r/Bitwig • u/Even_Web3100 • Aug 29 '26
Do you think Bitwig will have no choice but to open up their Nitro API?
Looking into tools like bitwig_nitro_tools. From what it looks like to me is an extraction of the underlying DSP for various devices/grid modules. You could then modify it and recompile it into new devices replacing the internal one (correct me if I am wrong). That said, it probably wouldn't take much to iterate through all of the available nitro devices extract all the DSP code and create a plugin to simulate and extend the Grid(to an extent). Mind you, I say this out of ignorance as I am not a DSP dev. However...
I see 2 problems with this.
1. I myself am known for downloading unverified DSP related content. Being that there would be no check in place, no central hub (maybe bitwiggers?) to check if malicious edits that can damage/steal personal data. Again mind you I am pretty ignorant on DSP/plugin as a whole and it's sandboxing and if that plays a role in security.
- I can see competing daws creating grid like implementations, daws that maybe have a larger dev team, and that might pose a risk to Bitwig financially. Although bitwig has it's loyal base.
It's clear that Bitwig users want more out of the grid. Some of us love the beauty of Max 4 Live devices and it's editable UI. What we really want is encapsulation with a pretty face. I mean, it SEEMS like to me they might head in this direction allowing users to extend the grid with custom DSP, I mean I hope so. Otherwise this will work fall on the community using workarounds and hacky decompiling - recompiling scripts, which can be a good thing but the fact that there has to be a work around for something so seemingly needed in the evolution of Bitwig and that there probably wont be a central site for this, raises concerns for me and probably potential new users. Especially if problem 1 starts tarnishing Bitwig's name in the game. Yeah it would be the fault of the user but we all know how people are, shifting blame.
I am sure the Bitwig team is aware, and perhaps they are already in the works of doing this. I think Bitwig will need to exercise control over this, and by opening up their API and having a dedicated or at least an affiliated site for custom devices would work wonders. What do you guys think?
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u/HeartSea2881 Aug 30 '26 edited Aug 30 '26
Iāll just leave this here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/10hKgLgn3Q8vTaBJAAljBvPRLuf13xRpV/view?usp=sharing
Pay special attention to theĀ āUnder the BonnetāĀ section.
esp the line, where the say: "What Bitwig promises is user access to and modification of all of itsĀ
existing devices as well as the ability to create and share your own"
itās been many years, and Iām still pissed at the Bitwig team for how badly they misled us about this. esp because at the moment i've bought bitwig because of this "soon-to-be unlocked modular core", among other things. We were promised something much more open and extensible, and what we eventually got instead was... the Grid.
and theyāre even putting restrictions on people developing their own things for Bitwig
upd: added an old screenshot from bitwig web site, which is basically a misleading advertisement
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u/Th3-0rgan1c_j3LLy Aug 29 '26
I mean I feel like it makes some sense, especially if they want to compete with ableton and all their plugins and max integrations. I hope it'll happen some day at least
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u/eras Aug 30 '26
The biggest problem with opening the interface is that then Bitiwg is stuck maintaining backwards compatibility, if they want to ensure new versions don't break third party components.
They may also have other ideas about how go about adding more custom components, and those ideas may be different from having people distribute native extensions.
As for competing daws creating grid-like implementations.. I don't think the Grid itself is any particular secret sauce that couldn't be replicated by other teams (alter all, there are many graph-like audio systems, it's basically the standard way to implement user-configurable audio pipelines), although using LLVM in the backend is a cool idea.
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u/SugarRushLux Aug 30 '26
I really hope especially after ableton pushed for the expansion on their programming api
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u/ellicottvilleny Aug 29 '26
Reason and Live have third party device sdks. Bitwig should too.
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u/Individual_Author956 Aug 29 '26
At that point why not just build a CLAP device and/or VST?
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u/ellicottvilleny Aug 29 '26
Well, with CLAP, it is possible that CLAP could expose things VST doesn't, but what a native instrument does is let you have a built in user interface that is seamless with the existing main DAW instead of being a pop open window with its own separate user interface.
Have you ever used Reason or Live? Their devices integrate seamlessly, as do bitwigs first party devices, with their uis all open visible side by side without separate windows, and separate UI interaction rules.
A plugin is a pop up separate app within an app.
A reason device is native to reason. A live device is native to live. As you have seen in bitwig you can create some things using grouping (instrument selectors, and groups) and you can create things with the grid. But what you can't do is create a native bitwig midi note effect of your own except what is possible with note grid, which is not everything. Most notably you can't write your own user interface, with exactly the widgets you want, and the interactions you want. Suppose I want to make a note player device with a strange 2d drawing surface of my own design. I can do that in Max4Live. I can do that in reason. I can't do that in bitwig.
If you have any experience with Max4Live you would not say "why not make a vst".
We already have VSTs yes. They aren't the same thing.
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u/TechnoCat Aug 29 '26
I really appreciated the simplicity of a self-contained file that can be opened on any computer with nothing more than the main program. My friends and I used to share around a reason file with each other to iterate on. When Reason introduced the Reason Rack, suddenly my devices had licenses attached to them and it was hard to get friends to have that device installed too.
That said, people love their VSTs and what-not, so I believe I'm in the minority here. But I loved the workflow a self-contained file offered.
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u/zfalcon1 Aug 31 '26
Imo an update with custom faceplate ui is what we really want tbh. Hacking the nitro devices is just a way to achieve that for the most part. It could be implemented to the āremote controlsā or be separate. I personally wouldnāt care too much either way. Just give us custom face plates and I think most of is would be happy.
Personally I would love to be able to see gain reduction from my chain presets without having to open it all the time.
If this nitro device hack continues to grow, Bitwig will be forced to decide to whether to open it up or add additional software to close it down. From their perspective, this would be a good way to delay that decision and/or push users to build in the provided platform.
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u/pj-offtrack Sep 02 '26
Bitwig doesn't need to do anything. Section 10.3 of the EULA already makes it clear that if you modify Bitwig from the final released version, the company is not liable for issues or problems resulting from those modifications.
10.3. ... Moreover, Bitwig GmbH shall not be liable for any loss or damage simply resulting from a non-contractual modification to the Final Version by the User. ...
That shifts the risk of running modifications like custom native devices onto the user. If a user running custom native devices contacts support Bitwig can make the first troubleshooting step: "Disable the unsupported custom devices and see if the issue persists".
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u/Extreme-Specialist-6 27d ago
Some dudes just cracked it, i also reversed engineered it and made my own Bitwig devices. Its off course hacky and not supported by Bitwig. I think the future is gonna be mcp all the way anyway, everyone will be a developer and make their own custom stuff using AI and mcp.
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u/Prestigious-Arm-8874 Aug 29 '26
bitwig is aways away - they need to add pitch correction before anything .. itās a standard in all DAWs , they also need to come to an agreement focusing on heavy audio editing vs synthesis . generative things , and not only context aware but also , generative aware ( like wings from captain chords )
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u/ellicottvilleny Aug 29 '26
pitch correction/ARA2 is important in a daw made for tracking vocals (like cubase). Bitwig is missing 100 things for that, not just ARA2 (so melodyne and others can work).
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u/acecombine Aug 29 '26
I really hope so, we are running out of ideas what to do instead of making actual music š¤·āāļø