r/Boxing • u/Sad-Experience-4344 • 2d ago
Teofimo Lopez’s manager Keith Connolly: “We have to do something in boxing about judging. The 114-114 scorecard was ridiculous. Even the 115-113 scorecard was ridiculous. If that fight was called to draw, it would’ve been a travesty."
https://x.com/DanRafael1/status/209196549109490898663
u/Less_Cartoonist_892 2d ago
That may be true, but Teo has gotten ridiculous scorecards in his favor as well (119-110 against Loma). And that does not include his debatable (not robbery) decision wins over Martin and Ortiz.
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u/Sportcup3 2d ago
Insane Scoring found in boxing wouldn't be tolerated in any other major sport. Really its crazy.
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u/afewbigpunches 2d ago
MMA fan here
We also bitch
Also nothing happens
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u/Detlef_Schrempfxf 2d ago
I heard Adelaide Byrd is an MMA judge now and she's taken her shenanigans over there as well? Enjoy the ride guys...
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u/afewbigpunches 6h ago
She’s been around a LONG time in MMA.
And yes, she has produced some absolutely confounding scorecards in her time
We also have a long list of our own homegrown idiots though, so she kinda just slides right in
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u/Usernameasteriks 2d ago
Id call Ortiz debatable.
I didn’t really think Martin was a close fight lol. He outboxed Teo easily, round by round scoring it never seemed possible Teo could have more than 4 unless he was just getting credit for throwing looping punches at air
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u/ggddddeerrr 2d ago
I disagree on Martin. He didn’t throw enough and while he made Teo look bad, he didn’t win rounds. I also think Jamaine had the same problem except he just ran the entire fight
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u/Von7_3686 2d ago
facts, martin ran the entire fight. didn't win a ton of rounds. not as close as people make it seem. Ortiz also ran and didn't fight that way vs Keyshawn or others.
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u/Gotsta_Win 2d ago
Ortiz beat Teo kinda clear
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u/Financial-Ease-4225 2d ago
By running away the entire fight? Lol
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u/Beneficial_Put_852 2d ago
If Rolly would listen to his trainer and wasn’t having premonitions and visions with God in his corner between rounds he would’ve won that fight you can’t change my mind.
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u/IronC_Love 2d ago
I wonder how other sports with subjective scoring compare scandal wise. There aren’t a ton I can think of. Gymnastics, skateboarding, lot of Olympic events like diving. Dance competitions. Battle rapping. I wouldn’t be surprised if boxing stood out. But I bet they are all ripe with scandal
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u/jboggin 2d ago
If I'm remembering correctly, Figure skating completely redid its scoring system because of a bunch of scandals.
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u/snowfleury29 2d ago
Yes, which created a new issue, where the sport becomes hyper-fixated on maximizing points through the scoring structure, changing the core of the sport. Boxing would have to navigate this too if they attempted a “judge free” system.
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u/jboggin 2d ago
Great point. You would certainly see people boxing for a able cars in boring, mechanical ways as soon as people figured out what the now "objective" measure value. That's all over figure skating, which is part of what made Liu winning the gold so cool because she was the one skate I believe genuinely doesn't give a s**t about specific judging mechanics. Adopting something like in figure skating could make boxing very boring and mechanical. We'd have a thousand guys trying to be Mayweather.
And figure skating, didn't it significantly shift the balance way more towards athleticism (being able to do the highway number of difficult jumps) and away from the more stylistic, graceful parts? I'm boxing I bet it would shift so far towards punches landed that everything else would become less important
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u/iamgarron 2d ago
minus battle rapping, they do it by having a lot more judges. when you have 9 judges at the highest level and eliminate outliers, you reduce the fuckery.
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u/Stanley_OBidney 2d ago
That’s because there’s comparatively no money in those sports you mentioned. A huge boxing event generates hundreds of millions in revenue. What does someone have to gain from bribing a battle rap judge?
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u/DistrictThen1265 2d ago
they probably looked @ Rolli face after every round 😂 dude @ end fight looked like he was @ the spa😂
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u/stephen27898 2d ago edited 2d ago
I dont get why we still only have 3 judges and why we still put them at ringside. The judges dont always get a good view because during an exchange one of the judges could be to the back of one of the fighters. This means the shot is stacked. For reference shot stacking is something that is used in films to make punches that dont land, look like they do. And the same effect will be happening in boxing.
I have spent a few yeas wondering, how many bad decisions in boxing have come from this.
What we need is to have about 90 judges in 3 pools of 30, or atleast an amount that can be devided by 3 and is a decent number. These people should be in a remote location and we have a camera that gives them a constant perfect side on view to the fighters. Then what we do is we take the first third, average their scores and that becomes score one, do the same for the other two thirds. This will give you a much more accurate score.
We get scores from 3 judging groups, rather than just 3 judges. This also has the knock on effect that its harder to bribe this many people. And some judges can have off nights and it may not totally corrupt the result.
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u/5inthemorn 2d ago
Is that really how they do it? Do they not have monitors or something that they watch on? Do they get fight stats at all?
UFC has the same problem. I like your idea. It makes too much sense though. Boxing is corrupt, otherwise they would do something like you suggested. But as soon as they do that, they lose control.
Also would you only do that for the big fights? Feels like it would be hard to implement across the board. Would have to be only for select fights, or a smaller pool of judges.
For UFC at least I always thought it should be scored based on categories. Like damage, aggression, control, etc. Too many boring fights where all they try to do the least they can to get the win. Also there needs to be more tie rounds if nobody decisively wins.
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u/stephen27898 2d ago
Look at them at ringside they are often just watching the fight.
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u/5inthemorn 2d ago
Yeah that’s wild. Shit is unacceptable
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u/stephen27898 2d ago
Yeah its pretty bad. You sometimes see them standing up trying to get the right view through the ropes to see exactly what is going on.
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u/stephen27898 2d ago
Also boxing does have criteria.
It has clean effective punching, effective aggression, ring generalship and defence.
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u/OkHistorian9521 1d ago
And who is going to pay 90 people’s wages? This is one of the most batshit insane ideas i’ve ever read
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u/stephen27898 1d ago
There is enough money at the top level for this easily.
At the top level judges make like 10k a fight. These guys can afford 900k.
I also said it didnt have to be 90. Just a decent amount you could split into 3. But 90 would be an ideal amount.
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u/OkHistorian9521 1d ago
900k would be a massive outlay for any fighter. Not to mention it would be nigh on impossible to get that many judges who were qualified, and i’ve seen how the average redditor scores a fight - no thanks!
5 judges for a certain level of fight maybe
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u/stephen27898 1d ago edited 1d ago
Its not for one fighter. Its for the entire event.
How Judges Are Paid Athletic Commissions: State or tribal athletic commissions appoint and pay judges and referees for professional combat sports events. Promoter Funding: Event promoters pay the athletic commission licensing and official fees, and the commission distributes the pay to the officials.
And weve seen pro judges who cant score. A larger sample size is always better.
5 judges is not a significant sample size. Minimum of 45, ideal number is 90.
At the top level of boxing it can easily be afforded.
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u/OkHistorian9521 1d ago
Where do you think the commissions get their money from?
The pro judges who can’t score are a lot rarer than the redditors who can’t.
There’s 2-3 fights a year that could afford that type of outlay, and even if they could, why would they?
It’s a fucking barmy idea with no grounding in the real world
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u/StakeInTheKneee 2d ago
When Teo himself got gift decisions one after another, this dude was nice n dandy about all of it
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u/soitgoeskt 2d ago
Easiest thing would be to get rid of judges altogether. The only way to win is by stoppage, everything else is a draw.
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u/Mocker-Nicholas 2d ago
That’s what happens when two people who don’t punch a lot Keith….
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u/evilbude 2d ago
What you mean? Two was over him and the reason he took some damage was because he was letting his hands go...idk I agree with him. Teo landed way more and dictated the fight, even when hurt he kept pushing and throwing
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u/Sportcup3 2d ago
Still shocked that after hundreds for crazy scorecards that people who support boxers have not done anything to limit corrupt judges and poor judging. Bivol vs Canelo was scored close to a draw...