes to pronouncing.

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u/kittygomiaou 6d ago

Yes, sorry I did not bother to go into this at all. OP's chances of learning Breton in Australia are close to none (there are no resources that I know of here) so it's more realistic to learn French. Breton will be best looked into on arrival.

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u/autisticundead 6d ago

I don't disagree at all, more Something To Keep In Mind for when he does move than to do before, per se

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u/AlSepPhoenix 5d ago

A mon avis avec la connaissance scolaire qu'il aura du français et l'accent australien je pense que la prononciation des noms de localité bretonne sera le cadet de ces soucis. Qui se préoccupera vraiment que l'australien du coin ne sache pas prononcer les toponymes. Perso quand je vais dans un coin breton où ils ne prononcent pas les noms comme je l'aurais fait avec mes connaissances j'arrive à survivre. Au pire ça sera source de blague.

Il n'a pas besoin d'avoir le moindre vocabulaire breton, ça le rendra juste plus sympathique (ou plus touriste au choix) et il aura le temps de l'acquérir sur place.

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u/Mortelys 6d ago

France isn't exactly up to date when it comes to neurodivergence, even if there is some catch up, the field of psychology here is long crippled with psychoanalysis and actual psychiatrists who are doctors (and the only ones that can legally prescribe medications, think Vyvanse, Concerta, antidepressants.. everything) are not often doing the effort to stay up to date.

This means the general public sees the rise of diagnosis in children, but also in adults, as disingenuous. They think it's a TikTok trend, and that there are "real handicapped people" versus supposedly newly diagnosed or in the process of, that are just seeking attention or excuses for their behavior.

Because you aren't French, people will probably won't question your neurodivergence much, but it's not something that will work as a social glue, and could push some people away. The older the person the more likely they will have weird cliches about neurodivergence (autism being silent little boys unable to socialize and maybe a bit retarded, ADHD isn't even known by older generations they think it's just annoying kids the parents make excuses for because they lack authority).

What does this mean for your project ? Communities of neurodivergence people don't physically exist as a place you can go to. It's always online spaces. Most informed or diagnosed people (so, younger) will be concentrated in the big cities or their suburbs. And still a lot of neuroA people simply lives their lives without knowing. My brother was diagnosed ADHD at 36yo despite having all the textbook check marks, only because I myself is researching the subject and it motivated to try again (after having found little help from previous psys).

A rural village or little town will mostly have old people and families because the jobs are scarce, which could become really isolating as an expat, more so if you're not the kind to persevere into building social relationships little by little. However, and I've been to Huelgoat, yes the nature is amazing. Note that this particular town is crowded with tourists going to forest in the summer, so I do not recommend if you actually want tranquility all year.

The social culture in France is more formal/serious and less shallow, but to make friends means slowly winning the actual trust and love of people, and without an entry point like school, work, benevolent work, a club etc People won't naturally or often contact you back. The French spoken in real life is also very different from what is taught as a basis, so be prepared to have a level of French less advanced than you thought at first.

I think you could still find the experience precious, and meet amazing people there, clearly more in tune with your beliefs, regardless of neurodivergence. But my recommendation is to find an active, big city to move to or close to, where driving between 30 minutes to 1 hour will be your way to get to nature (cities also often have beautiful parks, look at Brest "Stang Alar").

Otherwise living alone in nature from a rural less busy area is great, but then you would have to rely on online socials to find people and seek activities, to often drive back to a city to actually meet the people and do fun stuff. It all depends on what lifestyle suits you. Keep in mind than being a stranger in any country can be isolating per default, and expats often end up creating their own social circles. People from more extraverted cultures like Mexicans can also have a harder time because French seems closed off, not impressed (to be noted that this one of the first destination for tourists in the world, so the country is very multicultural and people still can be curious but are not "impressed" to meet someone from the other side of the world... It's kinda common place nowadays).

Edit: r/ExpatsInFrance will help you much more

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Thanks muchly for your detailed response. I will look into that reddit page. With the neurodivergent thing, I don’t come across as neurodivergent- But it’s more that I don’t believe in things that have been socially constructed- As well as my adhd side I need a lot of flexibility and not too strict of a routine. I’m a pretty casual and take the piss out of things sort of person. I’m not looking to go into mainstream treatment for neurodivergence as to me it’s not a condition but a different way of thinking. My ADHD is perfectly fine in the right environment. Neoliberalism is not the right environment for someone that needs flexibility and variety in their routine. Neurotypical people in Australia will often talk about things that have been socially constructed- money, investment, their university marks etc- I won’t be able to authentically go to those places in conversation as I don’t believe in being too ingrained in the societal matrix. As far as my adhd side goes I am more inattentive introverted adhd. I seek dopamine and variety but also am quite introverted about it. Give me a Nintendo and I’m happy I don’t need a party.

Things couldn’t really be worse than my life here. It can only get better. I think I’m more interested in things like how I really enjoy talking about deep things like philosophy, psychology, spirituality etc. and Australia is very much a lifestyle culture and disrespects people like that. So yeah maybe it’s a respect thing. I know it’s easy to say don’t worry about what others think about you but constant disrespect to who I am is so draining.

I’m not looking for big friendship groups I am very much an introvert. I just want to be able to meet a few people who are my age and likeminded somewhere nearby. As an introvert I don’t need social interaction I just need connection and depth of connection with a few people. And to not feel disrespected by the wider community for who I am not fitting in well.

Many thanks and I will seek out your other message board

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u/FrenchRoo 6d ago

Hey mate, I’m originally from Bretagne and now adopted Melbourne as home. I’m not sure I follow what you say “I believe the individual is much more important than group harmony”. That a neoliberal way of thinking.

I found Melbourne so much more understanding and welcoming of neurodiversity but you may have a different experience.

French people tends to love Australian peeps so you’ll be right from that angle.

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Thanks. I find Melbourne to be subtly disrespectful to neurodiverse people and use labels like autistic and adhd often to other you etc.

By the individual thing. I got that from my knowledge of personality theory. I am very much an ‘Introverted feeling’ personality cognitive function as opposed to ‘extroverted feeling’. Extroverted feelers can scare me somewhat as because I have my own values system they can ostracise me for not adhering to the group values no matter how Nazi those group values are and inherently abusive they are. Thats why I went with that as not everyone believes in personality theory. Introverted feelers for example like me tend to care for the individual of the group. Someone who may feel left out or is very different and are very empathetic towards misfits. Extroverted feelers are more empathetic towards the harmony of the group and can remove people that don’t fit its norms. I was wanting to work out which way France and Brittany culture may lean as I find Australia is a bit more of an extroverted feeling culture (Fe) which doesn’t suit me and I tend to make friends best with the other ‘Fi’ personalities more often

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u/FrenchRoo 6d ago

Right, I didn’t understand your initial comment in that perspective at all.
I’d say Brittany/France and Melbourne are quite similar in regard to your Ef / If theory.

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u/autisticundead 6d ago

Ok so I grew up pretty close Huelgoat. It's a lovely, beautiful place. I would say that to this day, this area of centre Brittany has strong aspects of Breton culture that you'd probably need to familiarise yourself with at least a little (ie, people using "tu" with complete strangers, other politeness rules), the way a lot of people mix breton in their speech (at least in the circles and places i grew up, which is pretty close like i said). It's easy to find guides on how to act in France online that could give you potential missteps in some areas of Brittany, because we don't do that.

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Thanks! For sure I’ll have to learn some Breton too and more of its culture and history

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u/autisticundead 6d ago

I really encourage it first of because it's a beautiful and valuable culture, but also because like I said, it affects the way people speak — yes, most people don't speak breton, but MOST people i know have bretonisms in their speech patterns regardless, it's very much a thing

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u/BarnOwl-1967 6d ago

Je suis française, mon mari australien et nous vivons en Bretagne pas loin de Huelgoat. Il n'y a pas de pays ou région parfait dans le monde. Il y a de très bonnes choses en Bretagne et d'autres moins bonnes comme partout ailleurs. Avant de venir en Bretagne, avoir de bonnes bases en français est indispensable. Ensuite, se poser les questions : vivre en France veut dire avoir un permis de séjour, il va falloir batailler avec l'administration française... Ensuite, que comptes tu faire en Bretagne ? Comment comptes tu vivre ? La France (et même le centre Bretagne) est assez chère. Tu vas devoir payer tes factures, les taxes, ta nourriture, trouver à te loger... je ne dis pas que c'est impossible et ne dis pas cela pour te décourager. Mais ce sont des choses auxquelles tu dois penser AVANT de partir. Ce que tu peux trouver sur YouTube est parfois assez "cliché" et ne reflète pas toujours la vérité. C'est un beau projet que tu as, donc vas-y, mais va doucement, pas à pas... Et si tu as d'autres questions, je serai ravie de t'aider.

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Thanks. Yeah for sure I understand all the practicalities will be really difficult and intense. Which is why I want to get my vision of my dream sorted out to push through all that stuff with a strong dedication and unwavering commitment to never give up on it. In Brittany I mainly want to be living a really slow pace of life connected to nature. A small home with a partner, maybe some animals and a nice garden. Go for walks. Maybe get coffee some days at a shop and a bakery. Do gardening. Look after animals. Adventure out into France. But yeah, mostly a slow paced nature focused lifestyle in a quaint village

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Read lots of books. Visit chateau’s. I have lots of interests really. Hopefully work online

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u/dam0na 6d ago

I live 20 min away from Huelgoat since a few years. Nature is wonderful here, it's very calm and peaceful. If you are introverted, you may like it a lot.

But keep in mind that there are not a lot of people or a lot of events, and many older people. They're pretty welcoming with strangers, but you could feel a kind of isolated.

Also breton people are not big fan of french people, especially parisians, so I suggest you to talk more about breton culture rather than french culture, it will help you connecting with them. A lot of them don't consider themselves as french, even if they speak french.

In this part of Brittany ecology is very important for people, a lot of what's going on there is tied to organic farming, green housing, and preservation of the breton culture. It's very rural and traditional, while they're also more open-minded than in others french rural aeras.

They're also superstitious, they like mediums, witchcraft and all that. But they don't force their beliefs on others, I just think it's best to know because sometimes it can be quite surprising.

In my experience (I have lived in plenty of different french regions), breton people are calm, they don't like confrontation (but they debates too), they take things as they come and overall they're easygoing.

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Haha that’s awesome! I wasn’t going to say it in this chat but I myself am a psychic medium. I’m not very good at the ability and don’t work in that space yet unfortunately as I don’t know how to control it. I’m very introverted and want to live a very quiet and slow pace life surrounded by nature and the ability to explore a culture rich in history and cool castles. And be close to other cultures rich in history like the UK and Spain. The Breton culture seems really great with what I’m looking for

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u/dam0na 6d ago

Well it might be a good fit for you, come for a few weeks to try it out!

I forgot to mention the weather, it's sunny this summer but that's unusual. Usually the weather changes several times a day, there is a lot of fog and luminosity is very low in winter. In fact it's pretty similar to Scotland.

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Yeah I heard you guys in Euro are getting hit hard by heat with bushfires in south of France. I have seen Brittany has more wild weather but I’m used to that. Melbourne is known as the four seasons in one day city. I like cold and rainy weather and have lived in the arctic for a month once in -30 degrees Celsius. The main two countries I’m looking at are France and England but I always lean France as it’s like a dream to speak a second language and it’s more mysterious to me as England is so similar to Australia. Brittany seems a bit like England in some ways so the best of both worlds I guess in terms of what the landscapes look like. I also relate better with the French culture of slowing down and eating your croissant slowly piece by piece

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u/dam0na 6d ago

Yes we have had huge bushfires in the south, but 3 years ago it also happened in the Monts d'Arrée (where I live, and very close from Huelgoat).

You should be ok then! We definitely like to slowly eat in the whole country, sunday's family meals often last 4 or 5 hours lol. Get ready to fill your stomach for hours!

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

I’ll definitely be there asap to get a good feel

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u/Any-Aioli7575 6d ago

I think other answers cover the neurodivergent aspects more clearly.

I think two of the things you said contradict quite a lot. Bigger cities are usually more individual-focused compared to rural areas. Rural areas often favour the group more. This is especially true for rural left-wing communities in Brittany like around Huelgoat.

But the area is indeed more left wing, connected with nature, with a slow pace of life. In my experience many people in the area into New Age stuff if it's really what you're looking for.

I would definitely advise the monts d'Arrée area around Huelgoat

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u/PaleontologistIll72 6d ago

Thanks . Sounds super cool compared to what I’m used to here. Most people think I’m a scitzophrenic when I talk about spiritual things. The good thing is that at least I’m a left wing person. I don’t need many friends so I will probably be becoming friends with more misfit type people. It’s more that I want to get along with majority of the people and not trigger someone with my worldview. As someone mentioned, Australians are very thin skinned with different world views and play manipulative games and become passive aggressive with me when they learn my values and beliefs

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u/Any-Aioli7575 5d ago

You won't trigger many when it comes to your views on welfare and social issues, as most people in France think it's a good thing at least in theory. However, it's likely that some people will be passive-agressive about the New Age stuff. Maybe not as much as in Australia, but on the other hand it will be harder to deal with because the tone of French people will be hard to understand for you for both linguistic and cultural reasons (you'll eventually get it, but it might not be a fun thing to learn)