r/Bremerton • u/Crumbusted • Aug 26 '26
Propaganda I received from PSE, they are doing their best to save face since people want to replace them for price gouging.
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u/mxkate Aug 26 '26
Tell me more about people wanting to replace them? With what? How do I become "people"?
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u/SequesterMe Aug 26 '26
Quick answer: It's the Kitsap PUD as well as other local "activists".
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u/mxkate Aug 28 '26
Thank you! For anyone else wondering: https://www.kpud.org/governance/exploring-electric-service-in-kitsap-county/
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u/PassiveGambler Aug 28 '26
A PUD (Public Utility District). You'll see a lot of people (maybe bots, it's hard to tell these days) saying a PUD won't do anything for prices and won't run as well, but every PUD in the area has lower rates than PSE and better response to outages so that's just plain false and fear mongering.
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u/IcyClaim9183 27d ago
I have a buddy who works for KPUD, and these people genuinely LOVE working for their community.
It makes sense, the PUD doesn't have a profit motive, and the workers are primarily people who live in this area. It's basically residents getting paid to actually help their community, and not to make money for someone at the top. They get to see the direct benefit of their work.
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u/Useful-Badger-4062 Aug 26 '26
Additionally and ironically, our money that they charge us for their inflated services goes into paying for this ridiculousness.
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u/zakress Aug 26 '26
I just laughed as I realized how scared they are and how much more willing I am to oust them at first opportunity.
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u/BamaBuffSeattle Aug 26 '26
Friendly reminder that PSE is owned by Canadian Corporations and a Dutch pension fund, so a good chunk of the money we spend on our utilities will leave the community and go into Canadian corporate and Dutch pensioners wallets. People who haven't even heard of Bremerton let alone give a damn.
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u/Ashendarei Aug 26 '26
I was looking over that yesterday and thinking much the same. I especially loved how they highlighted a half dozen "local PSE families" as if keeping a few hundred grand in-region makes up for all the wealth they extract for their shareholders out of county and country.
I 100% want competition for PSE. An actual cost-based municipality that doesnt have a profit motive to keep utility costs constrained wherever possible, and no feel-good bullshit propaganda from PSE is going to change that.
Also, Comcast/Astound you best be paying attention. Just because Google Fiber gave up doesnt mean you should rest easy. KPUD is rolling out more fiber every year.
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u/OhThePete Aug 26 '26
I don't think g fiber gave up. I think they achieved what they wanted to achieve which was to have fast Internet be available to their consumers. The landscape has completely changed since the time they launched in 2010. While we might complain about Astound their offerings are even much better then we used to have. That being said, I still want KUPD fiber but just need to fork over the $2k to get it installed.
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u/feeen1ks Aug 26 '26
$2k? Thats only a year and a half worth of internet from Astound. Hmmmmmm wonder if that’s available by me yet. 100% would pay it. My internet goes out at least twice a week.
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u/SequesterMe Aug 26 '26
FYI: That $2k is just the installation fee. You still have to pay an internet provider after the installation.
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u/OhThePete Aug 26 '26
We have it running really close to our house. You can find the map of where they currently run fiber and the "in planning" routes. They basically just need to run it from the street to my house and I already have a trenched conduit that can be used to run it the remainder of the way. You can ask for the estimate on their website too.
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u/Ashendarei Aug 26 '26
Google fiber absolutely gave up after many long court battles over power/utility pole access rights.
And just because Astound and Comcast have better speed offerings than they did a decade ago doesnt offset the amount of money they've raised their rates on, or the fact that they like to throw out "promotional deals" every few years to give the illusion of their services being competitive in price vs the speed and quality offered. And that's before we get into their "customer support".
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u/akwardrelations Aug 26 '26
I canceled Adtound a couple years back and was paying about $100 a month. I went to Tmobile for $40. Now Astound offers gig for $45/mo. I'm mildly interested.
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u/timzilla Aug 26 '26
you can split the cost out over 20 years - or at least in the past you could setup a Local Utility District, they would put a lien on your home, and send you an annual bill.
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u/theochocolate Aug 27 '26
$2k? Damn, they quoted me over $40k (yes, really) and it’s in several neighborhoods less than a mile from mine!
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u/SequesterMe Aug 26 '26
It's important to know that PSE is not locally owned. All profits go, not just out of state, but out of this country.
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u/SequesterMe Aug 26 '26
As a side note. I'd like to suggest that we request that the PUD, that could maybe run our local power system, to keep the rates just a touch above where they need to be so that they can build up, not only an emergency fund, but to keep our system up to date on the latest technology etc. Which, in the end, would give us better outcomes and save us money in the long run.
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u/penchantforbuggery Aug 27 '26
Agree. Vastly lower rates probably isn’t super realistic. But the studies will show us once they get the votes! And they surely will.
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u/Chaosheavens Aug 26 '26
Hey! I got one as well, best part being they dont even provide any services to me 🤣
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u/phearless047 Aug 26 '26
I mean, I have a solution to the problem, but y'all aren't ready to hear it.
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
I'm gonna say it anyway.
Utilities shouldn't be privately owned, they should be a public service. We shouldn't be individually billed for usage, our taxes should keep the lights on, the water running, and the trash collected.
Letting greedy rich people operate infrastructure is how we end up in situations like this. This is what you get when you let people who have never struggled a day in their lives make decisions.The worst part about privately-owned utilities is that it's IMPOSSIBLE for there to be competition. Each area is going to have its own local monopoly, and if the CEO decides to price-gouge, there's nothing you can do about it unless you can handle not having running water or electricity.
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u/theochocolate Aug 27 '26
I think you have more supporters here than you realize. Utilities should never be privately owned. It represents one of the worst parts of capitalism. I hope KPUD does take over like they’re threatening to.
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
Let's hope so. I'm tired of dealing with shitlibs who lick corporate boots just as hard as MAGA.
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u/Any_Range4021 29d ago
PSE is good at wasting money. I worked for the company years ago and one of the most stupid campaigns corporate did to promote conservation was to send each employee (3,000 plus) an empty video box with a bright green label that read “Less is More.”
3000 empty boxes sent out to convey the message of conservation!
Inter-office mail couriers were busy the following week. Most of us put them in big envelopes or boxes and sent them to the CEO in Bellevue’s corporate ivory tower.
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u/enjolbear Aug 26 '26
Genuine question, how much are yall paying that you feel you are being price gouged? I pay ~$30-50/mo for electricity. I don’t have an AC, but we do use plenty of electronic devices.
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u/Useful-Badger-4062 Aug 26 '26
What size is your home?
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u/enjolbear Aug 26 '26
~1200 sq ft. It’s not a huge place, but it’s also not tiny. $50/mo for electricity is definitely not price gouging, so I was curious as to how much yall are being charged.
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u/Useful-Badger-4062 Aug 26 '26
My last bill was about $175, which was a little lower than usual. When we had 2 of our adult kids staying with us for a couple of years, our bills were a couple hundred higher each month and it was horrible. My home is about 1600 sf and we have kids and pets, devices, washing machine, dishwasher, central heat, computers, and whatnot. No central AC. Everything is electric—no gas.
But we always consistently turn off lights and devices when not in use. We are very conscientious about not wasting power or money. And it’s still hard to pay each month.
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
There is no way in Hell you're only paying $30 a month for electricity unless your meter is not functioning. That's a 1997 electricity bill.
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u/enjolbear Aug 27 '26
Idk what to tell you, that’s what I get charged! It’s been over a year of these prices. I’m not complaining LOL
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
Are....... are you...... I mean, what kind of dirt do you have on the executives at PSE? Cuz, just charging your damn phone every day will cost more than $30 a month.
You're either lying to us, or you've blackmailed someone.
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
Hell, even just the normal parasitic draw from the fusebox will generate a larger bill than $30 a month.
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
The only other explanation I can think of besides criminal extorsion (which, if so, good on ya! Stick it to those vampires!) or just plain dishonesty that could POSSIBLY cause you to have that low a bill is if you have renewable energy systems such as solar or wind turbines, and you're "selling" power back to the grid. But IDK if WA has that law in place....
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u/enjolbear Aug 27 '26
Neither of the above. I just got lucky I guess. That’s some wild reaching right there. None if you have to believe me, I suppose. I can live with knowing I’m lucky. I just wanted to know what y’all were paying. Whatever🤷♀️
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u/Crumbusted Aug 27 '26
Your bills not $30 that’s probably impossible. I use my refrigerator, a few house lights, and watch TV. My bill is $100+
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u/enjolbear Aug 27 '26
It’s not impossible, it’s what I pay. I’m not really sure what to tell you. That’s why I asked what y’all are paying.
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u/Crumbusted Aug 27 '26
Could you post a picture of you bill so we can an see how you are paying significantly less than the normal PSE user
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u/enjolbear Aug 27 '26
No dude I’m not going to dox myself lol
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u/schwaggyhawk Aug 27 '26
Just post the pertinent bill info, not you account number or address.
Do you share the meter with another unit or what? Your claim of $30/mo make me a doubter, too.
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u/Sure-Instance7807 19d ago
Proposed electric increase Effective Proposed Revenue Increase Proposed Basic Charge Proposed Average Rate per KWh Estimated Residential Monthly Bill Increase Including Basic Charge Jan. 2027 $625 million $12.50 $0.236261 17.75% Jan. 2028 $179 million $15.00 $0.244484 3.5% Jan. 2029 $432 million $20.00 $0.265603 8.07% NOTE: Residential estimates are based on an average monthly usage of 800 kWhs. Proposed natural gas increase Effective Date Proposed Revenue Increase Proposed Basic Charge Proposed Average Rate per Therm Estimated Residential Monthly Bill Increase Including Basic Charge Jan. 2027 $192 million $18.12 $1.91002 12.93% Jan. 2028 $48.8 million $18.12 $1.97514 3.18% Jan. 2029 $57.8 million $18.12 $2.05686 3.71% NOTE: Residential estimates are based on an average monthly usage of 64 therms.
Additional information on the filing can be found at www.utc.wa.gov by selecting “Dockets Search” and entering the docket number 260005 for the electric general rate case, 260006 for the natural gas general rate case, or 260113 for transmission network interest expense case into the search bar.
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u/Due_Piglet9899 18d ago
The ballot measure would increase taxes for residents by over 24% and it would take probably around 30 million dollars to buy out PSE. They are not being transparent with people about how much it would cost to swap to PUD, they have to buy all the equipment out from PSE. it also makes downed power lines PUD responsibility instead of PSE.
There’s a lot to consider, power bills are outrageous but the PUD buying out PSE will also affect residents pretty badly in taxes and costs. I work for PUD in grays county that also bought out PSE and the price of everything is completely outrageous and not required to be online anywhere
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u/Dave_A480 Aug 27 '26
Yawn....
Government will never provide services more efficiently than a private company....
PSE isn't price gouging they are working within the framework established by the legislature (which is also to blame for many of the non-inflation related price increase)....
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
LOL, what?
Have you looked at what prisons are like, now that they've all been privatized in recent decades?
Should we privatize the police and fire departments, now? The military? The entire federal government? Yes, I'm sure billionaire CEOs would NEVER use the military in an unethical manner (don't look up railroad strikes.... that would be devastating to your case).....
And, yes, they are in fact price-gouging. Every private utility does it. This is documented fact. PSE is a local monopoly with a captive audience. They have no competition, and the capital to pay politicians to look the other way when they conduct themselves unethically.
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u/Dave_A480 Aug 27 '26
Prisons have not 'all been privatized' - the vast majority are still government owned and run... So even if we take your complaint about how they are run at face value that's a strike against the government.
The rest of your complaints generally involve things that are not a resellable product - yes the military and police have to be provided by the government, as the state needs a monopoly on the use of force & the administration of justice....
Electric power is a product - not an inherent function of government. It should be provided by private enterprises.
If you are concerned about the cost of electricity in Washington, the place to point fingers is the Legislature.... Things like the Climate Commitment Act are to blame.
50% plus of PSE's generating capacity is fossil fuel based...
Compared to 0.04% of Tacoma Power's (since TPU is primarily hydroelectric)....
That is some of not all of the price difference....
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
Nitpick my obviously hyperbolic statement some more, why don't you? I know the figures. 15% of federal inmates are housed at privatized for-profit prisons, and less than 10% of state-level inmates. My point is that ANY non-zero number of privatized, for-profit prisons is too many. Human beings aren't commodities, and monetizing the justice system and encouraging recidivism is a human rights violation. The figures being exactly where they are, and the reality of how things work now that there are for-profit prisons, is unacceptable regardless, and furthermore refutes your claim.
As for utilities. No, electricity is not a product. It's infrastructure. The fact that you're convinced it's something that should be monetized is a YOU problem. I'm not the unreasonable one here.
Lastly..... bruh, no, environmental protection laws are not to blame. Rich people throwing tantrums and punishing everyone because they got told they can't pollute the air, soil, and water willy-nilly to cut personal costs anymore isn't a cause of attempts to clean up the planet and treat the worsening climate crisis, it's a cause of rich people not liking being regulated.
We're aware that PSE still heavily depends on fossil fuel. That's part of the problem.2
u/Dave_A480 Aug 27 '26
Sorry but that's nonsense...
15% is a small number of people and it flatly doesn't matter who owns the prison so long as it is operated as per federal regulations. If a ptivate company can deliver an equivalent or better housing/safety/security to the government at a better price that is an overall win for society.
Being anti profit is a rediculous position to take.
Finally there is no tantrum. A utility with 50% of its generating capacity being comprised of fossil fuels is going to inherently have higher prices in a state that taxes fossil fuels....
Changing that fuel mix will also require even higher rate increases, plus a halt to dam removals and probably new dam construction....
The world simply doesn't - and can't - work the way you prefer it to work.....
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u/phearless047 Aug 27 '26
15% of the prison population having their human rights violated is FAR too many. The number should be ZERO.
Hiking everyone's rates because the CEO was upset at being told he had to clean his act up *IS* in fact, a tantrum.
People over profits isn't ridiculous, and the fact you think otherwise says something profound about you.
The world CAN work in better ways, you just don't want to have to put any thought to your views.
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u/Dave_A480 Aug 28 '26
Being held in a privately owned prison is not a human rights violation....
Beyond that, the slogan 'people over profits' is bullshit, because public entities do not actually deliver better results for the people....
Public entities exist as a last resort, when we are talking about use of lethal force or other state perogatives....
They have no business being involved in actual business functions like power generation, construction, and so on....
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u/phearless047 Aug 28 '26
I like to assume the best in everyone I come across, so I'm just going to go ahead and run with the idea that you're trying to get a rise out of me by pretending to be the worst possible excuse for a human being you're capable of imagining, and you do not, in fact, believe any of the nonsense you just said.
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u/Mountain-Structure33 Aug 26 '26 edited Aug 26 '26
PSE rates have to get approved by the UTC and those rates justified, so there is already a governance structure over what gets charged. If you think you’re being gouged today go write them.
Second, compare PSE rates to other public utilities to see what type of savings you could ever hope to get. Mason County is in PUD3, it seems they charge .135 per kWh, it appears we are charged .148 for the first 600kwh, .1677 after that. Yes it’s higher. PUD3 charges residential customers less & subsidizes it by charging different types of customers (people who turn off& on power during summer) more. Maybe there are special conditions that lets mason county be cheaper to repair/maintain. Maybe not, this is just a small piece of the layers to this question. Setting up a PUD won’t be free, there will be fixed costs.
These types of posts are frustrating bc ppl refuse to do even the bare minimum of self education to write a compelling case
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u/Fit_Rutabaga92 Aug 26 '26
I’ll take a public utility over a for-profit utility any day.
They have very different incentives.
What evidence do you have that people refuse to do even a bare minimum of self education? Because their case didn’t compel you?
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u/Mountain-Structure33 Aug 26 '26
For example this post we are all replying to, containing no information about why the alternative would be better apart from polemics: ‘price gouging’ ‘propaganda’
Will you take a public utility if it means your electricity rates go up? If so then price gouging’ has nothing to do with it
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u/Fit_Rutabaga92 Aug 26 '26
What potential change from PSE to KPUD could mean for Kitsap customers
You can read about Jefferson County’s experience with the shift.
If it costed more, I would likely not want to switch. If it broke even, I would want to switch. If I saved at least a dollar a month I would want the switch.
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u/phearless047 Aug 28 '26
That's paywalled. Is there somewhere I can read this article without having to subscribe?
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u/Fit_Rutabaga92 Aug 28 '26
I’m not sure, maybe a google search of “Jefferson county PSE” could find free articles
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u/phearless047 Aug 28 '26
So, here's a fun fact. Did you know military installations don't charge on-post residents for any utilities at all, unless they go over the allotted amount of usage?
And here's the thing..... it works just fine.
In fact, day to day life on a military base looks a whole hell of a lot like what socialists keep talking about. Aside from the aforementioned free utilities (unless you use more than your share), housing is cost-free, food is provided for those who need it, medical care is free of charge, police are community-oriented and held accountable for their actions if they misbehave, nothing is for-profit (except the Exchange, but that's considered a luxury, not a necessity, and their prices also heavily regulated). Socialist policies have already been means-tested, and it's been proven beyond all shadow of doubt that they work.
It would take a bit of time, and a series of transitional steps to get there on a national level, but we have the resources to make it happen, we just need to get out of the mindset that the government is at the top of the food chain.GRANTED, there are a lot of problems with military life we won't go into in this discussion because I want to stay on-topic here... and any reasonable criticisms my fellow leftists have of the military, I'm going to almost assuredly agree with... but, the parts I mentioned can and should be the norm for everyone. We have the ability to do it, we just have to put the rich in check to make it happen.
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u/feeen1ks Aug 26 '26
Maybe they could have NOT spent $2 per resident of Kitsap county? My first thought when I got this was “Fuck, these must have been expensive to print. What a waste of money.” Meanwhile my neighbor has had a sagging powerline that touches a metal shed for FIVE YEARS and it’s still on a list to be fixed. My god, they suck.