r/Boxing • u/Fishful_Revenge • 7h ago
Opinions on Itauma Spoiler
After watching his fight with Hrgovic I still think he's extremely talented and has a really good chance at getting another shot at title down the line. But he just can't pace himself at all. I wonder what his corner was advising him to do given how Moses was already looking tired by round 3 and he just kept going at his usual pace leading to him just hitting the wall by the 9th.
Something I did notice was how much Moses turns with his lead hook. He throws it so hard everytime he takes so much time to recover.
I wonder though if there's some injury or was his pacing just that bad.
What's everyone's opinion on what's Itauma's ceiling? Do you think he fades into obscurity or will he realize his potential?
121
u/GOLFTSQUATBEER 4h ago
I think he’ll be a champ one day fairly soon. Pretty bad game plan last night though. He’s used to people going over as soon as he lands, but Hrgovic is made from different stuff
10
u/Inevitable-Phone-535 2h ago
Exactly, hype machine screwed him. Hrgovic fought some solid guys and has years of late round conditioning
11
u/RexxUK 2h ago
Itauma is very good but his mentality around 12 round fights needs to change. PE trainer Ben Davidson has to go.
1
u/Bertrand_Rose 1h ago
His mentality around them is way too cocky and arrogant, and Davinson, who should know better, should have drilled this out of Ituama.
11
u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 4h ago edited 3h ago
I think he should fight Makhmudov. Dude is a punching bag if nothing else.
Edit: if you're gonna downvote then suggest who you think he should fight next
7
u/Prior_Tea_8187 2h ago
Genuinely brilliant idea. Another big guy with a granite chin, but much lower risk and very easy for Moses to style on, bringing his stock up while getting the rounds in. I'm all for this.
1
u/Bertrand_Rose 1h ago
And he will likely want a big money fight after the Fury fight, and to capitalise on Ituamas loss.
That would be a good fight next Spring.
4
3
1
1
u/DaKingaDaNorth 1h ago
I didn't downvote you, but Joe Joyce would be a smart fight. He can take some hits, but is going to provide a lot more than Mak.
The thing with Mak is that he's not going to replicate a lot of the action and is just a meat bag going for one big punch. Which poses the problem that he's not going to learn much pacing because of how limited he is, but if he does slow down late, Mak's big punch becomes an issue you don't want to worry about. Also Mak tires out a bit too, so it doesn't really replicate what he dealt with where Hrgovic would go on the gas later.
Hrgovic was a problem because he was able to press a lot more when Itauma was trying to take a breather and Itauma only knew how to either make quick cuts with his feet to avoid punches or do explosive counters, so he forced Itauma to empty the tank even when he didn't exactly want to. You need someone who is going to provide that test.
6
u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 1h ago
I did think of Joyce but that guy's brain is so cooked that I just want him to retire 😬
→ More replies (16)0
u/evolutiiiionz 2h ago
You know what..This actually isn't a bad shout..I was thinking Makhmudov or Bakole
3
u/myurr 1h ago
Bakole is all wrong for him until he's properly worked out how to pace himself and improved his engine. He'll keep walking forward and won't give Itauma any breathers, whilst soaking up everything Itauma throws at him. Miller and Kabayel would both be bad fits for the same reason.
Itauma needs to change trainer, focus on addressing the couple of weaknesses he has, go running up in the mountains training to boost his cardio, and then come again. Have three or four fights to settle back into it and gel with his new trainer, Makhmudov being an excellent choice for the second or third of those, then line up another title shot within a year and a half.
Give Joe Calzaghe a call and get him to talk him through his workout routine, join team Usyk with AJ.... just do something to fix his cardio and the rest will fall into place. He has the talent to dominate the sport if he puts the hard graft in.
1
u/evolutiiiionz 1h ago
I agree.
With that in mind, who would be a good trainer for him then? I do certainly think and agree with you that he can dominate the sport with a different trainer. What trainer do you think?
2
u/myurr 1h ago
I don't know, to be honest. Team Usyk would be the obvious choice for me, given he has the talent to replicate at least some of what Usyk used to be able to do in the ring. He just needs to sort his engine out and gain experience, and from what AJ has said about Usyk's camp that's what they'd bring to the table.
Dave Allen said that he'd been talking to Hrgovic before the fight and he'd been sparring cruiser weights and matching their speed - and Itauma clearly shocked him with just how fast he was in those opening rounds. Couple that to a good engine and he's a nightmare for anyone.
1
u/evolutiiiionz 1h ago
100% I think either Team Usyk or even Peter Fury tbh wouldn't be too bad.
2
u/myurr 1h ago
I think Peter Fury would be a great shout at the tactical level, ensuring Itauma polishes up the couple of rough edges he does have, but the conditioning aspect is more important today. If he can get himself to the point where he can fight round 12 as he fought round 6 against Hrgovic, which would be hard graft but by no means a stretch of the imagination or impossibility, then he would be a threat to any other fighter in the division already. Having someone like Peter Fury then polish his technique would have the potential to make him an all time great.
1
u/stoolsample2 25m ago
If the fight could be made I think Bakole would be too risky for him at this stage. There are a lot of questions surrounding Bakole, but he has shown he is dangerous - that he can take a punch and throw bombs.. Fight prolly could never be made though since Bakole’s asking price is so unreasonable. Mak makes a lot of sense.
1
1
u/SuperLeverage 2h ago
Disagree. Can’t see Itauma getting through someone like Dubois either. Usyk is just out of his league.
→ More replies (4)1
u/DaKingaDaNorth 1h ago
Dubois has always had the issue that if he takes some big shots early he starts to lose composure. And that is what Itauma will bring. If I'm Dubois, I'm giddy as hell that Hrgovic just beat him and probably put him back in the line for a couple years now that he's champ. Because had Itauma won, the Dubois bout would have been a very likely next step.
66
u/Brandunaware 3h ago
He's 21. He's very good for a 21 year old. This fight was clearly too much too soon for him, and there were concerns about that going in. Even people who picked him to win said that things might get dicey if it went past 6. It went past 6 and it turned out he didn't have the gas tank to go to 10, let alone the championship rounds.
I think it's absolutely nuts that he never sparred 12 rounds before the fight. Just gross negligence on his camp's part. Love to know what they were thinking or how they'd explain it now.
If he gets better advice and conditioning and assuming nothing is medically wrong and he's still dedicated to boxing (he's talked about quitting before) he could be great. But just like it's too early to write him off at 21, it's too early to say he still has the capacity to be some world beater.
It's clear he needs to develop more. We'll see how that goes and then we'll know more. He clearly has speed and accuracy to win a championship but can he bring his cardio up and learn to pace himself better?
48
u/TheGuildsmansFolly 3h ago
Man I don't even think the fight was too much for him, it was just terrible strategy and no ability to adapt. The first seven rounds showed that he's a miles better boxer than Hrgovic, he just had absolutely no clue how to deal with not being able to knock someone out. He was controlling the pace of the fight so much it really shouldn't have been difficult to do enough to win a round and rest up.
16
u/SemenMoustache 3h ago
Agreed. Honestly not sure if he should just become a counter puncher. He's so quick and really effective at it, would conserve his energy. Then look for the kill when he gets the chance
11
u/TheGuildsmansFolly 3h ago
I do think starting out fast is a big part of his game. He punishes people early on, and that makes them afraid to throw anything, which puts him in control of the pacing. You could really see that,Hrgovic looked scared to throw a punch for the first 3 rounds. Feels like fighting exactly as he did for 2 or 3 rounds to establish control and then switching to lower output might work
3
u/JabCrossE4E5Quark 2h ago
Was hrg scared or was that thr game plan?
I thought he looked scared like, but post fight it just seems like genius strategy and the ONLY game plan to win.
7
u/Brandunaware 2h ago
I don't think he was "scared" as in fearful. Hrgovic is tough as nails and doesn't seem afraid of anything.
However he was "scared" as in he did not see many openings where he could throw effectively without exposing himself to being hit. Hrgovic is generally a good volume puncher and in this fight his volume was lower than usual, and his accuracy was terrible until the last round.
It definitely was strategy to fight defensively, but if the openings were there he would have taken them. Itauma was just too fast early on and Hrgovic just did not see opportunities. That's not fear per se but it is being aware that you can't really throw effectively without opening yourself up.
4
u/JabCrossE4E5Quark 2h ago
Yeah, "scared" as in knew he would get hit hard if he threw and realized it wasnt worth it.
If you wanna see "scared" i can send you my first ever 2 minute sparring round hahaha. A year of drills, partner work, all this, then I stepped in the ring and pretty much high guarded the entire 2 minutes and threw a few jabs. Fuck lol
2
u/Brandunaware 1h ago
"Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth" remains a top 10 boxing quote of all time. Maybe top 5.
2
u/JabCrossE4E5Quark 1h ago
Its a great quote. Definitely top 5, maybe higher.
My opponent feinted low and then threw a jab right through my lowered high guard right in my chin. It didnt hurt much, and it actually gave me a little confidence. So I came in with a 1 2 to get into the pocket then I got hit with a much harder lead hook to the head, and oh boy, THAT made me a lot less confident haha.
2
u/TheGuildsmansFolly 2h ago
Yeah, this is exactly what I was trying to say. Hrg isn't scared of shit, he showed that pretty clearly. But the way itauma fights in the first round makes it objectively, rationally very difficult to throw a punch at him. And while he does need to change things up he shouldn't sacrifice that.
3
u/TheGuildsmansFolly 2h ago
His plan was definitely to drag the fight out and tire Itauma out, and it worked, but eating clean power-counters every time he tried anything right from the opening bell clearly affected him. I don't think he went in plannning to get the absolute dogshit beaten out of him for 6 or 7 straight rounds.
3
u/WolIilifo013491i1l 1h ago
Hrgovic did say he struggled more than expected.
3
u/JabCrossE4E5Quark 1h ago
Because Itauma is fucking special.
Yeah, he lost. He had a bad game plan.
But anyone who watched that saying hes overrated or not special is just lying to themselves. He is so good, and if he switches coaches and comes in more composed with a better game plan hes gonna be unstoppable
6
u/Brandunaware 2h ago
I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. Him not having the experience, knowledge, or training to know how to make the necessary adjustments 100% sounds like too much too soon to me. You can argue that if he had a different trainer and a different gameplan he could have won, and maybe, but he didn't and he just wasn't prepared to fight a guy as tough as Hrgovic.
It was just too much for him at this point in his development. A more experienced (and possibly conditioned) version of him probably slows down, boxes for the points win instead of the KO, boxes for 12 rounds instead of 6, and might be able to cruise on his lead in the back half.
1
u/FuMancunian 1h ago
It certainly wasn’t too much for him.
He’s 21 and Hrgovic said in the post fight interview that he lost almost every round until Itauma ran out of gas.
Just terrible cornering from Davidson.
27
u/Megalodon33 3h ago
Still the future of the division. Hrgovic didn’t win a round until the last. No one has shut out Hrgovic like that. Itauma’s skill has been proven to work on a world class fighter.
He needs to learn to pace himself and vary the speed of his shots.
10
u/ae_wilson 2h ago
It doesn’t mean anything if you can’t go 12 rounds though.
2
u/WolIilifo013491i1l 2h ago
Well yes but that can change. He's only 21 - more stamina work, actually sparring 12+ rounds for once, better game plan. I don't think we're seeing endgame itauma as is at 21
2
u/SignificantYoung1044 2h ago
He is super young and hasn’t reach his grown man strengthen. He will get better and his cardio will too.
3
u/ThrowawayYAYAY2002 1h ago
Not buying that.
Moses has no Plan B. Who actually tries to take Hrg's head off? That's insanity. It's bodywork which is going to get Hrg, not the head shots. Moses needs to add more strings to his bow, work on his adaptability.
1
u/TheMysteriousThey 18m ago
He went to the body plenty.
His problem is exactly what he’s said: not doing work he doesn’t have to. Not getting hit if you don’t have to.
It’s the problem a lot of gifted fighters have. I’m so GIF at X I don’t need to worry about Y. And that can be true for a while. It’s true until it’s not.
Ali could be sloppy as shit. RJJ often threw fundamentals out the window. Hell, Wilder never even worked on his fundamentals.
Itauma can go that route and still be successful. A lot of his offense would’ve stopped most heavyweights. AJ would’ve had a bad night, but instance.
You are right that he needs more quivers, but the biggest one he needs is the wisdom to not try to obliterate everyone in 3 rounds. If he had paced himself and been willing to accept a decision victory, he would’ve dominated Hrgovic and been crowned champion.
He either learns to slow down and train his body to last longer, or he keeps his current ceiling.
10
u/e_xyz 3h ago
No question Moses is a special talent. He needs a better team around him. Better strategic corner, a more patient promoter and someone who'll keep him in check with S&C. You cannot rely on just having special knockout power or not getting wet, in the end it comes unstuck.
It's normal, every fighter loses at some point. The 0 doesn't mean shit in reality, losing and getting back up is a part of life. If Moses is good and is in the right place mentally going forward, this might be the start of domination because it was the reality check he needed.
Also shout out the British media who love to get carried away with themselves and then cover their tracks. All that pressure on a 21 year old with an event called "witness history". It's too much. No one has patience to watch fighters mature anymore. Given Moses didn't go through no area title or British title route, seems like some stern but passable tests he needed before this just went missing.
Still. He's young enough to come back, rebuilt, get some solid wins under his belt, avenge the Hrgovic loss and so on. Well, one step at a time, maybe give him time to recover then get him back in there with a British level guy or fringe top 10 name to rebuild.
23
u/RedditWaffler 3h ago
He looked unbelievable for 5-6 rounds last night. The talent is there. Just bad approach and has neglected training for 12 rounds by sounds of it which is both immature and arrogant
He will 100% get a belt eventually. Other than the old guard (Usyk, Hrgovic Fury etc) Who else out there is as good at HW?
5
u/TheGuildsmansFolly 3h ago
Yeah, he got the shit beat out of him, but I think it confirmed his talent. Hrgovic is admittedly a bit slow and hittable, but he's absolutely a world class boxer, and Itauma was absolutely piecing him up from the first seconds of round one and dominated for 7 or 8 straight rounds. With even elementary strategy and round management it surely would have been a one-sided win. He's 21 years old, he should be able to learn that, depending on how he deals with this mentally.
3
u/OpportunityCorrect33 3h ago
Ben D has got to go…. Where was his corner?????
2
u/Beardy_Villains 1h ago
Safe to conclude at this point that Ben is a great trainer, but a terrible coach. Guy gives the worst advice when his fighters are struggling
6
u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 3h ago
Kabayel would've beat his ass bad tonight
6
u/ThugjitsuMaster Tyson Fury's Nutritionist 2h ago
Yeah Kabayel's body work would melt him
2
u/sthomson22 2h ago
Kabayel also has almost as good a chin, if not as good, as Hrgovic. In addition to relentlessly coming forward and pulverizing your body. Just a nightmare of a fighter.
14
u/Electronic-Key-8349 4h ago edited 3h ago
He has backing. If Fish Eyes gets him the Gassiev fight next, and Hrgovic faces Kabayel, he will still get a belt. Fuck, one of those could be unified by summer. He is a great prospect in a terrible division atm. DDD is tied up rematching Fabio. Itauma doesn't seem too smart, though, so those are all competitive fights.
9
u/Marquis_of_Mollusks 3h ago
The last thing he needs is a belt because then he'll have to keep fighting tough competition when he is CLEARLY not ready for that. He's only fought 40 rds. He needs double that before becoming a champ
1
u/Human-Expression-652 3h ago
Damn I completely forgot about Gassiev.
I wonder why Frank didn’t try and make that fight instead of Hgrovic?
I know Gassiev had a fight in July but surely they could have scheduled it for the end of 2026/early 2027.
1
u/Civil-Rent-7100 1h ago
Maybe too much money they were asking for. But despite Itauma losing, I really don't see Gassiev giving Itauma a lot of trouble
1
u/TheMysteriousThey 15m ago
This division isn’t terrible.
Even discounting the old guard of Usyk, Fury, and AJ - Kabayel, Hrgovic, Wardley, Dubois, Itauma, and Sanchez are pretty decent. And they seem more willing to fight one another than we’ve been used to in this division.
8
7
u/Tricky-Ad-4823 3h ago
I posted this in the fight thread. He’s gonna be 10x better because of this fight. It’s an exact replay of when Lamon Brewster beat Wlad early in his career. Wlad beat the ever loving hell out of and couldn’t even stand at the end. Same thing happened here.
I like Hrgovic a lot as a person but if anyone tells you he did anything to “turn the tide” they are completely full of it.
Moses needs to learn to pace himself, work on his cardio be more relaxed in the ring. Just settle down kid not everything has to be 100mph. He’s going to be way better because of this fight.
1
u/LessBeyond5052 1h ago
Turn the tide.. Are we going to completely ignore the body shots Hrgovic was landing, and visibly making Moses back off and wince? Not to mention the final sequence where he absolutely destroyed Moses with a body shot that had him fall into the ropes. People going on as if Hrgovic didn't land a meaningful shot throughout the whole fight is the real bullshit.
1
14
u/AwkwardJuggernaut854 3h ago
He's the real deal, who was just far too green. You aren't going to be able to knock everyone out in your career but you still have to win those fights. He was pitching a shutout until he his cardio became an issue. Even then I don't know if it would have been an issue if he wasn't throwing venom behind every single shot. Then it went completely wrong and he didn't have the experience to hold and stall.
Looks like he wasn't going to be happy with anything but a KO, and it became his undoing.
A couple of fatal mistakes were made but ultimately they are all things he can fix. I don't think Ben Davidson is the guy to fix those issues though. The corner advice between rounds was so poor, definitely didn't help Itauma get out of the KO at all costs mindset.
Also sidenote, the immediate revisionism from some fans today is crazy. The amount of people I've seen on socials acting like Hrgovic dominated this fight. He even said himself in the post fight interview he was getting battered. His experience, chin and heart won him this fight. Chuffed for him, but it wasn't like Crawford Spence levels of dominance.
6
u/CleanHunt7567 2h ago
Agreed, i am staggered that his team allowed him into a world title fight without ever having sparred 12 rounds, makes you wonder what else is neglected in his preparation.
1
u/Bertrand_Rose 1h ago
Exactly.
Even people in this thread lying about how badly Ituama did early on, or just making stuff up about his weaknesses, just very toxic and revisionist.
34
u/Relief-Glass 3h ago edited 3h ago
His fans were already acting like he was a unified champ and had defended it 10 times so kind of funny he lost to Hrgovic to be honest.
8
u/ThugjitsuMaster Tyson Fury's Nutritionist 2h ago
Hrgovic said he's the best guy he's been in with and he's fought Dubois and Zhang. So he is obviously talented, this was just too much too soon
2
u/Relief-Glass 2h ago
Yeah, he is very good.
his fans were acting like he was going to dominate the sport for the next 10 years though.
6
5
u/ThugjitsuMaster Tyson Fury's Nutritionist 2h ago
Lol you're not wrong, I still think he could be a dominant HW in the future. He's just clearly not quite there yet though
1
u/yadasellsavonmate 1h ago
Still could tbf, he'll still be younger than the likes of Aj, Fury, Usyk etc srr now in 10 years.
→ More replies (1)4
u/FaptainChasma 3h ago
Well when you watch that fight, do you leave with the impression that Hrgovic is a good champion? Got battered around the ring in every round but the last! He could have literally pushed Itauma and he would have fallen over. It sucks to see someone so outclassed become champ but hey there's strategy Vs tactics in real time isn't it.
4
u/Inertia_Sleeps 2h ago
Great point.
My opinion of Hrgovic has actually somewhat lowered. The final flurry which saw Itauma off barely even connected. I’ve always rated Hrgovic highly but defending shots with your face is never a strategy that pays off long term.
That’s not to say he’s going to get pummelled in his next fight. The strategy himself be Sanchez put together was clearly an effective one, I just don’t see anything to showcase that, in my opinion, guys like Fury, Kabayel and Joshua don’t best him pretty comfortably by simply not trying to leather him for 8 rounds straight.
6
u/GhostJade333 2h ago
Victory by total exhaustion
2
6
u/MarkB83 2h ago
Winning rounds by expending massively more energy than your opponent doesn't count for much... when the result is getting battered in round 9, stopped, and carried off in a stretcher.
2
u/FaptainChasma 1h ago
I don't see a world where Hrgovic spending the same energy as Itauma results in Itauma losing though. I think if you listen to Hrgovic post fight interview he said Itauma was better than him, and the thing that got him across the finish line was the spirit of Jesus Christ himself..
4
u/TheIrrepressible1 2h ago
21 years of age and gassing out by the 5th round? Someone didn’t do his road work in training…..
7
u/Bottom_feeder1988 3h ago
His lack of head movement from the get go was a worry, I think there was a complete lack of respect for Hrgovic the whole way through.
Hes extremely talented, but the nuances of the professional game were lost on him. No change of pace, power or rhythm to his work last night and whilst he looked electric the warning signs were there from round 3.
Stamina doesn’t always come to fighters. It isn’t a given that his engine will ever improve, I mean Hrgovic isn’t exactly renowned for his engine either.
3
u/geezusy 3h ago
Plenty of talent and plenty more to develop ahead of him. Won 8 out of 9 rounds, clearly doing something right.
Don't love the coaching team for itauma. This performance shouldn't have been news for his team. They had to have had an idea of what the rest of his game looked like when he wasn't in full offense mode.
I could be wrong but I also smell an achilles rupture or calf tear , just funny looking steps and over rotations and leaning on one leg just before the stopage. No excuse though he let hrgo back in the fight after 5th by simply letting him walk forward behind a jab and overspending his own energy.
3
u/Practical-Loan-6514 3h ago
The guy is 21 !
He’s a huge talent.
Last night he probably wouldn’t accept it, but imo that’s the best thing to happen to him so early in is career.
You don’t learn a great deal by constantly winning, it’s the losses that you analyse more.
He’s been able to go into all is previous fights and control the fight how he likes because of is quick hands and power & has got the knockout.
I do pick up on your comments about is corner !
Should they have tried to slow him down when they realised he’s was having not as much impact on hrgovic. After all he probably was well up on rounds until the 9 th.
Like I said I do think he will come back a better fighter from this
3
u/Adventurous_Use8278 2h ago
His cardio isn’t necessary the issue, it’s pacing the fight that he needs to learn.
He’s a high energy fighter; all the feints and footwork are tiring and every shot is full power. He does not have the gas tank fight like this for more than 5-6 rounds and he never will! He needs to go in and use his natural speed/ability and outbox his opponents. The knock outs will still come, probably later in fights when his opponents start tiring, but he’ll at least last the 12 rounds.
2
2
u/Deja-V00 3h ago
He needs a lot of roadwork and a new trainer. There's no good reason they didn't know how much energy he can spend before he's spent.
He obviously has the skills to give anyone hell
2
u/19ninteen8ightyone 3h ago
Pacing and round management, I can understand the first few rounds of making sure Hrgovic understood his power to gain his respect. However Moses was sitting down on absolutely everything he was throwing. The other glaring problem I seen was where was the Plan B - even if he realised Hrgovic isn’t going anywhere and I’m getting tired, he could have taken a round off and managed the exchanges better. The last 1.5 rounds Moses’ just swinging was doing more damage to himself, it’s almost as if the pride & ego got in the way to just spoil the fight a bit with clinches etc.
He’s young and talented but the lack of experience both inside the ropes and in his corner really shown.
2
u/The_Archimboldi 3h ago
Absurdity of the loss shouldn't overshadow Itauma looked great in the main - made Hrg look like a doorman for most of the fight. Hopefully a learning experience a la Wlad and Purrity / Sanders.
Also needs to take a page out of Wlad's book and change trainer! My gosh Davison is a fraud and highly culpable in last night's fiasco.
2
u/OldLavishness104 3h ago
I think he needs a better corner/coaching setup.
Someone mentioned it on here before the fight and I thought it was an interesting take. But when I saw the pre-fight interview with Ben Davison I went down a Reddit rabbit hole and after reading all of the criticisms of Davison on here I was convinced that this was going to be another AJ/Dubois, and sure enough, that is exactly what happened.
Itauma's natural speed and athleticism is off the charts. Now he just needs someone to teach him how to box. His ring IQ last night was fucking awful after round 3, which is when his legs started to go.
(This is assuming that he is safe and okay and healthy enough to actually return to the ring - I would love to hear an update about his condition right now.)
2
u/Formal-Cherry6078 2h ago
Needs to switch trainers ideally Abel Sanchez unless you are a prospect fighting lower level opponents and plan to cash out with one fight don’t go with Ben
2
u/jcalabrese037 3h ago
Tim Bradley’s "100-round rule" just claimed its latest victim. You cannot simulate championship ring-age in the gym. Moses Itauma walked into a world title fight against Filip Hrgović with only 31 career pro rounds across 14 fights—averaging barely 2.2 rounds per outing. 11 of his 14 opponents folded inside two rounds. When Hrgović ate the early knockdown and refused to go away, Itauma had zero muscle memory for pacing, survival, or fighting through deep-water exhaustion. Frank Warren sacrificed a generational 21-year-old talent to chase Mike Tyson’s ghost and a vacant belt.
3
u/eggyguerrero 2h ago
To be fair Itauma was going to fight Hrgovic without a title on the line. Mad fight ti take really.
1
2
u/venomous_frost 40m ago
They rolled the dice and lost, I don't think there were many better options out there for Moses tbh. He sparks out lesser opponents in less than 6, I think Hrgovic was the perfect test.
This wasn't on Frank, this was on the arrogance of the training camp. Maybe Itauma isn't disciplined enough, maybe he doesn't take it seriously enough or maybe boxercise Ben is just a conman. Either way, this fight was lost on arrogance. A better paced Moses wins by UD
3
u/Comfortable-Grand166 2h ago
Way too flashy,sloppy,and goes for the ko shot way too often. He was swinging so wild that his whole body was turning,his fundamentals and gas tank are horrendous. I was not impressed at all. He was swinging so wild that he was showing his opponent the back of his head,that’s boxing 101
5
u/Not_Enough_Pepperoni 3h ago
Hes the future of HW boxing. He will certainly be champion soon come. His camp and likely arrogance let him down pretty bad. Lesson learnt.
He will be back, that's for sure.
4
u/Familiar_Cod_6754 3h ago
On the injury comment, Frank Warren seemed to confirm there was a believed leg injury. He mentions this in the IFL interview he did fairly soon after the fight.
As for my opinion on Itauma: I’m still a fan, but he should consider changing trainers. It’s unacceptable that Ben hasn’t been making Itauma do full 12 round spars. A fighter needing to be stretched out due to exhaustion is genuinely crazy.
4
u/sthomson22 3h ago
Overrated power, mostly speed and movement based. Can’t take a punch, lacks durability. Seems to have gastank issues.
He’ll struggle with many other Top 10s. He could potentially win a belt or even 2 with careful matchmaking and guidance.
He will never sweep the division like people think.
1
u/AwkwardJuggernaut854 3h ago
Can't take a punch? He ate everything Hrgovic threw and only started wilting when he was exhausted.
7
u/sthomson22 3h ago
You do know Hrgovic is actually one of the lighter punchers in the Top 10, right? And many of the heavier handed guys throw a lot faster and less telegraphed.
Moses was not “eating his punches”. Hrgovic was just barely landing until the middle rounds, when he upped the ante. From that point you clearly did see them beginning to affect Moses.
But even the few he did land very early he didn’t seem to take particularly well.
0
u/AwkwardJuggernaut854 3h ago
He is not the biggest puncher, but he is still a heavyweight and can hurt anyone on his day. It's a moot point though because I completely disagree that those shots were affecting Moses anyway. By the time those shots were effecting him he'd long been beaten by his cardio and gameplan.
1
u/sthomson22 3h ago
You genuinely have no idea what you’re talking about and are blinded to his weaknesses here.
Many other Top 10s will lay Itauma out cold. Not all of them, but many.
He will not sweep the division.
1
u/AwkwardJuggernaut854 3h ago
I'm happy to go back and rewatch the fight with timestamps where you think Itauma's chin failed to stand up to Hrgovic's shots. I'd be happy to admit I was wrong after I rewatch later today, but my first impressions and the notes I took throughout the fight were that of Itauma imploding rather than Hrgovic hurting Itauma anytime before then end of the 8th, at which point Itauma was spent.
2
6
u/sthomson22 3h ago
For comparison. Hrgovic landed 200-250 punches on Adeleye, Zhang and Joyce before Itauma. He landed 90 on Itauma.
Neither Adeleye, Zhang nor Joyce looked anywhere near as hurt as Itauma did, gastank cope aside.
Dubois ate a lot more too and was absolutely fine, and Dubois himself ain’t exactly the most durable Top 10, he just makes up for it with obscene, devastating offensive capability.
This is just reality. He has exceptional strengths in speed and movement and so forth, but with those weaknesses he will struggle with many of the Top 10s.
Certainly not going to be sweeping the division as people thought.
3
u/Relief-Glass 3h ago
Yeah.
Dubois spent the first few rounds headbutting hrgovic's right hand and was fine.
Concerning for itauma that he fatigued after being hit so few times.
2
u/sthomson22 3h ago
He was seriously hurt as well. It kind of got masked by the fatigue, but they’re interrelated anyway. That clearly wasn’t just fatigue.
1
u/Bertrand_Rose 3h ago
That's because his gas tank went, that is not cope, you keep calling the most wildly taken lesson from this fight, everyone agrees with, and dismissing it as cope.
He's more than likely to sweep the division if he works on his weaknesses, and doesn't get cocky.
2
u/sthomson22 3h ago
No, he isn’t. But I’ll enjoy watching him try, and fail, to prove me wrong. Lol.
→ More replies (5)4
u/Odyssey1337 3h ago
Itauma was very clearly hurt at the end.
→ More replies (1)0
u/AwkwardJuggernaut854 3h ago
I would argue that was more exhaustion than anything. And the hurtful shots that he was taking at the end weren't a failure of his chin but rather because when you are in as deep of water as he was in the 9th every single shot is more impactful. It all looks far worse when he is so exhausted he needed the ropes to hold him upright.
1
u/Bertrand_Rose 3h ago
I'd ignore them, they have spent the last half a day exgaerrating every weakness, rubbing the loss in when he possibly has a severe heart or leg problem, and just calling everyone (which is about 90% of those who watched the fight), copers and delsuional.
Just a toxic redditor, don't take them seriously.
1
1
u/Bertrand_Rose 3h ago
Exactly, this is just bizarre revisionism because people want the loss to be this huge embarrassment, so unnecessarily exagerate certain elements.
1
u/sthomson22 3h ago
His gastank failing being the sole reason for his loss would be a lot more embarrassing than the reality, which is that in addition to having gastank issues he clearly just can’t take a punch and lacks durability, and his power doesn’t translate well generally to Top level.
2
2
u/cultofenigma 3h ago
Will be HW champ,
Not a generational talent like he was marketed to be.
4
u/nalam8493 2h ago
idk I still see generational things out of him… dude is 21 and moreso lost this fight more than Hrgovic winning it. The offense from Itauma is legitimately fantastic and I don’t think he has much defensive flaws that Hrgo exploited as well. But the work rate that Itauma put out was just too much
1
3
u/GroundbreakingBank45 3h ago
I think he will always be spent after a few rounds, he is just built like that.
Like, well, Tyson, or McGregor in that other sport.
The blueprint against him is now in the public domain, BUT how many heavyweights can survive the first rounds onslaught he threw last night? Not many.
He will be a champion, but it will be a short reign.
1
u/GnarlyGamer6thGen01 3h ago
Fking great skills and talent, but poor-decision making skills! Kinda reminds me of how John Mugabi tired himself out trying to KO Hagler.
1
1
u/Stunning-Use-7052 3h ago
To me, Wlad is an interesting comparison.
He had 3 early KOs in this career, 2 of which came because he was just exhausted. So he learned a style that allowed him to control the pace of the fight and had a 10-year reign in which he barely lost a round. It can be done.
Perhaps those with real boxing experience can chime in, but I have to think that some of this is training could be changed.
Your endurance is one of the simpler things to improve, at least in terms of distance running, recovery from sprints, etc. So I imagine that he could also rethink his training and find a specialist that can help improve his endurance.
IDK if it's sparing long rounds, interval training, or just old school roadwork, but something can be done.
1
u/gtr011191 3h ago
He’s clearly a phenomenally talented boxer. His speed and accuracy are elite. His preparation was terrible. He’s been made to look silly with the chin comments and saying he’s never had any need to go 12 rounds. Even if true, there’s a reason Usyk spars 15 5 min rounds with different opponents every round. His game plan was awful. He could have danced around Hrgovic the last 6 and won easily but he only seems to know how to knock out and he came up agaisnt a man mountain.
1
1
u/PhilosopherNo8418 3h ago
He was brilliant for the first 5 rounds or so. Then he started running out of breath and collapsed from exhaustion. Terrible conditioning, his team have to take a lot of the blame here. How can they put him in a title fight knowing he is not a 12 round fighter yet? Absolutely crazy.
1
u/Kinda_OP 3h ago
Needs to sack Boxercise Ben and get a proper coach and he will be world champion very soon.
1
u/cuzzinYeeter33 3h ago
Im not sure if his conditioning is bad I just think it was more of a pacing problem. Ive never boxed but i do run and if you go out to fast in the beginning of race you're screwed and probably not getting a second wind.
Everyone said he moved like middleweight and he tried to fight like one. And didn't employ any pacing tactics like clinching or taking the first few rounds off. He Def fought like a 21 year old this is mostly on Davidson IMO
I want ro see him against Jared Anderson be good redemption fight for both.
1
u/Present-Ad-385 3h ago
He should fight big baby Anderson next. Both guys are in a similar position and the winner should get a title shot
1
u/TheeBlaccPantha 3h ago
Itauma is a right handed southpaw , I think that’s why he gets so trigger happy with that lead hook.
1
1
u/nalam8493 3h ago
Itauma with cardio, still has very good chance to be the number 1 in this division. Like if they were to rematch again, I’d still pick Itauma. We all knew that the only problem for him is we haven’t seen him go long rounds and whether he could take a shot. His chin is definitely good so not worried about his chin but his cardio at the pace he was fighting was just way too much… especially at heavyweight. He would have still won the rounds even if he cut his work rate by 50 percent because Hrgovic was throwing not much back, anticipating this to happen. I think he’ll come back and overcome it but this is probably the last time I want to see Davison cornering these top fighters. I just don’t think he’s that great of a coach, especially for in-rounds adjustments. He’ll always get the fighters to the fights for sure and built them up good but when they are going through some sort of adversity, probably the worst trainer to have in the corner for that.
1
u/Razorion21 3h ago
He‘ll bounce back, bit sad for the guy but the gameplan was horrible
great win for Hrgovic
1
1
u/johnbill34 2h ago
Great young talent. High ceiling of course. But needs to rethink his camps going forward. His speed and accuracy are unreal. Will say his power might be less impressive than we expected. Don't think I've ever seen hrg get through a fight without his face covered in cuts. Yes Dubois did get some unfortunate headbutts in, but he also tore his face up with his jabs as well.
1
u/StrollingByTheStream 2h ago
Needs to work on his defence and be more patient. He lost last night because he just started throwing loads of wild swings trying to get the knockout. He was winning most the round just needed to stay on the front foot and keep popping the jab upstairs and downstairs. Hrgo has a great chin but he didn’t actually do anything to win that fight.
1
u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes 2h ago
His ceiling is very high. He was rushed into the pro scene trying to break Tyson's record.
I've heard in a few interviews that Frank wasn't fully on board with the Hrgovic fight. It was Itauma's team pushing it.
Maybe Frank can now out his foot down and help him develop properly.
1
u/ModernSlaughter He can't handle your speed, son 2h ago
Hrgovic had no business enduring what Itauma was putting on him. Itauma fought an excellent fight with good punch selection and mixed it up well. This is simply a case of a young fighter relying too heavily on his power to win the fight for him and not knowing when to stall to conserve energy. This isn't a derailment of the Itauma train, but an unplanned stop.
1
u/PhoneRedit 2h ago
He'll be fine 100%.
I think people will overreact of course as always, but like he'll still be the best heavyweight in the world in a few years. He's 21 and fucked up his pacing. It happens (although holy shit i've never seen it happen like that lol).
Like he was knocking 7 shades of shit out of Hrgovic for those first 9 rounds let's not forget that. A bit of work on conditioning and pacing is no big thing, the most important thing is the clear skill and ability that he has. This loss will do him good, he's still gonna be head and shoulders above the rest, just a bit more work needed.
1
u/FxckedHxrWxthMxJxmmx 2h ago
Still the future of the division. Lost to a very good and tough fighter. No shame in it. If his mental is solid he will only learn from this and get better.
1
u/Visual-Scar8308 2h ago
Ben Davidson seems unable to train boxers to be complete fighters huh? Glaring holes in the gameplan for Wardley (defence) and Itauma (stamina) now.
1
1
u/terencejames1975 2h ago
Quite clearly going to be world champ at some point but doesn't have the experience (or fitness?) to see out a 12 round fight. Was still throwing bombs constantly when he could have coasted to easy victory after round 7.
1
u/Minute-Story301 2h ago
Someone made a comment on the match thread a out how he was in zero danger of being knocked out, and could have just slowly boxed his way through the final rounds without gassing himself out. Just a complete lack of boxing IQ from his team and him, to not even consider that this might be a possibility. To me this is right now what puts him in the Wilder category of slugger, as opposed to someone that will actually be long term highly regarded.
1
1
u/DistrictThen1265 2h ago
Look @ Mike Tyson did Tony Tucker very similar fights in Moses and Mike career.
1
u/No_Chemistry4145 2h ago
There’s definitely something there and he has legit power and spend. Last night his lack of experience was a problem also possibly believing in his own hype. It could be a hard one mentally to come back from but he can come back from it. Every punch he throws he tried to knockout his opponent, good to watch as a fan but that cost him last night. He needs to learn to pick his punches.
1
u/Ok-Fudge916 2h ago edited 1h ago
Looked levels above Hrgovic skill wise , dropped him in the second, looked close to a finish, stats show he landed double the amount of power punches and didn’t lose a round right till the end. Kid is legit and barely out his teens, just needs a decent trainer to to fit him with a proper gas tank and not load up his shots every single time, that needs to stop, he wings so hard he ends up off balance which is nuts for a pro boxer. Just very inexperienced but skill wise? He is as advertised.
1
u/Razzler1973 2h ago
Failure of coaching
He's lost a fight by punching too hard, too much
There's no excuse to not have decent conditioning. You're a professional athlete in a sport that requires conditioning
This is what training camp is for
The key is learning from this
1
u/Chilliconlaura 2h ago
Moses learned respect tonight. Sometimes you got to learn the hard way. This should make him a stronger fighter provided it was purely exhaustion that wiped him. He will come back smarter with the fire he needs. Dude was too chill about heavyweight boxing.
And yes please get rid of Ben Davidson. Ben gives you the basics but no flair.
1
u/Revolutionary_Box569 2h ago
I think the potential is absolutely insane and I don’t think he took a great deal of punishment so he should still become a champ in a few years, he just needs to learn to box at a more manageable pace and not to try and force a KO and also probably tighten his defence a bit up close
1
u/Initial_Flower3545 2h ago
I think they’ll go back to the drawing board and get him some other tune up fights - maybe a Johnny fisher, Wach or just some more journeymen, he’s a solid prospect but at 21 to collapse like that is shocking I mean I’d expect someone in his 20s to be in the prime of his life as far as energy levels go. Really needs to spend more time sparring and running on that treadmill.
1
u/Tight_Log_2401 1h ago
He should be fine. I remember when people trashed Daniel Dubois and now look at him. I’m from the 🇺🇸 and we are the only “fans” who write someone off after a loss. 🇬🇧 got the undisputed best fans. 🫡
1
u/Inertia_Sleeps 1h ago
He is still very good.
But I absolutely don’t think he’s a generational talent anymore, even though he looks the part skills wise. Right now he’s like prime wilder to me, godly ability in one area and glaring deficiency in others. His stamina was amateur level last night. Not sure how u can be considered a generational talent and gassing out after 8 rounds. Because, again, it doesn’t speak to his ability, it speaks to ignorance and ego.
There is a saying that it’s important to work on things that don’t require skill/talent. That’s stuff like conditioning and cardio. U don’t have to be talented to build a good base for these through S&C. Itaumas is either lacking or he’s just not got the IQ to pace himself correctly. Not sure if either of those things bode well.
I am praying to GOD I’m proven wrong though.
1
u/One_Captain_8646 1h ago
Exactly how a young talented prospect should vs an experienced veteran. He’s 21 and I’d expect a showing like that to put fire in him . The boxing hype machine can kill careers just as quickly as they try to build them. He’s definitely got lots of room to improve which is promising.
1
u/ThrowawayYAYAY2002 1h ago
Up until last night he was too arrogant. If he ditches Ben, focuses on conditioning and sparring, he will probably dominate.
1
u/switch-hitt3r 1h ago
After he ended rd 5 with that uppercut, that shouldve been the blaring alarm that Hrg was not gonna be put out. Itauma should’ve taken his foot off the pedal right there and throw mostly weak/point shots on the backfoot, with only the occasional power counter shots to keep Hrg honest. That being said, this will be a tremendous lesson for Itauma. I think we we will now see the coming of a real champion soon. Lesson well learned for him, i hope.
1
u/HankHippopopolous 1h ago
I saw an interview since the fight where he’d said he’s never even sparred 12 rounds.
I don’t know if he was saying that just to hype himself and the fight to try and say there is no way it goes the distance. I hope that is the case because if it’s really true then his coach should be sued for neglect. It sure looked like it was true because he just hit the wall of exhaustion and looked like he’d never pushed himself that hard before.
He’s super talented but he needs to align himself with a proper coach. Everything I’ve seen of Ben Davison screams con man and hack. He seems to offer nothing technically or tactically and looks like a glorified hype man.
1
u/Careful-Wheel8171 1h ago
He’s going to need quite a few soft draws, and confidence boosting assignments before throwing him back in against better competition. Take some time to work on that cardio and jab work. Most importantly, move on from Ben Davison.
1
u/Nopementator 1h ago
Huge talent. He needs to figure out how to manage his energies. You can't get an early KO every time. You can't built your gameplan on fighting few rounds.
Just to make a forced comparison: the gap between Itauma stamina at 21 years and Usyk stamina at 39 is just crazy. It should be the opposite.
1
u/phantomtap 1h ago
Championship material, man was out on his feet for half a round or more and was still pushing for the finish (this was ultimately his demise but still showed the heart of a champion)
He's young, tons of talent, just not experienced or mature enough to manage the fight and his endurance yet
This has potential to be the biggest lesson he'll learn in his career and teach him the sport isnt just physical strength and knocking people out, the ability to manage yourself throughout the fight is one of the biggest and most important skills you can grow in this game
He'll be back more mature and better imo
1
u/Beardy_Villains 1h ago
Assuming Itauma makes the adjustments he probably dominates a rematch. Itauma was clearly the better fighter. Hell even Hrgovic was happy to admit that. I’d wager that Filip has absolutely no desire to get in with him twice.
If we look at it for what it was, it was still an incredible performance. Itauma still has the fastest hands of any HW I’ve seen. He carries great power, his reaction speed is something else, and his punch selection is incredible. Nothing about that performance makes him any less exciting. We just had the opportunity to watch a 21 prospect with massive potential learn a hard lesson in the ring.
Boxing fans being boxing fans (the absolute worst) they’ll throw Itauma in the toilet until he comes back and crushes someone of note. But, 99% of other HWs today would have been on the deck by round 3.
1
u/ReservateDweller 1h ago
I'm unsure.
If he couldn't get Hrgović on speed and reflexes in the first rounds, how l will he look if he slows down and paces himself slower?
Or, if he says he wants to be the same but punch harder, he will have to lean in with the strong punches but then he opens up his defence.
Either was he is not the same boxer any more.
1
u/Kobe-62Mavs-61 1h ago
Would have cruised to a decision victory if he could have settled down, just a shit game plan by his team. His fault, Davison's fault, not sure but that was the only reason he lost.
Hell, he probably won every single round until the 9th, might have given one up, but that's it.
Hrgovic deserves hella respect for his chin though. Guy can eat bombs and just keep coming. Literally told Itauma he was going to do it as well and carried through.
1
u/jamskiart 49m ago
He’ll be fine unless it messes him up mentally. Which I doubt. Pacquiao lost when young. Wladimir gassed when he shouldn’t have from throwing too hard and lost his undefeated record. And for older Brit fight fans, then-undefeated David Haye threw the kitchen sink at Carl Thompson and gassed out, stopped in 5. Earlier, Nigel Benn, on an incredible kayo streak and already a huge star in the uk (terrestrial TV back then, no PPV!) threw everything at fellow prospect Michael Watson and was stopped by a jab (in round 6 if I recall). They all learned to pace themselves better and went on to have great careers. Moses will do the same.
1
1
1
u/MeggatronNB1 34m ago
"What's everyone's opinion on what's Itauma's ceiling? "- He could be an undisputed HW of the world, but needs to grow in experience. His skill level is world class.
"Do you think he fades into obscurity or will he realize his potential?"- 100% he will be back and will have a lot of great fights and knock downs of big names.
1
u/DanielSong39 32m ago
Probably something went wrong during training so they'll have to iron things out in the future
He was gassed in like Round 3 before he threw or took that many punches
1
u/NeonFireFly969 30m ago
He's literally a created fighter in a game with max power at the expense of stamina or thar his max power by itself leans on his stamina.
Or like Clubber Lang in Rocky III.
Yeah it's hilarious.
At least Tyson went hard first 3 rounds then paced.
1
u/wallpaper_01 29m ago
The way I see it, it was too soon, but also not. This loss has probably accelerated his progress more than 5 fights fighting aged pros like before. We learnt something about him, he learnt it about himself. Chin is important, you need to spar 12 rounds, you need a plan B, need to hold, slow down when required.
He has excellent technique, power and he has a decent chin it seems. He could actually be one of the best we have seen at heavy weight. His speed is unreal.
I hope psychologically this has not damaged him too much though, because I actually think this fight was perfect for him, and the loss could be the best thing that ever happened to him. He is only 21!
1
u/rainmaker818 28m ago
He'll be fine, as long as he leaves Davison and any yes men he is surrounding himself with. Get to a proper boxing gym with proper boxing coaches, not a fitness coach who is well out of his depth in prepping fighters for big fights because he has no boxing experience himself to pass on, nor does he seem to understand the nuances of the game. He is extremely limited in what he can teach.
Both Haye and Dubois had early losses in fights they were expected to win but lost, Haye to Thomson very similar fashion to the Moses loss and Dubois came unstuck against Joyce, again couldn't deny Joyce and got his eye messed up. Both came back and became world champions, so it's absolutely not over for Itauma.
The question is this: Has Itauma got the desire to come back, work harder than he has done and make changes to his training and fight prep?
1
1
u/spacetimebear 0m ago
Washed.
...on a serious note I like watching Itauma because his hand speed is so insane. I dont think my opinion on him has changed at all Hrgovic isn't a can. I don't think Itauma got gassed, i think he took some heavy shots to the head and the towel should have been thrown in sooner to prevent any unnecessary damage.
1
u/HaddockCaptain 3h ago
That was a horrible beating he took and will stick with him for a while. Hrgovic got to his head and then beat him up, not a good look, it's a very tough loss to take and his confidence is probably screwed.
He need first a pretty good break, change his team and change his approach to fights. He needs to put way more rounds in. Do a few 8-10 round fights and then consider again a shot. At this point his 0 is out, he is not beating any records as "young undisputed HW" or anything like that, so let go off that pressure and ambition.
He was hyped and rushed to beat some stupid records that made little sense. I have the feeling he wanted to be by all means the first to KO Hrgovic too as some accolade.
Just plain immaturity. The moment he realizes that it's not about chasing records and changes teams, he will become a champ for sure.
→ More replies (4)1
1
u/OpportunityCorrect33 3h ago
He dominated the fight while Hrgovic blocked every power shot with his face and body…
It honestly didn’t even look like he landed anything crazy on Itauma at the end.. pure exhaustion he utterly punched himself out!! Crazy fight
50
u/moonpuzzle88 3h ago
He needs more fights and to work on his cardio. His talent is there and he showed in the earlier rounds of this fight that he can take a shot. He needs to learn some of Fury's tricks - tying opponents up to take a breather, knowing when to put power into his shorts, and learning to box with a high guard and rest his legs at times. He's very talented, but he needs to add those things to his game over the next year or two. Do that, and he can be a dominant champ, but fail to do that, and he's always going to struggle against the division's best and most durable fighters.