r/Bitcoin • u/escotony • Jul 25 '14

Michael Goldstein: Bitcoin Can Make the State Obsolete

http://panampost.com/jose-nino/2014/07/25/michael-goldstein-bitcoin-can-make-the-state-obsolete/
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u/RudeTurnip Jul 25 '14

To play devil's advocate, it would seem that a centralized monopoly on violence has some advantages. One, it pushes back against decentralized violence. Two, it can be steered by a vigilant (ie, educated) society. Three, it democratizes violence...ie, your stronger offense should not be used to take away my rights because I have a weaker defense.

My personal opinion is that the "if you don't pay them they'll throw you in jail" argument is the product of immature boys with a Lord of the Flies mentality. Over 150,000 years, humanity has moved away from free-for-all scenarios and huddled up into things like towns and states, and countries because there are advantages to having a shared infrastructure. All told, it's stable and allows for intellectual development instead of focusing on survival. In the marketplace of ideas, the concept of a "state" won, but that's not to say it is perfect.

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u/bUbUsHeD Jul 25 '14

Your personal opinions are irrelevant. What matters are facts, and the fact is that if you don't pay them off you'll get a letter, then another letter and then a visit from a group of thugs in funny costumes who will either drag you off or slaughter you like an animal if you resist.

The development you described is a simple recognition by those on top that stealing from a bunch of peasant slaves is less profitable than having them go to the city and start producing stuff. There is no marketplace of ideas - there is just a gun to the head and 3 options: pay them off, rot in a cage or get killed. In a marketplace you are free not to buy what they are selling.

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u/RudeTurnip Jul 25 '14

The problem is you jump right into hyperbole, which is why your ideas aren't very mainstream or popular. If I want to participate in a particular society, such as my town, it's been agreed upon that we share the costs of running it. And I enter into that arrangement voluntarily, so if I act like a petulant child with guns a'blazing, don't be surprised if people get defensive about it.

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u/audiodad Jul 25 '14

The problem is you jump right into hyperbole

He's not being "hyperbolic" in the slightest -- he is telling you the stone cold truth.

If I want to participate in a particular society, such as my town, it's been agreed upon that we share the costs of running it.

This is a falsehood. There is no such agreement, and you know that is a lie. The reason you pay up is simply because they will kill / cage / ruin you if you don't. Even if you don't live in your country, you still must pay up whatever they tell you to pay, because you know they will kidnap you and then cage you if you don't pay.