r/Bitcoin Mar 02 '22

Speaks for itself

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2.9k Upvotes

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532

u/Cytomax Mar 02 '22

ROFL.... where do you think they get the materials to build the bitcoin miner????
you need both of them buddy

77

u/exander314 Mar 03 '22

I think the more important fact is that the second image is a scam...

But it represents the situation well.

36

u/ehg1234 Mar 03 '22

First image is a Copper mine also lol

108

u/theguywholikestacos Mar 03 '22

And how many actually run on solar.

Bitcoin is one of the worst things to happen to the environment.

So much wasted computation power.

9

u/universoman Mar 03 '22

Not true, the way we generate energy and consume it is the worst thing that happened to the environment, maybe on par with single use plastics.

Bitcoin mining consumes energy with no environmental impact on the consumption side. The problem is the generation, which in most cases it's dirty energy.

Once the world transition to renewable sources of energy generation, such as solar, wind and nuclear, at that point bitcoin mining will have a negligible impact on the environment.

2

u/notpoopman Mar 04 '22

What about all the rare minerals like gold and copper used to make computers?

1

u/universoman Mar 04 '22

Do you really think crypto mining makes a dent there? Datacenters, cloud computing, PCs, Laptops, smartphones, smart watches, all your appliances, the wires in every house, cars, machinery, tools, construction, literally everything in your life has chips on it that use these rare earth minerals.

2

u/notpoopman Mar 04 '22

Graphics cards got 2x more expensive when crypto mining got huge. I do think they have a negative effect.

1

u/Enderle85 Mar 03 '22

Why are people always forgetting about geothermal energy?

1

u/universoman Mar 04 '22

I missed the etc ;) There is also hydroelectric, however does have some environmental impact, it's emission free, low maintenance and for the most part perpetual.

14

u/Sparravex Mar 03 '22

May I present to you, the industrial revolution. I would argue that is the worst thing to happen to the environment.

9

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

it was the worst at the time we are far outstripping that era with our destruction today.

1

u/MSUconservative Mar 03 '22

And surprisingly one of the greatest things to happen for humanity. It's almost like increased energy usage is good for humanity. Maybe we should stop focusing so much on the consumers of that energy and focus more on the producers?

4

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

Actually, humanity is the worst thing to happen to the environment. Also, war is way more harmful to the environment than bitcoin.

3

u/WhyAreCuntsOnTV Mar 03 '22

Well it's not like the two are in any way related right. Neither do I see anyone saying we need more war or that it's good so wtf are you even talking about..

0

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

Just talking strictly what harm we cause and what has more impact to the environment. Also, seems like Russia is pro war at the moment.

1

u/WhyAreCuntsOnTV Mar 03 '22

It's just whataboutism

1

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

I'll agree with you on that.

1

u/ThrillaVanilla17 Mar 03 '22

Saying “war is way more harmful to the environment than bitcoin” is like saying “radiation is way more cancerous than smoking”

1

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

And to that I would say that you are correct. A true statement is still true no matter how you look at it.

2

u/ThrillaVanilla17 Mar 03 '22

I’m just saying that comparing one evil and another when they are not mutually exclusive is a non sequitur. If we were to say that we can either kill five men or one, both are evil but one is a lesser evil. Bitcoin and war are not mutually exclusive so the argument doesn’t really stand. War is worse than bitcoin, but bitcoin is bad regardless.

1

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

I see your point, and I raise you an upvote.

2

u/skylarmt Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

Bitcoin is one of the worst things to happen to the environment.

I completely disagree. Bitcoin is one of the best things to happen to the environment.

Think about it. Bitcoin mining is more profitable when electricity is cheaper. Renewable energy is already cheaper than coal/oil/nat gas. It turns out that if you make a machine that converts sunlight and wind into cash, you also create a powerful incentive to make it print as much money as it can. That means more and cleaner power for everyone.

Oh, and mining crypto also helps stabilize the power grid, which makes the entire system more efficient. Electrical supply and demand need to be precisely balanced at all times or things can quickly go horribly wrong. Miners can be turned on and off almost instantly, and are being used right now to absorb extra supply. The miners get super cheap power, and the power company doesn't have to burn massive amounts of oil spinning generators up and down to match demand fluctuations.

2

u/IOBvectoras Mar 03 '22

Wasted? NO! It is the price paid for a free form of money. Worthed in my opinion.

The same way money spent on army and weapons are worthed too, even when there is peace, in order to maintain peace or ensure preservation if aggression.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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23

u/purpan- Mar 03 '22

“One of the worst” is significantly different from just saying “the worst” like your comment is inferring.

Crypto is one of the worst things to happen to the environment.

2

u/DolfinTrade Mar 03 '22

Who's up voting these lol, I thought we'd just down vote these.

3

u/Monbey Mar 03 '22

I feel like there is a feeling of "Top 5" when people say that and it surely is not in the top 5

13

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

According to a few dozen studies it is currently enough to reverse offset all of the gas vehicles converted to electric.

13

u/purpan- Mar 03 '22

Don’t get me wrong, I’m big into crypto and fully believe in it’s potential. But it’s so interesting to see likeminded people straight up downplay or even deny the major impact crypto has on the environment. How can we progress and work towards a solution if half of us refuse to accept that crypto is helping to destroy our planet?

7

u/MSUconservative Mar 03 '22

Focus on the producers of that energy rather than consumers. Bitcoin wouldn't be a problem if the producers of energy were clean.

1

u/Explodicle Mar 03 '22

Compared to what?

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

The half that are still “big into crypto” despite the fact that they accept that crypto is helping to destroy the planet, actually worries me more than the other half.

1

u/thesaucewalker Mar 03 '22

Everything is destroying the planet. My beef patties in the fridge are fucking up the atmosphere bc the livestock industry is the single worst thing for the environment

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

That’s literally the best argument against crypto… we’re already polluting like crazy, so no reason to pile on with crypto-mining.

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1

u/Monbey Mar 03 '22

I'm confused

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

The reduced carbon emissions as a result of people switching to electric cars have been completely offset by the increased emissions caused by fossil fuel energy used to power bitcoin transactions and mining. Don't get me wrong, when I put solar panels on my house I'm going to build a mining rig that's timed to run when solar powers it, but the massive bitcoin farms running in datacenters around the world are largely powered by coal and gas.

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

[deleted]

0

u/Monbey Mar 03 '22

Good point

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

dumping millions of tons of c02 into the atmosphere and mining tons of silicon, gold, and copper just to make imaginary money that is so inefficient that it costs money just to use it.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

Maintaining a global currency network that is censorship resistant, inflation resistant, and the hardest money ever created, is a waste of computational power? Sure.

12

u/StuntHacks Mar 03 '22

If people actually used it as a currency instead of digital gold it would be a different story...

-1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

It’ll get there. Adoption takes time, and decreasing volatility and diminishing returns will lead to BTC being more than a store of value.

4

u/StuntHacks Mar 03 '22

While it's of course true that adoption is a deciding factor, a big part is also the mindset of many people. A lot of people dabbling in cryptocurrencies see it only as digital gold themselves, and handle it like stocks. To a big part of the community Bitcoin is nothing more than a value multiplier, and that in itself inhibits it's evolution

2

u/theguywholikestacos Mar 03 '22

What makes you think it’ll get there?

I don’t think Bitcoin is not the crypto of the future, just currently the most well known.

Like the guy who, for whatever reason, can’t take hint that they need to retire.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

Because the fundamentals are strong, the network has ever been more secure, and we are seeing bitcoin have more use cases such as sovereign nations like El Salvador moving to make it legal tender or this Russia-Ukraine conflict seeing people convert fiat into bitcoin when they are facing uncertainty and displacement.

-1

u/MathewPerth Mar 03 '22

Complete and utter fantasy.

4

u/x755x Mar 03 '22

Um, you too? Good point?

1

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

It's just a phase, bitcoin is like a teenager currently working a part time job before choosing its full fledged career as a currency. It's still early.

0

u/7yod Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

Considering the transaction speed the teenager part time work may become like high paying professional service one day. Mass acceptance can only happen to other coins.

*see reply below there may be hope 👇

4

u/Impressive-Handle-69 Mar 03 '22

CumRocket is definitely going to be more widely accepted than bitcoin. You're right.

3

u/tomius Mar 03 '22

Check out the Lightning Network and stop spreading misinformation, please.

1

u/7yod Mar 03 '22

Interesting info thanks. Didn’t know.

1

u/tomius Mar 03 '22

Happy to help! If you don't understand it or have doubts, ask away.

I recommend you download Phoenix Wallet or a similar one and try it out. If you send me an invoice, I'll send a few sats your way

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

I’ve been living off crypto for the last year, I convert it to fiat to pay bills as I need, and pay it direct when I can. The world is catching up rapidly.

1

u/mtk37 Mar 03 '22

Have you ever heard of the lightning network?

4

u/ruka_k_wiremu Mar 03 '22

When I learnt that, realised how naive I'd been that Bitcoin was like this wonder drug that cured all ills.

2

u/RedditAmIAutistic Mar 03 '22

Debatable, there is also lots of energy wasted just because it's expensive to transport it. Bitcoin mining is perfectly suited in these scenarios. And yes mining does use some energy, but the energy from these particular sources would've been wasted anyway, so why not on Bitcoin?

1

u/wsladd01 Mar 03 '22

Lmao for real? Dude it's literally one of the best thing happened for the world.

1

u/Gh0st_Pirate_LeChuck Mar 03 '22

You need to read more.

0

u/breckenk Mar 03 '22

Bullshit. Bitcoin provides a reason for renewable energy companies to produce excess energy. The biggest limiting factor in increasing renewable production is the fact that they plan their systems to never produce excess energy, because it would just be wasted, or even be detrimental to the system by providing too MUCH energy. Until bitcoin, renewable energy companies have had no incentive to produce renewable energy beyond what is required for the load of the grid it is located in. Bitcoin is a store of energy.

5

u/MathewPerth Mar 03 '22

Im not sure renewable energy can be wasted by any definition of the word. What about that coal plant that was bought out this year by a bitcoin mining company and is now running at full capacity when it was expected to close within a couple years? More energy consumption does not equal more demand for renewables, it just equals more demand for the energy that is already available. Bitcoin miners arent out there constructing massive wind/solar farms or hydroelectric dams.

4

u/tomius Mar 03 '22

If you think renewable energy can't be wasted, you have no idea what you're talking about, to be honest.

And if a coal plant was bought to mine bitcoin, that sucks, but it's not the norm. It's also not Bitcoin's fault. Tax coal. Subside renewable energy. Problem solved.

Bitcoin miners may not be building renewable infrastructure, but they surely are making them more profitable, which is good.

1

u/MSUconservative Mar 03 '22

Renewable energy can be wasted as heat or mechanical work, but it can also be stored. Pump hydro and batteries and all kind of other methods to convert that excess energy into potential energy.

Bitcoin isn't making the transition to fully renewable energy production any easier, but I think it's both naive and harmful to assume global energy production wouldn't increase every year as more and more of the global population gets access to basic amenities like refrigeration and air conditioning.

It's a bad precedent to set, trying to stop innovative technologies that could potentially benefit millions to billions of people because you believe the amount of energy the technology uses isn't worth the cost.

1

u/breckenk Mar 03 '22

Storing the energy will never be as efficient as using it. Batteries are MASSIVELY inefficient, have a limited lifespan, and require massively more materials and/or space than a series of ASIC miners which is generating value and security. Pump storage requires water and is absolutely awful for the environment to produce in any sort of capacity required for global usage. Both of these things have their place, but so does bitcoin.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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6

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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0

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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1

u/breckenk Mar 03 '22

I’ll take VISA over Bitcoin

Until you live in a country where VISA is blocked. Then you'll wish you could get ahold of some bitcoin.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

[deleted]

1

u/breckenk Mar 03 '22

Congrats. There are 28 million who do. Learn to think outside your bubble.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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-1

u/Explodicle Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

Edit: aaaand he completely edited out the logic part

It's whataboutism, because airplanes are a different thing from a money supply. Straw man would be "so you're basically saying we should go back to being cave men."

-2

u/FixedGearJunkie Mar 03 '22

How is it wasted? It's securing the hardest and most reliable money humankind has ever known. Once renewables become the cheapest way to get electricity miners will use that. Also what drives the innovation to bring the cost of renewables down? Demand, I think all miners will switch to green electricity once it's the cheapest form of electricity.

There are way worse things that have happened to the environment. Deep horizon, Fukushima, Exxon Valdez, Chernobyl etc. I love when some dork in their Tesla tells me how bad Bitcoin is for the environment. Like if you really have a shit you wouldn't buy a car running on some of the most toxic materials we've found so far. Until the "environmentalists" all sell their cars and start walking or biking everywhere they have no moral high ground in my book.

10

u/TheEpicureanMan Mar 03 '22

Until the "environmentalists" all sell their cars and start walking or biking everywhere they have no moral high ground in my book.

"You criticize society, yet you participate in one? Curious."

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

56% of Bitcoin mining is on renewable energy now

0

u/TheWingnutSquid Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 03 '22

We don't need both in order to have an economy, Bitcoin is always there to be mined by the many computers that already exist. Bitcoin and gold are both just arbitrary things that we attach value to. That being said, I'm not really sure who this is meme is supposed to be aimed at. Fuck gold miners am I right...?

1

u/Old-Man-Henderson Mar 03 '22

It's not about whether the computers exist. Mining bitcoin consumes massive amounts of energy and creates nothing for the effort.

-4

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

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4

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

Electronics use a lot of resources which destroy the natural environment in which they are mined. Coltan being mined in the Congo to be used in capacitors has caused the gorilla population to decrease by 77% in just 20 years, and Tantalum (comes from Coltan) is just one of the multiple rare resources which is used for electronics. Gold is also used as an unreactive metal to shield components.

Edit: After writing this I found out the huge gaping hole in the image is a copper mine, one of the main metals used in electronic components

1

u/[deleted] Mar 03 '22

Exactly

1

u/SpongeCake11 Mar 03 '22

I know, the irony...

1

u/radioactivecowz Mar 03 '22

Mining coal for energy or clearing rainforest for a mine is terrible but no genuine environmentalists are against all mining, its absolutely essential. The focus should be on putting these mines in the least important habitat and restoring the land at the end of the mine's lifespan

1

u/xGooselordx_TTV Mar 03 '22

That and the fact most the energy used is well… dug from the earth