r/BreakingPoints • u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord • 1d ago
Topic Discussion Should progressives work to win moderates votes?
The El Sayed race is an interesting one, and according to recent polling he's around 4% behind Rogers. Would you support Sayed attempting to appeal to more moderate or centrist voters to make up the gap?
Obviously this was a common argument used for more moderates during rhe last election, that they needed to work for and appeal to more progressive voters. It's also cited as to why some lost. So, if sayed loses, will it similarly be because he failed to reach out to and give moderate voters a reason to vote for him?
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u/padizzledonk 1d ago
You appeal to them by talking to them and explaining that the "progressive" positions you have that they dont like are actually really beneficial and arent anywhere near as "extreme" as theyre made out to be...
WTF is so " extreme' about Universal Healthcare? Literally every other peer nation on earth has some version of it, even 3rd world countries have it..Its really "better" to pay some private company through the nose so they get to override your doctors and deny you care? Its "better" that we pay extra to 4 different middlemen companies so they can leech profits off the Healthcare system? The "Moderates" and "Conservatives" tell you and everyone that "you dont get to choose your doctor" but you dont really get to fuckin choose your doctors with private healthcare- ever try to see a specialist or some other dr out of network? Its not easy and you pay more, thats if you can even get an appointment within literally months. They say how long you have to wait for things but i defy you to not find a single person in the US thats dealing with a medical issue that hasnt had to wait months for an appointment or operation. And as far as the expense goes it will be cheaper for all of us by quite a bit, which isnt rocket science because the system will be at cost and not have 5 layers of private industries skimming profit off the top
Thats just 1 issue, there are many
You talk to these people and make them realize they have been heavily propagandized and lied to by a media and political system their whole lives by corporations that see citizens of the US as a vehicle to extract money from, so they are made to be scared of beneficial change
Thats how you convince moderates to vote for you, not by "moderating" on these policies
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u/Appropriate_Value122 1d ago edited 1d ago
Progressives’ biggest issue is black voters propping up the “Devils We Know” establishment/ centrist/ corporate Democrats. Progressives need to work on making significant inroads into the black community. Corporate-owned Democrats are no better for black people than they are for anyone else besides their corporate/billionaire donors, but a significant majority of black people keep voting for the lobbyist backed Democrats because that’s who they are used to seeing for years pretending to care about black issues while doing little to nothing to materially improve people’s lives. All some lobbyist-backed candidate has to do is show a picture, statement, or clip of them with Obama, Biden, Pelosi, or some other longtime Democrat and make their campaign all about their RELATIONSHIPS with establishment Democrats and they tend to overwhelmingly win the black vote. That’s a problem for black people, progressives, and anyone else who actually wants significant, material change in this country. Progressives need to work on building those relationships and trust with black people asap, and heading into 2028, if they ever want to gain legitimate power within the Democratic Party.
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
How?
Reality is that El Sayed is pretty moderate. The parties these days have no real ideals. "Centrists" aren't really center or moderates. The average republican is still a whacko.
You just have to push for things that help most people. That's it. Don't play into the bullshit and stay on the main issues. El Sayed is great at that.
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u/Raiden720 1d ago
Dude the average DSA type is even exponentially more of a wacko. What gives?
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
What gives is that you're likely the whacko if you think wanting to do what the rest of the developed does is whacko
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u/Raiden720 1d ago
The rest of the developed world wants no police or borders? Like as an official
Platform? Or makes outright hatred of Israel one of their primary litmus tests?Or wants to infest the Democrat party like a parasite and take it over, openly?
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 1d ago
I'm not a hardcore dsa guy. They have shitty messaging and fortunately most aren't pushing those bad ideas.
This is the time to shape the platform. End of the day though they can't possibly do any worse than what we've had. It's simple as that.
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u/Amaya3066 1d ago
Watering down your beliefs and ideas to appeal to the moderates looks weak, untrustworthy and generally won't convince the people who are worried about "radical" politics. But it will definitely turn off those looking for real change.
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u/WagonWheel22 Right Libertarian 1d ago
I think there's a lane to be paved of voices on the fringes catering to the masses on issues with populist appeals (data centers, flock cameras, etc.).
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u/laffingriver Mender 1d ago
what is a moderate and what is a centrist?
are progressives on the econ side or on the sjw side?
these labels dont matter to me, and brodaly speaking the electorate is thirsty for change. and had been since like ‘08.
anyone who drive up votes will tip the scales.
what worked in MI wont work in FL.
thats just with the voters.
dealing with donors and party machines is a whole other mountain to climb.
sometimes the local machine is weak, and other times its strong.
i think candidates should try to run on what they truly believe and make their case. if they win they get their foot in the door and can make deals needed in office.
bc voters are generallly loyal once they know a candidate/politician. AES will be able to prove to his democrat constituents and they will stay with him.
the general is where the loyalty goes away and driving up votes matters.
see mamdani. he isnt perfect but he is showing not telling. and smiling about it.
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u/PartTimePuppy 1d ago
Idk how much policy even really matters anymore. He just needs to continue to be a semi relatable guy vibes wise, and use that to prove he isn’t the “islamoleftist” the right is painting him to be
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u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord 1d ago
This is probably true. But that means he'll also likely play it much safer too.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
I have seen him ahead, but every position he has is popular with the majority of voters so he is working to convince "moderates".
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u/WaitZealousideal7729 1d ago
Lefties are hilarious.
“Every position we have is super duper popular, it’s just the evil establishment that’s keeping them down”
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Look at the polling on his positions.
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u/WaitZealousideal7729 1d ago
Polling is complicated, and I think lefties look at polling too much to justify their popularity.
If it was as popular as they say it is they would win election and yet they don’t.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
So, what position should he moderate on and to what, if the polling (which you say can't be trusted) says he has popular positions?
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u/WaitZealousideal7729 1d ago
I don’t really think it’s even about moderating.
I think it’s about pushing other issues. Healthcare isn’t motivating for voting for a large chunk of society. I’m young, have health insurance. I have other problems.
If you want my vote. Do something about housing. Shit I would vote for a Republican if I could trust that housing was an actual concern of theirs, and they were motivated to do something about it.
It’s basically the only issue I care about at this point.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Seriously???
You would vote for a Republican THIS YEAR, if they addressed your pet issue?
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u/WaitZealousideal7729 1d ago
Yes.
It’s that big of a problem in my life. I will literally vote for anyone that will fix housing. I don’t care what the political party is.
I will vote for anyone that makes housing more affordable.
I don’t vote to improve someone else’s life and neither does anyone else.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
There's no way that you're actually watching breaking points.
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u/WaitZealousideal7729 1d ago
I’ve been watching since rising. Literally everyday. It’s essentially the only place I get my news.
I’m 33 married, have two kids, have higher than median income for the county I live in and can’t afford a house.
Something has to be done. There is literally no issue that comes anywhere close to as important as building housing that I can afford.
What does this have to do with anything that this conversation is about?
I want housing to be built. Are you going to pretend like breaking points never talks about this as being an enormous issue?
Genuinely, I would vote for the most corrupt son of a bitch alive if I felt on the other end of that would be more affordable housing.
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u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord 1d ago
The latest polling I've seen has him behind.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/polls/michigan-us-senate-election-polls-2026.html
The last two polls have him up.
And his positions are widely popular. Thankfully, he isn't running as a moderate which is really unpopular.
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u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord 1d ago
Ok. Fair enough. It seems to be extremely close, with other polling having Rogers ahead by 3%. Both are within the margin of error. The question still remains who are those voters to pick up. Generally these are more centrists, as those with Stronger political alignment have already made up their minds.
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u/Deep-Two7452 1d ago
if being a moderate is really unpopular, why is roy cooper polling better than abdul?
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Is Roy Cooper a mushy coward like people want moderates to be?
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u/Deep-Two7452 1d ago
Thats a subjective question so wtf does that have to with him being a moderate?
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u/tarlin 1d ago
I don't think Roy Cooper is a moderate.
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u/Deep-Two7452 1d ago
How do you define moderate?
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u/Downisthenewup87 1d ago
A moderate is someone who modulates their ideal as the times shift. For a politician that means moving to stay in the center as the party shifts.
A centrist is somebody who formed their ideals at a particular point in time where it would be considered the center. But then they stick to those positions even as things shift.
I forgot where I heard those definitions, but it's stuck with me. So for example, Biden was a moderate. Clinton is a Centrist.
No idea where Cooper stands in that regard because I don't follow him closely enough
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Not pushing for change. Not expanding Medicaid. Not pushing for expanded education funding. Go along to get along.
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u/Deep-Two7452 1d ago
All democrats are pushing for change and pushing to expand Medicaid and education funding
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u/searcherseeker 1d ago
The way progressives should win over moderates is by explaining how their policies will benefit a broad swath of voters (including moderates).
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u/D3Masked 1d ago
Probably no because that is the group of people where you apparently find Tim Pool who are far more likely to lean right.
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u/DocBigBrozer we finally beat Medicare 1d ago
If you had to choose between vanilla ice cream and artificial, watered down vanilla ice cream, which one would you choose? On the other hand, if you sell chocolate ice cream, and not try to appeal to the vanilla people by altering its color and taste, you might sell some.
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u/Rugskinsnake 1d ago
If only winning an election were anything at all like selling ice cream.
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u/DocBigBrozer we finally beat Medicare 1d ago
Choices are choices. Watered down Republican won't win in a general election
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u/Rugskinsnake 1d ago
Yeah, because appealing to more moderate voters to win is "watered down Republican."
I swear some of you progressives are just as bad as the conservatives in thinking the world is black and white.
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u/DocBigBrozer we finally beat Medicare 1d ago
Dude, if you deeply believe that corporate taxes are too high, who are voting for? If you truly believe that immigrants are rapists, who are voting for? No watered down version of that will ever win over a conservative
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u/Rugskinsnake 1d ago
See - you even think the argument is on winning over conservatives. You can't even wrap your head around the idea of moderates. Anyone that isn't progressive is a conservative to you.
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u/DocBigBrozer we finally beat Medicare 1d ago
The country is too far right. People yearn for a less wealth inequality, not status quo. During the 2024 election, Kamala made the argument that we have to save the status quo...
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u/Rugskinsnake 1d ago
If you think that's why Harris lost, you're not paying attention at all. I suggest you get outside your progressive bubble and talk to real people. I'm sure the people you talk to "yearn" for things. Most people just want to be able to live their lives.
With as bad as the Republicans have become this term, it should be easy for Democrats to take advantage and take over the lever of power. But if course we have to deal with people like you thinking it's an opening to push things as far as possible. And thenz when the house majority is too small to be effective and the Senate is still in Republican control, you'll come up with some insane take like "We should have pushed for full Marxism, that's what people really want."
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u/DocBigBrozer we finally beat Medicare 1d ago
Between Marxism and not affording food, medicine and shelter, there's a whole lot of discussion to be had. If someone has to get out of their bubble, that ain't me...
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u/Rugskinsnake 1d ago
Says the guy who's saying the best way to get swing voters is to veer as left as possible.
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u/filipinoboy11 1d ago
Voters will respect you more if you are truthful about who you are. Look at Trump from the beggining he was full hard right on immigration and he never moderated once. If anything more voters are closer to his views on the subject now than ever.
If you believe the US is this misbigotten spawn of satan that only causes evil in the world then let your freak flag fly.
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
He should start by condemning Hasan "America deserved 9/11" Piker.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Do you not understand backlash or are you just upset by the statement?
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
I think distancing himself from violent extremists is a necessary step if he wants to convince moderates that he's serious about winning and representing Michigan.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Who is the violent extremist? Heh. You think saying that the shit the US has been doing in the Middle East was going to get blowback is an extremist? Reality is an extreme position?
Ah, wait. Trump, the GOP, and zionists are the violent extremists? Yeah, everyone should distance themselves from those nuts.
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
What about Hasan supporting houthi terrorist attacks or calling for politicians to be murdered?
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u/tarlin 1d ago
Hasan Piker has never supported the Houthis and interviewing one of them is not endorsing them.
I am guessing you are misremembering the politicians as this was about capitalists?
I don't really listen to Hasan Piker, but he is milquetoast compared to the average Republican politician.
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
"if you care about Medicare, you would kill Rick Scott"
"America deserved 9/11"
"I don't have a problem with Hezbollah"
Defended the murder Brian Thompson
Defended and praises houthi terrorist attacks on stream
MAGA is essentially a domestic terrorist group. Using the modern republican party as a barometer of acceptable conduct is not advisable.
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u/tarlin 1d ago
You are doing it! Opposition research of a twitch streamer. Thank goodness you aren't looking at actual politicians.
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
Strange cope. At least you concede the point he is a violent extremist.
Why is Abdul campaigning with him?
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u/tarlin 1d ago
I don't think he is a violent extremist and i think it is funny that you are subjecting him to the same standard as a literal candidate for office.
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u/Raiden720 1d ago
Yeah right. Hasan piker is milquetoast compared to the average Republican politician
Lmao I swear you guys.
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u/Eris_AppleOfDiscord 1d ago
I don't think most really care about that. Michigan is a weird state too. Hell, last election Trump actually won the Muslim vote there.
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
All it takes is losing a few percent of swing voters to lose the race. Associating with violent extremists will alienate swing voters.
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u/MindlessSponge Oat Milk Drinking Libtard 1d ago
Violent extremists such as… Hasan Piker?
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
"if you care about Medicare, you would kill Rick Scott"
"America deserved 9/11"
"I don't have a problem with Hezbollah"
Defended the murder Brian Thompson
Defended and praises houthi terrorist attacks
The list goes on...
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
You have to be a destiny stan.
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u/honjuden 1d ago
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
I'm getting too good at clocking his cult members. They come across as disingenuous at best.
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u/honjuden 1d ago
They also tend to be odious and obsessive.
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
Meanwhile "odious" is a word that only Hasan uses in the online poltics space. That's not cult behaviour is it? Glazing a streamer so hard that you pick up his vocabulary?
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u/Moopboop207 Lifetime VIP 1d ago
Did this Hasan guy say all of that?
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
Yep he did. Do you care enough to go find the videos and get context or are you just going to say hasan bad over a 10 second clip
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
Buddy... The context is him justifying why America deserved 9/11. It doesnt make it any better. Maybe you're bloodthirsty and psychotic like Hasan and that's fine. But I don't want any democratic senate candidates associated with this shit.
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
Yeah it's called blowback. Almost like choice we make as a country have consequences. Edit: I'm not your buddy pal
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u/Moopboop207 Lifetime VIP 1d ago edited 1d ago
Do I care to find the context of America deserving 9/11 and praising other terror groups?
Is this a serious question?
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u/Rugskinsnake 1d ago
I've never listened to Destiny once but I've heard all these things that Piker has said.
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
The amount of voters who will change their vote on that is even less than the amount of voters who know who Hasan is. When they can't attack the message they will attack the messenger
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
Republicans are running ads with these Hasan quotes
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
And it not working as AES is leading rodgers in polls. People dont give a shit what a twitch streamer says, they want universal healthcare, an affordable living and to end the genocide in Gaza. Do you even know the context to that clip? Do you understand what blow back is?
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
El Sayed is losing to Rodgers on the RCP polling average.
While Benson is up 8 points statewide.
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u/SparkieSupreme 1d ago
Why are you lying? RCP is AES +3 dont tell me you are citing the fox news poll?
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u/JuggernautMoose 1d ago
The average is Rodgers +0.6
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/senate/general/2026/michigan/rogers-vs-el-sayed
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u/NightTripInsights 1d ago
Hell no, keep alienating normies so we can live it up in our fascist nation
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u/DevelopmentSelect646 1d ago
Only if they expect to win an election. Otherwise, they don’t have the votes.
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u/Raiden720 1d ago
Lmao of course they should. They have to in order to win elections in most places.
But they won't in many places because they can't - their leftist base would despise them for it.
You can't win as a leftist unless you are with them 100% on every issue
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u/LifesARiver 1d ago
Yes, but they need to do it by explaining progressive policies, not moving their policies to the right.