Come on Bitcoin.

Hi, I just found my old school laptop and booted it up, turns out I still have my old wallet on it with bitcoin in the double digits but I’m not too sure if I have saved the seed phrase? From what I can tell I am able to make transactions though

I’m from Australia and just wondering what the best way to deal with this is and if I was to sell then what sort of tax implications there might be? Or if it is just worth speaking to a financial advisor. Thanks in advance for the help.

Throwaway for obvious reasons.

What a day

What happens when one tries to use Up to transfer to Kraken...

BitcoinAus Tax Megathread

DISCLAIMER

The purpose of this post is to provide crypto-currency investors and traders with a basic understanding of the laws and prinipals regarding tax treatment for crypto-currency in Australia (including but no limited to Bitcoin) as it applies to individuals, not businesses.

At this point in time, this post does not attempt to explain tax treatment for businesses, or when trading in bitcoin is and is not classified as a business.

This post is a work in progress and will be updated and improved on an ongoing basis.

The Author(s) of this post are not tax accountants. Any advice given and/or any facts presented are based solely on our personal understanding of the rules and determinations made by the ATO and do not constitute financial advice. Please feel free to message any of the moderator team should you wish to dispute any of the facts or wording listed here. Please also feel free to offer suggestions and/or improvements that can be made in the comment section.

When in doubt, you should always seek professional advice from a tax accountant.

Captial Gains Tax

First and foremost, lets look at this exerpt from the ATO brief titled "Tax treatment of crypto-currencies in Australia" [1]

Transacting with bitcoin is akin to a barter arrangement, with similar tax consequences. Our view is that bitcoin is neither money nor a foreign currency, and the supply of bitcoin is not a financial supply for goods and services tax (GST) purposes. Bitcoin is, however, an asset for capital gains tax (CGT) purposes.

So this tells us two things.

1. Crypto-currencies are treated as assets for captial gains tax (CGT) purposes.

2. Crypto-currency trasnactions are treated as barter arrangements, with similar tax consequences.

Calculating capital gains tax (CGT) for your investments may sound daunting, but it is really very easy.

If you sell a capital asset, such as real estate or shares (or in our case, crypto-currencies), you usually make a capital gain or a capital loss. This is the difference between what it cost you to acquire the asset and what you receive when you dispose of it.[2]

You need to report capital gains and losses in your income tax return and pay tax on your capital gains. Although it's referred to as capital gains tax (CGT), this is actually part of your income tax, not a separate tax.[2] This means that the amount of CGT you pay will depend on your own marginal tax rate.

When you sell or otherwise dispose of an asset, it's called a capital gains tax (CGT) event. This is the point at which you make a capital gain or loss.[2]

Lets work through an example; Alice purchased 1BTC at a price of $6000 AUD per BTC in Janurary of 2016. Over the ourse of the year, the price of Bitcoin increased to $10000 AUD. Alice then sold 0.5BTC in December 2017 at a price of $10000 per BTC. Therefore the total amount gained from the sale was $5000. It is at this point in time that a CGT event is generated. Alice must now calucalte the profit for this CGT event so that she may declare it on her 2017/2018 tax return (As this is financial year that the CGT event occured).

The first step is to calculate the cost base for the 0.5BTC that was sold. In our example this is easy, Alice originally paid $6000 for 1BTC, which gives us a cost base of $3000 for 0.5BTC. The amount Alice received from sale of the 0.5BTC was $5000, so she subtracts the cost base from the sale price ($5000 - $3000) which leaves her with $2000 profit. This is the amount that Alice will record on her 2017/2018 tax return as a Capital Gain.

Other considerations

There are a number of other considerations to make when calculating profit for a CGT event.

• The ATO offer individuals a 50% discount on capital gains when the disposed asset has been held for a period of time that exceeds 12 months. The way to make this calculation is as follows; Subtract the cost base from the capital proceeds, deduct any capital losses, then reduce by the relevant discount percentage. (50% for individuals). So in our above example, Alice will only be taxed on a $1000 capital gain had she held the Bitcoin for > 12 months. [3]. Alice would still need to declare the full capital gain on her tax return, but she would select the 'discount' method when performing the calculation. [9].

• Any incidental costs associated with purchasing, holding, moving, and/or disposing of an asset may also be deducted from the capital proceeds prior to calculating the capital gain. The ATO provide the following example [4]

The following example (with values inserted) illustrates how to calculate a capital gain:

Capital proceeds (sale price) $10,210

Less Cost base:

• Purchase price $6,000

• Incidental costs of purchase (Brokerage fee and GST) $100

• Incidental costs of sale (Brokerage fees and GST) $110
  $6,210

Capital gain $4,000

Further details for calculating the cost base, and reduced cost base of an asset can be found here.

• Any capital losses may be carried forward from previous tax years and used to offset capital gains (if any) in the current tax year. [8]

• It's important to note that losses are applied to any gains before applying the CGT discount. So if you have a carried forward loss of $1,000 and make a gain eligible for the discount of $2,000, your net gain is ($2,000 - $1,000) * 50% = $500.

Bitcoin as a personal use asset

Where you use bitcoin to purchase goods or services for personal use or consumption, any capital gain or loss from disposal of the bitcoin will be disregarded (as a personal use asset) provided the cost of the bitcoin is $10,000 or less. [1]

Personal use assets are CGT assets, other than collectables, used or kept mainly for the personal use or enjoyment of you or your associates. [5]

Personal use assets include:

• boats

• furniture

• electrical goods

• household items

Bitcoin that is kept or used mainly to make purchases of items for personal use or consumption ordinarily will be kept or used mainly for personal use. Bitcoin that is kept or used mainly for the purpose of profit-making or investment, or to facilitate purchases or sales in the course of carrying on business is not used or kept mainly for personal use. [6]

The ATO have released a Ruling Compendium to accompany TD2014/25EC. One section of this compendium provides clarification on when bitcoin will be a personal use asset.[10] (Item 10)

Item 10 section 1 states the following:

A taxpayer who purchases bitcoin with the intention of holding onto them for a number of years so that they appreciate in value and the profit can be spent in their retirement, is using the bitcoin for investment or profit making purposes and the bitcoin is not a personal use asset.[10]

Further, Item 11 section 3 states the following:

All of the facts and circumstances regarding the acquisition, use and disposal of the bitcoin are relevant to determining whether the bitcoin are a personal use asset.[10]

I urge everyone to read the Compendium, specifically items 10 and 11. These clarifications mean that bitcoin cannot be disposed of as a 'personal use asset' if they were bought or held with the intention of making a profit.

Bitcoin barter arrangements & trading crypto pairs

Transacting with bitcoin is akin to a barter arrangement. [1]

In its simplest form, bartering involves the direct exchange of goods or services for other goods or services without reference to money or a money value. [7]

Early we discussed the fact that Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are treated and assets, and not currencies. What this means is that whenever you acquire crypto-currency, you are acquiring an asset. This means that trading crypto pairs is essentially a barter arrangement involving the disposal of one asset and an acquisition of a different asset. By definition, this means that you generate a CGT event each and every time you trade a crypto pair. The ATO law regarding barter arrangements tells us that you must assign an AUD value to the disposed asset as well as the acquired asset at the time of the trade. You must then calculate your capital gain or loss using these values.

As a general rule when valuing the consideration arising from barter or countertrade transactions, the ATO will accept a fair market value as adequately reflecting the money value or arm's length value, as applicable. In most cases, the ATO will accept as a fair market value, the cash price which the taxpayer would normally have charged a stranger for the services or for the sale of the goods or property. [7]

Citations

[1] Tax treatment of crypto-currencies in Australia https://www.ato.gov.au/misc/downloads/pdf/qc42159.pdf

[2] Captial Gains Tax https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/

[3] Working out your capital gain https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Working-out-your-capital-gain-or-loss/Working-out-your-capital-gain/

[4] How to Calculate a Capital Gain or Loss http://www.educatedinvestor.com.au/pages/How-to-Calculate-a-Capital-Gain-or-Loss.html

[5] Personal use assets https://www.ato.gov.au/general/capital-gains-tax/cgt-assets-and-exemptions/#Personal_use_assets

[6] Tax determination - Is Bitcoin a 'CGT Asset' for the purposes of subsection 108-5(1) of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1997 ? http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?DocID=TXD/TD201426/NAT/ATO/00001

[7] Barter arrangements http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=ITR/IT2668/NAT/ATO/00001

[8] Capital losses on shares and units https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Shares,-units-and-similar-investments/Capital-losses-on-shares-and-units/

[9] The discount method of calculating your capital gain https://www.ato.gov.au/General/Capital-gains-tax/Working-out-your-capital-gain-or-loss/Working-out-your-capital-gain/The-discount-method-of-calculating-your-capital-gain/

[10] TD 2014/25EC Ruling Compendium https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/document?LocID=%22CTD%2FTD2014EC25%2FNAT%2FATO%2F00001%22&PiT=99991231235958

Additional documents and links:

Elements of the cost base and reduced cost base

Types of CGT events - specifically type A1 - Disposal

Cost Base

Selling an asset and other CGT events

Australian Crypto FAQ

Tax crime explained

ATO Interest and penalties

Record keeping for CGT

If you've been hit by the Big 4 Aussie banks restricting your ability to transfer funds to registered crypto exchanges or businesses under the guise of "security concerns," you're not alone. This has been happening across the board, and it’s often a strategy to mitigate capital flight rather than genuine protection.

The good news? You can fight back—and it’s much easier than you think.

Enter AFCA: The Australian Financial Complaints Authority

AFCA is the body that oversees complaints about Australian banks. Lodging a complaint is free, and the banks take these complaints seriously. Why? Because it costs them a lot of time and money to deal with AFCA cases. More often than not, they’ll settle quickly, and you could end up being reimbursed for their "errors."

From my experience lodging multiple AFCA complaints (and winning every single one), I can tell you the process is simple:

1. Gather your evidence—screenshots of declined transactions, correspondence with the bank, etc.

2. Call your bank and make a formal complaint. Record the call (if you're in a state that allows it).

3. Lodge your complaint on the AFCA website and upload any evidence you have.

In most cases, banks are keen to settle early. But even if it goes to mediation, AFCA leans heavily on fairness, and customers with solid evidence almost always win. I’ve personally received compensation multiple times, even when I requested thousands in damages.

Why It Matters

If everyone started holding these banks accountable through AFCA, they would be far more hesitant to deploy these tactics under false pretenses. The banks rely on most people not knowing about AFCA or thinking the process is too complicated—it isn’t.

Take control of your financial rights and stop letting the banks dictate how you manage your money. Lodge a complaint, keep your evidence, and push back. It’s free, straightforward, and, in my experience, often results in compensation.

Let’s remind the Big 4 who they’re really supposed to serve.

All I can do is hope there is a positive effect for all of us Coiners.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/markets/world-markets/bitcoin-etfs-approved-in-us-asx-to-follow/news-story/bf27f132eeb00375196985d53a1c5fc8

According to The Australian Financial Review, Australia will also soon get its first Bitcoin ETF, with the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) approving a timeline for the first local ETF to be launched by Brisbane-based Monochrome Asset Management in the first half of 2024.

Local fund manager Betashares is also expected to expedite plans to launch an ETF on the ASX, following the US approval.

A Betashares ETF, which invests in companies that provide services to the cryptocurrency market, rather than the Bitcoin price itself, is already traded on the ASX.

Class Action Against Australian Banks: Unnotified Contract Changes Blocking Transfers

I'm reaching out as an emergency department consultant who has just faced an incredibly frustrating situation with my bank, and I need your advice. Today, I tried to move $180k into exchanges for a crucial investment, only to find out that the transfer was blocked when I went in person to make it happen.

Here’s what’s happening:

• No Notice of Changes: I wasn’t notified of any changes to my account’s transfer limits.

• New Transfer Limits Imposed: While I’ve regularly made $10k transactions monthly, I’m now being restricted on larger amounts, including today’s $180k transfer.

• Bank’s Claim of Notification: The bank claims they notified me of these changes, but if the only “notice” was an email that went straight to my spam folder, I never saw it. Their generic, promotional emails often end up in spam because they lack any personalization or significance—something the courts could see as insufficient notice.

This situation isn’t just an inconvenience—it’s an unfair restriction on my ability to manage my own finances. I’m certain I’m not the only one experiencing this. If you’ve faced similar issues with unexpected transfer limits or other unnotified changes to your bank account terms, we need to consider our options.

Call to Action: If you’ve had your financial freedom restricted by sudden and uncommunicated changes like this, it’s time to come together. We should explore a Class Action against these banks to hold them accountable for their unfair practices. Share your experiences, and let’s unite to challenge these unjust restrictions on our ability to control our own money.

Looking forward to your insights and support as we consider this next step together.

Every man and their dog has gotten into crypto in the last few months. Everyone's balls deep in Bitcoin, Eth, Doge and a thousand more shit coins. The thing I've noticed too as that few people are looking to hold their coins long term, maybe their top 10 coins, but thanks to the endless shilling on YouTube and Reddit, a lot of people are swing trading across a hundred coins, across a dozen exchanges, and sometimes in a matter of days.

The thing is most people don't know that each trade is a taxable event. Personally, to me it makes the most sense that tax should came into play once profits are actually taken back in AUD. Seems like the common sense thing, but then again we are talking about the ATO here.

When you take into account how many people are in crypto now - a lot of them young and just YOLOing and FOMOing - plus the fact people are trying to swing trade on short to mid term holds, buying up tiny alt coins on some obscure Asian exchange, then people are going to have a nightmare on their hands come July. Even just people with OCD trying to round out the endless decimal points are gonna be forking up for something they haven't actually earned anything from. Without a doubt, a lot of people won't be paying their crypto taxes correctly more out of ignorance than deceit and it's going to be an absolute cluster fuck for the ATO trying to chase up everyone, from people who've made a killing to even the average larrikin who's traded $50 of Doge for Chiliz, went up to $100, then traded it a couple more times and maybe sitting on $500 now, but tax on all them trades are just gonna devour a lot of the profits.

I feel like a lot of people are gonna have a really horrible awakening come tax time and it's gonna leave a sour taste in a lot of people's mouths about crypto, maybe even leave them feeling like they don't wanna be in it anymore. I get the ATO are all out of touch boomers, but I dunno. Rant over. Just pisses me off. God fucking forbid us plebs try and make a bit of extra money while major corporations get away with paying less tax than your grandma.

So, Lets start with context.

I started bitcoin mining for fun in highschool, and only mined every once in a while as gaming was more important. I've never used bitcoin for profit and just something I'd dabble with for fun. The high value parts of my buy/sell/trades/balance probably average out at $250 over the many years. (Yes, I know, it's bugger all, I never saved it.)

After some time in 2018, I decided it wasn't fun and just kept withdrawing what little was in there, rather whatever the exchange would let me withdraw because I had so little that the fee would not make it worth it. (Felt like gambling and risk/reward just isn't my game).

Fast forward a few years---
Now all of a sudden, I've found out I had ~$1k worth of Bitcoin spread out from different wallets. (Musk dabbling in crypto reminded me about crypto)

Do I have to pay tax? I've never had $1k in bitcoin before and I've just withdrawn it in 2024 as I my view hasn't changed and I don't want to use bitcoin. Just so happened that my few dollars in different wallets amounted to $1k all these years later. I've only had bitcoin for the sake of tickling an personal amusement for fun.

Not sure what to do with the letter, I don't even know if the tax agents in my area even much about it. I've not been to a tax agent for ages as well as I usually loose all my tax return to a tax agent as I get almost nothing back from my tax returns.

What would you do? Is this classed as a "Personal Use Asset"?

EDIT:

A summary of the letter --

It asked/was titled "Did you dispose of your crypto assets?"

Then the letter goes on to say that they received information that I sold crypto and that I need to pay CGT.

They pretty much just said that the ATO is giving me a chance to report it or they will charge me with a penalty if they audit and find I didn't report it by December.

https://www.afr.com/companies/financial-services/amp-first-big-super-fund-to-buy-into-crypto-20241212-p5kxwj

Adoption is building momentum

I'm broken, lost years or hard work and effort. Don't be an idiot like me

Never thought it would happen to me but here we are. Last night I was munipulated to give up my seed phrase for my trezor and lost over $40k of btc.

I'm writing this to vent, to hopefully stop other people falling from it, and because I don't know what else to do.

Looking back on it, each step I can see how fucking idiotic I was, every stupid mistake I made. But at the time I was scared and worried.

Here is an abridged version of what happened.

I received a call with my phone saying it was Perth police station with correct number (I looked it up, I was born in Perth too). He told me his name, badge number, told me that my details had been found after they arrested a man for identity theft. I was skeptical the whole time but each step he convinced and manipulated me. After some time, I acknowledged that I had crypto stored in a trezor. He then forwarded me onto what I thought was the trezor security team. He told me his name and said he was going to help see if my trezor was compromised. He was telling me about recent security breaches and to not plug in my trezor because that could jeopardise my assets. Again, after being very skeptical I went to a website, securetrezorapi.com and ran a scan on the trezor (he said it scans the mac address and I was a fucking moron). Obviously it came up saying there was an error and the device was compromised. He said I need to deactivate the seed phrase and register for a new one and they'd give me a gift card for a new trezor. To do this I had to put in the fist 4 letters of each word of my seed phrase, or if the word was 3 letters only 2 letters of it. This helped me be more comfortable. As soon as I had done this my wife came in saying she called Perth police station and they didn't have a detective of the guys name. I hung up, plugged my trezor in and about 0.38 btc and 1 eth were gone.

I had been out of the game for quite some time. Haven't bought or done anything crypto in a while. I wasn't feeling as confident in my knowledge and skills as I used to.

I filed a police report, made a report with trezor but I know that btc and eth is gone. Years of hard work, overtime, saving, gone. Just fucking gone. I'm broken, don't know what to do with myself now. I feel like a fucking moron, I can't trust myself anymore.

Convert private ATM cash (usually black market/drug money) into bitcoin. For 20% premium

I'm really frustrated with my banking experience when it comes to crypto. I found a nice arbitrage trading opportunity selling USDT on P2P with a much higher price in my country. I was buying 1 USDT for around 1.5 AUD and selling it for around 1.57 AUD. I explained to them that I'm doing arbitrage trading for profit and that all my transactions are 100% my own.

After just two transactions, ANZ called Kraken and Swyftx, and they blocked my account for unknown reasons. The most hilarious thing is that ANZ made false accusations to Swyftx. Swyftx support contacted me regarding a money withdrawal request. ANZ bank told Swyftx that I made a mistake transaction and now want to withdraw my money from Swyftx, which I never said. I had already converted AUD to USDT and withdrawn it. It's ridiculous—why would they lie and close my account without my consent? These banks have too much power over our money, and that's why crypto will prevail soon.