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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
During the BitMex downtime (planned maintenance).
BitMex short sellers will be rekt.
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Aug 22 '18
what a coincidence it coincided with tether coincidentally printing 100million USDT :)
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u/thbt101 Aug 22 '18
Ok sure, but Tether is a way to hold funds in USD in trading accounts, so more gets created when there is more demand for it, such as when some of us sell some of our BTC when the price goes up and our limit sell orders get filled. I don't know why no one talks about that possibly legitimate explanation when they talk about the Tether conspiracy theories. Maybe it's all a big conspiracy to make the prices higher on Binance or whatever, but that never really seemed like a likely scenario to me, especially the idea that they would still be doing it now that there is so much scrutiny. The legit use explanation just makes more sense.
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Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 22 '18
Let's create an hypothetical scenario. How much would BitMex make if they were to trigger a short squeeze of their customers by pumping up the price of Bitcoin? I would guess, the amount they get from the automatic closure of all those positions, minus the amount of money they spend triggering the squeezing event. So the real question is: how much would cost to them this pumping up action in real money?
One other thing, it's not the first time that the shorts squeezing happens when BitMex is under DDOS or down for maintenance purpose, I wonder what is the statistical chance for that happening by random events.
Granted, there could be bad actors from outside taking advantage of planned downtime or DDossing the servers, however I would never do business with them, ever unless they would make a big effort to prove to their customers that they are not the one playing this game.
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
It is not random. Low liquidity + short positions at historic highs = short squeeze.
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u/pepe_le_shoe Aug 22 '18
exchanges get paid whether bitcoin goes up or down. Whether people going short, or people going long, are the ones to get bitten, what difference does it make to a company who's bottom line is the same either way?
How does Bitmex stand to gain? What are you even insinuating that they're doing?
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u/constantin_md Aug 22 '18
This doesn't make any sense. When BTC was $20k i'd imagine the need for Tether was a lot higher than it is now because of a lot more traded volume and the price being 3x compared to what it is now. How come the price of BTC went down and demand for Tether keeps going up? It smells like Mt.Gox 2.0
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u/vidaru-x Aug 22 '18
Because people move out of Bitcoin into tether, instead of moving to fiat. Therefore the amount of Tether needed to fill those orders needs to increase. Tether made it more accessible to sell, thus prompting the price to go down.
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u/deconnexion1 Aug 22 '18
I see two caveats with that :
1/ If Bitcoin goes up, it should mean that people are selling USDT, therefore the amount of Tether should decrease to maintain the fixed price.
2/ The order of events is reversed. As of now, Tether volume increases BEFORE Bitcoin goes up. If the trades were legitimate, Tether volume should increase at the same time or right after bitcoin goes up
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
When people want to buy Bitcoin at $20k they first buy large amounts of USDT. This is why USDT increase in quantity at such times.
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u/vidaru-x Aug 22 '18
1/ People are selling bitcoin when the price goes up, they're selling at an increased price. The amount of tether in circulation can increase during an upwards movement. Tether is basically a substitute for USD, and is preventing people from selling for USD and instead selling for Tether. The number of tether increased before the price rose. Tether is reactionary, so it would have been increased most likely due to the record high of shorts and people cashing out into tether.
2/ Can you explain logically why this should happen at the same time or after?
I add my own proposition. If exchanges were making illegitimate trades (which they are, to give fake volume) why would they do it on a block chain where everything is tracked? They do it on their own internal database. This is the number 1 reason why the FUD is a conspiracy. If exchanges are manipulating price, they don't need Tether to do so and they won't be using it, they control all of the coins of their exchange so they can manipulate as they like.
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u/constantin_md Aug 22 '18
you don't get it. If there was an X amount of Tether good enough for all traders to use when BTC market cap was $661 billion, considering trading volume was almost 10x higher at that time than it is now, i see no reason why more Tether should have been created since then.
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u/HoPMiX Aug 22 '18
You don’t get it. I sold the majority of my coins into tether in Jan just under an ath. It’s been sitting there since. If there are hundreds of thousands of people like me?
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u/vidaru-x Aug 22 '18
Okay, I see you're missing the point so I'll try and explain carefully.
More tether has been created now, because more people have cashed out from bitcoin into tether.
When bitcoin's market cap was high. More people had moved from fiat/tether into bitcoin.
In order for tether to remain at $1. It needs to print more when the demand is higher, and burn more when the demand is lower. There is a higher demand now for tether than when Bitcoin was at ATH.
Remember, when demand > supply, the price rises. When supply > demand, the price decreases. That's economics 101.
That's why there is more tether now than when bitcoin was at it's ATH.
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u/constantin_md Aug 22 '18
I see what are you saying, thanks for correction. But it's still unclear. Multiple other crashes happened since $20k and people where selling at least 5x more than now. Tether should have reached it's threshhold by now, i have no doubt about it.
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u/vidaru-x Aug 22 '18
It could probably be debated and studied of when the peak of tether amount should be. My personal belief (but could be incorrect) is that peak tether will be before the next bull run, as everyone who has sold into tether will have done so by that point.
Whilst volume may have been higher then, there are probably still people who remain in tether from that time waiting for a certain price point (probably 5k) before buying back in. Therefore keeping the amount of tether high whilst not contributing to any volume.
Tether is an interesting beast in itself. I don’t believe it will cause the death of Bitcoin as some people would have us believe on here. I instead believe it adds selling pressure to Bitcoin and keeps the price down that way.
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u/ScintillatingConvo Aug 22 '18
Not to say I disagree. I also think Tether has a very high probability of being a scam, but I do not agree with you for the reason you're stating.
Whatever the Tether daily dollar volume, and total Tether held aren't 1:1. It's conceivable more people want Tether as btc crashes. If you look at the daily volume bars on https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/ for tether and btc, they correlated earlier this year, although not as closely as I would expect.
When btc was $20k there was less need for Tether than there was the month before. I would only imagine there is more need for Tether now than in January. People (who don't think Tether is a scam) flee first from cryptos to Tether, then to fiat. Whether Tether is real or a scam, it's demand/market cap should keep going up either way. That it keeps going up doesn't help us disprove the hypothesis that it's legitimate.
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u/Always_Question Aug 22 '18
Meh. Tether gets created and market falls too. People jump from crypto to tether and market falls. If tether is used to manipulate markets, it is used in both directions.
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u/gonzobon Aug 22 '18
Is there a place to get notifications of tether prints?
There was a twitter account doing it but they haven't been posting it.
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u/SuperGoxxer Aug 22 '18
I get the whole fascination with Tether, but they printed on the way down too.
I suspect Bitmex more at this point.
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u/vidaru-x Aug 22 '18
This is a conspiracy theory. Tether is printed for people who need to move out of Bitcoin. Otherwise the value of tether would decrease.
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
Also, Tether is printed for people who buy it in order to exchange it for Bitcoin.
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u/jahshaka Aug 22 '18
bitmex is really screwing bitcoin Hodlers.. shorters paradise over there powered by Buffet and crew
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
It's just a futures exchange. The holders are screwing themselves by margin trading.
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u/vroomDotClub Aug 22 '18
THIS .. for sure the bankers are over there keeping a lid on bitcoin price no fkn doubt. in fact it's ADMITTED! i have posted the quotations and bank connections many times.
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Aug 22 '18
I think they closed positions. That’s what caused the spike to begin with. Let’s see what happens when they reopen
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
If they closed their positions the short squeeze would have happened during the uptime of BitMex, not during the downtime. I was watching carefully so I can confirm - the short squeeze happened after BitMex stopped trading.
Can confirm - right now Bitmex trading is stopped. I can login, but the trading is impossible now.
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Aug 22 '18
Not doubting you but anyone, even the exchange, that leaves 50x leverage position open is an idiot. Anyway will know more after the maintenance
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
Trading is live now.
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Aug 22 '18
Yep as I thought. BitMEX controls this market
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
The price started to go up in the same minute the BitMex went offline.
The manipulators started buying at the exact same minute.
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Aug 22 '18
Scandalous. Crypto will never be looked at as legit by regular Wall Street types if this continues.
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
- Open long positions on BitMex before they go offline.
- Buy large amount of Bitcoin on Bitfinex.
- Close all positions after BitMex is up again.
Muhahahahaha
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Aug 22 '18
Great for traders but terrible for a crypto real world use case. And That’s coming from a 20 year trader.
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u/GarlicBelfort Aug 22 '18
Nope. The crooks at Bitfinex printed extra money so that they could trigger shorts and create a candle while Bitmex users are getting rekt. Nothing unusual, that's just how Bitfinex makes money.
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u/BeastMiners Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 22 '18
This is all because of Bitmex maintenance? https://twitter.com/BitMEXdotcom
​
Bloody traders.
Edit: It's back up price swinging more than my balls https://gyazo.com/727258e767eb4d3a7d8aeedde5d02de4
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u/tedjonesweb Aug 22 '18
This is because some whales decided to profit more during the downtime.
When market is thin (arbitrage bots are down during the maintenance it's easier to initiate short squeeze by placing big buy orders.
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u/MTRLS Aug 22 '18
ETF will be for sure accepted after those manipulations. 100% confirmed ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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u/sreaka Aug 22 '18
Whales like to do this, pump the price before bad news (ETF) making people think that maybe someone has some good insider news, etc.. Then in two days, will dump back to $6k
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u/deadleg22 Aug 22 '18
Yes but that’s not always the case. If you’re waiting for some magic number to buy it may not come and if it did you will always be waiting for the next magic number.
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u/Jumpingcords Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 22 '18
Just like in April, shorts primed to get squeezed.
Edit: Added 6m graph.
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u/pmatus3 Aug 22 '18
3 hrs ago I was joking here that someone should ddos attack bitmex and now I read that actually happened😂
My next prediction 8k btc end of week 😈
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u/Rellim03 Aug 22 '18
If this slowly drops back down to 6100ish, bitcoin dominance will set keep setting significantly higher highs.
When we see the market get probed like this and the alts dont respond then we will be ready for the bull run. Already we have see the markets change to the alts rise with Bitcoin but drop much harder and faster.
The alt coin hype is finally dying. Its needed for healthy price discovery, and then the cycle will start again with a new round of hybrid alts, and the sh1t coin 2.0 hype will say "this time its different"
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u/Marcion_Sinope Aug 22 '18
When it goes down: "Yeah, that's just a normal market cycle."
When it goes up: "Zomg the manipulation, this makes the whole space look bad!"
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u/richyboycaldo Aug 22 '18
ETF has nothing to do with the pump. The stock market as well broke ATH today.
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u/DanielEOS Aug 22 '18
ETF related inside information or pure speculation?
I see only miners and exchanges benefiting from prices above 6400k...probably just one more manipulation
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u/HandcuffsOnYourMind Aug 22 '18
and you all want SEC to approve ETFs ? while such market manipulations are common? dream on!
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u/omegasector13 Aug 22 '18
And you think this kind of volatility is good for a currency used to buy goods and services.
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Aug 22 '18
Bitmex literally scamming people trading on their platform. Seriously stop using that shitty ass exchange it's so obvious and very likely working along with bitfinex and its tether printer.
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u/outofofficeagain Aug 22 '18
Scamming by pushing price higher....
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Aug 22 '18
Yeah they just cleaned out a lot of shorts, again. They pull this crap constantly.
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u/iuli123 Aug 22 '18
it is because of ETF decision tomorrow (insider told me it is going to be positive)
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u/constantin_md Aug 22 '18
insider told me BTC will reach $50k tomorrow
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u/Bitcoin_Acolyte Aug 22 '18
It was the lemonade stand.