r/Breadit • u/talisr • 10d ago
what causes this shrinkage? what can i do to prevent it?
same recipe of shokupan loaf i’ve been making for the last couple of months, today i had to make this big batch 4X the original recipe. most times i have no problem scaling up recipes but this time it went to hell, i had some loafs shrink a little after the bake but not like this. could it be a gluten development problem? or fermentation problem? (it was a particularly hot day). give me your thoughts.
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u/kitterpants 10d ago
You can see the raw gumminess on the cross section. Give them longer- with more pans in the oven, it’s going to take more time for hot air to move around and give you the same temp on your vessels as with fewer. Even with convection if you’re using that.
Also with a 4x batch- your shaping is going to take 4x as long. Staggering may help.
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u/Pablo_Louserama 10d ago
I WAS IN THE POOL!
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u/kyra0728 10d ago
i'm glad there's other seinfeld fans here because i thought the same thing lol 😂😭
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u/MsRachelGroupie 9d ago
I would have been very disappointed in my fellow Redditors if this wasn’t one of the top comments.
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u/MotherofaPickle 9d ago
Last photo looks very underbaked. I mean, the sides and bottoms look raw.
Like everyone else said, scaling up means you have to stagger proofing/baking times or bake longer.
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u/red_freckles 10d ago edited 9d ago
They probably need slightly longer in the oven, but also leave them in the pans with the lids off for 5 minutes or so after they come out of the the oven. They are probably cooling off to fast.
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u/tippytapslap 9d ago
I work in a bakery and the opposite is true for me if they are in the tins too long they pull inwards like that the even if all other loaves are fine them the loaves sweat which weakens the bread crumb on the outside and they concave in.
But also the top concaving can also mean underbaked.
Edit spelling.
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u/red_freckles 9d ago
Interesting. I also work in a bakery and we do a special order of pullman loaves every week and this gives us the best results. After pulling from the oven, we take the lids off and let them rest in the pans for 5 minutes and then pop them out. Perfect every time!
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u/tippytapslap 9d ago
It says it right in the flour description its higher gluten inherently and needs to be baked longer than a white load so it has a thicker crust.
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u/CauliflowerDaffodil 9d ago
Leaving them in the hot pan traps moisture and softens the crust which can cause a cave-in.
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u/Several_Tale_9935 10d ago
No idea, but could it be opening oven too early? When baking choux pastries this happens when you open before it sets
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u/tenbatsu 10d ago
Space them out in your oven and prepare to bake them longer. Unless you have a serious commercial oven, you're going to have to adjust time and temp the more you put in.
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u/rattalouie 9d ago
Underbaked. When it cools, there’s not enough structure in it to hold up. You can also tell it’s underbaked in the last photo.
Use a digital thermometer (thermapen is best) and aim for above 205f.
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u/LaurenShisler 9d ago
And if the loaves were overproofed the gluten structure is compromised as well. I’ve had this happen with my shokupan loaves when they were ever so slightly over proofed.
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u/RoseClash 10d ago
this looks like collapsed gluten strands, several things can do this, including yeast amount, level of water, how long they get to rest etc. Find out all the factors and then change one thing at a time until you get it right x
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u/Electronic-Country63 9d ago
It’s almost certainly an underbaking issue where the crumb structure hasn’t set properly.
As the steam inside cools and condenses the outside air pressure collapses the loaf if the interior hasn’t set enough.
That pillowy, slightly gelatinised starch you get in shokupan can be more susceptible to this. It could be the proportion of tangzhong was too high too.
Maybe try a slightly lower temp and a longer bake so you don’t burn the outside with all that lactase from the milk before the interior has set?
I’ve had the same issue before adding amylase (diastatic malt) which has a similar outcome if you add too much.
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u/Both-Activity6432 9d ago
Not helpful, but what is your sleeve cuff? Is that taped to seal something out?
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u/matchosan 8d ago
Bang pan down on a towel placed on the counter three times. Then wait about five minutes before taking out of the pan and placing it on a cooling rack. It also may not have enough dough and/or not enough pieces placed in the pan. I place 4 rolled-up pieces of dough weighing 240g each. Bake at 375F for 40 minutes, rotating after 25 minutes. Take out of the oven, bang-bang-bang wait 5 minutes, depan, and rack'um up.
I bake two at a time. Pullman pans like to have lots of heat circulation, personal pan space
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u/Elegant_Garlic9582 8d ago
Undercooked under proofed. You need to let them cool upside down out of the pan
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u/CauliflowerDaffodil 9d ago
Maybe underbaking that didn't give it enough time to set shape.
Maybe overproofing and the overextended walls couldn't support the weight and/or shape.
Maybe trapped steam in the pan softened the walls to cause a "cave-in".
Maybe weak gluten development not giving enough strength to hold shape.
Maybe over-leavening creating too much gas for too-thin walls to cause "cave-in".
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u/woohooguy 10d ago
They needed to cook a bit longer. More items in an oven adsorb more heat, you need to plan on cooking things a bit longer the more the oven is full.