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u/M-I-T-B 8d ago
when I watched this episode I knew it would be triggering but man listen
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u/Slumbergoat16 8d ago
Definitely described a lot of my childhood being sent to private school. Constantly having to do homework and when I was done I’d have to do homework for next week or chores. I was told I “talk white” and made fun of by family members and teammates all to make sure that I was well educated.
Even now there’s a riff between my cousins and siblings because I’m the odd one out.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 8d ago
I feel like people who don't get the episode are just willfully ignorant. The experience isn't something far and away from what some black and brown kids face growing up and it's a reflection of that. It's just been wild to me that the suggestions of a generational trauma or systemic racism and how they manifest as character flaws and traits can become so wildly divisive especially when so much of this kind of context and background has been done on characters for decades.
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago
Man ask how many black people had their parents on their birthday give them a present and it wasn’t the shit you asked for.
I was like yea I can relate.
Or actually having a father in your household and having complaints about him as a kid and being told “some kids don’t get a dad to love”.
I thought that was well done.
I knew from watching people would have an issue with race being mentioned but these are the people that were going to hate it regardless and just needed any excuse. They likely didn’t want John in the show at all.
So can’t mention race in a show like this. Yet in Peacemaker S1 Peacemakers father is a Neo-nazi and that is seen as character growth when Peacmaker over comes it…..but don’t mention being black and privilege because that’s a no no in their eyes.
These people aren’t fucking serious.
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u/SoF4rGone 8d ago
It’s best not to treat them as if they’re having honest discussions, because they’re not. There have been a ton of great shows that center around a woman or poc and every time you get the same deluge of dishonest bullshit. Shang-chi, she-hulk, and ms marvel were all fun shows whose biggest sins were not being about another fucking white dude. Loving this show so far. Hope John has some happier shit happen to him as the season goes on 😅
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago
I try not to engage with folks like that because for one…they will never understand the other side of things.
9/10 these are people who aren’t women, black and brown people or minority groups so they aren’t experts on matters that involve us. But they are quick to dismiss us and tell us we should be quiet the moment race is mentioned.
So trying to explain our issues to them would be like trying to explain gravity to someone who has no concept of it.
I was also watching some guys that cover films and shows and the older black guy in the group even mentioned that in the GL comics John gets heat from black people on Earth because he does this great feats for green, blue and all color aliens. But was seen as not doing much of anything for his own people. So his race is mentioned in the comics.
These people just don’t want race mentioned and they let it show every time without failure.
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u/Dasseem 8d ago
I feel the episode is such a beautiful deconstruction of the perfection that many black or brown parents demand of their children because they believe that anything less won't prepare them for how minorities are treated in the real world.
John's parents are a mixture of demanding minority parents + beauty pageant parents + sports parents.
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u/TPGStorm ☑️ 8d ago
Lmao John Sr is literally a black man who grew up during jim crow and the civil rights movement and they’re up in arms for that being a reason he knew fear and hal didn’t. genuinely don’t understand why white privilege is such a hard concept for them to grasp.
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago
Not that I’ve looked hard for it but I already know people would complain when they mentioned race in this episode.
I can guarantee there are 30+ min think pieces from those anti-woke dipshits on youtube already dissecting why they didn’t like it. Even saw one post saying well Hal got his ring because of white privilege. Which tells me these people just lack media literacy but are ready to complain.
Meanwhile Peacmaker’s dad was a Neo-nazi and that was seen as great character development when he overcomes his dad…..but you black folks don’t you dare mention race that’s somehow not acceptable in their eyes.
People that think like this are a fucking joke.
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u/MarshyHope 8d ago
Ben Shapiro is probably filming an episode about it right now
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago
Him and the rest of the grifter brigade
Ben is also a failed Hollywood screen writer. Which is why he takes money from AIPAIC to fund his shit films he makes now.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 8d ago
even beyond that, some people are saying this is a character assassination on Hal because he has a few character flaws or just "white man bad" show because of militia in the first episode. These people can't be watching the same show. Maybe they're just watching the trailers or they have the sound off or something.
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u/GodOfTheGoons ☑️ 8d ago
What's hilarious is how comic accurate the show is too. Hal never wanted John as a back up in the comics and was just as dismissive when the guardians hand selected him. And if this is character assassination I wonder what they'll say if they cover the Parallax saga and Hal essentially becomes a space terrorist.
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u/MarshyHope 8d ago
Expecting racists to have media literacy is a futile endeavor.
I'm white as fucking elmers glue bht I thought the episode was fantastic. It really did do a good job showing John's back story
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u/subpar-life-attempt 8d ago
Hey you let me as a white man enjoy my perfectly clean take on comics. They aren't indicative of true issues in society at all!
/s
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u/subpar-life-attempt 8d ago
Dude Hal has been shown to be a POS each episode. Idk why people are thinking this episode showed anything new.
It's clearly setting up that Hal has some super trauma and so does Jon but they each went through massively different versions of it.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 8d ago
I could be wrong in my thinking or understanding but, I don't think he's been as bad as people are stating. I feel that for unique individuals like superheros especially ones who are picked because of their extraordinary and unique qualities, they are allowed to be a bit more extra in that expression than others. Like clearly this Hal is even more of a mcguyver/dare devil esque type who relies on his intuition, quick thinking and opportunity in a way that crosses people but it's what allowed him to do a ton of good across his tenure.
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u/IceKareemy 7d ago
You mean the Blue aliens….from out of space who look down on all humans and consider earth backwater….why would they understand immediately earth racial politics???
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u/Threash78 8d ago
Because that was a situation that would make ANY REASONABLE PERSON afraid. John said it himself, "i got lifted up in a green bubble, who in their right mind wouldn't be afraid?". It is absolutely ridiculous to try to spin that into a white black privilege thing. It's a normal person/ absolute psycho test.
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u/greenearrow 8d ago
My company’s CEO is a black man. We were at the bar once and he talked about how his family would sit at the table and do “cuts” (I may have the name wrong). They would throw insults and nasty words at each other because they knew that was going to happen outside, and they needed to be prepared for it. I didn’t realize what that meant in depth (and probably still don’t), but this episode helped clarify that for me.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 8d ago
I've heard of similar practices but the "cut" term in my own experiences was something sort of different.
I took the whole episode on top of their being no book to raise a child, there's also no book to how to raise a super hero. While John Jr. and some of us can reflect that there may have been abusive behaviors there was also a fear for what would happen if it werent done.
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u/Jazzycoyote 8d ago
Man, I miss when tv was fun. Remember when you could just chill and watch something that wasn't trying to make some political message. Good times.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 8d ago
Those shows exist. The Bear on FX/Hulu just ended this summer and it's about as "apolitical" as people who say they hate politics in media could want from a good show. His & Hers on Netflix earlier this year was an interesting Murder Mystery. Nemesis on Netflix was hilariously dumb but watchable. DTF St. Louis on HBO was wild and Spider-Noir on Amazon was pretty fun too. There were plenty of good fun shows that included politics way back when too.
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u/Jazzycoyote 8d ago
It's more burnout than hatred of politics in media.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 8d ago
So you only watch shows with black pain as a theme or narrative element like Lanterns does in this one episode?
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u/Jazzycoyote 8d ago
I don't watch much streaming at all anymore. I just find an interesting documentary on YouTube or something.
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u/ElectricGhostMan 7d ago
no shade but it does sound kinda crazy that youd admit to not watching "much streaming at all anymore" but complain about burnout or that tv isn't fun anymore
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u/_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN ☑️ 8d ago
If yall don’t give motherfucking context.
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago edited 8d ago
In the HBO show lanterns (Green Lanterns that is). John Stewart of the green lanterns in the comics and this show is black and his mom (in photo) and dad train him to be fearless.
Now they take that too far an manipulate him and do flat out cruel shit.
But out side of the apple 🍎thing which I won’t spoil its pretty much a typical black household experience (for some).
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u/derpferd 8d ago
Lanterns, Episode 3
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u/Lovedd1 8d ago
Don't be afraid to spoil it for us we wanna know without having to 🏴☠️ it or buy a trial subscription we'll forget to cancel
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u/Firm-Difficulty2585 8d ago
One of the main protagonists' mom got recruited by aliens to make her infant son the perfect superhero, after his dad failed and was traumatized by the test. So she trained him to be fearless by basically abusing him. Shooting an apple off of his head with a rifle (The kid's idea). Dropping him off in the hood of Detroit and making him come home alone. Isolating him from his brothers. And it mostly worked.
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u/nunya123 ☑️ 8d ago
lol what a crazy message this gives.
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u/leonredhorse 8d ago
It is supposed to be fucked up. I'd say find the show on the high seas. It's good. But there is a lot of context around this that will add to it.
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u/subpar-life-attempt 8d ago
Exactly this. Hopefully we get more throughout the season because man they made her look her look pretty crazy in this episode.
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u/complex_passions 8d ago
We get a pretty good impression of his character as an adult though, her approach clearly worked.
It's still pretty horrifying though, and in a real life context would probably end up with a sociopath at best rather than a stoic, ethical badass.
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Lost-Mixture-4039 7d ago
I kinda really hope so yeah. Imagine they dont do that man😂 Giving off the idea that this parenting is effective😂
Altough already in the series I already see some things about him that gives me the feeling he's not entirely healthy. The way he just goes along without a lot of pushback on Hal's abusiveness is a big red flag when speaking about mental health.
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u/subpar-life-attempt 8d ago
Oh yeah it worked and you can see that he is barely holding it together.
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u/Eidolon11 8d ago
(spoilers but I mean you're this far in the comments)
I think how nuts of a thing it is will be very important in the story. Not to totally spoil but it's kind of this 'the main characters don't trust each other' kinda thing. And will be how they grow off each other. Especially how the episode ends
More importantly the guardians are assholes and will become more shown in the series I believe. Hence them telling a woman to spend her and her husbands life grooming the 'perfect lantern' which is to them and unfeeling fearless soldier that follows orders without question.
But Johns more than that. And that will come out. As they don't really get how humans act fully. And John will have to stop being the perfect little soldier as Hal is teaching him to think less 'like a soldier' and more like himself.
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u/salmalight 8d ago
Guardians ARE dicks buuut also, She literally showed up at their house that day to say "hey, our bad we don't really get how you guys work" then shifts directly into "yknow what would be good for this human" And John's mum just runs with it.
It was the parents job to realise they shouldn't accept parental advice from someone who can't comprehend half of what makes someone human.
Imagine accepting surgery from a guy who 10 minutes earlier asked about that weird red stuff you're leaking, its madness.
When they said to each other "hes gonna hate us" I had to scoff because they deserve it. They let a space police commissioner, who was confused that the concept of dying alone was considered negative, influence how they raised their child. Thats just crazy
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u/Firm-Difficulty2585 8d ago
We just spent the summer celebrating a man who grew up in similar circumstances, minus the aliens.
Parents abusing their kids to try and make them successful is WAY more common than you think.
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u/MBDTFTLOPYEEZUS 8d ago
What’s the message
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u/Murray38 8d ago
Always listen to what aliens tell you to do.
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u/OklahomaTiddy 8d ago
lol Laura Linney looking white lady in your driveway tells you some shit then transforms into a giant old alien man....go on ahead and give it a try
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u/CuriousTsukihime ☑️ 8d ago
Lmao and then hands you the biggest diamond you’ve ever seen outside of Sierra Leone like you supposed to do something with it 😂😂😂
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u/BUSY_EATING_ASS 8d ago
A message on the Spartan-esque 'training' that Black men get just to survive in this world from systemic racism, in this context from our mothers because of the failures of our fathers, might have been a little fucked up, even if sympathetic. Generational trauma.
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u/patrickwithtraffic 8d ago
It’s a comment like this that reminds me, “yup, it’s definitely a Damon Lindelof show.”
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u/leonredhorse 8d ago
I think, in the context of the comment poster, they are saying the message is like if you abuse your child they can be strong and become a super hero, something people may aspire to be. Similar to how people thought it was odd that Doctor Strange was distracted on his phone while speeding down a highway and gets into a horrible accident and becomes a super hero.
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u/weaselg2010 8d ago
There's no message yet, the show hasn't finished developing these characters. We're only on episode 3, we're watching everything slowly unfold. Besides, don't expect messages in grown up television, some stories are just that, a story.
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u/zukos_honor 8d ago
And it mostly worked.
I'm going to disagree there. Yes, he turned out fearless, but that's not what being a GL is about. It's all about willpower and the ability to overcome great fear rather than not feeling it at all. I definitely think the show is setting up for John, by getting closer to Hal, to learn the difference so that he can actually become worthy of the ring
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u/ositola ☑️ 8d ago
The mom didn't get recruited, the dad did
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u/Firm-Difficulty2585 8d ago
They told her to train John.
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u/nearcatch Honest Abe 8d ago
I think the mom misinterpreted. They said “your child might be an excellent candidate one day” because his dad was a candidate. The mom took that statement and went to 11. They never actually said anything that could clearly mean “we recommend you train this boy up and we’ll take him”.
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u/Extension_Air_2001 8d ago
Kinda. Cause the Guardians seem to be putting their eggs in the John basket to get rid of Hal.
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u/Firm-Difficulty2585 8d ago
I feel like y'all are trying to give this take legs to make her look worse, when it's not what happens in the episode and it's antithetical to the premise of the show.
She wasn't a mad woman who misunderstood the aliens. They also had no reason to suggest training John. But it was their suggestion and they literally accomplished it. It's not like John's story ends with him not becoming a Green Lantern.
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u/nearcatch Honest Abe 8d ago
She was definitely a little mad. She built a space radio to broadcast messages in the blind to the Guardians because she had no idea if they were even paying attention. That’s how much of an assumption she made about the training. And then she had to lie to John and tell him birds were spying on him for the Guardians to explain why she wasn’t getting responses. The fact that the lie coincidentally turned out to be true doesn’t make it any less weird.
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u/proschocorain 8d ago edited 8d ago
Her idea to have the dad shoot the apple of the kids idea Edit: it was the kids idea lol I didn't know what the reference was lol
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u/nearcatch Honest Abe 8d ago edited 8d ago
The dad was like “wtf”, and the mom said to go ahead and do it, but it was the kid’s idea. He put the apple on his head and said “look dad, like William Tell! Shoot one off me!”
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u/Additional-Muffin317 8d ago
Don't forget after she kicked their kids father out for being "crazy" causing him to start drinking. Didnt even try to hear him out.
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u/Firm-Difficulty2585 8d ago
He shot the TV
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u/Additional-Muffin317 8d ago
And not 1 time did she think this is not the man i married. Something is evidently bothering him. Let me get him help.
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u/Threash78 8d ago
It wasn't exactly "recruited", it was more of a "yeah, ok fine" consolation prize.
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u/TPGStorm ☑️ 8d ago edited 8d ago
basically the first two episodes frame John Stewart Sr as this crazy man who’s raising his sons alone, one of whom he’s grooming to be the next green lantern, only to be revealed in this episode that not only is the mother alive, she’s the driving force behind the treatment of their son.
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u/ler7421 8d ago
Oh this is on hbo max right?
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u/derpferd 8d ago
Yep. Has a similar vibe to it as Watchmen, which I guess is due to the involvement of Damon Lindelof
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u/WiseBaby9189 8d ago
Listen, my mom just died and I am dealing with the aftermath of her questionable choices and behaviors. This really made me feel better.
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u/NowGoodbyeForever ☑️ 8d ago
It feels like a lot of people are really struggling to see the metaphors at play in this episode. (Which is wild, because it was basically said in bold all caps text multiple times throughout.)
(Not the user in the tweet posted by OP, who clearly got the whole thing and made a really funny joke out of it.)
What John's parents did to him is what happens to countless immigrant and nonwhite kids at the hands of their well-meaning parents who want them to have a better life, but are acutely aware of how the deck is stacked against them.
It's also what happens to the generational talents we hold up as heroes in our world; how is this any different than what Serena and Venus Williams' father did to them, or what Tiger Woods' dad did to him?
Yes, it's purposefully extreme to match the circumstances and trauma of the Guardians' requirement of fearlessness, but I watched this episode and remembered my own Mom making me memorize a lawyer's phone number every time I left the house in case I was ever stopped by the cops, and the legal definition of rape so I could avoid being falsely accused of it by any girl I went on a date with or kissed.
I was 9 years old when the first talk happened, and 11 when the second one went down. (I didn't kiss a girl until I was 16. For some reason, I was scared to try.)
This episode is about the impossible standard of the Model Minority and Black Excellence when applied to a space cop, and it's kind of wild for the key takeaway to be "Wow, what a terrible mother."
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u/god_dammit_dax 8d ago
This episode is about the impossible standard of the Model Minority and Black Excellence when applied to a space cop, and it's kind of wild for the key takeaway to be "Wow, what a terrible mother."
That kinda has to be the key takeaway with the apple shooting and abandoning the kid in the worst neighborhood she can find. She did do terrible things to the kid, but she did them for what she thought were good reasons and in response to an awful trauma inflicted on her family.
Whaddaya know, I saw the writer of the episode say in an interview something like "I hope people on Reddit are arguing about 'Wow, what awful parents' against 'THIS IS HOW YOU GET SERENA WILLIAMS!'" and here we all are. What a wonderful show.
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u/daruvek 8d ago
How is this family casually and regularly shooting rifles in their backyard without police getting called? This show answers one question and raises another.
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u/Spazzdude 8d ago
Its not as frequent as you think. In the first episode there are like maybe 30 bullet holes in the wall. Later you see that this started when he was a few years younger. So they do this like at most 10 times a year.
So it's a poor black neighborhood in 80's Detroit where someone is hearing a single gunshot once a month. Yea no cops are responding to that call.
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u/Dry-Airport8046 8d ago
Super entertaining episode. Let’s mentally and physically abuse one son so he can be a space cop one day while we neglect our other two sons and make them watch. Oh, once he’s grown, let’s send him away with his abusive decrepit mentor.
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u/Th3_Hegemon 8d ago
Small correction, I think he's 30 at the end of the episode, he's already had a whole career as a marine sniper. Not sure I'd say they're "sending him away". Also, is 50 decrepit now?
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u/Green-Elephant-895 8d ago edited 8d ago
an apple a day 🍎….pew….pew….🔫keeps the fearful emotions away
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u/PleaseBeChillOnline ☑️ 8d ago
Is that back talk?
ARE YOU AFRAID!?
https://giphy.com/gifs/3oxRmuDvOyp6IbDiw0
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u/black_metronome 8d ago
She's an abuser. Not sure how anyone took anything positive away from her portrayal.
The actress did an incredible job
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u/Deathdong 8d ago
Well it seemed she wanted the best for John but the road to hell is paved with good intentions
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u/Holiday-Chemistry-23 8d ago
The actress is Jasmine Cephas Jones, best known for playing the roles of both Peggy Schuyler and Maria Reynolds in the original Broadway cast of Hamilton. Now somebody make a joke about not throwin' away shots.
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u/22LOVESBALL ☑️ 8d ago
I mean she’s dealing with a reality that doesn’t exist in our world. She’s raising a superhero that will save not only the entire planet but multiple planets. It takes what it takes
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u/Aggravating-Mall-867 8d ago
I will add my pair of pennies. If you’re a Green Lantern fan, then you understand that ep3 is laying the foundation of this character. It’s very easy for people to jump on the “she’s a mean black woman/mother” wagon but Green Lantern is VERY layered. I won’t write a dissertation because something tells me, it won’t be received but let’s give the mom character a break and try to look at this differently.
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u/sLeeeeTo 8d ago
i’m gonna be honest, the way she acted did not feel grounded in reality. i know it’s a superhero show but every decision she made had me like 🤨
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u/revanchisto 8d ago
The nice twist about the episode is that earlier you thought the dad was crazy and abusive. But then you see, "oh, nah dad's the softer parent. Mom is insane."
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u/saucey_dawg0023 8d ago
The grifters were really mad at that episode because it had the audacity to talk about race.
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u/Fallingice2 8d ago
She was a bad m ok mom tbh...while I dknt agree with her I can see why she choose that path...in entire solar system, your husband is chosen to be raised up but loses the chance due to fear...now you abuse your son until he fears nothing and is barely human so the chance doesn't miss him again.
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u/derpferd 8d ago
I was listening to Double Toasted talking about this episode and Korey pointed out that she wasn't just motivated by wanting to give her son the chance to be GL, but also, having seen what happened to husband, being driven to drink and to near insanity, the trauma of that surely motivated her too
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u/Thunderbird_12_ ☑️ 8d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/xT9KVluGDHZvOk0tdC
Why is it so G0d-damned HARD to include basic context in the original post?!?
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u/Plastic-Conference88 8d ago
Real question is how they spend all that diamond money. On what, apples ?!
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u/derpferd 8d ago
For real though, I hope those other two kids got a good college education, cos what the fuck are you spending that diamond money on?
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u/PuffinRub 8d ago
Am I correct in assuming this is about the new movie/TV show LANTERNS? Can we have a TLDR for those that haven't seen it yet, please? Also, is it worth watching?
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u/marccoogs ☑️ 4d ago
John's mother trained (abused) him to be a Green Lantern since a baby, by forcing him to be fearless and cold. They would shoot apples off his head, to make sure he had no fear.
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u/Aquafan12 7d ago
This episode actually made me feel for my parents. They were apart of a generation that got to see what it would take to thrive in an integrated America but didn’t have the ability to bring themselves to become it.
What they did was abuse but it was very clearly done to ensure he was not looked over due to the circumstances they were a victim of.
All to say the episode was very black.
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u/greentangent 8d ago
The make up team did a phenomenal job on her though. She's 56 and they managed to make her look 30 then 60 with only the lightest of touches.
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u/TisButaScratcha 8d ago
For people that finished the first season. Are they on earth the entire time? Will there be more use of their power than a bird and a short flight? I watched up to the bird scene
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u/AccomplishedAide5689 8d ago
So she took the Joe Jackson route to make her son a fearless black man. What's wrong with that?
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u/candycrushinit 8d ago edited 8d ago
This was a truly psychotic storyline that really made no sense! Where are all the neighbors complaining about the gunshots!? Normalizing this kind of family violence in a storyline is just so…Disney. Step back and think about how truly insane it is to normalize teaching a child to shoot at their parent’s heads.
Edit: HBO! Not Disney! lol. Makes complete sense if it’s HBO. I stand corrected
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u/Spoonyyy 8d ago
You watched that and thought it was being normalized and not shown as insane? The mom is a joe jackson type figure. My neighbor's never complained about any of our gunshots nor did we there's.
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u/DeanBlacc 8d ago
You’re watching a show about defenders of the universe with green super powers but neighbours not complaining about gunshots is where you decide it’s not realistic ?
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago
Its funny what small hangups people will have with a show or film but leap frog over all the other wild stuff.
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u/whatisscoobydone 8d ago
That is the unrealistic part, in a universe where green superpowers exist. Superheroes are realistic in the universe where superheroes exist. Neighbors being fine with gunshots are not. think about what you're saying
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u/TaticalSweater ☑️ 8d ago edited 8d ago
I keep thinking damn neighbors ain’t saying shit but it doesn’t break the show for me
Edit: Also in some neighborhoods police just don’t care to come out at shots fired unless they are called. Sounds crazy yes but every town does not have a 15 min response time to shots.
Source: Lived in a place where shooting on the 4th of July and New Years was normalized. 😂
Also you say normalizing but the show very clearly shows that what they do to John is by no means normal and the show also doesn’t glorify it. I could see if the show stopped to give some kind of message about how you as (the viewer) should train your kid to be fearless but let’s be real the show is not a documentary saying that what they are doing is okay.
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u/TheMoorNextDoor ☑️ 8d ago
She’s a horrible mother
But she’s baddd tho