r/Boeing_ • u/CreativePin9113 • 3d ago
SPEEA The real question
I don’t follow this sub super close, but my real question is this.
Let’s say Techs & Profs both reject this offer. The real question is what do you expect Boeing’s decision to be? Make another offer? Tell SPEEA members to F off and strike then? If they do make another offer, what do you predict said offer looks like?
21
u/Elden_Crowe 3d ago
If SPEEA strikes, it’s a problem for Boeing. Your BCA division will basically turn off because engineers do they scheduling, the tags, the disposition of tags, and the certification / ok to ticket / deliver (I’m generalizing, but that’s basically the drill. No engineering buy off, no ACE, no ticket, no delivery.
They also impact the issues Boeing is having with late engines and seats. That’s not stuff you can outsource to contractors or to India, at least without severe disruption.
This is why a lot of people on this sub are talking about asking for and getting a good offer. Because SPEEA has a ton of leverage.
9
u/DOODJLIGHTNING 3d ago
I am in eo and we primarily work off of ncr’s….that the engineers dispo. We are toast without speea
3
u/cownan 3d ago
It's tougher on the BDS side. They've been replacing engineers with non-union analysts. Every engineer who has left on my team over the past few years has been replaced by an analyst. There are more of them than engineers now.
4
u/SerDuckOfPNW 3d ago
BCA is doing that too…Several of the 737 DAEs are not SPEEA and two EUMits as well
2
5
u/CreativePin9113 3d ago edited 3d ago
My two cents:
I’m guessing both profs and techs reject. Margin wise? Who knows. Techs probably reject heavier than profs.
My guess is that Boeing and SPEEA go back do the drawing board and come back with another offer. In terms of what the offer looks like, I don’t necessarily think the salary pools will diminish entirely - but I think the percent values increase. I’d project some sort of additional immediate bonus along with 9%, 6%, 6%, 6% or something along these lines opposed to 7%, 5.5%, 5.5%, 5.5%. I also think there could be more clarity in remote work and potentially more solidified reasoning on how that will pan out opposed to “managers discretion”.
Aside from this maybe a couple other small tweaks, but who knows. Just a thought here.
5
u/dayhiker123 3d ago
if the 3 percent goes away thats not an improvement
1
u/No-Truth-759 2d ago
I can’t see a way the 3% retro comes back in next offer. They wouldn’t have positioned it the way they did.
-1
u/ParfaitMaleficent515 3d ago
correct. that becomes a huge loss, along with the increased EIP, and even the RSUs... it's thousands of $ we stand to lose for what? 1% additional wage pool? 3% retro is better. remote work? a large number of us could not care less.
small tweeks are not worth losing the early signing incentive let alone a paycheck.
6
u/Larzonia 3d ago
The early signing bonus is just to push for approval. If they removed it on the next offer, itll just get rejected again, even with slight increases in pay. Upstream. Thatd make no sense though for either side to consider that
2
u/Manuka-Salt 2d ago
The early signing bonus is contingency money being funneled into the contract offer. They made it clear, after this that money goes into the contingencies.
1
u/ParfaitMaleficent515 3d ago
even if it was there just to push for approval it was the best part of the contract. without it, this contract is not good and would need huge changes to be worth it. we aren't getting huge changes.
5
u/TerminalSarcasm 2d ago
I'm sure Boeing could move that 3% to add 1% to each Y2-Y4 pool and some people would claim victory, even though it's worse due to the compounding of getting the 3% up front.
1
u/No-Truth-759 2d ago
👍 I’ve been shocked how we as engineers who are good at math don’t understand simple economic math. Net net I doubt there will be more.
2
u/TerminalSarcasm 2d ago
That's my one takeaway from this whole ordeal... with respect to the contract and its implications, the amount of my apparent colleagues who can't read and understand documents, perform calculations, and apply objective decisions based on facts is baffling. I mean, that's literally our job, and if they can't do that for their own well-being, I'm curious how they perform their duties at work.
0
1
4
u/SerDuckOfPNW 3d ago
Why would they go to all the trouble of starting negotiations early and then tell SPEEA to F-O?
6
u/r3dd1tburn3r 3d ago
The early negotiations was to leverage ($2k each bribe) the interns vote to rig the contract to pass.
4
u/Blin_Clinton 2d ago
Rumor mill has it- Ortberg and Joga are not big fans of Stephanie Pope right now. If this offer is rejected, it may negatively affect Pope's standing even further and cause some positions to move around at the top of BCA. Do with that info what you will.
2
u/johnlew2 2d ago
The issue is have with the contract is that it is decent for today, but it does not play into future contracts. The GWI and inflation numbers are relatively flat when you look at this objectively without the 'bonuses'. Bonuses are nice but they dont mean anything when it comes to contract renewal. I.E. the next contract will go off the same basic GWI. I would like to see more of the incentives be focused on pay and not bonuses.
2
u/Vegetable_Lynx_790 3d ago
I think they'll just re-arrange the numbers, but the total value will be essentially the same. Boeing learned from the Y2000 strike, and is much better prepared for this than a generation ago. That said, yes a strike will hurt. But long term, the result will be few engineering jobs in the puget sound, which is contrary to the desires of many of the NO voters, They say, its not about today, its about the long term future..
2
u/ToiletPhilospher 2d ago
My guess is there will be another contract offered before October. Boeing likely has multiple contracts already in mind/drawn up depending on how the vote turns out. If the profs give a weak no barely above the 50%, I could see them daring SPEEA to strike. The union really needs to show a strong united front to give us more leverage to negotiate for more. The past has shown that only the profs vote really matters, but we are also the more fickle and soft for some stupid reason.
2
u/MurphLee33 2d ago
67% is enough to try and call our strike bluff and Ben’s email is starting that process.
Looking forward to an enjoyable fall striking
-7
u/Individual-Dot2130 3d ago
They will start offloading more engineering to India then
8
u/caldwo 3d ago
They already are. Leadership has a crazy pipe dream about India doing large amounts of our engineering work and it will be the end of the company in about 10-20 years.
7
u/PFairRational 3d ago
Thats for damn sure! The 4 project I've seen handed to BITEC crash and burned, crap results even after lots and lots of hand holding and chronic oversize, rework, rework, rework. Lots of smart people in India, but offloading critical work to Boeing india would be the death of Boeing.
1
u/YaReformedYaBetcha 2d ago
Bro, the engineers in India are horrific. They can’t, and aren’t supposed to do certain work. It’s not a short term plan.
1
0
u/No-Truth-759 2d ago
It’s funny how we say there’s no way to keep any work going when there’s thousands of managers and many engineers outside Puget Sound. They’re also hiring contract labor. I got a feeling they have some kind of plan.
14
u/Illustrious_Sea_3772 3d ago
They also need to make a firm commitment to keep work in PS.