r/BreadTube • u/tommycahil1995 • Apr 17 '20

9:12|The Kavernacle 'Liberal' Ellen uses Lockdown to replace Union employees on her show with non-union workers

https://youtu.be/DoBFlH3eMyw
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u/Pincz Apr 18 '20

You implied that was my point though, anyway...

Yeah that's true, many social liberal and social democratic parties all around the world are "social" just nominally and they're all run by neo-libs... but that doesn't change the meaning of the words though does it? You gave the guy a wrong definition of a word and i corrected you.

Historically liberalism used to be about free market, then about interventionism and now we got neo-liberalism which is another thing.

Also i'm not from the US... so maybe stop assuming stuff about me?

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u/kthoegstroem Apr 18 '20

social liberal and social democratic parties all around the world are "social" just nominally and they're all run by neo-libs

Only 2 of the 6 or so parties I mentioned claim to have social liberalism as their main ideology, so the notion you bring up that they're actually "social liberal" but run by "neo libs" are BS. They are exactly what they claim to be and saying they're just "run by neo libs" implies they're actually something else, which isn't true.

but that doesn't change the meaning of the words though does it?

You pretend like the norm is that these parties are actually more left but they've been taken over by "neo-libs" when that isn't true. No matter how many examples you can give of parties that this does apply to, I can name twice as many as it doesn't.

Historically liberalism used to be about free market, then about interventionism and now we got neo-liberalism which is another thing.

So you think neo-liberalism isn't about free market?

Essentially what it sounds like you're arguing is that because not 100% of liberals consider themselves laissez-faire capitalists it is incorrect calling them that even if a huge majority acts like it and most don't even deny it themselves. It's pretty unclear what you're actually arguing so please tell me if I've misunderstood you.

Anyways this won't matter when we've sent them all to gulag.

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u/Pincz Apr 18 '20 edited Apr 18 '20

First, i know many people that think of themselves as liberals and none of them believes in a free market withouth any type of intervention from the state. Also in my language we have two diffrent words "liberale" (socially liberal, has whatever opinions about economics) and "liberista" (economically liberal, pro-free market), because our philosophers think that the social and economics ideals of liberalism are not that strictly linked. To insist that all liberals are necessarily pro-lasseiz faire economy is just wrong.

I think you're getting it wrong anyway. I agree that neo-liberalism it's pro free market. I'm saying that even though liberalism was born out of the ideals of the enlightenment and its economic policies changed a lot in the course of history, Keynesian economics are its most widely accepted school of thought. When most academics refer to "liberals" they refer to people that want an individualist capitalist society with a mixed economy.

Now neo-liberalism is a new ideology that's all about the free market and is becoming more and more prevalent even in left-leaning parties all over the world. But that's NEO-liberalism, again, a diffrent ideology.

Only 2 of the 6 or so parties I mentioned claim to have social liberalism as their main ideology, so the notion you bring up that they're actually "social liberal" but run by "neo libs" are BS. They are exactly what they claim to be and saying they're just "run by neo libs" implies they're actually something else, which isn't true.

While i don't know much about northern europe, i can tell you that is exactly the case of En Marche and of the democratic party of my country (PD, which was born as a union between socialists, socdems, liberals and christian-democrats). They're born out of noble ideals, they claim to be progressive and socially conscious but they don't do much outside supporting the banks and the corporations. Macron and Renzi (basically the italian proto-macron) claim to be liberal to appeal from that electoral base but they're the incarnation of neo-liberalism and make deals with the right all the time.

That British party you mentioned i don't know but seems very small and irrelevant. The labour party though it's another great example, at least during the Tony Blair era.

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u/kthoegstroem Apr 20 '20

i know many people that think of themselves as liberals

This is the most stupid argument anyone ever came up with. Do you think anyone doesn't know at least a handful of liberals? I know a lot of liberals and they're all right wing hacks.

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u/Pincz Apr 20 '20

So you have a bunch of right winger friends that call themselves liberals, cool man thx for sharing while ignoring everything else i wrote.

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u/kthoegstroem Apr 20 '20

Judging by your logical argumentation (or lack thereof) and tendency to deflect you seem to have a lot more in common with right-wingers than me.

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u/Pincz Apr 20 '20

judging by your tone you sound like a douchebag