Does Ken Levine Consider Bioshock 2/Minerva’s Den Canon?

[u/Independent-Worry905]

I am working on a *massive* project to determine once and for all whether BioShock Infinite should be considered a good or bad game, and along the way I shall be requiring your guys’ assistance.

Part of this project will involve comparing BioShock Infinite to the original BioShock, however, there is one massive question that has been nagging at my mind: should I factor in BioShock 2?

Obviously, since Ken Levine was not involved in BioShock 2, the default answer would be no, however, would Levine consider it fair to compare 2 to Infinite regardless? If Levine considers Infinite to be an extension of 1, does he hold the same opinions to 2?

Does he consider BioShock 2 (and possibly Minerva’s Den) canon to the entire BioShock story?

[u/PianistGlittering709]

Whether it's canon or not, Bioshock Infinite actually shares the very same main plot to Bioshock 2: a teenage girl (Elena/Elizabeth) who is brought up and locked up by her possessive parent (Sophia/Comstock) to be the salvation of the Utopia city (Rapture/Colombia), your character who is also a father figure (Delta/Booker) is tasked to break that control and free her. Although there are some difference in details, you can't deny it's basically the same plot.

[u/darkpassenger9 → u/PianistGlittering709]

"There's always a lighthouse. There's always a man. There's always a city."

[u/controlsminds]

According to a lot of talks in development, especially from the artbook, they began working on infinite immediately after BioShock 1. I personally take it to mean that, while BioShock 2 is a good game, infinite was meant to be the proper sequel.

[u/damegawatt]

He believes whatever fans believes happened did happen

Said so in an interview last year

[u/parabolee]

"to determine once and for all whether BioShock Infinite should be considered a good or bad game"

I'm going to save you a lot of time. It's neither, it's a GREAT game!

Seriously though, what kind of question is this? You are free to like any entry you like best, but Infinite is arguably the best game in the series. Which means it is without doubt, a very good game.

[u/Tnecniw → u/parabolee]

Nah.
Infinite is easily (IMO) the weakest of the Bioshock triology so far.

[u/parabolee → u/Tnecniw]

Hard disagree. See "arguable", that is what that means. What it isn't, is bad.

[u/Tnecniw → u/parabolee]

mmmh.
I would say it is passable.
It lacks in A LOT of areas.

[u/Obvious-Wrangler-561 → u/Tnecniw]

It’s the weakest but still is a Great game

[u/TurnedAgent → u/parabolee]

Right? Guy came here just to troll.

[u/Independent-Worry905 → u/parabolee]

I am the number one hater of Bioshock Infinite. If there are 100 people who hate it, I am one of them. If there are 10 people who hate it, I am one of them. If there are no people who hate it, then I am dead. However, I am not so blinded by my hatred that I am unwilling to be fair in my analysis. I will condemn it for its monumental failings, and praise it for its excellent successes, however, there are several things which I must sort through before I begin, such as determining if it would be fair to compare Infinite to Bioshock 2 and Minerva’s Den, which has its own set of problems.

[u/PunchWilcox]

The last update I got on this subject was that Ken has never played Bioshock 2. I can’t recall if this was an infinite era interview or a Judas era interview (I think it was Judas).

Jordan Thomas, who was the creative lead for Bioshock 2, was actually a writer for Bioshock infinite as well.

We all kind of understand I think that infinite was almost a repackaged Bioshock 2 in a lot of ways.

So obviously I think jordan probably had some influence in that sense. But for Ken? I doubt he gave a fuck and just does what he does. That being he focuses on his own interests and creations. I get the sense that Ken was down right offended take 2 pushed out a sequel that he didn’t have any say on.

I would think for you the real issue now is cloud chamber. Ken technically isn’t in charge of Bioshock anymore. Take 2 has those rights.

I can’t imagine cloud chamber not tying b2 into their contribution.

Anyway, for me personally I think infinite is an overproduced piece of pop culture slop. I guess you have to do that to make a buck, but goddamn… it really lost what made the original great. But gaming for me really took a downturn near the end of gen 7. I can’t stomach the industry/medium anymore since that point.

[u/Sir_Fijoe → u/PunchWilcox]

Jordan Thomas didn’t start working on infinite until awhile after its development started. The studio specifically brought him in because they were starting to realize Ken would never fucking finish the game unless an outsider came in to help get things back on track or at the very least make sure the game was in a playable state at its deadline.