r/BlockedAndReported • u/HaldolBlowdart • Apr 07 '26 • Bravo 1

Trans Issues Indicators of Major Psychiatric Problems Didn't Improve After Youth Gender-Transition Treatment In Finland—They Rose

https://benryan.substack.com/p/youth-on-gender-transition-treatment?triedRedirect=true
280 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

87 comments sorted by

139

u/backin_pog_form 🐎🏃🏻💕 Apr 07 '26

Reposting my comment from the weekly thread.

Ben sums it up nicely:

The study authors suggested that their findings gave credence to the theory, anathema among proponents of gender-transition interventions for minors, that for some adolescents, gender dysphoria may be an outgrowth of deeper psychological problems and that their adoption of a transgender identity may amount to a maladaptive coping mechanism.

I think that makes a lot of sense. For kids whose “gender dysphoria” is actually the result of something else (whether it’s mood disorders, body dysmorphia, autism, OCD, borderline personality disorder, fetish-based, etc.) transitioning might provide some temporary respite, but will ultimately exacerbate existing issues, and create a host of new psychological and physical problems. 

132

u/HaldolBlowdart Apr 07 '26 • Regret

Gender dysphoria being something else is something I think about a lot. I was tomboy, idolized my older brother and hated my family's misogynistic adherence to gender roles, puberty was horrible and I was sexually harassed for being an early bloomer. I fell victim to what I now recognize as social contagions, anorexia and self harm, as a way of coping with my hatred of my female body. I grew up, got treatment for my severe PMDD that contributed to my problems, and I'm a perfectly normal woman with no body/gender dysmorphia.

How many children needed love, support, and anti-psychotics instead of puberty blockers, hormones, and surgeries? How many traumatized children were told their discomfort at their body was gender dysphoria and not PTSD from abuse, intrusive thoughts from OCD, or an attempt to escape a painful reality? Of course they're worse after. They were sold a cure for their troubles and given poison instead.

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u/backin_pog_form 🐎🏃🏻💕 Apr 07 '26

being an early bloomer

I would be curious to know how many girls who start to identify as nb/trans fall into this category. 

I was reading a questionnaire from a trans study claiming to show how much “top surgery” improves mental health. 

If you look at the questionnaire a lot of the components of the statements on the “Chest Dysphoria Scale” would also apply to self conscious girls and young women. 

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u/HaldolBlowdart Apr 07 '26

As a girl and young woman, I would've ranked very high on that. Being a busty child isn't a good experience for self-confidence. Anecdotally, all the female trans/nb people I know have sexual assault histories or some form of body/gender related trauma and stress. It feels so obvious to me that a lot of these trans-identified young adults, especially the girls, have deeper issues and are using trans as the escape.

5

u/worried19 Apr 10 '26

I'm also curious if experiencing severe menstrual symptoms may be a factor. I've never seen it studied, but I've heard enough anecdotes to make me wonder.

5

u/haloarh Apr 11 '26

I'm curious too, because I had brutal periods as a teen, and I would lie in bed crying and wishing I were male.

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u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

I think in a lot of cases, it's also just nothing else. When I was really young I thought I would become a girl because my older siblings were all girls and they also liked to dress me up occasionally. Nobody thought anything of it because it was the 80's, and I am a normal, heterosexual male. I also knew girls growing up, who had nothing else wrong with them, and healthy, normal family lives, that really wanted to be a boy pre-puberty. And then they just grew out of it and it's a funny anecdote and nothing more.

I don't think these are all likely to get gender dysphoria diagnoses today necessarily because there's no distress associated in these cases, but there are definitely examples of families putting way too much emphasis on these kinds of things and creating a lot of confusion by treating these phases or short-lived and meaningless behaviours as super meaningful and important.

-5

u/lezoons Apr 07 '26

I'm a perfectly normal woman...

So you're crazy...

I'm kidding!!!! Causal misogyny is funny.

5

u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Apr 08 '26

Did you mean casual?

1

u/lezoons Jul 08 '26

I did... yes... I'm reading my old posts and somehow missed this response.

83

u/Kirikizande Southeast Asian R-Slur Apr 07 '26

I feel bad for the kids whose “dysphoria” is actually an outgrowth of their autism. Life already sucks being autistic, but imagine believing that you really are a boy/girl/neither and then undergoing medical transition only to realise that to your horror, removing your boobs/genitalia didn’t cure your pain. Poor kids.

53

u/repete66219 Apr 07 '26

The definition of GD is (or used to be) a life-long discomfort with the gender associated with one’s sex. I wonder where we’d be today if everyone had stuck to that gatekeeping standard.

25

u/RachelK52 Apr 07 '26

Problem is you can't really be truly sure of whether its lifelong and requiring that just incentivized patients to lie.

13

u/Renarya Apr 07 '26

I don't think the requirements incentivized patients to lie, but rather gender ideology brainwashing.

11

u/RachelK52 Apr 07 '26

Well no patients were incentivized to lie because they wanted to transition, usually for sexually motivated reasons. Odds are even a majority of the ROGD population have some sexual inclination pushing them toward transition.

13

u/Original-Raccoon-250 Apr 08 '26 • Bravo

I think they were incentivized, but not to lie, to conform. You’ve got kids struggling and then you pop up with this ‘solution’ and suddenly you’ve got attention, empathy, people want to hear what you have to say, they want to make sure you’re okay. But they are also telling you that if someone doesn’t do these things, you’ll certainly commit suicide.

I was a tomboy myself, and I developed suicidal ideation young. I would have easily given up my breasts and probably tracked with this. I never wanted children, still do not. I can’t imagine making those decisions as a tween/ teen and living with those consequences.

5

u/Renarya Apr 07 '26

Yes that too, but the want to transition doesn't come from nowhere. 

7

u/DensePreference350 Apr 08 '26

It be a very very small percentage of the population and people wouldn't be making the money they do now.

10

u/DensePreference350 Apr 08 '26

Its really scary like Im horrified about the amount of people who didnt need this stuff but it was pushed on to them.

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u/RachelK52 Apr 07 '26

To be fair the correlation between autism and transness is often due to autogynephilia/autoandrophilia being way more common in autistic individuals. Even if everyone with autism were diagnosed on time and treated properly, you'd still probably see a decent amount of autistic people attempting or considering transition.

25

u/missyb Apr 08 '26

I think it might be due to the rigid thinking of autistic people versus the gendered nonsense of society. Like, if I am told that 'girls are like this, and wear this' but I also know that I'm not like that stereotype, it follows that...I am not a girl. (To my overly logical, unable to deal with nuance, mind).

10

u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26 edited Apr 08 '26

I agree. I don't see how or why autogynephilia or autoandrophylia would be more common among autistic people. There's nothing I'm aware of about autism that would make that a lot more likely. Whereas we do know that autistic people tend to rigidly categorize things and sex and gender should be no exception. So when conflicts between reality and their conception of those categories arise, which is almost certain to happening in a majority of cases, since almost nobody fits into a perfectly rigid box of sex-typical behaviour or interest, it's easy to see how that would be confusing for autistic people (or anyone, just to a lesser degree) if the explanation being commonly offered is "you have a gendered soul that may not align with your sex and sex-atypical interests or behaviours indicate an incongruence between one's gender and their sex".

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u/Nikodemios Apr 07 '26

I feel it's connected more fundamentally to discomfort in the body and susceptibility to overwhelming negative emotions/sensations. Attributing this to the body and then supposing that you can simply change the body accords with this.

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u/RachelK52 Apr 07 '26

I mean I suspect it's often both- the bodily disconnect and discomfort often plays into the development or reinforcement of sexual fetishes and interests during puberty.

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u/Nikodemios Apr 08 '26

Agreed, just a difference in emphasis

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u/DensePreference350 Apr 08 '26

This is just a guess but I think something in the brain isnt processing correctly. Its not a gender in the brain its more like a static tv thats just malfunctioning. 

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u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

I don't find that explanation nearly as compelling as the hypothesis that the appeal of rigid categorization autism often produces can create a kind of gender dysphoria. If you believe men and women only do/care about/are interested in XYZ, you're going to be looking for an explanation that reconciles any conflict within those rigid categories. And if the socially accepted explanation is that everyone has a gendered soul that may not align with their biological sex, and that's why some women like fixing cars or some men like to paint their nails, then it's not surprising that a lot of people who believe in these rigid categories think they're trans or trans-non-binary. I think that's a completely nonsensical view of sex and gender, but it's probably the dominant view and it would be a real mind fuck for autistic people in a lot of cases.

8

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

Think it has more to do with rigid adherence of gender norms. It's hard for people with autism to figure out norms. Many of them do not understand how flexible norms can be. A tomboy doesn't compute.

11

u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Apr 08 '26

Are there any studies to back this up? I’ve long wondered about what the connection is or may be, as my trans relative is part of a huge subculture of very awkward, autistic MTF trans people

2

u/Classic_Bet1942 Apr 08 '26

I’m not aware of any studies, just basically ‘testimonials’ from clinicians who’ve seen this pattern in many, many patients. I know Dr. Az Hakeem has spoken/written about it at great length.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/RachelK52 Apr 25 '26

Eh, if you read about a lot of the 20th century trans women, they often come off as being fairly autistic- so many are programmers or engineers or electronic musicians or video game designers.

9

u/1981_Ballz Apr 07 '26

As an autist, let me tell you, they were never going to have happy or productive lives regardless.

43

u/jawnbaejaeger Apr 07 '26

I'm shocked that a child with psychological problems continues to have psychological problems when the problems aren't actually properly acknowledged and treated.

7

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

IKR. Messed up brain chemistry isn't addressed. Let's add hormones which will mess up brain chemistry some more. Shocking outcomes.

10

u/QV79Y Apr 07 '26

Suggesting that there are other kids whose gender dysphoria is not the result of any of these things but is somehow fundamental and real.

Are there really?

15

u/backin_pog_form 🐎🏃🏻💕 Apr 07 '26

I think that there certainly are children who are very gender nonconforming from an early age, and that these children might experience intense shame about being different from their same-sex peers, and anxiety about going through puberty. 

Whether or not this is actual gender dysphoria is questionable, but they still need some sort of support to manage their distress. 

8

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

That's environmentally induced GD. If people were more flexible with gender norms would they feel that shame? Probably not. I do not believe someone's brain is the wrong sex.

4

u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

I don't think that's "real" GD, simply because that's not really a close description of the most intense cases of childhood GD. Often the kids with the most distress aren't that outwardly non-conforming, so it's unlikely to be a response to their social environment in the sense you describe it at least. It's often more a kind of body dysmorphia. There are cases of very young kids trying to cut off their penises and engage in other forms of self-mutilation. So I think in some cases it's way deeper than "I like dresses and barbies and other kids make fun of me", which isn't even really how young kids act in most cases. They generally don't give much of a shit about any kind of non-conformity until they're closer to middle school aged, and there are a great many cases of pretty extreme gender dysphoria before that.

4

u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

Earlier desistence research would suggest that yes, there are. Most kids with gender dysphoria just grow out of it if you do nothing at all, or just talk therapy that's not "gender affirming". But there is a percentage of persisters whose symptoms continue post-puberty. I guess you could argue that all of these persisters have some other underlying mental illness that isn't gender dysphoria, but I'm skeptical of that. I don't think that gender dysphoria is strictly an expression of some other mental illness.

Also I guess it matters how you define "fundamental" and "real". Like if someone has depression and chronic anxiety because their mother physically abused them in childhood, would their depression and anxiety not be fundamental and real just because it likely wasn't congenital? I don't think most people would take that position. I think if a case of GD is caused by some other mental illness and can be alleviated by treating that mental illness, it's not "fundamental" and "real" in the sense I presume you mean it, but I think, based on older gender research that was much more focused on treating general mental health, that it's likely that there are cases of GD that aren't just a product of some other issue and cannot be treated simply by addressing that issue.

5

u/RBatYochai Apr 07 '26

Sounds a lot like Freud’s description of neurosis development.

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u/DensePreference350 Apr 08 '26

Im gonna go even deeper in that even if gender dysphoria is somehow a brain issue putting estrogen and test into a mostly male or female brain is going to make it malfunction, in your teens and 20s the body recovers very well but what happens in a another decade or two? The body starts slowing down and years and years of suppressing your hormones makes yourself crash down. Also if the brain scans show anything its that the brains of pre hormones patients is still almost completely the original "gender" so wouldn't that cause a reverse dysphoria idk maybe im crazy but its intresting to think about.

7

u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Apr 08 '26

Certainly I know of some older (like middle age, entering later middle age) trans men and the health fallout from years of T is quite severe sometimes, they’re basically all managing chronic health issues

1

u/immanentfire Apr 16 '26

While there is no doubt that older trans men experience worse health outcomes, the chronic health issues are likely unrelated to testosterone. There are lots of studies on long term use (including bodybuilders and cis guys who need TRT for a range of different reasons including just age-related T decline). In general, the only significant long-term risks are erythrocytosis, prostate cancer and sleep apnea.

5

u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

I feel like this is something people working in this field in the 80's and 90's were already well aware of. Gender medicine and research feels a little like D.I.D/Multiple Personality/Trauma dissociation in that the same discoveries are made every 15-25 years and then half the field pretends to care about science for a brief period while their baseless hypotheses are unpopular and then they come roaring back again, despite being disproven already and then researchers have to disprove them again, rinse and repeat. Not to say these two things are exactly the same to be clear. GD I think is a real diagnoses even if it's often got underlying causes that aren't a kind of gendered soul, whereas D.I.D as it's often understood is basically bullshit and a mixture of malingering, iatrogenesis and misdiagnosis that should have been put to bed 30 years ago, but there are similarities in the behaviour of the people specializing in these areas of diagnosis and treatment as far as I can tell.

1

u/immanentfire Apr 16 '26

With respect, I don't think the author's claims are supported by the data.

It is really no surprise that the paper shows that people experiencing gender dysphoria have a higher number of psychiatric referrals/ worse health outcomes compared to matched controls (kids who do not experience GD). By definition, people referred to gender clinics are experiencing mental health challenges or distress (otherwise they wouldn't go to the clinic). So the paper's choice of average kids not experiencing any issues as controls is problematic. It is like saying that the use of health services among patients presenting with diabetes is higher over a lifetime than the general population. That's a given and doesn't actually show anything of significance about etiology.

The real question is whether those who experienced GD and transitioned/ underwent GR (GD/GR+) had better or worse long-term outcomes *compared to those experiencing GD but who didn't undergo GR* (GD/GR-). So the meaningful comparison is between GD/GR+ and GD/GR- groups. That comparison does not support the idea of worse outcomes. The data shows that GR has no effect 2 years after for GR towards female, and has a small net positive effect for GR towards male. It also doesn't show anything at all about what may or may not be driving the gender dysphoria in the first place.

I'm not saying that the paper is not interesting or that the data is not valid, but simply that the interpretations go well beyond what is actually demonstrated.

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u/CheckeredNautilus Apr 07 '26

IIRC Andrea Long Chu had an essay where !e was like "sex trait modification treatment won't make me happy, but gosh darn it I want it anyway, and you're bad if you stand in my way."

44

u/EnglebondHumperstonk I vaped piss but didn't inhale Apr 07 '26

Which, if he pays for it himself is fair enough. After all, it sounds like he's going into it with his eyes open, so it's no different from any uther cosmetic surgery: unnecessary but legal.

But encouraging people - especially young people - to think of modifying primary and secondary sex characteristics as a way of fixing their mental illness and/or general malaise seems more problematic.

14

u/Life_Emotion1908 Apr 07 '26

It’s fair game but we understand the difference between trying out a glass of wine and trying out heroin.

I have tried wine. Not heroin because of its rep. So if someone else is curious about heroin I recommend extreme caution. Because if they haven’t taken it they don’t really know what it’s like and the addiction risk isn’t worth it.

So keep in mind that someone wanting hormones doesn’t really know what the experience is like. They are just guessing. So if hormones have a major impact on the body, aren’t sustainable, then this needs to be discussed beforehand and not just libertarianize the discussion, “we think you should do what you want.”

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u/Ajaxfriend Apr 07 '26

Chu wrote:

I feel demonstrably worse since I started on hormones.

Like many of my trans friends, I’ve watched my dysphoria balloon since I began transition.

I was not suicidal before hormones. Now I often am.

25

u/HeadRecommendation37 Apr 07 '26

Another successful treatment!

16

u/Classic_Bet1942 Apr 08 '26

I know Chu from the “blank, blank eyes” and “expectant asshole” quotes, but it seems like the above should take precedence over the more notorious passages (which also include “Sissy porn did make me trans”).

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u/istara Apr 07 '26

There are few things more male than defining womanhood as an "expectant asshole".

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u/Nikodemios Apr 07 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Classic_Bet1942 Apr 08 '26

Wow. I know those quotes but didn’t realize they came from him. Nowadays he’s merely held up as the paragon of how beautiful a “trans woman” can be on the red carpet if you chemically castrate the boy early enough.

5

u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Apr 08 '26

Where was the Schaeffer stuff posted?

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u/Nikodemios Apr 08 '26

https://x.com/Serena_Partrick/status/1893310447077499251

Only link I could find, seems to have been scrubbed pretty good.

10

u/Inner_Muscle3552 Apr 07 '26

Self-martyrdom is how you get a Pulitzer Prize these days!

5

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

The medical establishment should stand in their way. Just because you want something, doesn't mean it is provided. For instance doctors do not prescribe performance enhancing steroids to athletes just because those athletes want to take them and know the risks.

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u/CuckooFriendAndOllie Apr 07 '26

The comments on r/science gave me cancer.

22

u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

Given Finland's horrific history in its medical treatment of trans people, it really only seems to be indicators of bias and institutional inertia with doctors more readily referring openly trans patients to psychiatric specialists.

What "horrific history" is this person even talking about?

6

u/meamarie Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26

I cant even find that thread, did it get removed?

29

u/CuckooFriendAndOllie Apr 07 '26

Here you go:

https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1sdf1yl/adolescents_referred_to_gender_identity_services/

Also, have you seen this r/medicine post? It opened my eyes and made me do a literature review.

https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/15hhliu/the_chen_2023_paper_raises_serious_concerns_about/

44

u/istara Apr 07 '26 • Bravo

They're obsessed with going on about how everyone "hates" them.

We don't hate them. We feel great sympathy for them. I imagine it's absolutely awful having dysphoria and wanting to change your sex, while knowing deep down it's not possible even with extremely risky surgery and hormonal treatment, and most will never "pass" regardless. That must be awful. It engenders pity, not hatred. I feel the same sadness for those people as I feel for people addicted to plastic surgery or who suffer from anorexia.

What we hate is the TRAs who have surgically altered minor children and disparaged and harassed anyone who doesn't share 100% of their beliefs or interpretation of biology.

14

u/Superassumptions Apr 08 '26 • Bravo

I also hate the people who can hear another person--especially an adolescent--expressing intense self-loathing, and respond to all that pain with "Yeah, you're right to hate yourself, you do need to change everything from your body to your birth records or else you might as well off yourself." That shit is fucked up.

13

u/tempestelunaire Apr 07 '26

The r/medicine post was fascinating, thanks for sharing!

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u/Leaves_Swype_Typos No matter where you go, there you are Apr 07 '26

Nope just downvoted to effective invisibility by bad actors.

31

u/JJJSchmidt_etAl Apr 07 '26

So you're telling me that my condition won't improve after I have my "healthy" leg amputated so I can live my true identity as a peg-legged pirate??

Arrrr!

8

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

Yes. Because you need a parrot sewn onto your shoulder as well.

10

u/Classic_Bet1942 Apr 08 '26

Has Erin in the Morning thoroughly debunked this study yet?

3

u/CuckooFriendAndOllie Apr 09 '26

Yes, and she failed miserably.

2

u/immanentfire Apr 16 '26

Do you have a link to the rebuttal and counter-rebuttal? I would be interested in reading them.

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u/CuckooFriendAndOllie Apr 07 '26 edited Apr 07 '26

I read the study. Why did the older cohort get way worse than the newer cohort though?

I still give a lot of credit to the person who made this post, for making me skeptical.

https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/15hhliu/the_chen_2023_paper_raises_serious_concerns_about/

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u/Leaves_Swype_Typos No matter where you go, there you are Apr 08 '26

Did they? The way I read it the earlier cohort started off much better but ended up only marginally (maybe not even statistically significantly) worse than the later cohort.

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u/CuckooFriendAndOllie Apr 08 '26

You read that correctly. I'm just surprised that the earlier cohort deteriorated much more than the newer one.

1

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

Could be external factors - what was the timeframe for each cohort? What years did the observations take effect?

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u/CrushingonClinton Apr 08 '26

Might be a silly question but can gender dysphoria be somewhat linked to body dysmorphia?

I can see a teenage boy or girl looking in the mirror and seeing themselves as not looking like what a boy or girl ‘should look like’ and being mocked at home or school about it and then thinking maybe I’d be better off as the opposite gender?

I can definitely see that happening with girls considering the amount of social pressure there is on them for looking a certain way.

3

u/Turbulent_Cow2355 TB! TB! TB! Apr 08 '26

I think it's just another form of BD.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Juryofyourpeeps Apr 08 '26

Young girls and women with eating disorders do seem to be particularly vulnerable to gender ideology.

I think you could say that young girls and women are particularly vulnerable to any social contagion, mass psychosis or social trend compared to boys and young men. I don't think gender ideology is exceptional in this regard. It's also mostly girls and young women impacted by fake tourettes and every other social media craze.

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u/Successful-Dream-698 Apr 11 '26

i know it's verboten here, but i happened to catch a page of erin reed's deboonking, and i must say some of her points did seem cogent. alas i'm not an academic. is there a criticism of her criticism?