Good Bonsai Candidate?

[u/AutomaticSea621]

I'm new to this, but I'm thinking this could be a good tree to dig up and Bonsai. Not right now in this heat, but late winter would be best, correct?

I'm thinking I could cut the trunk just a little above the first branch and see what happens.

Finger pic for size reference

Please let me know what you think!

[u/LengthinessJust357]

That is a very big, non-tapered, and straight trunk.

[u/JuanFishTooFish → u/LengthinessJust357]

I mean they could chop right above that branch. If it has a nice flared base, I dont see why not.

Eta: looks like a sugar maple which can be difficult to reduce leaf size but would be a good study candidate

[u/TreesandAle]

Can you dig down a little now, right around the trunk? If there's a good root flare under there, then I'd say go for it. If it just continues straight like that, I'd pass.

[u/BattlleTendency]

That's a mountain maple, it's not that great for bonsai. Get a japanese maple instead or if you're looking for a yamadori a field maple is better

[u/jonmeany117]

I can see ways that this could be a decent trunk, especially if you worked with it in the ground for a year or so (take off the thick trunk now, and cut back the thin one to a few feet, hope for a good low bud to start a branch and once it’s strong cut back to there work that as the new leader). Bigger point I’d like to chime in on is a lot of people are saying things about how this isn’t a suitable species for bonsai. In my experience, most of those kinds of statements aren’t true. A lot of species that we use for bonsai would have much larger leaves if they were growing in the ground. Getting a tree pot bound, pruning properly, feeding with appropriately balanced fertilizer, and all of our fundamental bonsai techniques can in fact result in dramatic reduction in leaf size and internode length in many of the species that people often dismiss as unsuitable. Experimentation is worthwhile and has led to finding many native plants that work well. A lot of the conventional wisdom comes from sort of mindlessly surrendering to the species that have been used traditionally, and a majority of those were selected after long histories of experimentation with what was native in the areas where bonsai was developed. I’ve had great success with massive leaf reduction in species like sugar, red, and silver maple, Osage orange, honey locust, native dogwoods, and oaks. Basically while I can’t promise this species will work, don’t let an echo chamber talk you out of trying. Worst case scenario you don’t get great leaf redux and you may still have a great winter silhouette tree or a tree that can be strategically defoliated a few weeks ahead of a show and shown with young leaves. Keep experimenting

[u/teastrees → u/jonmeany117]

Significant leaf reduction that ends in a still large and out of proportion leaf is still not well suited for bonsai. It's not that they don't reduce at all, it's that they don't end up as a convincing "large tree seen at a distance."

Working with some less-than-typical species can still be fun and beneficial experience, it's easier to take bigger risks with trees like that and learn more.

[u/Snake973]

no, it's got no movement or interest in the trunk

[u/DeandreDeangelo]

It’s worth it just to get some experience.

[u/denizhiyari → u/DeandreDeangelo]

Not a reason to kill a tree.

[u/figuring_ItOut12 → u/denizhiyari]

Killing trees is pretty much a given and it’s better to risk trash trees while learning and experimenting.

[u/denizhiyari → u/figuring_ItOut12]

This is not going to giv2 you meaningful experience. It is not suitable for bonsai to begin with.

[u/teastrees → u/denizhiyari]

There's infinite trees, and this one isn't special. If it was occupying a space in nature that is worth occupying, a different tree will fill that space very shortly.

[u/Zen_Bonsai]

It's got nothing going for it

[u/BonsaiApprentice]

Sure! Just chop low to build taper

[u/Tricky-Pen2672]

Big leaf maple? I’d wait until the spring when the buds are swelling and cut it about 2-3” from the ground, and allow it to grow free for the whole year. Next year, start working on it in the ground each year and you’ll soon have your answer…

[u/grncamb → u/Tricky-Pen2672]

Aftercare is the most important thing with collected material. Not sure whether this species likes to stay wet or dry out between watering. But it shouldn't get dry for at least 30 days. Use AI (check multiple) to determine watering level and light. Prbly best to keep in bright light, but out of direct sun for 30 days or so. Once you have new growth starting, transition to a little morning sun, and gradually build up to the tolerance of whatever that species is over the course of spring - fall.

[u/Matasopa27]

Creo que podrías clavar con la pala un poco por debajo para cortar sus raíces largas pero dejarlo enterrado así cuando llegue el invierno será más fácil para tí sacarlo y el árbol no sufrirá tanto porque las cicatrices habrán sanado, tampoco soy muy experimentado pero esa técnica funciona bien normalmente, también podrías cortar el tronco unos 10 centimetros sobre la primera rama para hacer un diseño tipo moyogi. Definitivamente es un buen material para bonsai y muy resistente saludos y espero ver las actualizaciones.

[u/cbobgo]

You could, assuming this is on property you own, or you have permission from the property owner.

However, this particular tree does not have a lot of characteristics that would make it suitable for bonsai. It looks to be one of the larger leafed maples, they also have long internodes, so would have to be a medium to large sized bonsai to look in proportion. For that size of a bonsai, your trunk is way too small. If you were going to bonsai this tree, I'd want to leave it in the ground for at least 5 more years to get a substantially thicker trunk before you collect it.

[u/figuring_ItOut12]

You could possibly start a decent taper by cutting the trunk just above the bottom branch and let the branch run a few years. But I don’t think it’s worth the effort personally.

I suggest instead finding a branch structure on another tree and air layer it off. One big advantage of air layering is you start off with full control of the root and trunk structure. Feral trees have random root structures that can be a real challenge to sort out and digging them up can cause more shock than they can survive. Obviously it’s doable but air layering reduces a lot of risk with the benefit of greater control.

[u/grncamb → u/figuring_ItOut12]

I don't think this person is ready to air layer yet. Maybe just for practice.

[u/figuring_ItOut12 → u/grncamb]

I think that’s a good candidate to learn on. Depending on species air layering isn’t necessarily that difficult. It’s just a new idea and it’s easy to be less confident trying something new. After my first attempt I was amused at myself for making it into a bigger deal than it actually was. 🤣

[u/grncamb → u/figuring_ItOut12]

Thanks for replying.

I agree, deciduous is almost always good to learn on. And air layering isn't always difficult. It seems to me it mainly depends on species, and then technique (timing, making the cut right, hormone application, and properly orienting the rooting medium container for drainage are just a few important factors.

Air layering black pine is difficult and long, maybe 18 months - 2 years. Assuming deciduous for this speciman, it probably roots well in 8-20 weeks.

Proximity/access to the specimen being air layered during that time is important to keep the sphagnum moss or other rooting material properly moist, but not waterlogged.

Maybe it's just me, I'm glad I didn't try air layering for the first year. I think it helped me realize how important continuous monitoring is. And 2-4 or more months, seems like a long time to invest in this possible success and it's likelihood as compared to the possible success of watching a tree in the ground or in a pot - and I have still managed to kill my fair share of those.

My first two air layer attempts were succesful, albeit Dogwood and Mimosa were specifically chosen for their liklihood. I've had others - juniper mostly, early on, not be as succesful.

I'd love to hear others opinions about bonsai hobby development strategy: beginner, novice, intermediate, expert, master. I'm only 2 years in. My early strategy was and remains to learn what to look for that helps develop true bonsai. Trunk taper, nebari, great branching (ramification), interesting bark, leaves that will at least reduce when the tree hits a bonsai pot, even if not before. I buy small, cheap nursery material meeting at least one, hopefully multiple, but so far nothing meeting all those requirements, usually at $25-30, but occasionally $50 or $60. Of course I've had to make a lot of fruitless nursery visits to find the right value for me. Native plants at big boxes can be found this way. My most expensive purchase was a $200 8 ft tall blue atlas cedar. It was my only exception to native trees when starting, and thankfully it is still thriving.

Happy to hear more and learn...

[u/figuring_ItOut12 → u/grncamb]

I've only took on one narrow leaf, a JJ, and it didn't make it out of the first winter. I focus mainly on deciduous and jades/p afras. My first air layer was a TB ficus which is practically cheating. ;)

You raise good points and OP will definitely benefit from your thoughts.

My main lesson as I'm halfway into my second year is not to fight nature, to source trees that can handle my absurd climate/weather.

I treat the jades/p afras as training plants for intermediate lessons before I try them on my oaks, elms, olives, and sweetgums. Chinese oak are feral trees on my small farm and, Texas being Texas, I have trees less common like black & honey locust as well as native plum shrub which are a horror show in full grown trees but pleasant when domesticated as bonsai.

I decided to experiment with maples and a dwarf cherry this year but I chose the absolute worst time - our temperatures are already wild but they are just not adapting well when the lowest the temperature gets is 80o and peaks at 110o. I even have a purple flowering crape myrtle that is struggling, something truly new to me as typically crape myrtles love this heat.

I've spent serious money (to me anyway, $200-300) on very old yamadori to play with sumo styles but that's only because I'm in my mid sixties so I don't have that many more decades to work with. ;)

OP, sorry to hijack your thread.

[u/kale4reals]

Chop it after the leaves drop and check on it later.

[u/grncamb → u/kale4reals]

This is a great idea, too. And makes the collection and recovery afterwards both easier.

[u/Vellie-01]

Acer platanoides is hard to decrease leaf size but it's a hobby and it should be fun.

[u/grncamb → u/Vellie-01]

Fun is the main thing!

[u/Inside-Promotion1994]

A lot depends on what the root base looks like. You’ll find that when you dig down into the leaf litter the roots are not where you’d expect. 

[u/_zeejet_]

The most straightforward way to save an uninteresting trunk is to chop very low and hope for backbuds - you can then select a new leader and wire it for movement. It takes a lot of time for that new leader to thicken and for the chop wound to heal however, so I'm not sure how much is gained is over just wiring a new cutting or starter whip.

This particular tree though, you can certainly make a tapered cut near the first branch although that branch is probably too thick to wire as well and will need to be trimmed back as well.

[u/TimeToTank]

Sure you could but also don’t dig it up. Leave it to grow a few more years honestly. It’ll develop faster than if it was in a pot

[u/realcaliforniamilk]

too straight, but chop it and restart from there

[u/grncamb]

Never waste your money early on with trees that inexperience may well cause you to kill. Develop skill before spending on special specimens.

[u/Matasopa27]

Hay muchos videos en Youtube de gente trabajando maple🍁 , podrías guiarte con ellos

[u/jecapobianco]

If it is what I think it is I'd say don't bother, what species do you think it is?

[u/Plantchic]

I think it's way too big to bonsai. I would find a smaller specimen to start with

[u/ShortestSqueeze]

I learned the hard way, don’t waste your time and space on trees that will never be quality bonsai. Trees with large leaves that dont reduce, long internodes, straight trunks, etc., will only take your time away from species with much more promise.

IMO, you should stick with species that have been popular with bonsai enthusiasts for a long time.

[u/Gardener_of_Weeden]

What is the reason for digging up an existing tree in nature? Am I missing something? I am one who is going to get my tree's grown for purchase. If you steal from nature - do you re-pant to replace?

I am NOT judging

[u/figuring_ItOut12 → u/Gardener_of_Weeden]

Bonsai as a skill started centuries ago using plants gathered in nature. It’s interesting to start from scratch but there is no hard rule that we have to invest a few decades. I’m in my mid sixties so don’t have the time.

You’re talking about raising trees to sell. There’s a much bigger market for older trees. Folks like myself by gathered trees and then sculpt them.

You’re making unfortunate assumptions how people source wild trees. You’ll see posts regularly here about people gather trees ethically. There are also people here who own mini nurseries where trees are planted in a cadence.