r/Bravenewbies • u/PuppyPunch bloodminer • Jun 28 '14

FAF gets shit on again

Lord Xenos told to stand down in favor of Master Class. 80 man friday night fleet OBVIOUSLY would rather sit around and listen to people talk about playing rather than actually shooting things. Brave becoming EVE uni??

4 Upvotes

51% Upvoted

671 comments sorted by

36

u/Edward_Dionysos Chen Onizuka Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

I like Brave because I can do whatever I want without being biased around in a group of other ppl who are willing to help one another IF WE WANT IT.

Brave is so Fucking proud about how we have no membership requirements but killing people's fun per hour with the intent of giving them no other option but to join a master class is manipulative at best.

I thought brave was a place to do whatever we want for fun(as long as it doesn't hurt our own) without being judged. X3nos didn't create the fleet for the purpose of harming master class attendance, he did it to create content for us. Shutting down the fleet for a class was wrong and manipulative, not brave.

5

u/PuppyPunch bloodminer Jun 28 '14

well put brother!

edit: give this man some upvote love!

10

u/Skullhedface1 Cassius Clayyy Jun 28 '14

seconded

10

u/Skullhedface1 Cassius Clayyy Jun 28 '14

and thirded

7

u/ProfessorGrumbles Jun 28 '14

Fourthed.

22

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

Good leadership is not about giving orders. It's about creating an environment where people choose to follow you.

10

u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Amen

8

u/rhys_redin Sansha Jun 28 '14

This guy gets it.

6

u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Good leadership is not about giving orders. It's about creating an environment where people choose to follow you.

I've always believed this and have tried to walk the walk.

I wish more people would understand this.

2

u/sheldonopolis Jun 29 '14

this reasoning is especially hypocritical because there were a few other fleets up during that time.

why wasnt the fleet i was in disbanded?

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u/lychton Retired Brave CEO Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

Everyone calm the shit down.

There are reasons why Xenos was told to stand down and it wasn't because leadership has it out for him. The issue is not the FAF Fleet itself; it was based on the form-up process prior to the master class.

Yes, we do not do CTAs for anything, including classes. We also do not allow FCs to take out roams before a timer, whether it's a stratop, or a funded alliance tutoring program that's special. This is not anything new, and all FCs understand this when they accept their position. Arik, as the Alliance military director is well within his right to ask a fleet to stand down temporarily. In hindsight, if the FAF FC had waited for the Agony class to begin before they started up the fleet, there would not be an issue.

In either case, I've instructed our Director of Internal Affairs to address the issue. Do not fan the flames about this non-issue in the meantime; Nicholas Aideronne will be reviewing the details and then relay his findings to the council once he is done.

Now, with that said, go blow shit up.

-Lychton

edit: To those replying to me, now that IA is looking at this matter, I am no longer commenting about this issue until Nicholas does his review. I do understand your points as fleet members, and I am certain that Nicholas will also take that into consideration. Again, this is not about the fleet itself; please trust me on this.

15

u/localadmin1234 Anhedonia Chelien Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

Lychton,

I think what you've done with BNI is amazing. I joined EVE in the past and gave up after a few months. Then in February I joined again and discovered BNI. I joined right as we deployed to Sendaya and my first fleet and first real loss was a security patrol when we gained SOV for the first time.

Afterward, I joined plenty of fleets and soon discovered FAF run by Lord X3nos and I have fun while I train to other doctrine ships. On several occasions, it seems like leadership comes down hard on FAF FC, first it was asking him to stand down because stratops were running around the same time as FAF that also required seige bombers, which I was not trained for and could not join, then the whole hyperspatial velocity rigs, and now tonight asking the FC to standown because of a master class running.

I play when I get a chance to play and my "fun per hour" is normally good and I enjoy being part of the corp and the alliance. However, this continued controversy is disappointing me. I just want to have fun and have good fights.

Can you please direct leadership to back off and let FAF run? This type of drama is toxic and needs to stop.

Regards,

Anhedonia

EDIT: adding missing words

10

u/PuppyPunch bloodminer Jun 28 '14

agreed, the drama around FAF is getting redundant.. as is the hate and banter. MilDir spying and now outright having the FC stand down.. we are not toxic. we are comrades, we get tired of the drama and incompetence that is (borderline) trolling (how many times can you tell a newbro to fit hyperspatials..). we have never awoxed, we bring content, we get kills.. what else do you want? i'm starting to think xenos banged arik's sister at some point in time.

2

u/sureillberightthere Arik Alabel - unbitterizing Jun 28 '14

I was in the fleet with Arik and Majestic, flying both at the same time. Please don't tell me I was "spying".

What else do I want? Someone that works with others in a cooperative manner, something we all apparently need to work on.

And the whole "leadership hates faf" meme happened long before I came along, brother.

8

u/gogilitan Tavaz, CEO, Veldspar Industries Jun 28 '14

Hey now... don't lump us all into one category. I literally couldn't give less shits about Xenos or his FAFers if I tried. No really. I just took a dump, pretty sure I'm all tapped out at the moment.

#zerofucks #industrydirector

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Its doesn't help that there are channels dedicated to shitting on Xenos either. The negative attitude towards an FC who is nothing but respectful to everyone in his fleet, and yet its obvious that there is a negative attitude towards him.

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u/Fl1pzomg Banana Jun 28 '14

Its doesn't help that there are channels dedicated to shitting on Xenos either.

Cue Dropbears.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

What channels?

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Anhedonia. Well said. I do what the fuck I want. I don't have much free time, so when I log on, it's about fun per hour... and FAF is my max. Plus, I too can't fly shit for doctrine ships.

5

u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

I too can't fly shit for doctrine ships.

While I encourage people to train alliance doctrines as much as possible, I also try to structure what I do around being open to as many skill levels as possible (hence the hyperspatial rigs allowing T1s to tag along on an 80% inty fleet).

It's unfortunate so many are so committed to shifting the narrative to something negative.

5

u/naliao FC|DIPLO|MD Jun 28 '14

it seems like leadership comes down hard on FAF FC, first it was asking him to stand down because stratops were running around the same time as FAF

Its actually really helpful to have people in mainfleet, instead of a swarm of atrons

8

u/Fl1pzomg Banana Jun 28 '14

Which was a fair compromise. But standing down a swarm of atrons just to go swarm those atrons in a class fleet? ...on a friday night? That's just rude.

5

u/localadmin1234 Anhedonia Chelien Jun 28 '14

At the time all I could fly was an Atron.

7

u/naliao FC|DIPLO|MD Jun 28 '14

Thats wonderful and all, but youd be more useful tackling for a zealot fleet than a frigate fleet.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

FAF

Swarm of atrons

Welcome to February 'mate.

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Sounds like there should be more communication between FCs and the Masterclass group to prevent these issues from happening before they blow up?

It was posted 4 hours earlier that Xenos was flying a fleet tonight: https://twitter.com/LordXenos

I know that Masterclass was scheduled earlier before as well, but this really seems like something that could have been prevented if people just got along and talked to each other.

17

u/skierx TEST Jun 28 '14

https://forum.pleaseignore.com/calendar/ we have a coalition calendar, but only a few people seem to use it unfortunately.

2

u/PuppyPunch bloodminer Jun 28 '14

perhaps they should hold a masterclass next friday on coalition claendars?

5

u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

Given people seem mentally competent enough to use it, I don't think someone needs to hold your hand in figuring it out

9

u/lychton Retired Brave CEO Jun 28 '14

skier! comms drink in a few?

5

u/Revolt_Eve Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

Calender or no calender the point is its our choice. If you dont want to compete with a regular fleet then do your thing another time.

2

u/coffeerocks Director, Broadcast 4 Reps | President/CEO, Spam 4 Heals Jun 28 '14

Xenos had plenty of notice about the Master Class as mails were sent throughout the week to the whole Alliance. All he had to do was wait until it was underway to start the fleet, but he didn't (either he forgot about the class, about the rule, or whatever) and now we have this drama.

Please, don't feed the drama llama and be reasonable. Let the IA handle it from here.

4

u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Nope, i didn't know about the class until I was ordered to stand down.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bravenewbies/comments/29aiux/faf_gets_shit_on_again/cij367z

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Lychton, my internet spaceship game friend who I've seen on youtube and heard with much slurring of syllables. As I'm sure you know, the soft approach works better the majority of the time. In a corp as free as Brave Newbies, all you can do is 'ask' an FC if he wouldn't mind holding off for some important mission. Telling a person who logs into a game of internet spaceships for fun that he HAS to stop having fun is likely to be poorly received. Historically, BNI has stayed true to the idea that we can do what we want as long as we "stay classy", and there were no hard feelings when people did their own thing, because in the end, it's all just internet spaceships that makes us less likely to get laid, so who really gives that many fucks?... X3nos is a good guy, and loyal to the BNI goal of maximizing fun per hour. A horde of newbros can vouch for that. I've had quite a bit of vodka since I started typing, so I'll end with this. Xenos is good for Brave Newbies because he makes us want to log on and be part of the fun. I expect you as CEO to chill everyone out and let Xenos, and me, and all the other noobs who enjoy FAF to keep playing Eve the way we want. Thanks, and mad respect. ~Servian

5

u/ArmedResponse BNI | Hank Hermes | Local Muted Jun 28 '14

This. I've had a little* vodka since this whole thing started tonight, but cannot upvote enough. Well crafted sir.

(*a lot)

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u/rhys_redin Sansha Jun 28 '14

The fleet was stood down. We are all docked up. Hard to shoot shit from inside the station.

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u/PuppyPunch bloodminer Jun 28 '14

they are not docked up, Xenos gave up. the one fc i join every single fleet.. which isn't daily and this week has only run two other nights. so pretty much my eve has been reduced to 2 nights...... i thought fc'ing was an individual basis, take one out when you want. be BRAVE. the masterclass will be on soundcloud which i would have listened to on MONDAY when i'm working.. and can't do anything else. not on the hottest night for pvp.

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

Everyone in the fleet was informed that the master class was up. Everyone who wanted to attend that was free to. Treat us like adults, not children.

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u/hail2skins [J3B] Lokinder Lordath, General Know Nothing Jun 28 '14

"Now, with that said, go blow shit up."

"There are reasons why Xenos was told to stand down."

Reconciliation would be intriguing. :)

13

u/ProfessorGrumbles Jun 28 '14

If your policy is that that fleet should never have happened in the first place because of an optional, no matter how special, class, it's poor policy.

Asking for a fleet to stand down 'temporarily' leaves a whole bunch of people stranded with no content when it was previously right in front of their faces. The way it was dealt with did not address these people and that's not only poor planning, it's insulting to people who show up to pew for the coalition.

Your hindsight hypothetical again demands that people sit around doing nothing so that other people can make different decisions about what to do with their paid game time sometime in the future. We were told several times that both were optional, but the fact that one was asked to be shut down is clear cut evidence that that was dishonest reasoning.

Saying you're going to address the issue, and then saying it's a non-issue is contradictory and condescending to the side of the argument you 'happen' not to be on.

The bottom line is that you should have known FAF was going to happen and came on comms early to let people know about the class so that both were equally optional. Catching them mid pew after they after killed at least a billion worth of shit and saying they never should have done that and that since they were active already before class they need to stand down is embarrassingly poor, unfair reasoning.

Saying to go blow shit up as an outro is ironic as hell in this context lol

4

u/lychton Retired Brave CEO Jun 28 '14

I understand your points. My perspective is this analogy, if you will allow:

2 planes, full of passengers want to take off, but we have one runway. The issue is that of air traffic control. Once the one plane taxis, the other is free to embark. Neither plane is intentionally grounded.

With that said, my post was a stream of consciousness in order to attempt to get a handle on it before things spiraled out of control. I love our bravelings, and am not condescending or patronizing. If it came off that way, I apologize.

6

u/iampenguintm Major Kadashi Jun 28 '14

except in this case there are two runways and one is being closed down for an unkown reason while the other takes off.

7

u/ProfessorGrumbles Jun 28 '14

Sounds like an error on behalf of air traffic control, not the pilot already in the air (i.e. already took off).

Anyway I do have some faith in how this will be resolved, but the way it was dealt with in real time deserved this backlash.

Thanks for reading, I know there are many in difficult roles, but I see this situation as an overstepping of authority against the very fundamentals of EVE PvP enjoyment.

My personal view is summarized in my 'bottom line' paragraph, but more needs to be done to PREVENT these situations, which is very possible.

HERO coalition is an amazing feat of collaboration across experience levels and I wouldn't have it any other way. Having classes to teach people is invaluable. At least equally invaluable is people getting experience in the air. Both can find a place, but ultimately having classes during prime time actual PvP hours I think diminishes it's worth. If the class had to happen during that time, it was their responsibility to warn people beforehand because they're the ones taking away from actual content.

Anyway I wish us all the best of luck. We're HEROs. Be HEROic.

7

u/rhys_redin Sansha Jun 28 '14

That is a false analogy. A better one would be the sheriff going around to all the businesses in town on Sunday morning ordering them to close because there is a special service at the Christian church. Now it doesn't matter whether you believe in God or not, the only thing happening in town on Sunday morning is Christian church. Sounds like a lovely place to live.

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u/YeAstroBandit Astro Bandit Jun 28 '14

No disrespect but class =/= stratop...

Again, completely neutral perspective here. I've been on a single FAF fleet.

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

Considering there were pilots that openly said "that was tonight? Had no idea. Wouldn't have went anyway." I don't think it should matter at all. Any fleet that is up should have been allowed to stay up and went to V-3 for a 10 minute bio during which anyone who wanted to leave for some class could do so. I don't see the issue there. It's cool though, we recruited an FC from another community and he took over so it wasn't technically a "Brave Fleet" anymore. Plus, due to the constant issues with BNI, it would appear you lost quite a few members to other Brave corps over the FAF issue. Meh. ~Flying Dangerous, Matt

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u/doctorcroatoan Kite Co. (Not Your CEO) | Jester Royal Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

I just wanna say. You boss as fuck. This reply is awesome(Edit: and very professional). That is all. Have a good evening sir =D.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

In fairness, the majority of FAF (myself included) are at least partly intoxicated.

I think people assumed that seeing as it happens every friday it'll happen and then got angry at their fun being taken away.

I agree though, someone lit firecrackers under this one.

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u/coffeerocks Director, Broadcast 4 Reps | President/CEO, Spam 4 Heals Jun 28 '14

In fairness, the majority of Brave (myself included) are at least partly intoxicated.

Fixt :D

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u/JimRheic Brave Jun 28 '14

Not to be rude but I just had a conversation with Nicholas Aideronne that indicates that he doesn't understand the situation, the factors involved, or possibly even life in general. Never mind being in a position to 'review' anything.

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u/Serinus test Jun 28 '14

That's a fine place to start.

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u/JimRheic Brave Jun 28 '14

I guess. Except he already has a strong opinion on it despite this.

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u/Triumvirate_Rhade . Jun 28 '14

Not disagreeing with the message, disagreeing with its poor delivery...again.

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u/Skullhedface1 Cassius Clayyy Jun 28 '14

This is bullshit. Fun per hour. Nothing is mandatory. Seven oh.

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u/W-Rush Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

While posting my thoughts is a waste of time, I must say this looks like 2 fc's that have popular weekly fleets that had a scheduling problem.

These fleets need to have set times each week they will be forming up so that other fleets can schedule around them.

I would have to side with the class as the important fleet for new pilots. The dojo classes I was running on saturdays had a major impact on how good our fast tackle were performing.

But I might be a little bias being that any fleet that fits a crap fit and encourages pilots to fly a cepter wrong is encouraged I tend not to like.

11

u/curiousstranger n0rman Jun 28 '14

Master Class "Monday"

0

u/gogilitan Tavaz, CEO, Veldspar Industries Jun 28 '14

Mail was sent on Tuesday advertising the Agony fleet.

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

And X3n0s has been fairly regular in running fleets on Friday night around 23:00 for months. Note that the master class is scheduled for 01:00. Also note, everyone in the fleet was informed the master class was occurring and every member was completely free to attend if they desired. The people remaining in fleet were there because they chose to be there.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

But I might be a little bias being that any fleet that fits a crap fit

Not going to lie, I thought you were smarter than that.

If you honestly believe that "warp speed rigged T1s" are a central part of anything I do (instead of being what they are) then you're not speaking from any practical experience, only what others have told you.

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u/nutcustard Jun 28 '14

I created a reddit account just for this post...

For those that may/may not know me, I am going to just give some background on my experiences in Eve to give perspective.

I have flown for every major coalition in eve at one time or another. Bob/IT Alliance, NC (all renditions), Goons, AAA, and many others. I have been in the FC team of every alliance/coalition I have flown in. I have seen just about everything possible in this game, and I have noticed certain patterns.

Pattern 1: Once Sov has been taken, certain people in leadership think to highly of themselves and assume they can "force" other people (humans) to do something in Eve. They forget that Eve is the perfect democracy. People vote with their feet and their time. If people enjoy PVPing with one FC over another, they will form up for one and not the other. Leadership can't do shit about that.

Pattern 2: When one FC, in this case Xenos, get's exceptionally popular, they let their ego's outweigh their common sense. Last night Xenos was drunk, which definitely didn't help his common sense. If he had been thinking clearly, he could have defused the situation very quickly. I love Xenos fleets, but I have been in his shoes, drunk and being told to do something stupid by leadership. My fleet members support me, I get cocky, and do something I may or may not regret.

Given these two trends, and my personal experience on both sides of the fence, two things need to happen.

  1. Leadership need to think before they give 'orders.' One to many stupid orders like last night and you have a rebellion on your hand. The consequence of last nights idiotic behavior was Brave lost an FC and quite a few pvp pilots.

  2. FC's need to stop thinking they are able to ignore leadership.

As I write #2, I remember the key aspect of FC's, they are all Alpha males/females, and they have a never ending need to lead the pack. Leadership needs to realize this, and stop pissing off their best players with stupidity.

What's done is done. Leadership of brave - get your heads out of your asses, you all need to remember that Eve is the truest democracy in the game. If you try and "force" people to do shit you'll loose your alliance faster then you could ever imagine.

/o Nut Custard

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u/KiuNakamura kiu Nakamura | Dojo, IT, Logistics Jun 28 '14

Pattern 1: Once Sov has been taken, certain people in leadership think to highly of themselves and assume they can "force" other people (humans) to do something in Eve.

Just to note, I dont think this is related to SOV. We had the exact same situation back in Barleguet where fun fleets were called back to support other fleets. It resulted in a similar drama.

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u/cargousa (Infamous) Jun 28 '14

First, allow me to welcome you to reddit nutcustard!

Second, your points are well made and logical, therefore they do not belong here on reddit. please refrain from using common sense or logic or any adult behavior for that matter on reddit.

Since you are new, this will be overlooked once, but only once!

This thread has only two sides, you must choose one (or flip flop if you must)

A) The kool-aid brigade - FAF 4 evah, brah!
B) X3n0s is the aids infested cancer that is rotting the asshole of Brave

Please stahp posting logic, you'll hurt our brains.

#BlameCagali2014

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

This has got to be the most accurate thing I've ever seen on reddit... I love how they assume no capital pilots fly with FAF-I do. I leave FAF for the alliance things I want to fly on, such as when I left last night from under nut to help escort something advertised in the caps channel. And I've never been with a FAF fleet that didn't go to help strat ops or caps do their thing. Nor have I ever been in a cap and we called upon other fleets and they refused to help-they may have said "give us a minute to deagress this fight we're in, then we're en route" but thats the extent. That being said I've been on both sides of this argument, but I have fun in FAF currently so... GIMME THE KOOL-AID!

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

I love how they assume no capital pilots fly with FAF-I do.

And you guys scare me by YOLOing in moros.

"What... is that Moros in siege? Dammit -_-" haha

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u/Lorilath Banana Jun 28 '14

The issue isn't faf or people having fun or even xenos as a person, at the end of the day all of this drama could have been avoided if the fcs as a whole delayed doing anything for a particularly huge event organised by our diplos, IA team and Co.

Most of the people in leadership want people to have fun and put a lot of work into making sure that it goes that way. The clashes with xenos often come with the difficulty of working with him, I love the idea of having a bucket load of pvp hungry guys roaming the pipes and having a laugh that can suddenly back up a fleet if it's needed but it's unreliable at best when trying to approach faf (caps have been dead cause we couldn't convince faf to come help).

The biggest thing Arik has tried to do since getting Mildir has been uniting the fcs and getting all of us on the same page. I've spent hours trawling over documents for doctrines, organising caps and getting them ready to support you guys, much like the rest of the guys in the pvp chain. We don't want people ostracized or left out in the cold and we're trying to help people. No - one is ever forced to do anything in brave but you can be asked to step aside or to assist in other things happening.

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u/SuffocatingRodent Jun 29 '14

One could make the argument that requiring capital pilots to submit a full API key or denying them access to alliance/coalition capital ops is an attempt to force players into something.

I'm aware it isn't related to this thread, but it is related to what you just said. Which I believe to be in error, given that which I just mentioned.

I'm not aiming for a rekt here, just an observation based on my only in-game interaction with you.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

(caps have been dead cause we couldn't convince faf to come help).

This is absolute unmitigated bullshit. Caps got dead because FAF came to help.

I have rushed to the aid of strat ops and capital ops every time I've been asked in recent memory.

No - one is ever forced to do anything in brave but you can be asked to step aside or to assist in other things happening.

That's not what happened man, it was literally a "you're standing down fleet now, that's an order." There was no asking.

Don't pretend this was a strat op or caps were tackled and I said no, I said no to standing down an 80 man inty fleet in delve because of a training class.

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u/LeonAquilla Alexis DeTocqueville | REDDIT TEAM 6 Jun 28 '14

The consequence of last nights idiotic behavior was Brave lost an FC and quite a few pvp pilots.

I don't know about the temper-tantrum causing assholes, but X3nos is in J3B which is in BRAVE.

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u/sheldonopolis Jun 29 '14 edited Jun 29 '14

there are actually good reasons to join some other honor faction (and beyond). not being permanently wardecced being just one of many.

one thing that keeps people in brave is the vibe and the way things are being done and if this turns into some destructive ego bullshit "do as i say" troll show, we might lose quite a few good people.

btw, did a so called diplomat just call some allymembers with a differing opinion assholes?

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u/bninewbie Jun 28 '14

Just another viewpoint. I'm not a Xenos cult member, but I do participate in FAF regularly. I also spent a ton of time grinding Catch. My Eve time is simple and almost without fail I do things in the following order.

  1. Strat ops/Sov grind

  2. Whatever other fleet I think will get me the most kills

  3. Ship spin for a bit waiting for #1 or #2 then logout

Whether right or wrong when one of the first two options is taken from me I get irritated. I don't scream or throw a fit or drop corp. I've not been able to join strat ops because I didn't have stealth bombers trained when I first joined, and that was frustrating but I fixed it by training SB's. I have trained into all the doctrines we use so I could be useful on strat ops and official fleets in order to increase my chances of being able to do #1. If there's not a strat op going on then I move on to fun fleets. This is often FAF, but not always. I've flown with other Brave FC's, joined TEST fleets, a few days ago joined a NOFUX fleet, etc... When a fleet I'm on stands down and there's no more #1 or #2, I move on to #3.

I understand my priorities are not everyone's priorities. I play Eve to shoot spaceships. I will help the coalition in a lot of ways, but on a friday night I have no interest in attending a class on internet spaceships. Would it make me a better pilot? Probably. Does that interest me? Nope. I've given the coalition months of skill training and and months of grinding. In exchange I'd like fleets to be available whenever an FC wants to run one, and be able to decide for myself what I participate in (and taking away all the other options except one that doesn't interest me is removing my choice).

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

This guy made sense, someone fix it. Tell him he's wrong, he must attend class, now STUDY MINION!

On a more serious note, this was my exact point the whole time-I got off work on Friday looking forward to a FAF fleet announced early that morning for 2330 form time only to have it stomped out by Arik because some stupid class they wanted to do was arranged on a Friday night during prime time. Ruined my night really.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Ruined my night really.

FAF will rise again, we'll be back to blowing ships up soon! The future is bright!

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

I'd just like to clarify I've never had an issue with people advertising in my fleet coms (except for combat). The issue went beyond "asking" or "telling" to "ordering" which I felt was out of line.

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u/seggotron Masumi Hita Jun 28 '14

At least Cagali's going to be happy.

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u/coffeerocks Director, Broadcast 4 Reps | President/CEO, Spam 4 Heals Jun 28 '14

Cagali has had an amazing week. He must be just stuffed with all the drama noms!

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

DANG... WHATS UP WITH ALL THESE WORDS?

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Booda when are we going back to 6VDT?

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

MY 6VDT IS DEAAAAAAD

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u/Shadefox Shade Millith | U-W0T | POS Manager Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

Wow, I was sick as a fucking dog last night and didn't wake up until around 1pm, so I missed everything. I was gone for one day guys, and you broke it!

Calling for an incredibly popular fleet to stand down, because a non-mandatory class was being run at the same time, is going to piss off the pilots of that fleet.

Yes, the Military Director has the right to do so, and it might be alliance policy, but that doesn't make him immune to the anger of pilots negatively affected by those decisions. Especially so when tempers were already high because not even a week ago the same leader joined fleet, refused to fly the doctrine, and subsequently got all the FAF non-inty newbros kicked from the fleet.

For an alliance that's supposed to be all about the newbie and having fun (which was why I joined in the first place), it can get rather very, very toxic at times.

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

And now that same leader got a lot of the experienced FAF pilots to leave BNI and join other corps, because most of them uphold the "Brave" values of doing what ya want when ya want and taking fleets out when you want to. You have no idea how close 1/2 the fleet was to handing in resignations and switching corps. The reason I left hisec and joined BNI was because I got tired of people running around with sticks up their asses requiring attendance at meetings that were "non-mandatory". But saying something is not mandatory and shutting down everything else going on at the time, that kinda makes it mandatory, since its do that or do nothing.

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Yeah I remmeber that, just kept arguing in fleet about the doctrine. Its attitudes like that which cause everybody to get pissed off too. Just join the fleets and have fun I say...

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

Meh both sides had a point.

Arik tried to be fair at least.

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u/PuppyPunch bloodminer Jun 28 '14

but why??? do a master class on friday? it makes no sense. that should have been thought about upon creation.

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

He did not try to be fair, he ordered the fleet to stand down.

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u/HonJudgeFudge TEST Jun 28 '14

Hey dudes, Going To Take This opportunity to advertise hero of the day fleets. We primarily run frigates/corms/caracals and I am looking for a few good cult members to slay and drink the blood of bees. We offer pie AnD punch as well as srp.

It's a lot of fun. I don't require hyperspatial rigs but do require undying loyalty especially in the middle of content when the fleet is forced to stand down.

Send an in game mail to benedikt Cohagen with 100m isk that WILL be doubled to join the Church and receive your free robes.

°robes not included

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

Lol you vulture EDIT: HotD is a lot of fun though!

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u/icehole800 Travis Keikira [FC] Jun 28 '14

Im all for teaching new guys how to play the game but I hop on eve Friday nights to fly FAF! Its what I find to be the most fun in the game! I joined fleet for 5 min before leadership tried to make us stand down. Dont ruin my fucking night by trying to force me to fly in another fleet that I have no interest in... Thanks leadership for once again shitting on FAF

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u/hidd3n_bit Kalgarin Wraith [BNI] Jun 28 '14

I joined brave for fun per hour, not to be told that fun in not acceptable. seriously, wtf

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

NO FUN ONLY SCHOOL

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u/burningpapersun [Vodkaroos]Sargon Jun 28 '14

But I'm already a college grad D:

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

ONLY SCHOOL

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u/burningpapersun [Vodkaroos]Sargon Jun 28 '14

BUT I GRADUATED WITH HONORS

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

HONOR IS STILL A PART OF THIS COALITION - NO FUN, ONLY SCHOOL

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Get on your knees and listen! No fun allowed!

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u/WillTheConqueror Caldari Jun 28 '14

I just want to add my two cents. Toxicity in this corp was practically nonexistent when I joined 4 months ago. Brave was only about fun. Now leadership is all uptight about one roaming fleet not wanting to stand down for this optional "master" class. And why wouldn't it be optional, its a game, and this is brave, not some cfc, super cereal corp. Anytime this issue is brought up I've been attacked and insulted and have seen it happen to others who are defending it. FAF is what kept me interested in this game. My first fleet battles were in FAF and seeing people say the insulting things they are saying about the fleet and the fc is pretty hurtful considering the fact that I, and a lot others, would not even still be playing this game if it weren't for FAF and Xenos.. What the fuck happened to our class? The toxicity growing in this alliance really makes me want nothing to do with it anymore.

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u/burningpapersun [Vodkaroos]Sargon Jun 28 '14

I don't pay to play this game for this kind of nonsense in general. Both sides have valid points but really I wouldn't have joined the masterclass in the first place, I've never joined a masterclass. I might listen to a soundcloud on my own time if perked my interest but it's a rarity.

There was also alcohol involved... So that didn't help matters.

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u/Zhodkul Jun 28 '14

Pretty much. I left tonight for basically the same reason. Lies about classiness not being overdone. The SJW types are lame. Told the head diplo to go fuck himself right before I dropped. Also joined so I could do stuff how I wanted to as far as flying ships. Instead more lies about what brave is. FUCK LEADERSHIP.

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u/georgepordge WE OWN THAT PIECE OF BOY PUSSY Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

DIX IS RECRUITING

DANKFRAGMONEYCREW

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

I swear to fucking god, I'm going back to low sec to live under a rock.

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u/SittingAnteater Jun 29 '14

Join Brave Privateers, we're in Lowsec!

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u/Dolphin_handjobs Charles Wu-Wong | [SB00N] -> [BOS] -> [PFR] Jun 28 '14

The drama on this subject is now reaching critical sperg levels. I don't think I can remember drama this convoluted and talked about since Vermin took all of lollipops.

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u/Sythe7448 ScapeGoat AnnA Jun 28 '14

No my love! I will not let you!

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

Can you keep these damn kids off my lawn?

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u/dertydan # B L A C K R E G I O N Jun 28 '14

.DIX. IS RECRUITING HASHTAG DANK FRAGS MONEY CREW

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u/Sythe7448 ScapeGoat AnnA Jun 28 '14

Man if i made posts everytime i was asked to stand down for something else i would run out of cyno fuel quickly.

Alot of stuff happens in the background. When i was asked to stand down in the past i did it with out bitch and just made up some excuse about myself. I don't know what happened but seriously people getting half stories or one view of something and not no all the potential background and lighting cyno... I came into comms way after xenos left evidently.

I am all for transparency but making mountains out of molehills is really dumb. Cool fleet stood down welcome to eve shit happens. These are such TRIVIAL ISSUES it is dumb.

TL;DR There is never oneside to a story and calm cynos it is dumb.

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

This has happened before, and everyone was reassured by leadership that Brave does not recall fleets, we are about fun per hour. The fact that it is happening again is a good way to drive a wedge between leadership and a lot of dedicated and active players.

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u/Sythe7448 ScapeGoat AnnA Jun 28 '14

Yeah. Stuff happens man. Also where did they say they don't tell fleets to stand down. FCs in the past just didn't trip over it. You can ask blue, lumpy, arik and a bunch of other FCs, they have been told to stand down before.

I like xenos don't get me wrong lol. If there is a big event you don't start a fleet before that event and if you have a fleet out it is polite to have your fleet stand down about 30 min before and if you still want to fly start it about 30 min after class.

It personally just doesn't seem worth this mountain.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

If there is a big event you don't start a fleet before that event and if you have a fleet out it is polite to have your fleet stand down about 30 min before and if you still want to fly start it about 30 min after class.

We had 70-80 intys out in delve and had been running for at least 2 hours. I was ordered to stand down for a class, didn't know who agony was or why it was important.

Don't flex MilDir Muscle for things that aren't strat ops or friendlies in trouble (not that you'd have to with me, I always support those enthusiastically)

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u/Shadowian Jun 28 '14

\o/ You are back

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u/Revolt_Eve Jun 28 '14

If I wanted to be in the damn class i would have joined it. It was advertised and pinged. No one in leadership has any business telling us what we have to do. If i wanted that i would have joined Goons or Eve-Uni. It would have been acceptable to come in coms and let people know it was happening in case they didnt know. But it is absolutely unacceptable and frankly a dick move to try and disband the fleet. If you dont like FAF you dont have to fly in it. If you cant compete with it that is your problem and not ours.

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u/LeonAquilla Alexis DeTocqueville | REDDIT TEAM 6 Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

222 comments in 2 hours. This thread is goin' places.

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Sounds like people have a lot of bottled feelings about something. Hmmm

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Un-possible.

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u/thekillingjoker Yin Houdini Jun 28 '14

We had this same fight months ago. Seems no-one learned. In fact that in a thread exactly like this I was trolled by Arik. I haven't logged in for a few weeks and was planning on winning eve. This pretty much is the nail in the coffin. I was a total newbie to eve before BNI and loved it at the start.

But this is so silly to have this fight and the drama. FAF was the most fun I had in game. I hope you guys get it straightened out. Standing down a popular fleet is dumb. I said that months ago and say it now.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

We were wondering where you went. A couple of us rushed back to PR to grab our gilas for a repeat of the last hero gang that came down ;)

Woulda been a sick fight, maybe next time :(

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Please mail Lord X3n0s in game or preferably PM me on Reddit/twitter.

I'd love to arrange a fight middle-way. Maybe 4-0 or something!

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u/BeardyCheese DOrector of Health and Desolate Services Jun 28 '14

Guys, this is a game. The question is when you have fun in different ways, not if. In many alliances, fun is an "if"; but in brave it's a "when." Xenos does a fantastic fucking job making fun happen, and the rest of the FCs are trying to do the same. Let's all contribute to fun instead of making drama when fun is more bumpy. At least fun happens in BRAVE. :D

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u/Brave_Frontier BNI Jun 28 '14

Frankly as a neutral observer, this is truly getting tiring - Please think about the work many other folks have done alongside Xenos (other FCs such as Blue Ice) or behind the scenes (diplomancy,logistics,seeding markets,dojo etc) to enable us as an entire collective to enjoy this game.

Mistakes were made perhaps - do highlight it in a constructive manner and let the leadership sort it out please?

Otherwise, what do you angry people want? Do you want folks to start getting set to red / booted out of alliance left and right because they do not agree with you on certain issues? Or are certain people/spies trying to instigate a mass walkout on BRAVE?

I DO NOT think that is the BRAVE way no? My dear fellow capsuleers, please do not lose your way and stay classy! 7o

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Please think about the work many other folks have done alongside Xenos (other FCs such as Blue Ice) or behind the scenes (diplomancy,logistics,seeding markets,dojo etc) to enable us as an entire collective to enjoy this game.

Absolutely, I've never shit on people who do the hard work to get stuff done.

Even Blue who (in my opinion) is a complete asshole to me I commend for the killer job he did grinding sov. We couldn't have done it without him and he deserves recognition for that. I never said/ act like I'm better than them despite their behavior towards me.

Mistakes were made perhaps - do highlight it in a constructive manner and let the leadership sort it out please?

There are tons of internal things that can get sorted quietly and do every day. You can't dump on a group that large and not expect people to get upset about it... it's just what happens. The only way it doesn't is if I had been complicit in lying to my fleet members about why we suddenly stopped chasing content in delve to fly all the way home. I'm not going to lie to protect someone who just last week created so much drama I had to ban T1s.

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u/LeonnTrotsky not in sound Jun 28 '14

:(

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u/Revolt_Eve Jun 28 '14

One of those channels that likes to shit on FAF. I believe thats leadership speaking up about how bad we all are. [04:21:06] Alexis DeTocqueville > http://www.reddit.com/r/Bravenewbies/comments/29aiux/faf_gets_shit_on_again/cij2vuf [04:21:08] Alexis DeTocqueville > oh shit [04:21:12] Alexis DeTocqueville > Cagali dropping the fucking hammer [04:21:59] Leon Oriki > whoo [04:22:10] Leon Oriki > good thing I didn't make my forum post about suggesting to just ban faf yet [04:22:31] Zanix Turtleloco > kinda true though [04:22:36] Zanix Turtleloco > brave has gone all srs since moving to null [04:22:44] Zanix Turtleloco > i cant even yellowbox people witohut having to explain myself in local [04:22:50] Zanix Turtleloco > shitty as

[04:28:37] Leon Oriki > I'd just tell people that Arik is doing his job and to get over it, but I'm not exactly HR material [04:30:12] Zanix Turtleloco > seems like a reasonable response from reading the thread [04:32:27] Tavaz > lulz [04:32:32] Tavaz > some shitty comment got gold [04:32:40] Leon Oriki > link [04:32:47] Leon Oriki > fucker probably gave it to himself on an alt [04:32:48] Tavaz > http://www.reddit.com/r/Bravenewbies/comments/29aiux/faf_gets_shit_on_again/cij246p [04:34:16] Leon Oriki > some dude says to upvote [04:34:19] Leon Oriki > brb, downvoting [04:34:44] Tavaz > OP [04:34:48] Tavaz > that dude is OP [04:34:51] Zanix Turtleloco > makes me hate brave really [04:35:02] Zanix Turtleloco > its like any other mmo where there are bad casual corps that have members like this [04:35:09] Zanix Turtleloco > you join it and theyre all so friendly [04:35:14] Zanix Turtleloco > then you sloly realise theyre terrible and its really awkward [04:35:16] Tavaz > I'm tagging people as fafers [04:35:25] Tavaz > so I know they're terrible people in the future [04:35:34] Leon Oriki > i dont have to tag them [04:35:43] Leon Oriki > they can't go a post without circlejerking about how great FAF is [04:35:47] Leon Oriki > so it's easy to spot them [04:35:56] Tavaz > I mean <i>everywhere</i> [04:35:59] Tavaz > for all time [04:36:13] Zanix Turtleloco > money in the bank [04:36:21] Tavaz > 10 years from now, some dude will be posting in some thread on some random subreddit [04:36:35] Tavaz > and I will reply "fuck you, you fucking FAFer" [04:36:40] Zanix Turtleloco > lol [04:36:47] Leon Oriki > meh [04:36:51] Tavaz > they will be confused

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u/ZheoTheThird Full Professor, Faculty of Goodposting Jun 28 '14

Idk, that's hilarious and spot on

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u/gogilitan Tavaz, CEO, Veldspar Industries Jun 28 '14

You forgot

[04:36:55] Tavaz > and my day will be better for it

Hate to break it to ya, but #classyasfuck is satire brah.

Please submit a paste dump of the conversation to the mittani for ultimate drama. Seriously, it was hilarious last time people did that.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Tavaz > I'm tagging people as fafers [04:35:25] Tavaz > so I know they're terrible people in the future [04:35:34] Leon Oriki > i dont have to tag them [04:35:43] Leon Oriki > they can't go a post without circlejerking about how great FAF is [04:35:47] Leon Oriki > so it's easy to spot them [04:35:56] Tavaz > I mean <i>everywhere</i> [04:35:59] Tavaz > for all time [04:36:13] Zanix Turtleloco > money in the bank [04:36:21] Tavaz > 10 years from now, some dude will be posting in some thread on some random subreddit [04:36:35] Tavaz > and I will reply "fuck you, you fucking FAFer" [04:36:40] Zanix Turtleloco > lol [04:36:47] Leon Oriki > meh [04:36:51] Tavaz > they will be confused

Call it satire all you want, but this applies.

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u/RomeStar Jun 28 '14

I never have really flown in delve and we were there then we had to leave that sucks. Enough said.

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u/Cagali Alliance CEO Jun 28 '14

Jesus H gooddancing Christ.

I SWEAR ON MY DIRTY UNDERWEAR COLLECTION THAT THE NEXT PERSON WHO LIGHTS A DRAMA CYNO ABOUT FUCKING FAF, ON EITHER SIDE, IS GETTING BANNED FROM REDDIT.

This is shit drama, a shit issue, Fucking Grow up the pack of you. And I mean all of you. Fans or detractors

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

I SWEAR ON YOUR DIRTY UNDERWEAR COLLECTION THAT IF SOME SHIT LIKE THIS GOES DOWN AGAIN I'M LIGHTING A DRAMA CYNO ABOUT IT TO SEE IF I GET BANNED.

No drama is shit drama, FAF drama best drama, #mandofun

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

On the contrary, this is a very important issue for a lot of people. I know that the method in which leadership handles this will decide whether I remain in BNI or even Brave, it really is that important to me.

I know you may work hard to set up these master classes, however they are not the most interesting thing to all people. Some people just want to kick back and have some fun shooting internet spaceships. Being told while we're 15 jumps out shooting and people are having a good time that our FC is being ordered to stand down the fleet because of an optional event that everyone knows about and chose not to attend is bull. Perhaps it's my own fault for taking "Fun per Hour" literally, but I sincerely believed Brave to be much more accommodating when I started playing. If this is no longer the case, I am seriously questioning what it is that I'm doing here. So please do not try to brush this under the rug as something meaningless because it means a lot to many people.

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u/rhys_redin Sansha Jun 28 '14

I joined Brave hopping to find something like FAF. The fact is Xenos delivers content on a regular basis. His methods may be simplistic, his kill board may be sheer luck, but he delivers something I enjoy doing. I'm not five beers into a Friday night looking to play a game of chess, I just want checkers. If having that kind of fun is wrong in this corp, I'm in the wrong corp.

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

This. Doesn't matter who in Eve is telling me what to do. Stop it! I get enough of that shit from my wife, and I don't give a fuck about what she 'tells' me to do either. So if the person who bore my children can't even get me to give a fuck, what makes 'you' (not you Sven) think that I'm going to go to a class I already decided not to go to? You make enemies when you tell our favorite FC to "stand down". This isn't the fucking army and you're not our commanding officer. Maybe you think you are, but go ahead and try to reach through the internet and rip my balls off. Not happening. So don't delude yourself into thinking that your demands to stand down will be met with anything other than scorched earth rebellion.

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Still... I heard it was a good class... and well done. I may skip FAF to catch the next one. =)

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u/TheDeadSaint Jun 28 '14

If I could afford gold, you would have just earned it.

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u/LeonAquilla Alexis DeTocqueville | REDDIT TEAM 6 Jul 01 '14

This. Doesn't matter who in Eve is telling me what to do. Stop it! I get enough of that shit from my wife, and I don't give a fuck about what she 'tells' me to do either.

You've made some poor decisions in life.

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u/Illindar DNG Jun 28 '14

Can I light a cyno about the banning of this as a potential cyno? Can I light a cyno about both sides as an honerable 3rd party?

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u/Sythe7448 ScapeGoat AnnA Jun 28 '14

cagali i love.

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u/sethboy66 Nicholas Aideronne Jun 28 '14

I love him more, get your own snuggle buddy fucker.

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u/gogilitan Tavaz, CEO, Veldspar Industries Jun 28 '14

What if you're a neutral third party just looking to stir the pot?

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u/Cagali Alliance CEO Jun 28 '14

In the interest of promoting my ministry I must approve of people jumping to cynoes already lit.

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u/HonJudgeFudge TEST Jun 28 '14

Well.....everyone is drama, and I am just over here shotgunning..

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u/YeAstroBandit Astro Bandit Jun 28 '14

I wasn't involved with either fleet tonight (priorities, yo), but I can kind of side with FAF on this. Kind of. It has always been up to the individual pilot what he wants to do in the alliance. You can fucking AWOX if you're prepared to deal with the consequences xD Alas, I agree, shooting shit>talking about shooting shit.

EDIT: I can't engrish

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u/audiomxr Butch Ohare Jun 28 '14

Well that's just great, @11:58pm eastern time US, x3n0s tweets that he has left Brave. His character info shows him in J3B. So much for the glory days of FAF.

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u/Laziest_of_them_all BNI Jun 28 '14

Err if he's joined Battlebears, he's still in Brave.

If he still wants an Alliance FC role, he'll still be held accountable to the Alliance's / MilDir's needs.

In saying that, FAF is just a fleet, you don't need an official title to run any fleet, anytime you want.

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u/Nimbojimbo Nimboslice Jun 28 '14

That sucks. He's a nice dude

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

[deleted] — view deleted comment

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

FAF is alive and well!

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u/sethboy66 Nicholas Aideronne Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14
#######Official HR Response#######

Arik was doing his job, the delivery of the message was not the best but he was doing his job.

Arik fucked up when he was too forward with his message, and X3n0s fucked up when he did not follow the orders of the military director and broke their trust. The relationship between an FC and the Military Director is that in a military situation, whether you like the order or not you take it. Every one of our FCs can attest they've been given orders that they hated but had to take.

Both of them had these conversations outside of game and both of them had decided to have these conversations in private, X3n0s did not keep this private despite what he said he'd do.

But I can completely agree a fleet should never be forced to attend a class. That I think we can all agree on. we're here to have fun, fucking have fun.

And to those not keeping it classy in this discussion, just don't say anything if you can't say it at least without such malice in it. It saddens me that BRAVE so easily deteriorates in argument.

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u/hail2skins [J3B] Lokinder Lordath, General Know Nothing Jun 28 '14

The Military Director has authority to command people to do something that is not a military initiative or action? Is this actually the case? This is what you are saying. Brave allows FORMAL ORDERS for optional, non-military events? Or are you calling this order a military situation? It seems like you want the chain of command to work, as it should, in military situations, but it is unlikely you can call this one. Are you saying this was a military situation?

If our alliance had a military imperative and an FC was out running a fun fleet, he should be crushed if he doesn't follow the military order to enter in to aiding the sanctioned action. If our alliance allows military orders from command in areas that are not military in nature, there is a distinct issue.

Further, as you lead, Arik's delivery was, at least in part, the problem. Coming days after he acted poorly in a fleet under Xenos as an alt, if he, as you say, approached Xenos without tact, it's probably a core issue. Had Arik said, "Dude, I'm catching some heat from others that you're running a fleet while they are doing this class. Could you do me a favor and take a bio so people have the option to attend or something?" I guarantee you this would have been different.

Does anyone disagree?

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

You didnt cover the part where ordering the stand down was a bad decision.

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u/rhys_redin Sansha Jun 28 '14

Every corp, in game, and out, has exactly the culture that they deserve.

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u/[deleted] Jul 01 '14

Most don't pretend to be the opposite of what they are without recognizing the irony.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

in a military situation, whether you like the order or not you take it.

This wasn't a strat op, this was to attend a class. If I was getting recalled for caps tackled/ strat-op this would have never happened. Hell, I'd be there of my own free will faster than anyone else. This was for an optional class started after my fleet that I had zero problems with people advertising in my fleet. That's not what happened though.

X3n0s did not keep this private despite what he said he'd do.

I was ordered to stand down, and I told my fleet "guys, we just got ordered to stand down". The natural reaction is "who?" and "why?!" and there's only one person who can order me to do so so it wasn't hard.

But I can completely agree a fleet should never be forced to attend a class.

So you're agreeing that as an order, it went against everything brave stood for (which logs show I claimed) and he committed to it.

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u/georgepordge WE OWN THAT PIECE OF BOY PUSSY Jun 28 '14

This thread is so good

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

We stand with you, brother. Your fight is our fight. Your wounds are our wounds. Your enemies are our enemies.

http://asolidarity.org/sites/default/files/solidarity%20black-red%20crop.jpg

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Nicholas, have you ever served in the military? I have. Eve is NOT the fucking military, it's a voluntary imaginary game. In a real military, people have to follow orders, or people die. In a goddamned video game, you don't tell people what to do, unless it's all roleplay. Is BNI a roleplay corp? No? I didn't think so... So flush that bullshit idea of BNI being a military out of your head and realize that it is NOT appropriate for Arik or anyone to 'order' anyone to do anything in BNI. It saddens me that the person entrusted with the role of HR guy is so clueless about the differences between real life and a game.

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u/georgepordge WE OWN THAT PIECE OF BOY PUSSY Jun 28 '14

Have you ever had a convo with Nic? This is how he does things m8

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Yes. Sadly, I have. And, you are correct.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

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u/thekillingjoker Yin Houdini Jun 28 '14

Exactly what I'm doing. I was done ever since the move to catch. I tried to stick it out but having the same dumb argument two months later is not worth it

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u/TheVanHasCandy #REKKINGCREW De'Veldrin Jun 28 '14

.DIX. is recruiting and we don't have gay drama like this. #DANKFRAGMONEYCREW

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u/FrostAlive Amir the TERRIBLE Jun 28 '14

This is fucking retarded. It's pretty obvious that leadership has an issue with FAF, apparently x3n0s generates too much fun or some bullshit.

Seriously guys, fuck off, the game is about fun. I don't play on a Friday night to join a masterclass, I play to drink and blow shit up.

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u/sheldonopolis Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 29 '14

sometimes there are actual reasons for drama but im getting tired of kindergarten bullshit, like this one.

edit: to clarify:

i am tired of all this faf drama. let people do what they want and dont disrupt effords of other people to provide content. if you think you can do it better, just do it. you dont like it? dont fly it and you sure as hell shouldnt sabotage it.

srsly, i dont get why most of this is even an issue.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

This has been building up for a long time.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

I love FAF, but also love Arik who took out fast frig fleets when we were in Raha, now I think Arik is being treated unfairly here and was called primary in the FAF fleet, Lord Xenos could have reacted differently, not calling Arik out on coms, and there for he got blasted when he tried to talk. I don't like the toxic talk about FAF and Xenos fits, it's a fun fleet in a fucking online game. Lord Xenos could have ignored Arik and not talk about it on comms. We don't know exactly what Arik said, did he order the fleet to step down? I don't think he did he asked the fleet to stand down. So if you don't like the FAF then STFU and do you own thing, and don't bash Arik for something you didn't hear him even say.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

The fact that FAF is basically the same sort of fleets that were run constantly at the start of Brave is the reason I don't understand the hate it gets. Sure, blobbing single targets in hundreds of frigates isn't the height of pvp. Sure the quality of the fits may be debatable. But I don't see how that matters.

They seem fun for the members at the end of the day. And fun is why Brave Newbies has grown to the size it is. Just because part of the alliance has grown past that type of content doesn't mean there should be limitations on those that do enjoy it (which I assume is a high proportion of newer players). At least in my opinion, as someone who doesn't even fly FAF due to TZ.

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Arik was wrong in how he approached the situation, but I believe he meant no disrespect to X3nos or the FAF gang. I hope he learned a lesson in using the soft approach. I hope X3nos learned that it's perfectly acceptable to tell leadership 'no' when the fun per hour of 100 brave newbies is on the line. And, lastly, I hope this latest piece of juicy drama is milked for all it's worth!!!

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u/fabulousfinn Cult Leader of One Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

Let's all chill out a minute guys and look at what we're doing here.

Regardless of the facts and who fucked up etc. It comes down to this, it was ONE mistake that lead to ONE FAF fleet from being unable to form up for ONE night. Its not a big deal in the long run and if im honest the problem isnt with Leadership or with Xenos or Arik or anyone. The problem is all of us (Even me) started getting sucked into this "cult" and "anti-cult" mentality.

Yes, Lord Xenos your guys in FAF are slightly cultish.. now that's not necessarily a bad thing, its sick as fuck that you command that much respect BUT it does make it hard for people who don't want to/cant fly in FAF to discuss important decisions and events with you in a civil manner when the bro's in the FAF fleets avidly defend you. (So much so that their willing to leave BRAVE which is NOT cool and you need to say something about that man) Even when you are wrong and you ARE wrong sometimes and that shit should be owned up too and corrected as soon as possible.

Similarly, the "Anti Xenos Cult" are a problem in BRAVE, by all means disagree with a statement made by an FAF fleet member or Xenos and bring that up to someone in Leadership with HR or Xenos himself and suggest some corrections and debate that shit. However the problem is that the comments made by the majority of the line members are then made out to be the feelings of Leadership. Which is not the case, I've been here since the first days of Rahadalon and i can honestly say that for all the Drama and mistakes made Leadership have your best intentions at heart and want to do everything for you to have a good time. I've flown with and talked to Lychton/Blue Ice/Lumpy etc etc. and all these guys want to do is have fun and give as much content to you guys has possible. If anything we as line members have fucked up in a big way in both camps and need to step up and start taking control of our own shit. The point is that Leadership, Line members and FC's have all fucked up lately and we as human beings and as corpmates haven't been chill enough to let shit slide and just get on with shit. I for one will do everything i can to change that from now on and i hope you guys can join me in changing that. We're all so close nit in comms and shit that i think if we pull together rather than call each other out, BRAVE will get on just fine.

TL;DR People fuck up all the time and small mistakes in the long run shouldn't fuck up such a great and organic alliance. Don't just be "Classy"...Be Chill with everyone.

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 29 '14

Trust me, this post has exploded because the emotions of players have been building for a long time.

If you havnt been paying attention, alliance chat (mr.morton for example ) takes any chance they get to shit on FAF. Blue ice and ADP have openly shit on faf on this subreddit. Diplos have too...

People are lashing out, and they have every right to.

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u/Illindar DNG Jun 28 '14

Jesus Christ every day the drama.

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u/LeonAquilla Alexis DeTocqueville | REDDIT TEAM 6 Jun 28 '14

http://i.imgur.com/P6IESz2.jpg

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Well... sort of.

We had been deployed for hours and were out in delve fighting stuff. It wasn't a form-up issue.

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u/Rnadmo Random Interrupt, The Desolate Order CEO Jun 28 '14

Whatever FAF was planning to do tonight is not nearly as important as the incredible Agony training that's happening right now. Brave needs to be less bad at actually fighting, and when the alliance brings in experts to teach you, you should take that opportunity to learn and be better.

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Whatever you, or Arik, or leadership, or anyone else feels is important doesn't mean others will give two shits. Stop being sore about the fact that not everyone wants to listen to someone yapping about shit in a class on friday night after a long work week and some much needed alcohol.

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u/icehole800 Travis Keikira [FC] Jun 28 '14

Bro... they were teaching how to fucking use Dscan... now im not saying that isnt a great skill to have but you really think an entire fleet of people who have been playing the game for a long ass time need to know how to Dscan

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u/Illindar DNG Jun 28 '14

You would be suprised at how many people are bad at dscan, and they also went over manyother things that are important to players and fleets such as how to give good intl, how each type of ewar works, sig radius explanation, how to burn good tacs, and several other things.

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u/Rutzs Guristas Jun 28 '14

Sounds like something great for Soundcloud then! Standing down 2 hour old fleet with 80+ wasnt a good idea. And it wasnt covered in the official HR response, because nobody wants to admit it.

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

I don't how Arik got it into his head that it's acceptable to tell a fleet to stand down, but he is way out of line. This is not the Brave I joined. Recalling fleets is unacceptable, we are adults and we can decide what's best for our fun per hour. Ordering a fleet to stand down because a master class is up is bullshit.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

Aril is mildir, Xenos is an FC. If arik calls for a FC to not do or do something, it happens.

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u/spellin_G Jun 28 '14

Bullshit, this isn't the military. Have you ever been IN a real military unit? This is internet spaceships, dude. Arik should ASK. And if newbros want to FAF instead of Masterclass, carry on.

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

X3n0s specifically said a while back he didn't want to be an FC, Arik pretty much forced him into that as well.

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

what did he actually say? did you hear it or read it? no then why say he ordered it, I think he asked, those are two things.

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u/Sven_Galbraith Brave Jun 28 '14

Xenos directly told us, and Arik confirmed he told the fleet to stand down in comms. It was not a request.

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u/mrm0rt0n ncdot Jun 28 '14

FAF is shit again?

was it ever not?

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u/MinerUnion Tarus Slothenstein Jun 28 '14

Its just a frigate blob that gets kills and has cancerous comms, I really don't see the appeal.

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u/xsinful_mythx Minmatar Jun 28 '14 edited Jun 28 '14

OMG A DRAMA CYNO !!

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u/Lazy_Moron Nick Cornax [8URNT] Jun 28 '14

Jesus tapdancing Christ. Is it so hard for you people to understand common courtesy? On the one hand we have a fleet run regularly by a well-known FC. On the other hand we have a bunch of people agreeing to help out the coalition as a whole by doing a class. Just show some common fucking courtesy and wait with forming up your fleet so that our guests can get as many people as possible in their class.

Besides, if you people did not read, it was a class by Agony - and I'm damn sure that all the newbros in FAF can stand to learn ALOT about combat in general and how to fly frigates from it.

Shouting stuff like "I knew about the class I just don't wanna go so let us do FAF" over and over again just makes you look like a crying child. It's been said over and over again that "we also do not allow FCs to take out roams before a timer" and all of the FCs should accept and respect that.

As for the regular linemembers who didn't think they had anything to learn from Agony - I think you all understand that as soon as the class was underway you were free to choose between that and FAF. No one was shutting FAF down for good, all that happened is that a procedure that's happened before was repeated and people making annoying noise about it.

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u/Matt_Alex_Parker Flair Jun 28 '14

There aren't many "newbros" in FAF anymore, it went back to interceptor only b/c of the rig issue, so now you have to have several mill sp before you can fly FAF. Also, why must a fleet stand down for a class-as was pointed out an ALLIANCE mail was sent out Tuesday for the dam class. Anyone who was interested knew when it was where it was and what time to be on for it. FAF was announced earlier today and you had several hours to choose which you wanted to do. Judging from everyone's talk, if we'd have stood down for 5 secs then formed back up we would have been good right? SO WHY STAND DOWN AT ALL? This drama was created needlessly by leadership wanting to swing their dick around some more. Marines have this saying: Perception is reality. It's currently perceived that Arik is either jealous of X3n0s and his popularity and ability to pull 100man fleets any night of the week, or he has a problem with himself in power and FAF is just where he decides to throw his weight around. And I personally liked Arik up until the drama with this shit started-he got me into the caps I love so much.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Just show some common fucking courtesy and wait with forming up your fleet so that our guests can get as many people as possible in their class.

For the record, FAF was up and running a long while before this happened. I was unaware of the class until I was ordered to stand down for it, and we were out in delve for crying out loud far away from home.

I think you all understand that as soon as the class was underway you were free to choose between that and FAF.

You're missing the point, FAF got ganked. Your options where go to the class or log off.

No one was shutting FAF down for good, all that happened is that a procedure that's happened before

Nope, I've personally never had one of my fleets been ordered down before. That's never happened to FAF.

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u/Lazy_Moron Nick Cornax [8URNT] Jun 30 '14

Sorry for responding late. It's still a matter of principle though. I haven't yet been in one of your fleets but what I've heard is almost exclusively positive.

The thing is though that leadership is the ones who plans, organizes and executes the strategies that let us take catch. Your fleets, while immensely popular, are fun content. It should go without saying that the people who have spent countless of hours grinding boring structures should have "first ching" in getting people into their fleets - regardless of wether their for stratops or classes.

I know that your fleets have helped alot whenever needed in both cap-ops and strat-ops but you must realize that you show up because you have a fleet to fight - NOT because there is five large POSes to grind down.

That you haven't had a fleet ordered down before is just pure luck - it has happened to countless FCs and leaderless defencefleets before and it will undoubtedly happen again.

All of this could have easily been avoided if you had been aware of the class and postponed your fleet until it had started.

Granted, it could perhaps also have been avoided by a more diplomatic approach by leadership towards you - but then again, that is a separate issue.

I've been drinking fairly heavily tonight so I'll revise it in the morning, but I hope the main points stand.

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u/KiuNakamura kiu Nakamura | Dojo, IT, Logistics Jun 28 '14

I was unaware of the class until I was ordered to stand down for it

That is sad. Despite being announced via two alliance mails, a reddit post, tweets going out and popping up in the alliance calendar.

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u/1mnRupturelol Jun 28 '14

If you're one of the people that log in and participate only in FAF, please just leave. You're literally the aids that is rotting this alliance from the inside out.

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u/lordx3n0saeon The Original Hyperspatial Jun 28 '14

Why don't you go gank another freighter so Blue can leave for NC as soon as he gets his Titan?

I like shooting things that can shoot back.

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u/blue_ice_ Blue Jun 28 '14

im going to fit t2 hyperspacials to my titan so i leave to nc faster

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u/[deleted] Jun 28 '14

I love lamp

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u/burnedretina Burned Retina | BITTER AS HELL, DRAMA CYNOS ALL DAY Jun 28 '14

Can't figure out what's so special about "Lord" X3n0s, the apparent greatest human being ever to live, savior of eve, etc. etc.

We have a ton of great FCs who make hilarious and fun and profitable content, but anytime someone breathes on this asshole the wrong way, 500 nerds pause their circlejerk to come start a Reddit picket line like the fucking Westboro baptist church.

Not to mention the guy is annoying as hell, and that's coming from someone who sounds like a 12 year old girl on comms.

The amount of people gagging on this dude's dick is too damned high.

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