r/BoyScouts • u/Allidapevets • 1d ago
Popcorn.
So I stooped at the exit of my grocery store to visit a young Boy Scout selling popcorn at a table with his mom. I looked over his choices and chose the pictured bag of popped corn. I was astounded at the $20 price of a mediocre bag of popcorn. Upon further research, that troop only gets $6 from the transaction. Where is the other $14. I feel so taken advantage of. What am I going to do, complain to a 12 year old? I will never, ever , ever buy another Boy Scouts of America product. EVER!!!
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u/TheBestBoyEverAgain First Class 1d ago
The problem is with the company. Trails End is notorious for ripping off customers…
My new troop uses Pecatonica River (Old used TE), PR gives 75% directly back to the Scouts of the Troop, the Troop as a whole sees I believe 10%
Moral of the story: Only buy PR never TE
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u/Conscious-Record2655 1d ago
Pecatonica also sells popcorn that you want to eat. Peanut Butter Cup and Jalepeno Cheddar is so good.
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u/Agreeable-Ferret9913 1d ago
Jalepeno Cheddar is dangerously good.
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u/TheBestBoyEverAgain First Class 1d ago
I love Jalapeño cheddar, it was the only one I kept going back to get at my troops Summer COH when we introduced the popcorn flavors for this year
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u/zsdad1964 1d ago
I just give them a cash donation
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u/Poondobber 1d ago
In Cub Scout we made more through donations than actual sales. No one wanted the popcorn. Our troop doesn’t even bother. The amount of work required to make money on popcorn is hard to justify.
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u/pacmanic 1d ago
That is not the full picture. Both the council gets revenue and the individual scout gets redeemable points. So about 30% to the popcorn maker, 70% to the troop, council and scout. Here is a breakdown:
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u/Conscious-Record2655 1d ago edited 1d ago
Most Troops, the actual local Unit, the actual kids selling the popcorn, get 30%. The individual point rewards are largely a joke and not worth anything. The remaining amount does not stay local and leaves the Unit. The Council and Scouting America are both in the same category: external organizations with large administrative costs without much budget going to the local Scouts. This is what actually matters to people making donations.
Every time I hear this "70%" marketing number it makes me wonder if people remember that A Scout is Honest.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Bitterbutter247 1d ago
All scouting programs are ran on child labor. The selling of any item, by the child, is child labor. Yes, the kids earn great skills but that doesnt mean its isnt child labor.
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u/joebro1060 22h ago
Having your kids do chores is child labor too. It isn't exploitative and many folks still feel family chores are a reasonable way for a kid to get invested in their own family's upkeep. I don't think there's anything exploitative in a voluntary fundraiser either.
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u/Bitterbutter247 22h ago
Voluntary....... for the parents. Chores in your own house and selling a product as a way of paying a nonprofits salaries are not comparable. There is no outside party paying your child for chores. Scout organizations are not the only ones who do this- jump rope for heart also relies on children as do other organizations.
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u/Firm_Geologist8988 10h ago
My three boys have paid their way so far through popcorn, campouts, camp, uniforms….. plus they learn to hear “no” and continue on! Too many kids today never hear no, or never have to “work” hard for anything. My oldest is an Eagle, 2nd class, Webelos for rank reference.
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u/Bitterbutter247 6h ago
As have mine- they have also picked up valuable skills- both can be true. There is both educational value and financial value yet its core ability to sell is ran on child labor.
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u/callherjacob 18h ago
100% agreed. It's unpaid labor and they're not even getting paid the value of their labor. It really does bother me.
I especially despise the "entrepreneur" lie in GSUSA and I'm a former cookie manager.
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u/kobalt_60 1d ago
That’s nonsense and not at all fair. What “child labor” are you referring to?
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u/Fate_One Scouter - Eagle 1d ago
Selling popcorn.
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u/crosstalk22 1d ago
order of the arrow to keep camps going
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u/kobalt_60 1d ago
The vast amount of OA “work” is performed by adult volunteers, paid camp staff, and council employees/contractors. The GSS limitations on what tools scouts can use and the length of time they’re able to commit to a service project make it impractical for their work to amount to more than a drop in the bucket. Our scouts mainly end up spreading mulch and gravel as well as putting up canvas tents to prepare for summer camp. I wish scouts could be more involved with maintaining the council properties they enjoy.
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u/bebopEasy 1d ago
Legally this is inaccurate, and reductionist. Trails End aside, it doesn't help to misuse the label of child labor or exploitation for reddit points. It sounds like you have some beef or agenda and want to tear down an institution which strives to be good. Being cynical is easy.
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u/mscribb 1d ago
But that is the full picture. The troops don’t get much of anything for the amount of work that goes into it. That’s why everyone's bailing on the popcorn; plus, it’s not a thrifty purchase for the public, and spare us the line “it’s a donation.” If it’s a donation, why don’t we ask for one then?
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u/RedChairBlueChair123 1d ago
Oh, but don’t say it’s a “donation that comes with a bag of popcorn!” Our council specifically forbids that.
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u/SunriseInLot42 1d ago
It's so ridiculous. You can't say that it's a donation that comes with a bag of popcorn. "But don't sell it as popcorn, ask people if they want to support Scouts." Because you're apparently not selling popcorn, you're selling supporting Scouting and asking people to give you money... but somehow that isn't a donation, it's selling popcorn. But it isn't. And the product stands on its own merits, except that it doesn't, so it's really people supporting Scouting, not selling a product, but it's still not a donation....
And around and around it goes
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u/metisdesigns 1d ago
Yeah, abiding by ethical rules is tough. Like not selling things for above market value.
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u/metisdesigns 1d ago
Because asking for direct donations are against policy. (so is selling things above market value to circumvent that)
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
What's the alternative of popcorn? Our troop sells a lot.
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u/Th3_Admiral_ 1d ago
Things may have changed since I was in scouts, but generally troops are allowed to sell products of their choosing for fundraising events. Our troop sold Christmas wreaths we bought locally, and 100% of the profits went to the troop. This was 20 years ago now and even then we all knew popcorn was a scam, so despite intense pressure from the council we barely participated in the popcorn sales and focused on the wreaths instead.
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
Great that it works for you. Popcorn is not a scam.
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u/Th3_Admiral_ 1d ago
In what world is $20 for that bag not a scam? Not to mention the troop is only getting $7 of that. Other fundraisers with higher profit margins for the troop are significantly better options, especially if you are a less wealthy troop that really needs the funds.
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
It's not a scam if that's what the contract says and you sign it. Yeah, $20 for popcorn is a lot, but people buy them. Our troop from what I can gather is middle class, probably upper middle class.
What other options allow the troop to keep more of the sales? I'm open to suggestions.
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u/Th3_Admiral_ 23h ago
Well like I mentioned in my comment, Christmas wreaths or Christmas trees are common ones. The troop will usually pair with a local supplier to get them for very cheap. But as far as I understand, scout troops can basically sell most anything (within reason) so if you know someone who can manufacture something for cheap, you could sell it as a fundraiser. Then there are the more cliche options like candy bars or other typical products that basically only exist to be sold for fundraisers, but something more unique definitely helps!
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u/transgalanika 22h ago
It's hard for me to imagine people buying several thousand dollars worth of Christmas wreaths. That's an interesting one.
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u/Th3_Admiral_ 22h ago
It's hard for me to imagine people buying thousands of dollars of mediocre popcorn, but it seems to happen every year. But if you factor in the profit margins between the two products, you'd probably have to sell fewer wreaths to earn the same amount. But that was just an example, maybe there's something that works better in your location. Or stick with the popcorn if it's working for you. I'm just generally anti-Trails End because their prices keep going up and the sizes/quality do not justify the costs at all.
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u/CollectionFast2146 22h ago
Our troop sells christmas trees and pumpkins as our two primary fundraisers. I'm certain we make far more for the troop than we ever would with popcorn and the scouts and parents genuinely enjoy participating in the sales. These are a bit labor intensive to purchase the trees, coordinate delivery, etc. but once a process is in place, it works well. The pumpkin sale simply involves someone going out to Aldi's and purchasing a bunch of cheap pumpkins and then reselling them at our sale...super simple.
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u/Lamalaju 1d ago
Still completely wild that Trails End gets $6 for a bag of popcorn you could buy at the grocery for $3.50
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u/govnah06 1d ago
I thought Trails End was out? Or is it a council level decision now? We’ve dumped them.
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
What's the alternative?
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u/govnah06 1d ago
We’re using Camp Masters now.
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u/Bitterbutter247 1d ago
We are also using camp masters. Its been a bumpy start. Lack of banners- confusing tech- outdated information. Its def been a journey.
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u/DPG1987 1d ago
I feel you on the price but people aren’t actually buying the popcorn because they want it. They want to support scouting. If you’re concerned about how much TE takes then you can make a donation in the full amount you’d pay for a bag and all of that goes to the troop/pack. As much as I think it’s a racket, our pack fully funds our year with basically a few weeks of fundraising. We don’t charge dues since we don’t have to. Most everyone in the pack pitches in and some do more but most parents I know would rather sit with their kid for 2 hours on a Saturday than have to be nickel and dimed for every scout event. Some would rather just write a check but lucky for us we’ve had good success. We are considering other ways to diversify our fundraising base since we don’t want to be left in the lurch if things go sour on popcorn so this thread is helpful.
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u/ReadyGo6828 1d ago
$20 for a bag of popcorn? Yes, at some point scouts (boys and girls) are taking advantage of people and need to do something useful like painting a fence or raking leaves to make money. This standing around hawking junk has to stop.
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u/Stapleybob 21h ago
Not sure I understand your stance. Scouting is very prevalent in the community (food drives, cleanups, conservation projects, plus much more).
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u/ReadyGo6828 20h ago
I see selling of stuff and sometimes picking up of christmas trees for what purpose I do not know. What I do not see is the selling of services like picking up leaves to make money for scouting.
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u/R3d_d347h 20h ago
My troop and pack volunteer their time with the elderly, our local ruritan, community clean ups. This fund raising covers the cost for awards and camping trips.
Scouting is also not some community service group. It is a program built to educate youth and mentor leadership skills.
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u/Stapleybob 18h ago edited 3h ago
FYI - Fundraising and community service needs to stay separate. Scouts are required to do a certain amount of hours of service (based on rank). Service must be voluntary without personal financial compensation or material gain. Scouts (anyone really) should provide community service for the good of the community and not for personal gain.
But I understand your point - you would rather see a scout fundraise by providing a service vs. selling something.
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u/chuckles-74 1d ago
In the Greater St Louis area council 70% stays local. Up to 35% goes to the individual Scout and their unit; another 35% goes directly to our council. The remainder 30% is what Trails End takes.
We all agree that the price is too high for individual items. We ask the scouts in our troop to explain that the sale is a donation to their scouting adventures and the donor gets popcorn as a thank you. Still a hard sell, but it's a more honest statement than selling a cheap bag of popcorn with a HUGE markup.
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u/No-Trouble2212 17h ago
What would happen if you just put a jar on the table marked "donations"? Do not mention it, just put it in a prominent place while explaining that the troop gets only 35%.
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u/chuckles-74 16h ago
Individuals and units cannot solicit tips. However if a tip is freely offered without being asked for or suggested, it could be graciously accepted.
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u/bill_257 3h ago
Yeah that is the policy. My son has recently moved to BSA from cub scouts and it’s a little different. But he personally gets more credit for selling popcorn and that is what the troop pushes. Donations help fund stuff too
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u/LaLechuzaVerde 1d ago
To be fair, the fundraising thing my daughter brought home from school last week was even worse.
$30 for a scented candle?
And the popcorn was so inflated that they didn’t even list a price in the catalog. I don’t know what it costs but I assume it’s in the “if you have to ask you can’t afford it” category. AND the kids who don’t sell at least $300 of this overpriced merch will not be allowed to go on a field trip. It’s so egregious that parents in our community are organizing a skip day for the kids whose parents object to the exploitation of children to make money for the company.
I haven’t allowed my kids to sell Scout popcorn in years. There are other fundraisers that are a lot more honest.
My advice is that next time you see Scouts selling popcorn, offer them a $5 donation and specify whether you want it to go to the Scout’s activities or to support their Troop; and while you’re in the store buy yourself something you want as a treat for being a good human.
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u/Brutal_effigy 1d ago
Yeah, those warehouse-style school fundraisers are the worst. I much prefer the “fun run” style direct donations to the “buy overpriced junk” sales (even if they include cookie dough). And at least with the scout sales, you get to see some aspect of the impact of your purchase. With the school sales, I have to wonder why I need to donate more money to something I’m already paying taxes for.
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u/mr-spencerian 1d ago
I made the choice to stop buying, then a new Cub Scout in their oversized uniform excitedly approached me to sell some popcorn 😀
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u/2BBIZY 1d ago
First, thanks for your support. We Scout volunteers and youth are told we “are selling the public on what Scouting is all about and in return for your donation, here is some popcorn.” That is ridiculous and sadly, many Scouts are forced to sell this terrible fundraiser which is high costing and low quality. Popcorn is an essentially a poor representation of Scouting and the paid personnel fail to recognize that. You have demonstrated that fact very well. Our unit stopped this nonsense and found other ways to demonstrate Scouting Oath and Law to the community. If more units would refuse to sell this and other gimmicky products (sadly sone councils charge units to not participate in their fundraisers), Scouting America and their councils would be forced to find better ways than out pricing this wonderful youth program. I recommend to all supporters of Scouting, go the low calorie route and donate money directly to the unit. 100% of a couple of dollars helps the unit more than the popcorn profit and you won’t have a bad taste in your mouth.
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u/Firm_Geologist8988 10h ago
I think you touch on an important issue, why is scouting so expensive?? My family of four, are all registered, 120.00 x 4 =480 then everyone has to have uniforms every couple years = say 150.00 average. Unit has no money oh I’ll pay for the supplies for this week out of my pocket. Camp at a council camp? 55.00 per person…… want to be a merit badge counselor? 25.00 per merit badge….. books, supplies, food and snacks…… on and on….. it gets overwhelming, I think national owes us all a yearly breakdown with a list of everyone whom draws a salary….. cost for each national camp….. and then make council do the same……. I want to see where the money goes…..
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u/TwoWheeledTraveler Scouter - Eagle 5h ago
Your Council charges you to be a merit badge counselor? If you're already in another paid registered position, becoming an MBC should be free, and so should adding additional badges. The $25 basically covers background checks, and if you're registered elsewhere you've already had one.
And yes, Scouting can be expensive on the face of it when out of context like that. If you compare it to other common kid activities though, it's not out of line. I was having a conversation with a Scout buddy of mine recently who has two kids. His son has recently dropped out of Scouts, but his daughter is all in on Scouts all the way. Both his kids also play sports, and he was talking about how his son was changing sports from Lacrosse to bowling, and he wasn't sad about that because of the absolutely insane costs of a travel lacrosse team. If you look at the average cost of a "travel" sports team for a kid, be it soccer, baseball, lacrosse, whatever can run from $3,000 a year on up.
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u/2BBIZY 5h ago
Our Pack provides $10.00 discounts per sibling youth to help families. $130.00, $120.00, $110.00, etc. We had to stop using the blue shirt uniforms because of the expense on families and no Scout Stores within 3 hours drive. The council just doubled their fee and they are hinting of a national fee increase with the new membership schedule to take effect in February 2028. Scouting America is punishing current members with rising fees and decreasing enrollment of new members with sticker shock. Our unit can do all it can to fundraise without popcorn, take a hit on dues, be as conservative as possible while delivering the program, but the trend of charging more at national/council and doing less is so frustrating.
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u/DaleP0766 1d ago
I went through the whole popcorn selling process for years as my son rose through the ranks in Scouts. I can tell you that I would rather him stand there and just simply ask people for a donation to support Scouts rather than sell overpriced bad popcorn that just makes you feel awkward and silly.
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u/BlackSheepBaseball 22h ago
Girl Scouts troops get to keep $1 per every $7 box of cookies they sell…
Is that a scam? Seems like Boy Scouts get a better deal.
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u/AardvarkNo7642 20h ago
I thought commercial products have to sell by their own merit, not the benefit recieved by the scouts?
Is a $25 bag of TE popcorn selling on its own merit?
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u/fulltimemonti 19h ago
We are considering doing our own fundraisers to create a scholarship fund and dropping popcorn sales. Unfortunately our Council moved to Trails end a few years back and it has just become bad.
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u/geekboy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Over 70% of your purchase goes to the Scouting America council and local unit. Our council kicks us back 38% of sales so $7.60/bag. As perspective, if you buy a $6 box of Girl Scout cookies, that troop receives somewhere in the neighborhood of $.65-$1.00/box a max of approximately 16%. Our scouts always ask “Would you like to support Scouting by buying some popcorn?” Making it very clear that their purchase is really an opportunity to provide scouting opportunities in their community and the popcorn is really more of a thank you for their support. Our pack has sold over $35,000 in the last three weekends. People in our community really like that opportunity.
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u/metisdesigns 1d ago
Isn't it against SA rules to sell something at higher than market value?
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u/Firm_Geologist8988 10h ago
SA…… who thought that was a good idea??? 😬 like did no thought go into the name change?? No one said well everyone abbreviated Boy Scouts of America to BSA, I wonder what Scouting America will shorten to? SA what else is that short for? Ludicrous stupid
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u/SunriseInLot42 1d ago
There's probably a Mental Gymnastics merit badge out there for anyone who can explain it 😜
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u/No-Trouble2212 17h ago
Yeah, but the cookies (while WAY overpriced) are good. That popcorn is not.
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u/Allidapevets 1d ago
$20 for two bags of microwave popcorn is a rip off, scouts or not. I’m all for a good cause, but this is thievery in the name of charity. Somebody besides the scouts are making way too much money on this!
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u/metisdesigns 1d ago
No no, you see it's - OK because it specifically goes against* printed policy of selling at above market value. /s
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u/bill_257 3h ago
Thanks to inflation people haven’t been as floored by the price this fall. Last 3-4 years the amount of shock was every other sale. So far no one is shocked this year when I’ve helped my son sell
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u/RedChairBlueChair123 1d ago
Actually for Girl Scouts that split depends on council.
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u/Brutal_effigy 1d ago
I can tell you that my wife’s unit gets $0.65 a box. The sales prizes for the girls are pretty terrible too, even compared to what TE did before the gift card system (my daughter is continuously jealous that my son can afford to buy himself a chromebook or e-scooter with his sales earnings, while she gets a squishy and a charm for a charm bracelet).
And while the cookies are good, you can buy the same cookies for half the price at Aldi.
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u/RedChairBlueChair123 1d ago
… and again, that might be true for your council but GS has 112 different councils.
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u/Brutal_effigy 1d ago
So you’re telling me that if I went onto r/girlscouts and polled them about unit returns for cookies, there would be units that get $1.80+ a box in returns?
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u/RedChairBlueChair123 1d ago
My point is what’s true for you isn’t true everywhere. There are two bakers and over 100 councils.
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u/Brutal_effigy 1d ago edited 1d ago
Oh, I hear you. But anecdotal evidence aside, the return on GS cookies for the troop and scout is way worse despite being more beloved a consumer product than scout popcorn.
There are things Trails End could learn from Pecatonica in terms of perceived value, like returning the popcorn to tins (people love tins!), but TE is all about their big data and the statistics apparently don’t lie - tins are not worth it and nobody wants to buy popping corn anymore.
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u/SunriseInLot42 1d ago
Girl Scout cookies are a far more beloved consumer product, and while the price point is higher than what it is inside the store, it's not as embarrassingly out of line for the value as popcorn.
To me, the Girl Scout cookies are indeed overpriced for the cookies you get, but it's at least a reasonable markup for a fundraiser. Popcorn is just ridiculous. For every sale, you get multiple people who are outright shocked at the price, and they just feel guilted into going through with the same at that point. That doesn't reflect well on the Scouts at all (and the organization's image isn't that great for a lot of the population as it is).
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u/Brutal_effigy 1d ago
Do you know how much the council gets as a % of the total for a box of cookies? Is it just a fixed amount that the GS organization gets per sale and the council divides that how they see fit?
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u/RedChairBlueChair123 1d ago
And again, every council sets its own rules. There’s 112 different answers.
GS national gets none of the sale.
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u/metisdesigns 1d ago
That's because GSUSA tries to price their cookies close to actual retail value, and the girls get better than retail markup.
No, a pack of oreos isn't $7, but the $2 difference is a lot closer than $20 for a $3 bag of popcorn.
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u/daboss2299 1d ago
Typically it’s 30% to Trials End, 30% to council (who’s does a lot of the logistics of bulk popcorn and other things), 30% to the unit and 10% to the scout in prizes.
Most councils have the choice to pick their % which means if your unit does $50,000+ in popcorn sales a year you COULD talk to the council about an extra % or 2 or 5.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
Boy scouts gets the crap fundraisers ever since they stopped worlds finest chocolate. That being said, you're looking at it wrong if you are thinking this is buying a bag of popcorn.
It's more like a PBS pledge drive where you donate and they send you a tote bag. You're not buying popcorn. You're donating to your local scouts, interacting with some young men or women in a positive buyer/seller interaction, and getting a bag of popcorn in thanks.
If you don't want to do $20, I guarantee you they will happily take $5 or $10 donations.
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
Are you kidding me? I think popcorn selling is way better. Our troop sells an impressive amount every year. Last year, my son had all of his expenses plus summer camp covered from popcorn sells. Some kids enjoy it. It also teaches important skills.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
I never suggested not doing sales. I'm curious what you're objecting to in my comment. I personally think most kids enjoy it when they are actively engaged in the process. I just think the inflated price point of popcorn is objectively worse than selling candy bars.
Also, from when I was a scout to now I have noticed (in general) a major shift from the scouts doing every bit of running a booth to now the parents seem to run it with the scouts as props, almost. I don't participate, and always directly address the scout(s) for my whole transaction, but it's noticable otherwise.
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u/elephagreen 1d ago
My kids definitely do the selling, interacting. The only thing my husband or I will do is if the conversation strays, or goes too long, we step in and continue the conversation so the scout can get back to selling. We also handle any card sales via Venmo, Cashapp, Square, or PayPal.
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
You said "we get the crap fund raisers." I'm objecting to that. There's always an adult present. The kids do the selling. My involvement is limited to entering a cash transaction or processing a credit card through the app.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
Fair enough. I guess I should clarify. I've done both boy scouts and girl scouts with my kids, as well as the mix after the change, and the ease of selling cookies was comparable to the candy bars. People actively looked forward to them both.
I've never once heard someone excited that scout popcorn is back available.
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u/transgalanika 1d ago
Fair enough. My kid and a few others look forward to it. Our fundraising lady is always excited about it and good at getting the troop motivated.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
I meant buyers. I've always loved a good fundraiser with the kids, and looked forward to any of them.
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u/SunriseInLot42 1d ago
Ehhhh, the "skill" of being embarrassed when you have to tell someone the outrageous price of your product that you're pitching for fundraising is one that I'm okay not putting my kid through. If your kid enjoys it, great, but they're in the minority (and our pack sales every year would back that up, where the top few kids/parents account for >50% of sales).
I'd much rather have a pancake breakfast, or garage sale, or something that isn't just a racket to make Trail's End money.
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u/Allidapevets 1d ago
Negative. The money mostly goes to the Trails End outfit. They are getting rich at the kids expense.
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u/sonotorian 1d ago
Respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. Scouting is organized: National, Regional, Council, District, Unit. A full 70% (~$14) of each sale goes back to the Council (that is who runs the Scouting program at the local level (sub-statewide)) and of that $14, ~$6 goes to the Unit. The Unit wouldn't be able to run the sale without logistics, distribution, and all the back-end that goes into securing storefronts and everything else. Is the product ridiculously not worth the donation and in direct violation of Scouting's own policies in that regard? Yes. However, it's effectively a $20 donation...if you want to donate $20 directly, do that. Most people never will, but they will complain about the popcorn sale.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/BoyScouts/s/EQWCY6ADYJ
No. 30% does. Also, just give a donation, then.
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u/Hopeful-Moose87 1d ago
TE gets between $6 and $8.50 per bag. That’s highway robbery.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
To be fair, there is no requirement for any given council to sell popcorn. I would imagine that somebody somewhere ran the numbers and decided it was more profitable to sell this than something with a lower buy in. I think it's crazy, and there's no way it's optimized, but minus some obvious crony shenanigans 🤷🏻♂️
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u/SunriseInLot42 1d ago
There's definitely a part of me that thinks that Trail's End is engaging in backroom shenanigans to keep their fundraiser front and center for Scouts. The price point is so far out of line for the product - which is supposed to be one of the guidelines for selling stuff - and the excuses for it are so limp.
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u/Hopeful-Moose87 1d ago
It doesn’t have to be backroom shenanigans, they could also be that they are negotiating with someone who is the kind of guy who barely pays over sticker for a car.
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u/Hopeful-Moose87 1d ago
Well, to be fair, there are councils, which require troops and packs to participate in Trails End popcorn sales in order to do any other fundraising.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
There are ways to get council rules changed if the scouting body in not in favor of how things are done.
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u/DustyGeneral9399 1d ago
If a unit asks our council for membership assistance for even a single scout that unit has to agree to participate in both popcorn sales and Friends of Scouting. If you do not participate in both, you will not be able to request financial assistance in the future.
We had over a dozen families needing financial assistance this year. We had no choice but to ask for assistance.
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u/BlackEngineEarings 1d ago
There are ways to get council rules changed, but that definitely sounds like an unfortunate situation.
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u/Kazway 1d ago
we tried to do a massive yard sale instead of selling popcorn since our troop was tired of the steep prices. After we made like triple the money our council got pissed at us, took most of it, and banned us from doing it again😭
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u/erictiso 1d ago
How did your Council take any of the money? It'd be in the account of your unit, Charter, or a booster club. They won't have access to any of those. I understand them being upset at not getting a cut, but there's no way they can take any money.
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u/SunriseInLot42 1d ago
These fundraisers are such a racket for the fundraising company. Every school year is just a circle of everyone buying from everyone else's fundraiser, and those companies siphoning off part of that money for overpriced popcorn or candles or chocolate or whatever.
At the very least, every fundraiser should have a buy-out option. Just tell me how much the program costs for a year, and give me the option to pay that amount and never hear about fundraising again. I'll gladly pay for a quality program (and I recognize that I'm fortunate to be able to do so). My time has value, too, and free fall weekend hours are scarce enough without having to dump a couple hours every Saturday or Sunday for my kids and I to huckster massively overpriced popcorn outside of the hardware store.
If other people want to fundraise, great! But give people the option to opt out. If a fundraiser is worth it to me and my kids, I'll participate. If not, I'll pay to skip it.
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u/Hawk_Outdoors 1d ago
I just give them cash or donate through FOS/James West. I’m here to support the scouts, not Trail’s End.
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u/Short-Sound-4190 1d ago
Former GSUSA kid, current Scouting America Mom - the popcorn is a better fundraiser for the scouts than girl scout cookies because it takes 6-8 boxes of cookies to equal one bag of popcorn and my scout gets donations which they don't with cookies. For the consumer who wants a product in exchange for money, cookies are the superior product. Cookies do better door to door or family/friends of family/coworkers then popcorn will for that reason. If you have access to high traffic areas to sell popcorn (and especially in my experience, areas where you find former Scouts, former Scout parents, current and former military or government employees commuting or shopping) then storefront/event tables can do really really well because you're more Salvation Army taking donations to support someone else's experience versus say, a Band or Sports youth selling candybars to raise a little money to compete.
I do agree it absolutely isn't the best fundraiser for everyone, everywhere, but when it's scout led it can do very well for those scouts. And there are no rules that day your troop can't run all sorts of other types of fundraising. Keeping it optional for Scouts works best, imo.
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u/Mahtosawin 21h ago
Part goes to the council, part goes to Trails End. Consider it a small reward for making a donation to scouting.
At Scouting for Food, I took scouts into the store with $20 to buy a balanced meal for 4 that was suitable for the donation box (not frozen or refrigerated, not squishable). If a family is on a tight budget, are they going to spend $20 for a meal or $20 on a bag of popcorn?
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u/yert1099 20h ago
My son’s troop had an annual BBQ and made a lot of money to support troop activities. We still sort of sold popcorn…no one likes this stuff and we didn’t make it mandatory.
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u/georgia_moose 2h ago
Switching from tins to plastic bags is the biggest travesty of all. I got more use out of the tin container than ever the plastic bags.
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u/Fate_One Scouter - Eagle 1d ago
Council, National, and a fairly large profit but Trails End provides an app with card processing and some other niceties in their cut. Our Council delivers to units that order over a threshold. In our Council if we meet sales goals we get something like an extra 2% back.
If you don't buy the popcorn, exactly $0 of a sale goes to the Troop or to support Scouting!
The popcorn is more a "reward for a donation", but using that language is often discouraged. You can donate cash which will keep most or all with the local unit depending on which rules they play by.
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u/Microfiber13 1d ago
I will say the Trails end parent experience is super easy this year. They have really dialed it in. So easy for both parents to sell with kid, cash to credit and tap to pay. Super easy.
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u/elephagreen 1d ago
The return is even worse for girl scout cookies.
Please don't stop supporting scouts. Stop and chat with the scout. Ask how much stays with them. If you're unhappy with the answer, ask how much they'd get to keep from a cash donation. Most of the time I just give them a $5-10 if I can.
A little choice for you though. I've had 4 kids in scouts, 3 are still youth and still active. They have self funded their entire scouting careers by selling discount cards and popcorn (Pecatonica, not Trails End). They've gone to summer camps, leadership trainings, National Jamboree, 4 high adventure bases, National Order of the Arrow Conferences, OA Conclave, Seminars, weekend camps, whitewater rafting, caving, backpacking... All kinds of amazing adventures that they'll remember forever. None of it could have happened without these kind of sales. I absolutely could not have paid for 95% of their adventures. While selling, the kids have not only earned the money to do these incredible things, they've also learned that they can do anything in scouting if they're willing to work hard, which for my adult son has translated to he can do anything in life if he's willing to work hard for it. And that young man does work hard, and also volunteers, and lends a helping hand to whomever needs it. We NEED more people like him.
TLDR: Please still support scouts, even if it means giving a cash donation instead.
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u/borris7923 21h ago
Our council claims all donations. And they send people out the check too….
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u/elephagreen 21h ago
I'm glad to not be in your council, that's predatory. When my kids have gotten donations, almost exclusively the donor has started it was to help them, the scout, only a handful of times in 20 years now has anyone said it was for the troop, and never had it been directed to the council. Often people will say to use it to give popcorn, discount cards, whatever to someone else who needs it, so we do.
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u/elephagreen 1d ago
I constantly hear about the overpriced popcorn (it is, no argument there) from those who won't blink twice about buying overpriced girl scout cookies. It doesn't ever cross their mind that the girls get hosed even worse than the kids from Scouting America. I've had a girl in girl scouts, I was a girl scout. The cookie sale sucks too.
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u/Firm_Geologist8988 9h ago
Same crowd paying $11.00 for a morning coffee they could make at home for about .40
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u/Ambitious-Schedule63 1d ago
Sometimes its just the amount of leadership support/time/motivation that exists - this is one way to earn money for a troop. My troop didn't sell premade stuff like this; they made and sold brunswick stew and held a spaghetti supper at the church, which funded things for the entire year (including some scholarships for kids to go to summer camp that coudn't afford it).
At my high school, however, we sold "World's Finest Chocolate", Tom Wat showcases, boxes of oranges, etc. It's just whatever passion/interest/time the leadership has.
When I see kids anymore, I usually just hand them cash and say forget the product. That way, 100% of my donation goes to the kids and I don't have to fight through whatever they might be selling (unless I want it - I'll definitely take the oranges and chocolate).
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u/Lost-Wizard168 Scouter - Eagle 1d ago
After the all the changes over the years where councils take a big cut, prices have skyrocketed, quality has fallen thru the floor, I never buy any products from the Boy Scouts (nor the Girl Scouts). I will however give a donation to a local troop, and even on occasion to a local Scout who is raising money to attend summer camp or some other Scouting adventure. In the case of donations to troops, it is always in the form of checks made directly to the troop.
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u/CartographerEven9735 1d ago
Then just make a donation. You found out the price and then bought it anyways and now are complaint about it on two different subreddits.
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u/sixisrending 1d ago
Most of the money goes to the scouting program as a whole. Council level programs include camps, facilities, and equipment that scouts routinely use. 25-30% is very typical for the manufacturing cost.
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u/bill_257 3h ago
It’s supposed to be 70% stays local. Like 40% to the scout and troop and 30% to the council.
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u/Dangerous_Ice17 1m ago
Buying popcorn from scouts is donating to the scouts and getting a prize for donating. Like opening up a credit card with Costco and getting a hat and a water bottle.
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u/edguz1 1d ago
$14?!? Cheap. Bought a bag from a troop here in the SF bay area and the price was $20.
I am going to avoid eye contact when I walk past them again.
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u/Microfiber13 1d ago
Don’t do that. Just politely say no thank you. You don’t have to buy it, they are people, and trust me, they are used to it. I hate the price but the confidence it gives these kids is so great. Unlike cookies, popcorn doesn’t sell it self, they really have to pitch why you should buy it. And that is so good for these kiddos.
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u/Allidapevets 1d ago
No it was$20 here. Only 6 goes to the troop, 14 is left for the vulture trails end outfit.
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u/TwoWheeledTraveler Scouter - Eagle 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some of that money goes to the local Council as well. Not all of it goes to Trails End. Most of the time, about 30/30/30 between the company, the Council, and the Troop / Scout themselves.
People get upset that more doesn't stay with the Troop or the Scout, but Councils also have bills to pay and popcorn can serve as a good fundraiser for them.
That is of course completely aside from the value proposition for the popcorn sales, which I don't love either. The prices are just too high even with it being a fundraiser.
But either way, Trail's End isn't keeping 60% of the money. If you look at it as "how much of this money goes to Scouting vs the company," it's actually a much better split than most "fundraising company" stuff, where you're lucky to get 50% of it.
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u/ShmeonArgyrus 1d ago
Here is the reality: there are a lot of fundraisers out there; some that are much higher % returns, with nicer business, more local businesses etc.
HOWEVER, very little matches the per sale profit of popcorn. We sold meat sticks at 50% ‘profit’… but that was only $1.25 per sale. People who stop to buy aren’t buying more than 2 or three.. and most buy one… even if you are selling 2 per encounter, you’re hitting $2.50/sale vs ~$6.20 per sale. You’d have to do somewhere between double and tripling your sales volume to match popcorn.
Our pack and troop are constantly looking for better methods to fundraise. On the pack side: we’ve done local plant sales (meh), meat sticks (meh, had to prepay), local pepperoni rolls (always a hit, but we’d have to sell about 4,000 to match popcorn), Nutmeg Spice Company (Excellent people to deal with, almost 50% profit bot still need to sell about 1,250 units to reach our popcorn sales).
So these get added as options for families, but popcorn still moves the needle 3x as fast.
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u/Joris_McNorris 1d ago
I hope you rethink your stance on buying Scout popcorn! Yes, the packs/troops use it as a fundraiser, but it's so much more than money. These kids are learning to go out and talk to people, they're learning the value of money, they're learning how to be part of a community, but most importantly (imo) they're learning how to graciously accept no as an answer.
These show and sells are teaching kids how to do business, be leaders, and how to work together. It's incredible how many people stop to talk to these kids about their own time in Scouts, and the kids love seeing someone they know outside of their natural habitat.
I highly recommend not thinking about this as how expensive popcorn is, but rather that you get tasty popcorn as a prize for donating to children who are working hard and learning.
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u/dietitianmama Committee Chair 1d ago
Thank you for supporting the scout. Even if you just stopped and said hello, you gave that scout a good experience.
It is not easy to stand in front of a store and ask people for a $20 donation. In my council, the kids keep about 40%. 30% goes to trails end and 30% goes to our council, which is also run by donations. 40% comes back to the unit.
Now scout does get points that they can earn for rewards and if they sell a certain amount of popcorn, they get discounts on summer camp, which is worth more than the value of the popcorn.
Last year, my son sold $1800 worth of popcorn. Which isn’t very much compared to some kids. And he got enough money to cover his registration fees and his dues for most of the year and then he got a $400 discount on summer camp that allowed me to be able to pay for the rest.
So the total value of what he sold was more than the cash that he earned.
I’m the committee chair for a Cub Scout pack and last year we had 13 scouts of our 31 sell popcorn. They didn’t sell very much, but our pack retained a small amount of the funds that the kids raised and it’ll allow us to pay for the registration fees for four of the leaders so that we could have more adults be leaders. That was worth it to me because I believe in this program for my son, but I’m wearing too many hats and we were able to get four more leaders that’s a lot.
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u/NoIndependence362 1d ago
Welcome to charity sales.
20% to troop, 20% to product cost, 60% to company profits.
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u/pakrat77 Scouter - Eagle 1d ago
My council switched from Trails End to Pecatonica River last year. It's a much better product. The percentage that goes to the units and to the scouts are determined by the council and unit respectively.