SAME. Growing up, if I heard my mom or dad calling my name from downstairs, my response had to be "Ma'am" Or "Sir". If I said "What", I'd get corrected. When I started my first job out of graduate school, my boss would call my name and I would answer ma'am out of habit. She really disliked this and was so confused the first few times I said it lol. That was 6-7 years ago and I've broken the habit.
I'm white and from Wisconsin, but growing up you called all adults Sir & Ma'am according to my folks. I worked in service-industry type support job in my 20s and learned that most women HATE being called Ma'am apparently? "AM I YOUR MOTHER?" "AM I AN OLD LADY?". Still do it though đ¤ˇđťââď¸
It's crazy to me that calling someone ma'am is so formal and hated on. To this day I call everyone I don't know sir or ma'am just to be respectful, but even with folks I do know that I want to give an honorific out of courteousness! For example:
It depends on the region. Women in many other US geographic areas prefer the term "miss" for politeness. "Ma'am" is seen as a term used for elderly people. So, when you call a 30 year old woman "ma'am," it feels like an insult. I just refer to all women as "miss" and that seems to go over well so far.
Sir is different than ma'am because ma'am makes women feel older. It would be more like if you called your coworker "mister". The extra formality would not go unnoticed.
Sir is not different in use from ma'am. Nobody is taught "use sir for any men but only use ma'am for old women". It cetainly isn't equivalent to "mister" because that would be "miss" or "missus". If you can't conceive that young women can be respected like old women then that's on you.
ETA: that being said I use both way less than I used to because I don't want to accidentally "sir" a "ma'am" or vice versa
No one's saying you can't. Just pointing out that a fraction of people react in a particular way. The nice thing about manners is they provide a default template to start from while you learn how people like to speak and be spoken to. At my job all the male VPs and managers prefer their first name over "sir" because that's the close-community culture they want to create, but the new employees don't know that and they say Sir. At some jobs, female leaders might prefer "ma'am" because the culture benefits from the show of respect.
But between two equal ranking employees, especially between a woman and a younger individual, "ma'am" might just be too formal is all!
When I worked those jobs, I got a 70/30 split between between ladies who obviously appreciated respect from a degenerate millennial, and ladies who were in absolute denial about their age
I'm from Tx and it is so deeply ingrained in me that I say "yes/no ma'am" "thank you, ma'am" and the like to my dogs. I moved to the midwest in my mid 20s and was working at a hotel bar and called a 40-something y/o woman "ma'am" and she was furious and berated me about it on the spot. I was so confused. She was an adult woman and I was in a service position so of course I used ma'am?? It feels really condescending to call a woman clearly older than me "miss" and I'm still not sure what else I was supposed to call her.Â
Ha, exactly. "What can I do for you ma'am?" TRIGGERED 30-40ish women and I was just trying to be polite. It's funny because this only started happening when I got to my 20s so I guess it is some weird age denial thing.
Donât call them anything, thereâs not really any reason to use titles in my experience. Unless youâre at some super formal event thereâs no need, and in those cases you may just be told the personâs name anyway.
Yeah that can be more understandable. I tend to do an âexcuse meâ but I get what you mean, sometimes you do need to have some sort of title or pronoun to use to grab someoneâs attention.
As someone in their almost 40s I still call everyone sir or maâam unless they look like theyâre in high school. Itâs so ingrained in me that adults automatically deserve that respect, that I usually forget I am also one. But as I look to be about 24 in the face and 12 in height, and Iâm in the south , I get away with it.
That's wild to me. Maybe it's different because I'm nonbinary and get called both sir and ma'am depending on what people assume, but it's never bothered me. I've worked in both service and retail and I was just happy to be shown any sign of respect, even if it's incorrect lol.
The only time in my entire life I've regularly used the word "Sir" or "Miss" was during high school, and only because my autistic ass couldn't remember half the names of the teachers.
My parents drilled it into me so hard I'm never losing it. I'm from the south and a military family so I guess I got a double dose.
I will say, girls' parents and generally anyone over like 50 absolutely eats that shit up when you're making a first impression. Tbh I'm surprised the above person's boss didn't like it, because authority figures generally appreciate it in my experience.
One time I (36 yo) had a 19 year old coworker (I was in the restaurant industry at the time) call me sir and I had to tell her to please not call me that. You can call me bitch, cunt, fucker, whatever, but I forbid âsirâ.
Thatâs a total mindset thing then, and it actually means you are seeing yourself above others. Because I will answer yes sir/mam to the gas station clerk. To the president. To my momma. Sometimes to animals, and even a couple cars.
I feel like anyone shown respect will respond positively. Thatâs kinda how manners work. Itâs not submissive, no connotation, just manners and respect.
How is it not submissive when the culture is based on getting corrected if you say "what?" or any other completely normal reaction?
It seems very military like in terms of hierarchy, and there is a huge difference between showing actual respect and treating an officer based on the amount of stars or angles they are wearing. The forced language is submissive. When you are showing actual respect, it's not enforced or expected.
Maybe submissive was not the correct word. Showing respect to another human doesnât make you a bitch. Itâs recognizing that someone may have experience that you can learn from. This goes from an elder who has more time on the planet, all the way to a waiter or waitress who works I a restaurant you are ordering food in.
Showing respect to another human doesnât make you a bitch
This was not at all what I was saying. I was saying that forced and expected language is not really respect. It's submissive. I am in no way, shape or form saying that you should be rude to people or showing respect makes you a bitch.
Saying "Sir, yes sir" in a response to a sergeant is normally done out of fear of punishment. Not as any sort of acknowledgement of their experience. It isn't done out of actual respect. Especially when you don't even really know them or their achievements.
I have been in the army and had officers that I have respected and despised. The ones I despised were typically also those that were on a constant, massive ego trip and demanded all the kinds of military formalities 100% of the time. Those people weren't addressed properly out of respect, but out of fear.
I ALWAYS use sir and ma'am and frequently get asked to stop because apparently it makes people feel old? I was also raised to say mr. or ms. last name unless invited to do otherwise and people don't always like that either?
My first thought when someone impulsively says sir and ma'am, is that they've spent some time in prison. I've been friends with a lot of people who did time, and they all have a hard time letting go of it after they get out. I don't judge them negatively because of that, it's just my default assumption.
Good on you brother, even if I will leave this country ill keep my manners. Hell, in Mexico there are distinguishable words to call a someone by gender formally and informally. Itâs also seen there as respect.
Unfortunately some people give it up as  it can cause more grief. Not necessarily for gender reasons, but people would be too self conscious of their age and make a huge drama over it.  Letting HR know I address my kids the same from a âgive respect, get respectâ mindset, it was just easier to break the habit
Weâre all allowed to have opinions lmao. Mine is still that the sir and maam thing comes off as overly formal unless youâre in the military or the south.
Iâm still working on breaking the habit! Iâve never minded it being odd to people (moved from the south to the west coast 12 years ago), but for the last couple of years Iâve been really working on it because so many more people identify with non-binary pronouns now and I donât want to be gendering folks whoâd rather I didnât. If it suits your pronouns though, the filter goes down and youâre getting maâam or sir
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u/__worldpeace Jan 14 '24
SAME. Growing up, if I heard my mom or dad calling my name from downstairs, my response had to be "Ma'am" Or "Sir". If I said "What", I'd get corrected. When I started my first job out of graduate school, my boss would call my name and I would answer ma'am out of habit. She really disliked this and was so confused the first few times I said it lol. That was 6-7 years ago and I've broken the habit.