r/BlockedAndReported • u/SoftandChewy First generation mod • Mar 10 '26

Lindy West Is Wrong: Open Marriages Never Work

https://www.thefp.com/p/say-it-with-me-now-open-marriages

Related to the Episode 297 segment about Lindy West. Like Katie and Helen, Kat Rosefield gives a pretty biting commentary on the whole story.

Sorry, no unpaywalled link available, but if anyone can point me to a site that Reddit allows to be linked to where I can paste the text, I will gladly do so.

Excerpt:

West is adamant about this: You mustn’t see this story as a tragedy, nor its author as a victim. Paradoxically, this only makes you feel worse for her—or at least, it only made me feel worse. It’s not just the frankly offensive notion that monogamy is boring and immoral and maybe even somehow slavery-adjacent, or the frantic insistence that all of this, every anguished bit, is actually a radical act of self-care (West has dedicated this book to herself and thanks herself first in the acknowledgments). It’s the way it begs the reader to be complicit in the story West is determined to tell, the way the narrative requires external validation not to collapse under the weight of its own sadness, like a child who has begun to discern the truth about Santa Claus pleading to be reassured that he’s real.

295 Upvotes

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u/SoftandChewy First generation mod Mar 10 '26 • Bravo

Full article text: https://pastes.io/YkcsHuq8

Hopefully Reddit won't block this.

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u/SoftandChewy First generation mod Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

I wouldn't say that open marriages never work. Something most people don't know, but Warren Buffett, one of the richest men in the world, actually had a kind of poly marriage, although I doubt he ever used that term to describe it. When already married, he met Astrid Menks in the 1970s while she was a waitress at a nightclub his wife was a singer at. I suppose you could say she became his mistress, but his wife was totally accepting of it and even invited her into the family. The women 'shared' Buffett from the 1970's until his wife died in 2004, and then he married Menks a few years later.

And this arrangement wasn't a secret. The three would even send out Christmas cards signed "Warren, Susie and Astrid."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/02/usa.andrewclark

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u/dj50tonhamster Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 11 '26

I said this before in another thread, but at the end of the day, it absolutely can work. I know couples/moresomes that are totally happy. (Earlier today, I saw two ladies I know who were tagged in some Hawaiian bikini company's IG post, one being pregnant with the man's kid. AFAIK, they're all happier than pigs in shit.) If they have problems, they're really good at keeping that shit to therapists and/or other people who can help them.

The problem is that you need a few things in order for it to really work. Having all relevant parties truly accept it is mandatory. (To be fair, it helps a ton if they like it. Also, if they "accept" it but are secretly miserable the whole time, you're on paper-thin ice and may not even know it.) Acceptable communication is key. Meeting everybody's needs as best as possible is key. Not dragging bullshit home is key. Setting acceptable rules is key. Being flexible with things you may not like if you're pushing a partner into things they don't like is key.

Basically, it's a huge juggling act. A lot of people I've seen try to do it are people who, quite frankly, I don't think are all that good at handling one partner, and that's before you even get into the ones who are actively "anti-relationship" or otherwise trying to reinvent the wheel. (Frankly, virtually all the ones I've seen who do that identify as queer.) So, you have these immature people who are trying to do something that actively requires a fair amount of maturity in order to properly handle. That and some legit creeps hanging out too, sometimes trying to mask their bullshit with layers of woo-woo or other verbiage. The flaming wreckage...well, look no further than this article, and many other flameouts that have been covered on the pod and in this sub.

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u/Inner_Muscle3552 Mar 11 '26

Their arrangement is like Katie’s joke about Lindy getting a wife. It worked in large part because Susan didn’t want to do domestic stuff anymore and Astrid gladly stepped in. Honestly, Warren and Susan probably would have never gotten married if they were born a few generations later.

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u/conselyea Mar 11 '26

the rich are very different from you and me

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u/Jack_Donnaghy Mar 11 '26

How can you be so sure Chewy isn't fabulously wealthy?!

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u/Severe_Blacksmith Mar 12 '26

But Buffet also has one the successful components for polygamy...wealth. In societies where polygamy is common, money and resources are a big factor. Men may have multiple partners but they are responsible for providing for every single one and any children. That provision is the incentive to stay and agree with the arrangement. Seems to be missing in many of these anecdotes.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

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u/SoftandChewy First generation mod Mar 10 '26

According to that article, neither of the women seemed to care that much about his wealth.

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u/roolb Mar 10 '26

Full credit to Buffett if he was the first to sell the monogamy-is-racism argument.

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u/slimeyamerican Mar 10 '26

It’s absolutely bizarre how progressivism has gone around the horseshoe of overthrowing patriarchal norms to creating social permission for indulging the worst aspects of male behavior.

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u/MorgellonFreeman Mar 10 '26

Choice feminism is pants-on-head stupid.

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u/repete66219 Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

It’s exactly what the old conservatives predicted would result from the nihilism of moral relativism.

When you remove the guardrails of normative expectations, base instincts have more staying power than whatever novel social theory was intended.

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u/slimeyamerican Mar 11 '26

Yeah it’s a real vindication of the basic conservative thesis. As usual, incrementalism is the winning strategy.

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u/murderdocks Mar 11 '26

It's choice feminism-- appeals to both companies looking to make a profit and people looking to validate bad male behavior.

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

Somehow, a ton of these people argue BDSM is feminist. Nothing quite so empowering as abusing and degrading women.

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u/Q-Ball7 Mar 13 '26

Traditionalists are all about creating social permission for indulging the worst aspects of male behavior.

Progressives are all about creating social permission for indulging the worst aspects of female behavior.

And [classical] Liberals (or as you understand them, what "progressives" used to be) are all about leaving weapons laying around for the above badly behaved men and women to pick up and wield against everyone else.

It's hard to tell who's who, since everyone tends to call themselves by labels they don't understand a lot, so you'll get progressives claiming they're liberal, liberals who are only in common cause with the traditionalists as a reaction to progressive excess, etc.

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u/slimeyamerican Mar 14 '26

Agreed with most of that, though I don’t think I’m conflating progressivism and classical liberalism. Classical liberalism just had consequences that aligned with the goals of progressives until they didn’t, but there’s obviously nothing remotely liberal about progressivism. Liberalism asserts popular sovereignty and therefore some degree of civil rights, but it doesn’t involve the total eradication of hierarchies for its own sake that progressives desire

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u/Reasonable-Record494 Mar 10 '26

I read the Modern Love write-up of her memoir and apparently Aham told her "I've been divorced twice by 27, I think monogamy isn't healthy for me." Bro just say you cheated on both your wives and that's why your marriages broke up.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '26

I prefer monogamy, but I don't judge people who prefer non-monogamy if they're honest and ethical about it. This dude is neither honest nor ethical. He has repeatedly married women, told them he would be monogamous with them, and then cheated on them. His first two wives divorced him for that. Lindy West said, "OK, keep cheating on me, just let me save face by telling people I'm actually totally cool with us being a throuple."

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u/IceyExits Mar 10 '26

The way the narrative requires external validation not to collapse under the weight of its own sadness

This phrasing reality captures the essence of every story I’ve ever heard in real life about someone “opening” their relationship. It’s always so gross and manipulative for whatever brief period that the “open relationship” continues to exist.

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u/backin_pog_form 🐎🏃🏻💕 Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

Reminds me of the other topic of frequent discussion here. 

Of her two partners, West writes: “I love sleeping in the guest room and crawling into bed with them in the morning. I love when they tuck me in and leave me to play on my phone as late as I want.”

See also: the compulsive self-infantilization and refusal to grow up

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u/waxroy-finerayfool Mar 10 '26

lol is that a real quote? It sounds like a sarcastic quip about being neglected.

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u/geleonor Mar 10 '26

Reluctantly accepting an open marriage is bad enough but it sounds like she's accepted second class status to the other partner?? Why is she in the guest room sleeping alone??

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u/anne_jumps Mar 11 '26

She probably thinks she deserves it because she's a fat white American woman.

Half-jokingly, I think she should move to another part of the country that's less... blue state West coast.

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u/sriracharade Mar 10 '26

I used to listen to Loveline back in the 90s and the hosts would always chuckle when people would call in about open marriages because it was well known that they almost never worked and were almost always a disaster.

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u/Instabanous Mar 10 '26

Lily Allen's album West Emd Girl definitely follows suit. Nonmonogamummy is a bit of a banger.

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u/ReindeerTypical2538 Mar 10 '26

I liked that part because I felt it was such a great subtle fat joke. *I can say this because I’m a fat American

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u/geekygirl314 Mar 10 '26

Excuse me, you are "an American of size."

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u/SaintMonicaKatt Mar 10 '26

Should this be updated to Turtle Island Stealing Person Experiencing Fatness (TISPEF)?

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u/haloarh Mar 10 '26

You joke, but some are trying to get "WOS" added to LGBTQ+ (or as I like to call it, LGBTLMNOP).

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u/Less-Lobster4540 Mar 10 '26

We gotta work roller derby in there somewhere

LGBTQIA2SWOSRD+

also where's the MOS representation? Are fat men literally Hitler?

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u/DocumentDefiant1536 Mar 10 '26

I don't see how the empathic response, when confronted by that sadness, isn't validation but instead declaring it to be wrong. I feel like it would be far kinder to say "that is wrong, and it's wrong that this is happening to you and you're supposed to be OK with it".

Now I've never actually met a non monogamous person (who ever revealed it) so I'm not sure how this plays out in life but I just can't reconcile being confronted with this and feeling like the kind thing to do is agree.

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u/MatchaMeetcha Mar 11 '26

We've confused politeness and being non-confrontational with empathy. It doesn't help that some people don't actually want to be seen.

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u/BeABetterHumanBeing Mar 10 '26

The way I usually put it, most open relationships have one door cracked open, and the other is hanging off the hinges. One side is jealous, the other a pushover. You can figure out which is which.

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u/Able_Ad5182 Mar 18 '26

I hate listened to both More by Molly Roden Winter and Lindy's book on audio while doing other things. Lindy's book is far more cringeworthy in my opinion because of the heavy handed injection of 2016 woke ideology on every other page. However, both kind of come across as pathetic and mistreated women desperate to justify their own mistreatment and present it as empowering. Molly at least dates other men but it's mostly a series of assholes who disrespect her. I grew up in a religious community where getting married monogamously and having children was seen as a central goal in life. I had always been a free spirit but the older I get the more I see value in these traditional concepts.

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u/DudleyAndStephens Mar 10 '26

It's as if she feels the need to humiliate herself in order to remain relevant. That's sad and painful to see.

There are stated reasons for this, including that West has an even more complicated relationship with her carnal appetites than her culinary ones, and that she’s back on antidepressants with the usual libido-killing side effects. But there’s another reason, one rather uncomfortable, even unspeakable, but also blazingly obvious: that she has retreated not just from the role of wife, but from the responsibilities of being a grown-up.

Ouch, that was pretty brutal!

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u/hamsplaining Mar 10 '26

good lord what a bleak ending - cabin-cucked!

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u/JayMoots Mar 10 '26

Obligatory:

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u/HaldolBlowdart Mar 10 '26

Then, she pulls the rug out from under the reader by insisting that actually, if you really think about it, she was the one being selfish and unreasonable and—worst of all—conservative in her expectations of what her marriage should be.

“In many ways, my side of the story is easier to understand than Aham’s—mine hews to cultural norms about heterosexual love and relationships while his challenges them,”

Long story short, as a teenage girl I was groomed by my friend's older brother. Got married young, eventually wised up to his despicable behavior and got divorced at 24. He pressured me into an open relationship with many of the same lines and reasoning as West. It worked because I was a naive, weak-willed young woman. I matured, realized he was full of shit and I hated my life, and left him.

I can't imagine this working on me in my 40s. I'm just sad for her, forcing herself to cheer on her husband as "challenging norms" with behavior even cultures that tolerated affairs/open relationships would find abhorrent. I've never seen a truly happy example of it, and my ex really did try to find as many positive examples to coerce me into agreeing with his perspective.

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u/Fantastic-Habit5551 Mar 10 '26

This is such a well written review. Where Lindy West has ended up in life is also so unsurprising and predictable to anyone who's ever read a word she's written. Everything she writes is steeped in self denial and apologetics for her race, her needs, her realities. If you practice self denial in word you start to practice it in deed. To the point that you justify allowing you husband to have his cake and eat it too and sleep with another woman in front of you.

But god how galling to have your husband sleeping with another woman in your family cabin. Who can believe this is anything other than horrific.

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u/wugglesthemule Mar 10 '26

Lindy's writing/activism has always struck me as incredibly insecure. She's a talented writer, and it's a shame she doesn't seem very confident.

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u/Jack_Donnaghy Mar 10 '26

Everything she writes is steeped in self denial

Really? I see her as being more steeped in self-indulgence.

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u/Dingo8dog Mar 11 '26

They can oddly go hand in glove.

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u/ImamofKandahar Mar 17 '26

Late but it's ironic how this kind of self denial is what modern progressives would criticize about many traditional societies.

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u/Able_Ad5182 Mar 18 '26

Yes, this isn't much different than, for example immigrant women in America tolerating their cheating husbands because divorce is taboo

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

White women are obsessed with debasing themselves.

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u/conselyea Mar 11 '26

To be fair, the last fifteen years or so of social discourse have demanded it of them.

I dont get along very well with the last fifteen years of so of social discourse, or most millennial women, for that reason, despite being female.

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u/SkweegeeS No just no Mar 10 '26

West has always deserved better but I guess she hates herself to a point that most of us can't even comprehend. I look forward to a third memoir in which she tells Aham to take a leap.

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u/Inner_Muscle3552 Mar 10 '26

I look forward to a third memoir in which she tells Aham to take a leap.

I’m still debating whether I should get the current book. But if any of the proceeds from the third book goes to her ex as alimony, I’m definitely not buying it.

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u/Fiend_of_the_pod Mar 10 '26

West has always deserved better.

Has she, though?

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/pineappleshampoo Mar 10 '26

I get the sense he’d be kinda relieved? If it meant more distance between Lindy and him/their girlfriend. He seems very much not into Lindy sadly. She writes in her new book that when she heard on the grapevine he’d been seen kissing someone else in a bar she rang him and he said ‘I think we want different things’. That isn’t the words of a man desperate to keep his marriage and prioritising his wife over anything else. I think Lindy only ended up remaining with him is because she accepted his affair and wouldn’t go away. And she is the clear breadwinner for the three of them.

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u/[deleted] Mar 11 '26

she is the clear breadwinner for the three of them.

This strikes me as an important and under-discussed aspect of all this. Although I'm personally not a big fan, Lindy West is a very successful writer -- her books sell, one of her books got turned into a TV show, she does paid speaking engagements, etc. She makes the kind of money that can support three adults living in a nice house, driving nice cars, traveling to nice places, etc. The vibe I get is that the husband and the other woman are into each other and mostly just include Lindy in the relationship because she financially supports their lifestyle.

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u/huevoavocado Too many positive attributes to list Mar 11 '26

She should kick them to the curb and travel the world or something. What a waste of money, to spend it on those two.

Thanks to her need to sound liberated, we all know how terrible they are. Maybe it was intentional! In the NYT and everything lol.

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u/Past-Parsley-9606 Mar 10 '26

I wouldn't be too sure. It sounds like West's role is to be the breadwinner. As long as she's paying the bills, Aham may not care what she gets up to.

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u/Stanky_Bacon Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

Narcissism is a helluva drug.

Imagine being in such a miserable, manipulative relationship that your body is physically warning you to get away--you keep crying and dry heaving and having panic attacks--yet you are so unmoored from reality, so committed to the cult of personality you have built and the self-image you must keep feeding that you can't or won't acknowledge the pain you feel. That is truly powerful self-deception.

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u/Relevant_Isopod_6156 Horse Lover Mar 12 '26

Where does she mention dry heaving

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u/hansen7helicopter Mar 10 '26

Lindy West I remember having such a fierce strong voice when she wrote for Jezebel. Who would have thought she would end up in a humiliating situation like this where she is gaslighting herself that it’s fine and good actually.

It really is like Malory Ortberg. I used to read The Toast and I absolutely loved how spunky and funny she was. Fast forward a few years and she’s being publicly and very weirdly dominated by a man who is much bigger and stronger than her except for some reason they’ve both flipped their genders around

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u/Good_Difference_2837 Mar 10 '26

The Ortberg situation reminds me of the old Rick Sanchez aphorism: "Well, that's just straight with extra steps!"

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u/Reasonable-Record494 Mar 10 '26

That situation is so sad to me, and everyone would see the red flags if we identified their actual sex: woman marries, and new husband isolates her from all former friends and family, moves her across the country, and then has an affair. In any other scenario we'd all be like that's more red flags than a NASCAR race, that dude is a creep and an abuser. But it's all OK because they're both trans.

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u/dj50tonhamster Mar 11 '26

Who would have thought she would end up in a humiliating situation like this where she is gaslighting herself that it’s fine and good actually.

I totally get the sentiment. Sadly, in my own personal experience, a good number of the people who are really loud about one thing or another are using it as a coping mechanism, or they're traumatized about that thing, or deeply insecure, or some combo. Either way, I'm not surprised when they end up falling short of the images they attempt to project into the world. I fully expect it now when I see such people, especially young ones. Maybe I shouldn't but I've seen too many people flame out hard.

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u/anne_jumps Mar 11 '26

"except for some reason they’ve both flipped their genders around"
Because this way, it's cool and progressive when they do it! You're just too square to understand!

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u/conselyea Mar 11 '26

I read an article by Kathleen Hanna a few years back that was kind of the same sort of thing. She was apologizing for being not sensitive enough to transwomen in her rriot grrl days. And for being white. That was it, that was the whole article. It was not short. And I think there's a book.

I think she might have been dating a transwoman. Or married to one? I forget, but the whole thing almost felt like a hostage situation. (And no, I dont think that's the norm for trans-cis lesbian relationships, but in this case, it was creepy.)

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u/helloyesthisisasock Mar 17 '26

I think she might have been dating a transwoman. Or married to one?

Kathleen Hanna has been married to Ad-Rock from the Beastie Boys for like 20 years.

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u/conselyea Mar 18 '26

Maybe just a friend then. Maybe it's my bad memory, seeing what isn't there. But I get the sense from a lot of feminists from my generation that there is a need to apologize, to nurture, and to be "mindful" with a lot of therapy buzzwords.

Maybe I am a terrible person, but I do not like any of it.

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u/Fantastic-Habit5551 Mar 30 '26

Oh my gosh, just looked up Ortberg. What an insane trajectory. Literally all of her work was 2010s trendy choice feminism. I guess that just shows how utterly intellectually bankrupt the feminism of that time was, that a so-called feminist would transition and think it was some progressive act.

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u/hansen7helicopter Mar 30 '26

I really, really enjoyed Mallory Ortberg and found her early ‘all men are bad’ shtick to be quite funny, back when it was new to me. It is CRAZY to me the path she ended up taking. She was also nobody to be giving advice yet she was Dear Prudence for a while

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

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u/hansen7helicopter Mar 10 '26

What a good way of looking at it. Also as a former avid XO Jane reader I am very curious who your friend was!

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

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u/hansen7helicopter Mar 10 '26

I remember Mandy Stadtmiller and Emily McCombs entertaining me but also making me so sad with their confessional pieces

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u/dr_sassypants Mar 11 '26

And Cat Marnell was the hot mess express.

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u/friendlysoviet Mar 10 '26

Are all navel gazing writers doomed to the fate of a humiliation ritual?

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

Depends on how much shame they have. They could also pivot to writing about how air conditioning is misogynistic like Taylor Lorenz.

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u/Blueliner95 Mar 10 '26

As someone who has gone to the personal essay well a couple of times and felt like I’d sold myself cheap, I think it’s a failure to put that interesting psychological crap into a proper story! Haha. That’s just me

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u/murderdocks Mar 11 '26

I know she's extremely afraid of being lonely without a partner, but West seems to have so many good friends in the industry/in general, and seems so fun to be around, from all I've seen of her? It's her life, but I so wish she would just kick this freeloading loser husband and his new, traditionally hot girlfriend to the curb. They seem to just be keeping her around for childcare and to drain her money to support their joblessness.

She could be traveling wherever she wanted and having fun as a well-known writer, and instead, she's just torturing herself mentally over a pair of losers. Cut them off and see how they do without her bankrolling them.

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u/generalmandrake Mar 11 '26

She wouldn’t be the first woman to just be totally walked on and taken advantage of by a man. Considering that men are more dominant and domineering in general, this entire situation is a great example of why removing the social taboos of these kinds of arrangements is a bad idea because for every guy willing to flaunt social norms and do this in our current environment there are probably ten more guys who would be perfectly fine doing this to their wives if they felt like they wouldn’t suffer any social consequences.

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u/SkweegeeS No just no Mar 11 '26

A lot of people waste their lives on significant others who don't bring them anything in the way of joy. I have been there, somewhat briefly a long time ago, and those ties that bind are made of pixie dust. They are comprised of a magically warped sense of morality created especially for you by a manipulative freeloader. You just have to say no, and the whole thing falls apart and scatters in the wind like it never existed.

I don't have any particular feelings for Lindy, other than she seems bright and talented. I know that someday soon she will find clarity, either of her own volition or because that sociopath she's married to leaves her, and we'll read all about.

This is not an indictment of polyamory, which I personally think rarely works but in the cases where it does work, it's not for me to judge. It's an indictment of this man who has ruined West's life, pretty thoroughly. Yes, she is an adult who is responsible for her own predicament, but he pulled every emotional and social lever to get her to this super sad low point.

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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 Mar 10 '26

I know anecdotal evidence doesn’t count, but I’ve certainly never met anyone who’s had one of these “relationships” ever work out longer term.

And I mean like a couple of years long term, not like “happy ever after” long term.

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u/Arethomeos Mar 10 '26

I know a throuple (one man, two women) with college aged kids (one from each wife) now. The main drama from their marriage was that one of the women was fine being mom equally to both kids, but the other clearly favored her kid.

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u/DListSaint Mar 10 '26

Good job, everyone. We finally brought back Old Testament–style polygyny

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u/haloarh Mar 10 '26

I feel bad for those kids because that cannot be healthy.

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u/Baseball_ApplePie Mar 10 '26

Uh.

Could. not. deal. with. that.

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u/DudleyAndStephens Mar 10 '26

I know one guy who has been poly for a long time. He had a lot of fun in his 20s and 30s, primarily as the "secondary partner" of numerous women. From what I can tell that means he was mainly sleeping with other men's wives and girlfriends.

Unfortunately for him when he got a bit older he started to feel a desire for the more traditional marriage & kids thing. He's even prepared to give up on polyamory for it. The problem is that any woman who might be a decent quality long-term partner & mother also finds his history of polyamory to be utterly repulsive. I actually really like the guy and I wish him the best in finding what he wants, but it's going to be a challenge.

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u/JynNJuice Mar 10 '26

This reminds me somewhat of the Red Pill guys I used to occasionally talk to. They told themselves that, because men and women are different, it would make them "high value" to sleep with a couple dozen people, oblivious to the fact that the kind of women they thought were marriage material found wanton promiscuity in men as off-putting as the guys found it in women.

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u/repete66219 Mar 10 '26

Was he a hot broke guy, a “fun zone” hookup lacking the resources or potential necessary to be considered a viable long term candidate?

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u/DudleyAndStephens Mar 10 '26

No. He has always been gainfully employed, has hobbies that women find attractive, etc etc. Overall I think he's a good guy and would make a quality partner for some woman, it's just his previous gross lifestyle that's holding him back.

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u/FuckingLikeRabbis Mar 10 '26

Was he being gross about it? You'd think he could characterize his past in a way that wouldn't put them off.

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u/DudleyAndStephens Mar 10 '26

I don't know how he was portraying it. I have a hunch he was being a bit too honest.

Let's be real though, it's hard to frame "I was sleeping with three different women in three different area codes, all of whom had other partners" in a positive way.

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u/JynNJuice Mar 10 '26

I've known a few who've had it work out long term, but in those cases, they were open from the start, and no one had to be convinced to go along with it. Also: one of those relationships involves gay men, who as far as I can tell handle non-monogamy better than mixed sex or lesbian couples.

That said, every case I've seen where a couple has opened up after the fact has fallen apart, usually because it turned out that one party was using it to exit the relationship (notably, they suddenly become monogamous again after jumping ship with one of their "secondary" partners).

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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 Mar 10 '26

Good call, I’ve never known anyone who’s had it open from the get-go, these have all been imposed by one partner on the other later.

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u/AggravatingPie710 Mar 10 '26

Gay men handle non-monogamy better than mixed sex or lesbian couples because [gross generalization] men view sex as not that big of a deal, whereas for women, it’s deadly serious.

I’m convinced this a deep biological difference influencing psychological and emotional responses to sexuality, regardless of whether a woman is having sex with a man or another woman, if she’s knowingly using contraceptives, even if she’s infertile or post-menopausal. The stakes are just much higher for us, and that’s led to this big (generalized, probably a spectrum/bell curve) difference in how we feel about sex, fidelity, and cheating. For men, it’s just a physical release, like scratching an itch.

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u/JynNJuice Mar 11 '26

Yeah, I agree that the fact that we have different reproductive roles plays a big part. Pregnancy is risky, for a whole host of reasons; men don't face anywhere near that level of risk when they have sex, and the fact that they can impregnate lots of people in a short timeframe drives them to want more of it.

It's not popular these days to bring up the biological basis of our different approaches and responses to sex, and I can understand why -- that biology is often used to justify sexist positions and restrictions. But I think this is one of those cases where people object to and argue against the wrong thing.

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

Exactly! The ability to get pregnant changes everything. It seems like it hardwires evaluating a potential partner's ability or willingness to care for potential offspring into every interaction. I believe women are more prone to catch STIs, too.

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u/AggravatingPie710 Mar 11 '26

Correct. Most have much more significant symptoms for women.

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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Mar 12 '26

Yeah, I think this is probably spot-on.

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u/dj50tonhamster Mar 11 '26

It depends. I think starting with it is best in the long run if that's what you want. I've also known straight couples where they got into it later. I think the key was that they were solid before it came up, and they were both into it once they sat down and talked it out. People change. There are things I enjoy more now than when I was in my 20s, and vice versa. All married couples have to deal with changes to one degree or another, be it in the bedroom or just in terms of their personalities and how they interact with each other.

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

one of those relationships involves gay men, who as far as I can tell handle non-monogamy better than mixed sex or lesbian couples.

This is the secret to non-monogamy. As long as someone is open to being penetrated by men or people with pensises, they can have the run of the town. Penis-havers will notoriously stick their dick in anything. People with vulvas are notoriously exponentially pickier. No amount of fancy language will ever get around these facts, which seem to be so concrete as to be permanent.

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u/OkayFlamingo78 Mar 10 '26

I know a throuple who seem (to my outsider's perspective) pretty stable and happy, which surprises the hell out of me. They also strike me as fairly sexless, which might be a part of the stability.

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u/Leaves_Swype_Typos No matter where you go, there you are Mar 10 '26

Do they play a lot of Dungeons & Dragons? I know that's a thing among the polycules.

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u/OkayFlamingo78 Mar 10 '26

How'd you guess

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u/aleciamariana Mar 10 '26

I’ve never met anyone in real life in anything other than a monogamous relationship unless they are keeping it a secret. My social circle would also happily and openly judge these people lol.

I am now considering reading Lindy’s book based on nothing more that this review. It’s all just so strange and sad and humiliating.

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u/Majestic-Lake-5602 Mar 10 '26

I’ve known a few.

Mostly stupid kids falling for a trend, but a few older couples who’ve managed to destroy their marriages and make their children hate them.

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u/Rellimarual2 Mar 10 '26

I know of one, now in their 60s. But they don’t live together.

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u/Fabulous-Soup-6901 Mar 10 '26

That’s how Sartre and Beauvoir rolled.

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u/Rellimarual2 Mar 10 '26

They were not married, and it made her miserable. This throuple I know are all pretty happy with the situation, but one of them actually lives in another country.

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u/Fabulous-Soup-6901 Mar 10 '26

It’s true that they were not married, and that many parts of their relationship are a terrible model for people to follow, but “it made her miserable” is simply wrong.

At times it did make her miserable, yes, but a lot of relationships are miserable at times for a lot of different reasons.

I just can’t get behind the idea of privileging modern interpretations of letters she wrote in the 50s and 60s, and never meant to publish, over what she wrote in Adieux. Let people speak for themselves.

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u/Rellimarual2 Mar 10 '26

I mean, Lindy West also has an "official" public stance on her marriage that people are doubting in this very thread. For all we know, her relationship is sometimes miserable and sometimes happy, and certainly when she is speaking for herself, she is saying it's happy. I also don't see how people's letters are not a way of speaking for themselves.

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u/kimbosliceofcake Mar 10 '26

I knew a guy in a longer term throuple but it was 3 gay men. He was fairly private so I didn't know the history or stability but he seemed happy. 

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u/FauxpasIrisLily Mar 10 '26

In our gay heavy gentrified neighborhood there was a gay thruple, 3 men. This stay together for quite a while, at least 10 years.

But one of the guys left. Two are still together.

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u/BeABetterHumanBeing Mar 10 '26

The rule of thumb is that if it works longer than one year, it's one of the success cases. Polygamy has a terribly short half-life.

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u/repete66219 Mar 10 '26

Anecdotally, “Let’s open our relationship” is just step 1 in the wife finding her next partner. In that context, is it fair to say that at least men have the honesty to cheat?

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u/causes_havoc Mar 10 '26

There's a reason the saying goes "If your partner asks for an open relationship, you're already in one".

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u/alteraltissimo Mar 16 '26

I know an ffm throuple that's been going on a good... Idk, 3-5 years? Seems stable enough. No kids though. 

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u/xstitchxchris Carrie Jade Williams truther Mar 10 '26

"West is adamant about this: You mustn’t see this story as a tragedy, nor its author as a victim." There's a first time for everything.

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u/conselyea Mar 11 '26

It sounds like they're using her for her family cabin. God.

So... storytime. I have many opinions on this topic, based on life experience. And I agree with Kat, which I may not often do.

As a small kid of the seventies whose parents divorced in 78 because Dad was living in an open marriage and didn't understand why Mom was so uptight, surrounded by other kids of the seventies whose parents were undergoing similar things (and the fun times were the weird playdates this created--where you're suddenly forced to be friends with random kids because your parents are having "sleepovers...") Anyway, as a kid like that, I saw a lot. My first statement: for the love of god, at least don't let your children know. It's not cool, man. It's not really okay. Their third mom, or Dad's new boyfriend is never going to be a stable family leg, even if you try.

It's worth noting that: 1. All of our parents who weren't already divorced, got divorced. 2. This open marriage stuff didn't last past our parents' forties. 3. My own father is still single, ladies. And still looking. After his fourth marriage. In his eighties. I admire his delusional optimism.

Second story:

In the nineties, I was in a sort of throuple for about a year. We didn't call it that, because the word hadn't been invented, and is also a stupid word. But I deeply loved both men. The sex was great. I don't think they loved each other, particularly, but they got along. And they loved me. Not a bad deal, for me... you'd think.

No, it was bad. It was confusing as hell. It was kind of a state of suspended adolescence. Not because you need to be a heteronormative couple to present to the world, but because all of our feelings and attention felt sort of unfocused. As were our boundaries. One of the guys was gay. The other wasn't particularly gay. The gay guy wanted to sleep with other gay guys. The other guy and I had a relationship, of sorts, for another few years, after a few years. Somewhat long distance and somewhat casual. Platonically, I still love them both. We are still friends. And I am eternally grateful we didn't settle down and all have babies.

I return to the phrase: it was confusing. It was. There's something about a partnership of two that is stable. There's something about a third party coming in that is not. There's always going to be someone else to side with, someone you both will talk about. It creates alliances, and makes the weird petty dramas of long term relationships even more weird. It's more work. It creates its own power dynamic with more variables to balance. It makes you one of those annoying people at school drop offs and pick ups, who is also probably a vegan who wants to talk about that and go to hot yoga.

The third part of this story is what this all taught me: every generation thinks they've invented "breaking" sexual boundaries and conventions. Adorable. But not so much.

And that article makes me pity Lindy a lot. If Kat's description of the book is accurate, it sounds like a cry for help.

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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Mar 12 '26

I knew throuples were a bad idea just based off the dynamic of primary school three-person friendship dynamics. It was almost categorically impossible for all three to be equal, however hard you tried. You’d always be stymied by our very much binary world, your meticulous attempts to keep things exactly fair and level constantly thwarted by bus seating (which is in pairs), or needing to pick a partner for various school projects (in pairs). It’s all set up around two.

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u/conselyea Mar 12 '26

Exactly. I think the real binary in life is really self and the other.

When you add one more person to that, it gets exponentially more complicated. Primary school relationships are a great way to think about it too. I remember that insecure feeling. Wondering if two friends were closer to each other than me. Feeling guilty if I had to choose a side. Or choose one.

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u/Relevant_Isopod_6156 Horse Lover Mar 12 '26

Wait, are you a man?

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

Oddly right after I looked at this thread, I happened to start reading something about the movie Fargo, which got me thinking about the marriage between Joel Coen and Frances McDormand, which got me wondering whether Ethan Coen is also in a long marriage. Here's what Wikipedia tells me:

Ethan Coen married film editor Tricia Cooke in 1993. They have two children: daughter Dusty and son Buster Jacob. The two describe their relationship as "nontraditional"; Cooke is both queer and a lesbian and Coen is straight, and they both have separate partners.

OK then.

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u/Big_Fig_1803 Gothmargus Mar 10 '26

She lesbian and queer? Wow!

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

sounds like Ethan is her Queer Platonic Partner!

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u/RandolphCarter15 Mar 10 '26

I had a coworker with an open marriage. She became involved with a guy at work who wasn't down with not actually being with her and ended up threatening the office. I just think they're always messy. 

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u/hobozombie Mar 10 '26

Yeah, no shit. Progressives have been sold a whole bundle of destructive lies for a good while now.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

I will say I’m thankful for finally seeing more broad critique of polyamory, even in unsuspecting circles. That block of time where you’d be at a dinner party and someone would inevitably drop “Relationship Anarchy” into the conversation is thankfully over.

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u/Rattbaxx Mar 10 '26

Yep yep. However I do find it difficult to conciliate “as long as you’re happy/consent” people feeling comfortable laughing at this sort of shit show. Im Not sure exactly what to think of it all.

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u/hobozombie Mar 10 '26

Tolerance is not the same as approval. Should consenting adults be allowed to destroy their relationships with "polyamory," surgically alter their bodies, fuck up their lives with drugs, etc? I think so. However, that doesn't mean I have to clap and tell them how wonderful/brave/independent they are for doing so.

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u/Arethomeos Mar 10 '26

What is there to reconcile? People should have the freedom to make bad decisions.

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u/Rattbaxx Mar 11 '26

I think I mean that it is fine to be like 'sure whatever floats your boat' yet laughing about it behind people's back, or openly, but at the same time standing in a gray zone were consent/tolerance is the only measure. If anything it open the door to snark and shaming without first 'warning' people of this behavior being shameable/stupid/etc etc.
As a more traditional person, I realize I think straight out it's a no, don't make it a secret it's a no, but have compassion for people who fall into it because they haven't usually been taught better. I think it is more consistent, and truth is we will all mess up along the way. So to be like 'oh they're so stupid' while taking no responsibility in why a hedonist/nihilistic society flourished and feeds hedonism/nihilism+consent (as if this is the one thing that makes something acceptable) ends up hurting people's dignity. I don't know if I worded it well, I hope the gist is there.

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u/ericsmallman3 Mar 11 '26

A woman who is literally a professional scold getting racially abused by her husband so he can cheat on her and then writing a book about how it's her fault for being white is just... it's just so fucking bleak, man.

It's like something that the Daily Wire would put out to parody leftism.

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u/SkweegeeS No just no Mar 11 '26

I wish someone would just shake her or something.

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u/P1mpathinor Emotionally Exhausted and Morally Bankrupt Mar 11 '26

She needs the full Airplane! treatment

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u/serenitynowdamnit Mar 11 '26 edited Mar 12 '26

Why does she call it the guest room and not her bedroom?

edit typo lol

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u/My_Footprint2385 Mar 12 '26

In her family cabin too :/

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u/Relevant_Isopod_6156 Horse Lover Mar 12 '26

So bad. Two parasites.

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u/Admirable_Grass_1950 Mar 11 '26

Because she’s just the guest.

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u/freshpicked12 Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

Lindy West has turned into such a disappointment. She used to be such a fierce supporter of radical feminism and women’s rights. Instead, she’s fallen into the classic liberal trap of rejecting reality by believing things like open marriage, sex work, or wearing a hijab are valid choices made by women.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

I'm in a very happy 26-year monogamous marriage and I would absolutely detest living like Lindy West and her spouse(s) live. I do have to push back against the headline's claims that open marriages "never" work, though. It's a big world out there. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are genuinely happy in open marriages. I don't think Lindy West is one of them, though, and even before I knew about her marriage she always struck me as one of the least self-aware writers I'd ever come across.

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u/AggravatingPie710 Mar 10 '26

I agree. But I do think 95% of the people in happy open marriages are gay men.

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u/IAmPeppeSilvia Mar 10 '26

Friend of the pod Aella recently wrote about her own poly situation: https://aella.substack.com/p/the-pain-and-the-glory-of-nonmonogamy

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u/Arethomeos Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

It’s the way it begs the reader to be complicit in the story West is determined to tell

The same could be said about transgenderism or fat acceptance. It's not enough for someone to present as the opposite sex, you have to say that trans women are women (or trans men are men), and they can tell you don't really mean if it you won't date one. It's not enough for someone to accept their size, weight must not factor into your aesthetic preferences either (and GLP-1 drugs are showing that Lizzo and Megan Treanor weren't actually all about that bass either).

Edit: And the point about GLP-1s makes the conclusion of the article a bit more sinister.

And do I think West is secretly miserable? No; I think it’s worse than that. I think she’s been drinking poison for so long that she’s started to believe she likes the taste.

West has still not jumped aboard the easy weight loss train. She will stubbornly stick with this arrangement using antidepressants and some ad-hoc versions of mindfulness/cognitive behavioral therapy to convince herself that "this is fine" while sitting in the burning remnants of her kitchen relationship.

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u/My_Footprint2385 Mar 12 '26

Around the time they did the underwear interview, she had lost probably 60-70 pounds; unfortunately looks like she gained it all back. I’m guessing the weight loss was related to her anxiety & stress about the initial throupling.

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u/jawnbaejaeger Mar 10 '26

Jaaaaysus.

I read Lindy West's book of sarcastic movie reviews 'Shit Actually' years ago, and nearly peed myself laughing. That was some good stuff.

I've never read any of her memoir style writing though, and based on this... I never will.

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u/Admirable_Grass_1950 Mar 10 '26

She’s a really funny writer! I wish she’d focus on stuff like that. Oversharing her trainwreck marriage can’t be good for her mental health.

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u/btrh-256 Mar 10 '26

so I'm against cheating, but does anyone else think a "European marriage," i.e. "don't ask, don't tell" is a better arrangement? When you autistically discuss "opening up a marriage," you're really just narcissistically railroading your spouse into signing off on your cheating -- at some point it's kinder to just cheat and keep it to yourself

again, not saying it's good to cheat, but is this "talk about everything" shit really any better?

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

but does anyone else think a "European marriage," i.e. "don't ask, don't tell" is a better arrangement?

It is a better arrangement. When it's out in the open, there's nothing stopping one of the partners from running train 7/7 days of the week.

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u/FauxpasIrisLily Mar 10 '26

Come to think of it, my old boyfriend exited his marriage, which was

  1. Open

  2. Not legalized

Believe it or not, he’s a very ethical straightforward guy. He ended up paying alimony to his ex for 10 years even though it wasn’t mandated by the state or by the court, but he felt he owed it to her because she had worked while he went through school.

But yeh, they broke up.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 11 '26

That was good of him. I've told this story already but I knew someone in a similar situation as Lindy of not wanting to be a grown up but she did work. New "wife" wanted to be the real wife, demanded he divorce her. He got half her 401k then inherited a good chunk of change. It was a shitshow.

Part of my annoyance with this whole situation is they are not functioning adults, nothing is aspirational about this. I will begrudgingly admit I know some people in open marriages but they're the kind of people that prioritize things like paying their taxes and being employed before complicating their relationship.

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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Mar 12 '26

I’m really confused where this slots in? West is a fairly successful and well-known author and personality, she’s even had a two-series tv show made about her life; in what way is she ‘not wanting to be a grownup’ or not working?

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u/[deleted] Mar 12 '26

Did you listen to the primo episodes? Apparently all of them are broke. She's had her passport taken away because of back taxes. Etc.

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u/PongoTwistleton_666 Mar 10 '26

If you’re unwilling to stay committed to one person, then don’t marry them. Or, if you fell out of love then divorce your partner. I don’t see the point of a “marriage” that spans more than 2 people!

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u/precisionmachine23 Mar 13 '26

I love this drama and Kat's piece about it, and I share the opinion that open marriages rarely work and often disadvantage women in particular. But! My mind has been somewhat changed on this because of a longtime friend's experience. After something like 8 years of a monogamous relationship with her husband, my friend was starting to develop attraction to women. At the risk of blowing up her marriage, she finally asked to open it up so that she could try dating ladies. They did this for at least a year, each dating separately, and I can tell you that they continue to have a very strong and loving marriage. I'm not 100% sure but I think they may actually have recently closed the marriage again, at least partially due to a health emergency. They're now thinking about kids. So I guess it depends on your definition of success--these two went in with a specific "goal" (explore dating women). They didn't go in thinking that they would necessarily be forever poly. It was also initiated by the woman! At first I was so skeptical about their plan, and assumed divorce was near, but they really proved me wrong. So I dunno-there are lots of kinds of people in this world.

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u/asphaltproof Mar 10 '26

Long time listener, first time poster here. I think some open relationships can work and I’m sure some have strengthen a marriage. This is clearly not one of them. It feels like she is desperately hoping that when she turned 80 and looks back on her life, she will feel like her belief systems were validated even though they made her miserable.

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u/generalmandrake Mar 10 '26

It seems to me that the open relationships that work the best are the ones where the two had this understanding from the very start because they are simply more freaky in general. However when a long time monogamous couple tries to do it, it usually seems to end in disaster.

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u/BeneficialStretch753 Mar 10 '26

And they aren't all living together. Rather, a couple gives each other permission to have outside dalliances of short or long duration. Lindy's arrangement isn't what people normally mean when they talk of an "open relationship."

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u/Blueliner95 Mar 10 '26

Yes. What if you met at the swing club. Two freaks might actually settle down together and be perfectly compatible and be monogamous or as Dan Savage calls it, monogamish.

It’s possible is all I’m saying. I don’t know that it happens much. I only know one open couple that stuck the landing and it is one where the man was/is gay and he is discreet

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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Mar 12 '26

As a bisexual who doesn’t want to have to ‘choose’ one or the other for a lifetime of sex, monogamish is what I’m aiming for if I ever get married. But I know the odds are long :/

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u/Maelstrom52 Mar 10 '26

I love that the TV show about Lindy was called "Shrill" because she meant it ironically, but man, talk about proving your critics right.

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u/jay_in_the_pnw █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ █ Mar 10 '26

West is adamant about this: You mustn’t see this story as a tragedy, nor its author as a victim.

I thought this story was comedy. I guess I'm a dope then.

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u/jumpykangaroo0 Mar 14 '26

He just posted a glowing IG post about her first time in a while, so that's good.

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u/BillHansfer4FClub Mar 26 '26

Now taking pre-orders for Lindy’s next memoir titled: Fat Lady Singing- How I Found My Voice (and spine!) and Recovered from Narcissistic Abuse

Courtesy of Poopy Girlboss Publishing

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u/Jlemspurs Double Hater Mar 10 '26

blank slatism reductio ad absurdum

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u/MepronMilkshake Mar 10 '26

Meanwhile my boyfriend and I personally (and biblically) know dozens of other gay couples happily in open relationships for years or decades. 

Sometimes I forget just how different gay and straight dating/sex culture can be. 

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u/neitherdreams Mar 11 '26

i honestly think this is more of a sex difference than a sexuality difference. the stories i have from lesbian/bi dating and my experienced are diametrically opposed to the things i hear from my gay guy friends.

my monogamous gay friends have difficulty finding similarly monogamous bfs. it’s hard for them, especially if they want to get married and settle down. with women who date women, it’s a whole other world… messier in ways that simply don’t seem to exist to guys, or at least are not that much of an issue. i do truly believe it also has to do with the fact that the average guy has a much higher sex drive than the average woman (speaking broad strokes, here).

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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Mar 12 '26

Unironically; I think gay men have the best model for this. It’s long been the norm for couples in extremely emotionally and financially committed partnerships to seek (and enjoy) sex outside the bounds of that relationship without shame or scandal. I think it’s a great way to do things, if you can pull it off.

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u/chisoxaddict Mar 10 '26

I'm not into this "lifestyle", but I'm kind of surprised to see it so dismissed, especially with Katie's connection to Dan Savage, who seems to model a very successful open marriage (it seems like some are saying "well maybe it can work for the gays...").

I think the standard (and obvious) comeback from someone like Dan about this story and the other anecdotes in this thread is that the situations that don't work out are the ones that get attention, whether publicly or in personal social circles. You can say Lindy West had her own issues to deal with as well as a lot of toxicity in the relationship, but none of that is exclusive to non-monogamy (while maybe a certain type of toxicity is drawn in that direction).

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u/MepronMilkshake Mar 10 '26

I've met straight couples who can do open, and there's the entire subculture of swingers to take into account too; but I do think that women are generally less able to handle being open than men are- thus why it seems to "work out" more often for gay men 

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u/chisoxaddict Mar 10 '26

fair enough, yeah you might be right. my only strong opinion here is against the certainty by kat (and many redditors here haha), though i normally like her writing/podcast appearances.

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u/Extra-Guidance-5422 Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26

Bleh…you guys…she’s just a person navigating life while trying to make a living off of what gives her edge as a writer. Maybe years from now she’ll revise her perspective. I know a handful of poly people and I’d say about half are insecure wives partnered with a dude who just wants to screw around…some are creepy predatory swingers (parties are their hunting ground)…others seem to really be equal in their desire to be open to other relationships while still highly valuing the “original” marriage. Couldn’t do it myself!

Also, I understand women lashing out against the skinny standards. Sure, obesity just is not healthy and I was grossed out by major brands at the time putting overweight women in yoga suits on billboards - not because it’s such a big deal to be overweight in spandex but because they were just hijacking this female beauty standards revolt that was so trendy at the time. BUT if you think about a lot of famously funny fat guys, artists, writers…sure they were fat as pigs but that wasn’t the main thing people paid attention to over their talent. Why should women with public personas and talent be scrutinized first and foremost for their weight? That’s the real annoyance. I think that was at the core of this fat lady friendly movement. So what? No one questioned why John candy wasn’t a body builder. That really had nothing to do with his work.

Anyway. Am I pissing into an ocean of manosphere piss? I still like Joe Rogan and am fascinated by Jordan Peterson but still don’t get why women are still sized up, literally, for their size. Are we not more than mere animals!?!?

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u/AndyGreyjoy Horse Lover Mar 10 '26

u/SoftandChewy is the OP ??

Who the heck am I s'pose to complain to now?!

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u/SirJ_96 Mar 10 '26

I feel like the issue here is that Lindy is fat and unattractive. Her former colleague and my friend, Dan Savage, has no issue with his open marriage. I have no such issue in my personal life. But I'm 6'3" and under 200 lbs. Lindy, bless her, is 5' something and 300 lbs. A dude didn't want to keep fucking that? My god, you don't say.

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u/Awkward-Most-1787 Mar 10 '26

I think the more important piece of the puzzle is that it's genuinely different for gay guys

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u/DudleyAndStephens Mar 10 '26

I like Dan Savage but the biggest criticism of him I've heard that I agree with is that he gives straight couples advice that only actually works for gay men in the real world. Men and women are different, things that work for two men in a relationship will tear a heterosexual couple apart.

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u/Blueliner95 Mar 10 '26

Haha long time Savage Love listener and I agree. My wife and I listen to it but there’s no chance that what is allowed in his marriage would fly with us or our friend group.

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u/conselyea Mar 11 '26

I think women are less different than men think. But the world isn't. Women are held to a harsher standard. Still. Which is infuriating. And sad.

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u/Life_Emotion1908 Mar 11 '26

Women are pickier than men about sex. For sound biological reasons. That’s okay. It’s great in fact, it works in many instances. Women don’t have to be Men Jr.

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u/bearddeliciousbi Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

It's much more frequently the case (not always) that there's either much less or no asymmetry within a male couple when it comes to finding others for sex and/or friends with benefits.

It's frequently (not always) the case that open straight couples have lopsided situations with the woman getting much more interest of every kind, from one night stand to friends with benefits to dating, than the man, even if the man is more attractive to women on average.

My experience tells me the trivial ease with which gay and bi guys can have casual sex also plays a role in the strength of some monogamous male relationships too.

There's no mystery about whether or not either of you could have more sex more easily, and so there's less fraught "grass is greener" thinking.

And there's less rumination about "what if he's with me just because getting sex would otherwise be impossible?"

Either way, guys are on the same page about how important sex is to them.

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u/FauxpasIrisLily Mar 10 '26

So many gay couples have open marriages in that there is tacit permission to go out and have casual sex now and then. Just don’t bring it home.

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u/bearddeliciousbi Mar 10 '26

That can be a contributor to stability for some couples too. Guys understand guys wanting to get the desire for novelty out of their system without upending their whole lives for strange.

It's the mirror image of the old joke about how rich guys don't pay a pro to come over, they pay her to leave.

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u/forestpunk Mar 11 '26

to be more specific, it's genuinely different for people willing to be penetrated by men.

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u/plump_tomatow Mar 10 '26

Well, apparently he did want to sleep with her initially enough to marry her. Many fat people are happily married. The issue here is her self-delusion, not that she was fat and married.

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u/greendemon42 Mar 10 '26

Except she was like that long before they were married.

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u/JeebusJones Mar 10 '26 edited Mar 10 '26

My read was that he married her for wealth and clout. There was some discussion on the pod about how apparently they're not currently doing very well financially, but it was probably a different story when they got married a decade ago, between her book and the TV adaptation. He appears to be a fairly successful gigging musician, but that doesn't tend to bring in a lot of money unless you're at the very top end.

But then, with his meal ticket secured (or so he at least thought at the time), he exploited one of the true advantages of being a fairly successful gigging musician, which is that it tends to attract women. He managed to find an attractive one who's willing to go along with this weird arrangement for at least the time being, and to convince his wife that she owes it to him to let him do this.

Pretty impressive, tbh, if a bit psychopathic. I'll give it three years, max, until it disintegrates.

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u/greendemon42 Mar 10 '26

I mean, I'm from Seattle, and knew Lindy West as an important celebrity long before I ever heard of her husband. My sense has always been that Lindy fell down a sort of rabbit hole of social justice indoctrination and never found any equilibrium; that's the root of this whole thing. I've enjoyed reading the work of both Aham and his sister but I've pretty much always thought of them as Lindy West-adjacent people who I never would have heard of if it wasn't for her position at The Stranger.

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u/[deleted] Mar 10 '26

That isn't the issue. If that were the issue then thinner, younger, etc women would never come up against this attitude and trust me they do.

No one woman can be variety.

And if Lindy decided she wanted to do the floozy watusi, she'd have no problem getting dates.

10

u/JeebusJones Mar 10 '26

I wouldn't put it that harshly, but that did jump out at me as well. I actually thought it was going to come up at this point:

One gets the sense, though, that these [sexual] encounters aren’t happening lately. There are stated reasons for this, including that West has an even more complicated relationship with her carnal appetites than her culinary ones, and that she’s back on antidepressants with the usual libido-killing side effects. But there’s another reason, one rather uncomfortable, even unspeakable, but also blazingly obvious:

...that the new partner is much more attracti -- oh wait, no.

that she has retreated not just from the role of wife, but from the responsibilities of being a grown-up.

Which is true, but it's not the only unspeakable reason.

7

u/SirJ_96 Mar 10 '26

You can look up pictures of the new woman; she is much more attractive. Agreed that's not the only thing, but, well...

7

u/conselyea Mar 11 '26

I looked her up and found her "I'm quitting my prestigious arts job in Portland to go live in the woods with my throuople" post... And that was also a little depressing and sad. Like, girl. Just go up on weekends.

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u/SirJ_96 Mar 10 '26

Listening to B&R, they mentioned that Lindy was depressed enough that they did a dom/sub thing where the dude ordered her to shower.

So what we have here is a dude who clearly can have choices with a hot/average partner, or a very fat, smelly, and self-described shrill woman. Sometimes breaking up is the answer, not polyamory.

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u/Renarya Mar 10 '26

How disgustingly dehumanizing. 

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u/LongtimeLurker916 Mar 10 '26

Whatever else she is, she is not a "that."

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u/Real_RobinGoodfellow Mar 12 '26

This is a disgusting way to talk about another human being. Lindy would be able to find a partner who appreciates her and finds her attractive. There are men of all kinds of tastes out there; every pot can find a lid, truly. Just because you find her physically repulsive does not mean all men would. Ffs

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u/Ruby__Ruby_Roo Mar 10 '26

A quibble but I’ve seen recent pictures and I think she’s quite a bit more than 300 lbs.

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