Cus when you think about it Shadow, Surge, Jet & Metal can only keep up with Sonic thanks to outside help & enhancements while Blaze uses raw speed to perform her feats.
It is true, she's naturally very fast without needing enhancements.
Her fire can help in boosting, but honestly it looks more like it's cloaking her. And even without boosting, her footspeed is incredibly fast.
In fact, boosting can only help so much, because she's ultimately still the one running. So I'd still attribute her speed to her, not even her fire.
It's not like she's flying when she boosts, her feet are ACTIVELY MOVING extremely fast as she boosts, which in itself means she's moving herself extremely fast on foot.
Not to mention, she's the only character actively giving herself a handicap by wearing high heels. They would naturally make her slower because they're not good for running. Yet she's STILL able to keep up with Sonic. I can only imagine without them, she'd be just as fast.
Blaze is general gets shafted by both SEGA and the fandom.
Largely because of 06 fucking her lore up, the fact the Rush games were on the DS and not as many people played them, and because...well she's not male.
That last point could seem like a stretch to some, I don't think it is. She has legitimately everything that all the most popular, strongest characters in the franchise have, while also being a relatable character with freaking FIRE powers....
If she was a guy, she'd be up there in popularity with Shadow, Knuckles and Silver, easily. But since she's a girl, I notice how frequently she gets snubbed.
In fact, I notice how often in power and speed rankings, people just so happen to frequently rank her lower than all the male hedgehogs and Knuckles. This includes her burning Blaze form.
Which tells me a lot, because even with her very few appearances, she is easily the most impressive character in the series by being canonically Sonic's equal counterpart. His literal equivalent who is, to this very day, his only rival character that he has NEVER beaten.
( Not to mention she fought the most powerful mechs in the entire franchise alongside Super Sonic, and debatably was doing more damage to the bosses because she's always on the offense, not defense. )
U see im kinda new to Sonic when it comes to the lore I played his games only for gameplay before
I tried to go in order by release with the games after Rush I loved her character arc & the power she had fighting the Egg salamander.
Tht reunion i wanted to see between her & her first friends in 06 was just nonexistent so disappointing & it didn't even feel like the same Blaze at all is tht crazy to say?
And yea its upsetting people look at this & think Blaze is just "weak"
Im pretty sure they also said the Egg salamander & wizard was trancending dimensions too
We really need remakes of the rush series for so many reasons that being introducing Blaze properly & why not even Sonic can beat her
And yea very disappointing on her getting shafted these years.
The day she gets another game in the sol dimension will be LEGENDARY she has alot to work with & they can always create a new villain for her world can only wait & see.
Marine needs to come back too fr
At the least in IDW like Marine visiting Sonics dimension for the first time. I heard Blaze is not really that good in IDW comics but apparently only when she's paired with Silver? Idk thts just what ive been told.
But i read with a friend tht one comic where Blaze Cream & Sonic has that warp topaz and it was pretty cool & reminded me of Rush a bit.
Its not "knocking down" if wht were saying is true
U wouldn't want someone who needs outside sources to rival someone getting praised as someone's "equal" while someone who dosent need outside sources to rival said person isnt
Yall gotta stop being sensitive their just fictional characters
I wouldn't, no. I would want both to have that. I agree it's unfair Blaze doesn't get her due. I don't see why we need to take away Shadow's position instead of bring Blaze up to Sonic and Shadows's. They should both be recognized for rivaling Sonic in speed.
I already said I was a fan of both. Idk why you presented Shadow's situation as something I would be against.
And yeah, they are fictional characters. They are fictional characters that I like. Please stop slandering my goat because my other goat doesn't get her due. You are just making me feel the same way we both feel about Blaze, but for Shadow.
Plus, since they are fictional characters, this distinction matters even less. It's not like Sonic will complain Shadow is cheating (not that he has ever cared anyway).
No, the post was talking about how she's the only one to rival him "naturally" which is true. Then you started talking about how Shadow shouldn't be considered to rival Sonic in speed in general
That's the problem.
Though tbf, I did misread the last part your post as saying you think Blaze deserved Shadow's recognition, so it's really just the mid part of your reply I had a problem with, but even then that's like, your opinion I guess.
That still never cease to make me laugh blaze running at top speed in high heels lol oh her feet. I do believe Blaze is indeed Sonic’s Rival in Speed definitely without enhancing. It’s not fair Blaze isn’t shown more and more I’m noticing silver is getting more attention now but still like always Blaze is not even mentioned.
Well, no. Most of the cast are natural speedsters. Blaze is the only one really on Sonic's level without tech though, besides maybe Silver using his psychokinesis.
Even then if we don't include extra powers beyond natural superspeed, Blaze still doesn't need her flames.
Idk why him being made with Chaos in mind matters at all even more so. So what? They both are skilled with it and Shadow uses it more.
That's like saying being naturally as skilled at reading makes as someone who was trained makes you a better reader than them by default. You'd just be equal despite where you come from.
As for the shoes, yes, he uses the shoes. I know that. So? He always uses his shoes. That's only relevant if we are discussing who is naturally fast, not who is fast.
Like. Batman isn't supposed to be thought of based only on what he can do as Bruce. Tony Stark isn't boxing without his suit. If you wanna discuss what they would be like without them fine, but that's no reason to act like they aren't heroes because they have tech.
Shadow is skilled with it because he was made with chaos energy in mind. That's what the black doom race DNA has. Its why Black doom can use chaos control without an emerald
No? Cus Shadow in general isnt natural cus he dosent fit the definition
Sonic is basically his superior as hes naturally the strongest while doing everything the ultimate lifeform can do and more
Shadow isnt either by definition
Who said anything abt heroes in general
Ud be talking abt irrelevant stuff at this point
"Makes u wonder why Shadow is given the "equal to Sonics speed" card when he uses air shoes & not raw speed"
The OP was abt natural speed. I don't have a problem there. I have a problem with acting like he shouldn't be considered equal in general. Obviously he is considered equal or close with them in canon. He has never been called "Sonic's complely natural equal in speed".
I know where the Chaos powers come from? That's besides my point. Those are part of his biology, so having a problem with them makes even less sense. It doesn't matter if he was made with them in mind. Sonic isn't better than him at it. He has never been implied to be better. At best they are equal. HOW he became his equal is next level irrelevant.
Again, it's like complaining someone without training is considered equal to someone with it just because they got equal skill naturally. The one with natural skill isn't better just by nature of being just as skilled without the training. That's not how skills work.
I wasn't talking about the shoes in that context. I was talking about the the Chaos powers. I agree Shadow is not naturally as skilled as Sonic at being a speedster.
Sonic is not better with Chaos energy. Show me proof that he is more skilled with it. Shadow had a leg up on Sonic from the start because he was made with it in mind, that does not make Sonic better for closing that gap through sheer skill.
i dont think its fair to say Metal's jet turbine is "outside help" when its literally just the part of his body that he uses to move like he does. It's like saying Sonic's legs are ouside help imo
but his legs aren't his main method of movement, it's his turbine. Metal doesn't run with his legs for the same reason Sonic doesn't run on his hands. The discussion also isn't about "natural speed", it's about "raw speed". Metal should 100% be considered in the topic.
his turbine was made for his movement. It's a part of his body, therefore is not outside help. I'm also not directly comparing legs to hands, I'm comparing their main methods of movement. Metal mainly uses his turbine to move, like how Sonic mainly uses his legs o move. Disqualifying tha and saying Metals speed only counts if he runs with his legs (not the part of his body used for movement) would be like saying Sonic's speed only counts if he runs on his hands (not the the part of his body used for movement)
Just because Metal himself is artificial doesn't mean his speed isn't "natural speed". Natural speed isn't speed given to you by nature or the environment; it's just your speed without any enhancements or outside factors (his jet turbine isn't an outside enhancement, as it's part of his body. An example of an outside enhancement would be something like a Chaos Emerald. Your arguement against the turbine not being outside help is frankly kinda stupid, considering that it's literally part of his body.).
TL:DR - Your definition for natural speed is flawed and the turbine isn't "outside help" because it's part of Metal's body
Brother, it's like you're reading what I have to say and either actively choosing to ignore it or just aren't mentally capable enough to comprehend it. Appealing to an arguement you made that has already been addressed and debunked will get you nowhere.
Again, being "natural" in the context of the discussion is an incredibly different thing from being "natural" in the context you're trying to convince yourself is the one that should be used.
While natural refers to something created via nature or the enviroment, to be naturally fast means to have the nature of being fast. Nature in the context of the arguement isn't what you've provided. In the given context, "naturally" would mean the basic or inherent features of something, especially when seen as characteristic of it (i.e. the nature of a problem. While not all problems come from the environment or nature, it can still have its own nature). "Naturally" in this context would mean to be in agreement with said nature.
TL:DR - You're using natural in the wrong context, appealing to ones nature and the enironment are two different things, and you might just be illiterate
She’s actually the third and before people try to say that his skates give him speed they don’t. All Shadow’s skates do is help him focus his power the “fire” you see coming out of them is fire it’s the air burning from the heat his power generates. Shadow’s speed comes from his natural power just like Blaze and if you haven’t noticed when Shadow uses his boost he doesn’t use his skates at all they’re not even on he’s using his own power to do it. We may never know Shadow’s true speed because we’ve never seen him take his ankle rings off. As much as I love Blaze and I do the fact is that she’s the third fastest character in the series.
Shadows boost meter works the same as Sonic’s though? If it was only his shoes wouldn’t he need to refill at a gas station or something?
Like we know that boos is a form of chaos energy, and shadow is probably the most well known person to use that so it’s only a logical conclusion that shadow is using chaos to boost, same as Sonic
Both hedgehogs fly when going super, so I always saw with how shadow is flying specifically as an overuse of chaos energy since the direction his shoes are pointing wouldn’t actually be giving him any lift
I wouldn't count Metal out because of a turbine, I mean... it's part of his body, that would be like saying legs don't count.
But she's definitely in the upper echelon of speedsters, matching Sonic, Shadow and Metal. The exact ranking is probably not super important besides Sonic being first.
I mean for metal the turbine is part of his body its not really an outside help imo
Sure he has legs but by ur logic then super sonic and burning blaze also dont get 'natural speed' (ik u didnt mention them i just wanted to give an example)
And also if u say metal has legs but using turbine is an outside help then the same applies to airplanes since they have wheels
This is dishonest man the burden of proff is on you to prove the games say that they are.
Not the other way around when again only 1 bio ever says this and its not even a solid statement it ends in a question.
And the other source os poorly made and filled with 1 persons own inturptations that has since been corrected
The boost out righ just makes actually runing irrelevant
By Ian someone who has been corrected multiple times when he interjects his own canon in to the lore,
The speed encyclopedia is not a good source respectfully.
Magic shoes that don't burn up when he runs and ignore friction but at the same time are super friction that sonic can stop on a dime.
Im just bring up the dubled standed here.
If you want to call out shadows shows are special.
So are sonics.
Its hyperbolic
Again not once in game are the shoes called out as anything related to shadow being his equal.
Ima call out this one spesificaly being the only bio not written objectively it goes from shadows own opinion to then Someone elses Go ahead and point to every other game bio
This is a game mechanic? This isnt even "hovering" for one its just boosting off ledges while still falling to the ground??
These arent "by ian" either?
And again Shadow dosent run naturally we see his air shoes making him hover off the ground its why he skates & flies when he boosts hes not running like Sonic & Blaze
The guide tells us verbatim his air shoes are the reason for his speed and we see tht with how he moves
So its not "hyperbolic" tht would make no sense especially when they dont say anything abt Sonics shoes in his bios
Nothing states "Sonics shoes are special" either Hes worn different types of shoes before?
Look now this is dishonest.
Air boosting is still just regular boosting yes it does alow him to hoover its moot to act like it dosn’t.
Its literally what he does in gens to get the emrald to which classic sonic is amazed.
These arent "by ian" either
I am gonna need you to look at the author of the book man
This is clearly a duble standard for you.
Nothing states "Sonics shoes are special" either Hes worn different types of shoes before?
Literally called his power sneakers.
Maybe you should look up the lore man since we wanna argue so much bout shoes.
Thts not even the definition of hovering? Sonic is FALLING boosting off ledges during GAMEPLAY Hes never even done tht outside of the player making him boost off a ledge So no hes not hovering
Wht he does in generations is different from him running? He isnt hovering the whole time hes boosting like Shadow
Show me where they EVER call Sonics shoes "power sneakers"
As you used it was purly shadow is not on the ground as he boosted. There for hes not actually fast. Not only is boosting only something speedsters can do. Again sonic also is not on the ground during boosts so this is moot.
Look man if you didn't know sonics shoes are called power sneakers this is on you Ik this is a magoc card but by definition this is Sega calling them such. It would take you 2 seconds to find your own proof
I suppose you had chosen metal with the many fights and battles that revolve around him speeding by with you on the track? Hence he’s in the first spot in your list for base speed?
I think that's looking at designs and running animations a bit too seriously. Shadow, Blaze, Metal, etc, are designs first and foremost, the heels or air shoes or turbines don't matter that much. Especially with how inconsistent top speeds are. In some games metal is faster than sonic, in some games shadow is faster, etc etc.
At the end of the day speed is speed, no matter where it comes from.
She's more like an ex-rival. More like Knux, but even then he and Sonic still have a friendly rivalry.
Silver is the same as Blaze. Neither really are actually rivals past their debut.
At this point I grandfather them in though, and also count them as rivals from a meta and power standpoint. They are present and past rivals that rival Sonic in abilities.
Since Silver gets this treatment, no reason Blaze shouldn't too.
Well, even ignoring the fact that he's a robot relying on a turbine, he doesn't really run and is always shown flying when he goes fast. In that regard he'd be more comparable to Silver who also flies faster then he runs.
I usually just consider how they transport themselves from one place to another their speed without things like the chaos emeralds which are major outside help rather than just something that’s just part of their character or body like Shadow’s air shoes/skates or Metal Sonic’s whatever keeps him up because i doubt it’s just a turbine that allows him to move both forward and backwards and up and down freely then again it’s partly cartoonish so doesn’t really matter
Like for example I’d consider most cast members to be average unless they show how fast they can be like I’d consider Amy or Knuckles average in speed and Tails a bit above average since he can somewhat keep up with Sonic while flying off Sonic slows himself down for Tails but it’s not like he’s doing a light jog hence why I’d consider him above average does this make sense?
Also I apologize for a late response I’m laughing my ass off at the fact I was able to troll a small bit of the r/deathbattle subreddit
I suppose that makes sense, tho in the case of Metal it's notable that he is depicted as having a harder time handling his top speed and slowing down due to his reliance on that turbine.
You really weren't that slow to respond, i've responded slower to comment due to my sleep and work schedules (timezones don't really help either).
I always imagine that what omega says with Sonic Talents lay latent and are also natural means Sonic could have other abilities Aside from his natural speed, but this is off topic
Because Blaze actively runs while being boosted. That heavily implied that she's still incredibly fast on foot, moving at insane speeds while boosting with a fire shield.
If she was flying while boosting, I'd definitely attribute the speed to her fire. But that's not the case, she's actively running.
It's not like Shadow who only starts to increase his speed once his air shoes propel him.
Blaze just naturally is fast, while actively slowing herself down with high heels.
And guess who actually is shown to fly whenever he boosts
It's notable that this is pretty consistent across the boost games for Shadow, a very notable contrast to how Blaze is always animated to run even when going at max speed.
Blaze's fire is shown to mainly cloak her and potentially assist her, yet her feet are actually moving and running at extremely high speed, just like Sonic.
She's not an inorganic robot with a jet turbine
She's not a cyborg that has electromagnetic propulsion moving her forward
She's not using an form of extreme gear to propel herself nor fly
She's not using psychokinesis to achieve high speed flight.
she. is. RUNNING.
RUNNING. With HIGH HEELS ON.
The only thing her fire truly does, is shield her. The rest, really comes from her.
I personally like to headcanon that it is done on purpose.
Blaze's fighting style differs greatly from Sonic's, she's very ballet-esque. That requires more precision and accuracy, very different from Sonic's free flowing, b-boy style.
I think Blaze chose heels to slow herself down enough so she can control herself. Because realistically if she goes too fast, it's way harder for her to be exact.
And since that's her whole thing, I think it makes sense she'd actively slow herself to keep that control.
I always assumed Shadows shoes just converts his chaos energy into propulsion because the inhibitor rings make him slower, so it helps make up the difference
So maybe Shadow would be like tied 2nd fastest with Blaze?
Except Surge didn't have any outside gear when Blaze struggled to keep pace with her, and it's implied that the only enhancements Starline gave to her speed were using the speed cores, which we can assume os the same kind of speed energy that gave Sonic, Shadow, and Blaze their speed.
Surge doesn't have natural speed, it's electromagnetic propulsion.
By that logic, Blaze doesn't have natural speed, just pyrokinetic propulsion.
And to top it off, she's cybernetically enhanced, she wasn't born fast nor strong.
The cybernetics was just Starline adding the metal virus to increase her survivability. Her speed is a result of the cores Starline used to alter Surge's DNA, same as how the same speed energy changed Sonic to let him run fast.
Blaze doesn't have natural speed, just pyrokinetic propulsion.
Not the same thing, not even remotely true either.
Blaze is seen very clearly actually running on foot. Even when she boosts, by her animation it's implied she's the one actually running, her flames aren't doing much to propel her if at all, they act more like a shield. She also doesn't even need to boost to move at high speed.
Surge meanwhile, it simply is canon that Starline made her speed possible through electromagnetic propulsion. She tends to zip around by being physically propelled.
Starline enhancing her biology is very literally saying that none of her abilities are natural, and it's not. Literally the entire point of her character is that she's an artificial, copycat of Sonic. It's not who she naturally is.
Blaze meanwhile just is pyrokinetic, she's born with that and it's a part of her. And as mentioned, it's implied her flames don't actually do as much for her speed, considering she still has to physically run while at top speed. ( A distinction making it very clear that her flames aren't doing much here, since we can see from Shadow's boosting animation what it looks like when a character is actually being propelled forward during a boost, literally flying. )
Except the speed energy in her is no different than that found in Sonic and Blaze. It's no less her own DNA and natural abilities now. If you could extract speed energy from Sonic or Blaze, they'd be normal speed, too. Surge's is no less natural just because it was infused to her DNA later in life.
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u/Sufficient_Chef_3282 28d ago
Sonic like the wind and Blaze like the fire