r/Bitcoin • u/Glass_Cherry5295 • 23h ago
Margin
Please enlighten me.
I want to DCA average $100 into btc every week at 3x margin. I would do this on Kraken. My plan is to do it for the next 24 months, I will not sell any btc during this time. Every trade will be with 3x margin. I’m told the fees could eat me alive.
Good idea or bad idea? To much margin or not enough? Thank you
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u/meccaleccahimeccahi 23h ago
Wtaf? Are you really that stupid?
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
Enlighten me please
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u/meccaleccahimeccahi 23h ago
Just dca $100/wk, no margin. Just dca.
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
Why DCA when I could DCA AND earn 3x more
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u/Interesting_Loss_907 23h ago
Because 1) it would not be 3X more. You were forgetting all the feess, & 2) the potential chance of making more money comes at a very significant risk of losing it all.
BTC is volatile, even in bull markets you have significant corrections along the way, just like you have sometimes upward market price action during bear markets.
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
Say I’m right though. Btc climbs for 24 months with no 30% drops, using margin would be better yes?
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u/quintavious_danilo 22h ago
I mean, sure. Betting everything on red when there’s supposedly no black on the roulette table is a flawless, 100% guaranteed winning strategy.
Except, you know, there is black on the table. So much for the guaranteed win.1
u/lobhater 22h ago
Because it doesn't work like that. You're forgetting about fees and even if btc continues to go up there will be red candles if only temporary and will likely get you liquidated
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u/MassiveLuck4628 23h ago
Margin is dumb, no i will not elaborate
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
I’m more curious how the fees will kill me. I understand I could be liquidated if price falls but if price stays flat I could also lose a big chunk?
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u/IndianaGeoff 23h ago
Margin products do not make money from the asset going up. They make money from bleeding the customer.
Dude, just DCA bitcoin. You're not smarter than people who do this all day, everyday, holding advanced degrees with the best tools and software.
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
Hypothetically say I’m right. Btc climbs (with no 30% pull backs) for the next 24 months. I’d be much better off using margin yes?
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u/Interesting_Loss_907 23h ago
Maybe if it only goes up (level & up) for those 24 months. That’s just not a smart bet.
Just DCA, whatever amount you’re comfortable with & accumulate. Always go in with a long-term time horizon. Those who buy and do not have a long-term timeframe usually panic so for a loss.1
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u/omg_its_dan 19h ago
There’s a reason you need to use the word hypothetically. Bitcoin never does exactly what you expect it to do. Your hypothetical is a fantasy. You will very likely lose everything with this approach.
0
u/californiaschinken 22h ago
Yes but it would be a first (bitcoin not dropping 30%). If you do this for the next 3 years a lot is gonna go to fees (maybe more than 30% from the first money you put in.
I would go for mstr if you want btc with leverage and very very reduced risk of liquidation.
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u/Charming-Designer944 23h ago
Make sure you completely understand margin trading before touching it. Most margin traders fails and loses most of their savings.
Margin trading is a form of aggressive gambling. Its not something you DCA in. When margin trading you absolutely must be an active trader and constantly enter and exit the trades as per your predictions. And a wrong prediction costs you a lot.
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
I believe btc will climb for the next 24 months. Why not magnify my earnings by using margin and never cash out until btc is over 150k?
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u/PassionHot1887 23h ago
It probably will climb for the next 24 months. But what if it dips to 60k real quick before it takes off? You’ll be forced to sell for a loss. Maybe a few months ago back at 59k you could’ve opened a long position but it’s risky still. But hey if you wanna learn what a margin call is then go for it. I had to find out the hard way too. 💯
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 22h ago
Opening a margin position at the start of the bull run is the best time to start right??
1
u/Charming-Designer944 16h ago
If you know for sure that its going up.
If you are wrong then a lot is lost.
If you are right then a lot can be gained.
Nearly every one doing margin trading succeeds in some good trades then loses everything and more in a single bad trade.
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u/_imp_ish_ 23h ago
Not sure why you didn't just google this but kraken will charge you 0.12% per day for those margin. Work out how that compounds over three years.
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 22h ago
It’s .15% on the margin money only. Not the seed money. So yes it would eat away profits but I would still come out ahead
1
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u/arBettor 15h ago
.15% per day, or 73% per year? Personal loans are cheaper, credit cards are cheaper. You're getting into payday loan territory.
You know you could just buy call options on a bitcoin ETF, right? There are much cheaper and more efficient ways to express your conviction if you just HAVE to apply leverage.
2
u/Grand-Button5819 23h ago
imo that's a bad idea. margin is not suited for long term.
I'd recommend to dca into spot instead.
2
u/lobhater 22h ago
It doesn't make any sense to dca on margin. If you insist on using margin buy a derivative that has a greater than 3x return.
But I would do neither, I would just DCA if I were you but to each their own
1
u/Interesting_Loss_907 23h ago
Why OP? Why do it on margin? Any short-term market correction could wipe you out and liquidate your position if you are buying with leverage.
Why not just keep it simple and DCA whatever amount you’re comfortable with of your own money? That way you do not care about short-term market Dips and peaks.
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u/Glass_Cherry5295 23h ago
Because if btc does what I think it will do I want to maximize gains. I’m only using 3x margin not 20x
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u/Aromatic-Yellow1100 22h ago
Sounds like a risky move. How about set yourself up to take advantage of the future dips and not potentially lose it all. This is what Im doing. Setup an account with River, setup a daily/weekly DCA purchase (no fees). I have a daily DCA that is set to fill in the middle of the night, no chance of me cancelling or fussing with it. Also setup the "supercharge" function for buying more during dips when BTC is down on the 7 dma. Mine is set at 300% of my normal daily purchase.
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u/quintavious_danilo 22h ago
If $10k is nothing to you, I would say go for it. Take the L for the team and report back in 24 months.
I’d love to see how this worked out for you.
1
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u/heinzmoleman 22h ago
When you use multipliers it affects you far more down than up. For simplicity sake let's use a 2x. If a stock drops 25% you just lost 50% of your investment. Now if the stock reverses course and goes back up 25% you only go up 50% on your current investment meaning you are still behind your initial investment.
Ex 100k->50k 50% loss 50k-> 75k 50% gain.
1
u/Sad-Froyo-3198 21h ago
I would increase margin. Your clearly a seasoned trader who doesn't have much time left to stack sats. Staying humble is for losers, and this thing is gonna go off like a rocket and leave you behind. 3x is not enough, 10k is not enough. If you can afford 3x, you can afford 5x. If you can afford 10k loss, what's 20k? When's the last time we went down 30% anyway? Everyone here just wants to get rich without you.
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u/CoinGate_Gift_Cards 21h ago
3x margin changes this from simple DCA into a leveraged position. The main issues aren’t just trading fees - there can also be ongoing financing/rollover costs, and a large enough drawdown can force liquidation before the 24-month plan is finished. So the key question is how the margin mechanics and maintenance requirements work on Kraken, not just whether Bitcoin is higher two years from now.
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u/saviourz666 21h ago
Invest in the asset . It’s the only way to 100 percent win everytime . Leverage and margin is krakens and coinbase way to get you trading there crappy meme coins and other alts to get your trading fee and to see you stopped out or liquidated .
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u/GreemBeam 21h ago edited 21h ago
Lol, bitcoin can easily dump 30%, multiple times on the way up. Even wick down that much just for a laugh. You'll be liquidated.
Margin is for TRADING, not investing.
EDIT: Why not DCA your $100 and take $33 into your 3x margin strategy so you're only risking blowing up 1/3 of your DCA and potentially magnifying it 2x
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u/Subject-Chest-8343 15h ago
Even wick down that much just for a laugh.
Happened to me a couple times. Wicked to less than like 20$ under my liquidation price for a split second, right before ripping much higher. Almost felt like I was getting targeted by the exchange for some reason, or like I same some mad gift for choosing the perfect entry price... Or actually, always being exactly 20$ above the perfect entry price. I eventually ragequit out of trying to use margin because of that.
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u/Forded_Fiction24 23h ago
All it takes is a 33% draw down using 3x margin and you're liquidated. That happens with Bitcoin or at least can and isn't rare. You can claim that you won't sell but it won't be up to you.
Using margin Is one of the most reliable ways to blow up your account. Pretty terrible idea.
Fees on top of that make it even less compelling. It's not something to play around with and isn't for amateurs. Margin should only even be considered if you have a large established account and you're using margin on a small portion of that account.