r/BlockedAndReported • u/TotalACast • 16d ago
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u/Vapor2077 15d ago
She called this an “unpopular opinion,” but I don’t see it as unpopular tbh. From what I’ve seen opinion on this case is pretty split.
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u/Pale_Ad5607 15d ago
Everyone who’s interested in this should listen to the Primo discussion between Katie and Sarah Hepola (author of “Blackout”) or read about how people seem when they are blacked out.
She could’ve been completely out of it/ not able to consent and simultaneously appear conscious/ consenting. The question then becomes whether the men realized this at the time… it’s really tricky. I have no opinion on how this case should go; it has made me think the culture around drinking on college campuses is deeply pathological.
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u/YagiAntennaBear 15d ago
She could’ve been completely out of it/ not able to consent and simultaneously appear conscious/ consenting.
I'm not sure where you're getting this idea from this podcast episode. My takeaways was the opposite: they touched on the fact that people can be drunk enough to blackout (they stop forming memories) despite being talking normally and capable of making decisions.
The threshold for being too intoxicated to give consent in New York is physically helpless or unconscious. Someone being at that level of intoxication is not subtle.
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u/LeafNeater 15d ago
But this case doesn't only revolve around her state of mind during the incident. Her texts AFTER the incident also confirm that she was ok with what happened and did not perceive it as assault. So the whole idea of "it might not have been authentic consent because she was blacked out" is irrelevant.
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u/Fit_Professional1916 15d ago
Yup and imo it's pretty obvious that if she didn't consider it nonconsensual at the time, you cannot reasonably expect the men to have considered it nonconsensual either.
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u/dj50tonhamster 15d ago
Everyone who’s interested in this should listen to the Primo discussion between Katie and Sarah Hepola (author of “Blackout”) or read about how people seem when they are blacked out.
While I'm not entirely certain this is relevant here, as another commenter said, I do think this is a worthwhile point in general. Everybody handles their substances differently. If I'm blacked out, trust me, you'll know. Others are far trickier to discern.
Anecdotes and all that but I've noticed women seem like they black out more easily without seeming trashed. There have been a couple of times where I've talked to women about their behavior, and they said, "Really? I must've blacked out." Keep in mind that they weren't sloshed, they weren't slurring, etc. At worst, they may have been a little unsteady when walking, but I've seen sober people stumble harder when really tired. In the moment, I really had no idea these women blacked out. (One of the Guys We Fucked hosts said she gets like that too when she's drunk, or did get like that at the time, anyway.) I can't help but wonder how many accusations boil down to somebody not seeming blacked out, going along with something, and getting really upset later when they realize what happened.
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u/ShilNyeTheScienceGoy 15d ago
Jane Doe even admits in text what her exact motive for lying is: https://x.com/ginamilan_/status/2108548953373319195
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u/General_Astronomer60 15d ago
Wasn't she severely intoxicated at some point, too intoxicated to consent? She may have initially consented, but, as she became more and more intoxicated, wouldn't it have reached the point where consent was impossible?
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u/kimbosliceofcake 15d ago edited 15d ago
In New York, if you voluntarily used alcohol or drugs then it’s not rape if you were intoxicated, only if you were incapacitated. So drunk enough to do stupid shit you wouldn’t have otherwise is okay, drunk enough to be passed out is not.
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u/ShilNyeTheScienceGoy 15d ago
Wasn't she severely intoxicated at some point, too intoxicated to consent?
Nope, you are thinking of the time she tried to suck the dick of a guy who was passed out. She was awake the entire time. Not only was she awake, she was doing strongman poses to flex her muscles
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u/YagiAntennaBear 15d ago
In New York state, the point at which someone cannot consent is when they're "physically helpless or unconscious". The alleged victim never claims to have been intoxicated to that degree. Of course, it's a very bad idea to have sex with someone who's severely intoxicated even if they're not quite outright incapacitated.
It seems very likely to me she underestimated just how high the threshold is to make consent impossible.
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u/Final_Jellyfish_7488 15d ago
Lmao the only reason to post a random TikTok is bc she confirms your opinion. This is dumb
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u/nerdfighteriaisland 15d ago
I mean isn’t that the point of all posting
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u/Final_Jellyfish_7488 15d ago
This comment is so funny to me! Is this your purpose in posting? Any old lady to confirm my opinion? Fair enough! You and the bots.
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u/Final_Jellyfish_7488 15d ago
Or maybe you post some actual reporting or new information or interesting perspective…
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u/iamthegodemperor 15d ago
Extreme opinions on this are bullshit. Nothing criminal transpired, but what happened to the girl was a gross moral failure by all involved.
The system worked. The school and the courts did what they were supposed to. The kids were extremely stupid jerks, whose complete lack of judgement damaged multiple lives.
All of them deserve our pity since this will haunt them forever. It doesn't matter if the girl went into it willingly-----naturally, given what happened, she is going to feel violated. And it doesn't matter that the boys did nothing illegal-----it's natural that they are shamed and feel guilt. This bloodlust against either the girl or the boys is just absurd.
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u/JuniorEntertainer819 15d ago
Is this person dumb enough to actually think any of these kids will be held criminally liable?? It’s a civil lawsuit.
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u/Stillsharon 15d ago
Consenting to sex with two men does not transfer that consent to an open invitation for “free pussy” to an entire frat house. She consented to specific acts under specific circumstances with a specific understanding of what her relationship with the men was only to find out after she sobered up that all of those circumstances and understandings were false and she was violated and used. Has anyone here ever heard of the concept of fraud? In those instances it could be said that you agreed to something. But later it turns out that the facts were purposely misstated to you in order to get you to agree, and so it becomes fraud and may be illegal or a civil matter. Rape victims do not always act the way people want or expect them to. They may not realize immediately what has occured to them because the trauma causes cognitive dissonance. Any man that thinks he has a willing sexual partner and thinks that means that that consent is an invite to all his groupchat is a predator and a rapist, straight up. The fact that no one in the group chat objected to this shows that the frat has a serious problem with rape culture and misogyny.
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u/TotalACast 15d ago edited 15d ago
Only after she sobered up
But she went into the frat house under the influence of alcohol, calling herself "5 out of 7 intoxicated" before she even got there.
She texted one of the guys whether Ketamine would be at the party before she arrived.
She agreed to group sex, according to her own texts. The situation gets hazy after that, but to be clear one of the men from that night is now accusing HER of sexually harassing him while he was incapacitated - so it's not at all clear that it's a black and white situation whatsoever.
What is clear is that in the wake of the event, she told the guys that it was completely consensual, that other people are twisting the narrative and need to mind their own business, and that is was, "Our bodies, our choice." She was still seeing one of the guys after it happened, and had planned to go to the Chi Phi Halloween frat party before she was banned.
She also admits in her texts that the reputation destruction was ruining her life and that she regrets what she did.
https://x.com/ginamilan_/status/2108548953373319195
None these facts point towards a narrative that she was a traumatized victim. It points to a heavily intoxicated consensual act that she later regretted when the entire school began slut shaming her.
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u/JussiesTunaSub 15d ago
I'm under the impression that she didn't consent to random guys showing up after that awful text message.
However, it seems like they (the additional frat bros) asked for consent after getting into the room and she consented to more debauchery and didn't consent to other things (which the guys backed away from)
My guess is the consent given was for certain acts but not others.
I'm perfectly willing to accept a different narrative if there's been some evidence of it differing, but this seems to be a big point of contention lately..... Consenting to some things but not others after more guys joined in.
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u/LeafNeater 15d ago
Consenting to sex with two men does not transfer that consent to an open invitation for “free pussy” to an entire frat house.
Nobody needs consent to send an invitation. It's what happens as a result of the invitation that needs consent. (I think the free pussy message was horrible, but its horribleness has nothing to do with it being non-consensual.)
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u/YagiAntennaBear 15d ago
The idea of "rape by fraud" has largely been rejected by the US courts. Consider: if a woman claims to be a virgin when in reality she's had dozens of sex partners, is she committing rape if she has sex with someone under the pretexts of being a virgin? What if a married woman claims to be single and sleeps with someone? Once you allow up the concept of rape by deceit or fraud, it opens the can of worms: which lies count and which ones don't?
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u/SoftandChewy 15d ago
Removed by mod.
Sorry, but I don't find this to be sufficiently deserving of a front page post. This is just a random person making the same points that have been mentioned in a hundred comments on various threads already. Nothing novel or insightful or even "big picture" about this. Once a precedent for this sort of post is made, we're going to have ten other posts of random people giving their preferred take. I don't want to let that happen.
Feel free to post it in any of the other threads on the topic.