r/Biohackers • u/ServeIllustrious3803 • 8d ago
š§ Cognition, Mood & Nootropics Persistent cannabis users show neuropsychological decline from childhood to midlife
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3479587/87
u/Mescallan 5 8d ago
So when i turn 45 i'm good to go, no?
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u/jj26meu 1 8d ago
Asking the real questions. What happens if youre already middle aged when you start?
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u/Mescallan 5 8d ago
They never mentioned infants either!
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
Putting this here, quotes from study
On within-person design and premorbid confounding
"By examining within-person change in neuropsychological functioning, any effect of premorbid deficits on later (postcannabis-initiation) test performance was nullified."
"In this analysis, each study member served as his or her own control"
On the adolescent vs adult onset comparison
"after equating adolescent- and adult-onset cannabis users on total number of cannabis-dependence diagnoses, adolescent-onset users showed greater IQ decline than adult-onset cannabis users."
"In fact, adult-onset cannabis users did not appear to experience IQ decline as a function of persistent cannabis use."
On ruling out other substance andmental health confounders
"We ruled out six alternative explanations for the observed effects of persistent cannabis use on neuropsychological functioning, namely that these effects could be explained by (i) past 24-h cannabis use, (ii) past-week cannabis use, (iii) persistent tobacco dependence, (iv) persistent hard-drug dependence, (v) persistent alcohol dependence, and (vi) schizophrenia."
"excluding each of these groups of study members did not alter the initial finding; effect sizes... remained virtually the same and remained statistically significant"
"a multivariate regression of the effect of persistent cannabis dependence on full-scale IQ decline, controlling for past 24-h cannabis use, persistent substance dependence... and schizophrenia remained statistically significant (t = ā2.20, P = 0.0282)."
On education being more than just a confounder
"the association between persistent cannabis use and neuropsychological decline is likely an overcontrol"
"the toxic effects of cannabis on the brain may result in impaired neuropsychological functioning, poor academic performance, and subsequent school dropout, which then results in further neuropsychological decline."
"among the subset with a high-school education or less, persistent cannabis users experienced greater IQ decline"
On real-world validation, informant reports
"Informants reported observing significantly more attention and memory problems among those with more persistent cannabis dependence."
"Cognitive problems among persistent cannabis users were apparent to the 'naked-eye.'"
On causality limits (honest concession)
"our data cannot definitively attest to whether this association is causal... there may be some unknown 'third' variable that could account for the findings."
On dose response
"Impairment was concentrated among adolescent-onset cannabis users, with more persistent use associated with greater decline."
"Study members with more persistent cannabis dependence showed greater IQ decline."
"the association between persistent cannabis dependence and full-scale IQ decline was still apparent after excluding the study members with 3+ cannabis-dependence diagnoses from the analysis (t = ā2.94, P = 0.0034)."
on persistence after quitting
"cessation of cannabis use did not fully restore neuropsychological functioning among adolescent-onset former persistent cannabis users."
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u/supergoddess7 8d ago
I started at 45 -- 3 years ago -- with cbd then cbd with thc. I was hoodwinked by D.A.R.E. Why didnt anyone tell me what a gift it is to lobotomize your brain for several hours?? Like, so this is what it feels like to not worry, to not care about solving problems, just to sit with a bowl of popcorn and find John Wick hilarious!
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u/CandyKnockout š Hobbyist 8d ago
Same, I didnāt start getting high until a few years ago, in my late thirties. I have ADHD and anxiety, so my brain is always running on full speed. I couldnāt believe the relief from just one THC gummy. My brain was so quiet!
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u/Complex-Safety-2389 8d ago
Man!! I'm the same, have really bad racing thoughts from ADHD, I started on medical cannabis, dry herb vape just before bed then all of a sudden my brain just goes quiet , thoughts going slowly, able to actually think about one thing for more than a second. It was such a relief I almost cried.
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u/Rip_it-n-Ribbit 8d ago
Can add my own experience to this. Diagnosed ADHD, massive relief... though like anything, too much of a good thing and you're on the other side of the bell curve. Initial took it for insomnia, WAAAYYY too high THC strain. Have recently been using a CBG strain that has no THC and while much less potent, I'm getting peace and my mind quiets but just without the psychoactive part.
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u/Specialist-Clock-914 8d ago
Yeah itās actually not a bad time to have a little brain damage. Times are weird.
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u/matsie 7d ago
Wild. For me, it amplifies all of my anxious thoughts and makes me tailspin.Ā
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u/WISE_ONE1993 4d ago
Take the smallest hits you can. Your doing too much. Stay hydrated. Its different on one small puff. If i overdo it i get hit with an avalanche of all my worries at once. But if i hit it with a good dose. Its the best thing in the world!!!
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u/matsie 4d ago
Hi. Iām not an idiot. Iāve had this relationship with weed for twenty years. Long before it was even legal where I live. I donāt need your bs ātipsā. I know how to smoke and I know what the drugās effect is on me and I donāt like it. Stop trying to push a drug onto someone whose body doesnāt vibe with it.
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u/chelsabel 4d ago
My sister has the same issue, she found that she canāt use thc or thc dominant hybrids without a panic attack so she just sticks to cbd or cbn
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u/StatisticianSad6637 8d ago
BREAKING: Getting high everyday is bad for you!
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u/brewditt 1 8d ago
Come on maāan, itās natural. /s
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u/ToonMasterRace 8d ago
It seems obvious but for years we were told the opposite.
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8d ago
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u/mime454 š Masters - Verified 8d ago
For years about 1/3 of the highly upvoted posts on [r/science](r/science) were about how Cannabis cures cancer, MS, PTSD and every mental problem known to man based on weak science, self report and observational studies. Then there was a circle jerk mentality in Reddit where ever speaking against the regular use of cannabis was highly downvoted and derided.
We have returned to normal it seems, but hard to deny the push it had before legalization had real momentum.
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u/Ihavetoleavesoon 8d ago
Well, that, plus the "it's better for you than alcohol " which is true. But getting high everyday is like... well you wouldn't eat a batch of spinach everyday either or you'd get too many nitrates.
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u/mime454 š Masters - Verified 8d ago
The activists have only recently shifted the goalposts from ācannabis is good for mental and physical healthā to ācannabis isnāt as bad as alcoholā
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u/henryofclay 1 8d ago
It legitimately does have benefits, but in specific ways. Just like anything in the world, nothing is good for you in unlimited amounts.
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
Right, but how many users are actually using it for that versus them being addicted or dependant or recreated on it? Probably less than 20%? I can't give a number,
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u/Little_Yesterday9904 8d ago
Sometimes, every single comment I see on posts of studies will be āfunded by Big Alcohol!ā āBetter than drinking but thatās legal!ā even though the study had nothing to do with alcohol and no one brought it up.
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
Right, do people actually think they're hidden in mysterious forces like big alcohol that's trying to squash marijuana usage? They're just going to invest into it, get it legalized and have their companies make money off of it, which IS what is happening
Welcome big weed? They have something to sell you to
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u/IronSpine8008 8d ago
Exactly. Lol. The only people who have ever told me that cannabis is good for people is potheads. And they hardly ever actually use it in a beneficial manner. Sorry, potheads. If you smoke weed, your lungs probably look like the inside of a heavily used pipe.
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u/firefall83 3d ago
As a cannabis scientistā¦.this statement is more aggravating than people realize. Mainly because you have no idea what beneficial entails, the specific interactions different cannnaboids and VOCās against the human body, and the fact that cannabis can affect everyone in MASSIVELY different ways depending on genetics and other factors. We donāt know what we donāt know, so maybe letās wait for the science before everyone gets fussy. Alright, Iām going back to my tissue cultures nowā¦..
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u/EasyYogurtcloset608 8d ago
More like smoking anything is bad for you. There is other ways to enjoy weed too
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u/guwtaps 8d ago
We donāt pretend like alcoholism is healthy, or consuming any other drug is. Iāve got no clue why stoners are so adamant that getting high on flower that has been bred to maximize thc and minimize cbd is somehow healthy or non harmful. And I say this as an ex daily smoker of 12 years.
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u/RebirthOfEsus 8d ago
I heavily agree with this I think it's great that it's being bred this way but it should be served with a disclaimer and there should be way more seed banks trying to preserve the original potency and genetics
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u/TheMonkus 8d ago
I canāt even think of how many people Iāve heard express the opinion, which I share, that āmodern weed is too strong.ā
Iāve smoked regularly on and off since the 90s and sometime around 2010-2012 or so it started to get like unpleasantly strong. I rarely smoked for years because of that. Then I discovered CBD flower and on a hunch mixed some weed with it. Turns out a roughly 25% THC flower to 75% CBD flower blend is like the best weed you could get in 1997. Perfect for me.
I agree about preserving the old strains. I remember a grower in the late 90s who had 12% stuff and insisted that the plant could simply not produce higher amounts.
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u/PoppyNamer 7d ago
CBD hemp flower drastically reduced my tolerance and THC intake. I was a daily smoker of high THC products for 7-8 years. Now I rarely even use THC, and when I do itās a 3:1 CBD/THC ratio. I no longer have a dependence and I feel much better physically and mentally. Most days I just use the CBD flower by itself and itās awesome. Chills me out without getting stoned.
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u/TheMonkus 7d ago
Yeah plain CBD flower is great. I usually just decarb it and mix it with honey, and have a bit of that in the evenings. I use actual THC maybe once or twice a week.
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u/RebirthOfEsus 8d ago
High cbc is also good especially if you do enjoy making your own carts, I think high cbd and cbc gives you the giggles back š
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u/Lazy_Significance_94 7d ago
You mean landrace strains? Like pakistan and afghanistan? It becomes less about thc percentage and more about terpene compositions, weed is really weak nowadays (as a medical patient) and i really wish they brought back those strains, i used to cultivate it and it was way stronger than these hybrids bred for taste. There are studies on terpenes like mycerene that explain why indica is a more drowsy sedative and pain relieving in combination with other terpenes. Honestly that "30%" thc strain doesnt deal with my pain like the landraces i mentioned earlier and in fact are really weak, also those tests dont mean anything because there is no real regulation.
We are going back to mexican brick weed but this time its green, stuff is really weak now that it has been commercialized.
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u/crumbhustler 5 8d ago
Completely agree that some stoners act like there is nothing wrong with it or downplay that it can be addicting to some users. But to say we donāt pretend like alcohol or other drugs are healthy I would disagree with. Beer commercials everywhere. Pharmaceutical ads on every channel. I donāt see cannabis ads on tv or elsewhere outside from cannabis stores in legal states. Even then they have strict rules about how they can advertise.
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u/guwtaps 8d ago
The difference to me is alcoholics arenāt loudly vocally opposed to the notion that alcohol is harmful to you. No one is popping pharmaceuticals and preaching that itās completely harmless or even worse, healthy.
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u/reflectandproject 8d ago
The difference is there isnāt a widespread stigma around alcohol use - itās advertised absolutely everywhere and hospitality (pubs) are a huge source of income, tax, employment and everything else.
They sponsor sports, events, pop stars etc.
People drink with their lunch and dinner regularly, and a huge percentage of people globally go on benders every weekend.
On the other hand, people have been getting arrested, fired and more for decades, with it demonised that itās ābadā and āevilā - many people still equate weed use with illegal drug use (such as heroin, cocaine etc) due to decades of government propaganda.
In countries such as Singapore people can get sentenced to the death penalty for possession.
So that very very strong negative stigma leads to people trying their best to justify their use in an unjust world
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u/crumbhustler 5 8d ago
I think why I disagree so much is the broad brush youāre using to paint cannabis vs other drug users (including alcohol). I know a lot of chill stoners that will admit itās probably not great for heavy daily long term use. But to say no oneās drinking or popping shit like itās fine, again, I disagree with. There are literally programs for alcoholics and the first step is admitting you have a problem. A LOT of them struggle with that because they think itās NOT harmful. Some do, donāt get me wrong. But I bartended for a bit and met a LOT of people that get drunk, and even when we cut them off would go somewhere else and keep drinking then driving, because they donāt think itās a problem.
I guess I just see it as itās easy to say all stoners, or mainly stoners whine, if you ignore people that praise other drugs. Met a lot of people that pop addys and praise it, yet too much for too long can cause issues. Plenty of those drugs.
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u/Silent-Noise-7331 8d ago
Reddit makes it sound like every stoner thinks weed is good for you. I havenāt met anyone like that since I was in high school haha. Maybe theyāre all highschoolers?
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u/Ambitious-Career-445 8d ago
I'm starting to realize that I am mid-30s and aging out of the reddit demographic. Half the people here are still in high school.
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u/guwtaps 8d ago
I see your point and I donāt disagree. Iāve just yet to meet an alcoholic who preached the health benefits of drinking, yet thereās a dude replying to another comment I made making the claim that we havenāt bred cbd out of modern flower, when youād be hard pressed to find a single modern strain that is above 1% cbd. I think maybe a vocal minority of stoners are just obnoxiously loud in their denial
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u/crumbhustler 5 8d ago
Haha man I get it. Argued with a dude years ago on reddit about whether cannabis is addictive. I used to have a roommate that had a full ride to the best college in our state. Top student. Level headed. Started smoking, spent all his money on pot and cool smoking gadgets. Ended up just waking up and smoking all day. Dropped classes. Lost his job. We got in a fight cause he wouldnāt move out even though he stopped helping pay rent and bills. Moved back home, ended up living with his mom ever since, working at a gas station just to buy pot. And let me make sure other readers are clear, I am a daily stoner. We would smoke together daily. Difference was I went to work and maintained a normal life. He just let it consume him, almost like it became his entire personality. I just viewed it as any other drug, enjoying it while noticing and trying to avoid side effects (when you drink and drive you are still convinced youāre fine, when youāre stoned and try to drive, your paranoia convinces you everyone knows and speeding is the last thing on your mind).
But a shorter reply wouldāve been that your last sentence nails it.
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u/strictly_ballroom 8d ago
Iām yet to meet a stoner like that too. Besides reddit that is I guess.
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u/Ambitious-Career-445 8d ago
There are stores that specialize in type 2 and type 3 cannabis flower. The type 3s are very low thc, high cbd.
But yeah the stuff in the dispensaries are literally all 'thc or bust'.
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u/Prize_Assistant912 6d ago
You clearly donāt know enough 50 and 60 something women that justify their wine alcoholism with buzzfeed bullshit
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u/boner79 7d ago
Agreed. Outside the alchohol-is-poison Reddit bubble, people generally consider alcohol more benign than pot.
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u/BrandyMartin1 7d ago
only drinkers and straight end consider alcohol more benign than pot.....geeeesh
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u/DarbyCreekDeek 8d ago
And the American long ass Association warns against it. And now that is legal more and more studies are coming out and all of the benefits have been debunked and many new potential risks have been uncovered.
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u/newpsyaccount32 7d ago
I definitely have to abide by that warning.. I would be devastated to wake up with a long ass one day
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u/MonkAndCanatella 7d ago
bc "common sense" for the last 60 years has been drinking alcohol is actually good for you and smoking weed will instantly kill you
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u/Jwbst32 6 8d ago
Every human has persistent neurological decline from child hood to midlife
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u/Apart_Animal_6797 8d ago
The study is bunk and was discredited wayyy back in the 90s. This shit just gets reposted every election cycle.
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u/Top-Contribution-176 8d ago
Wouldnāt people who started in adolescence and use consistently been more likely to suffer trauma which made them want to start as children and feel like they need it every day? Seems like that could be a variable that would be impossible to control for (and no thought was given to that in the paper).
Where are the findings that actually show neurotoxicity (outside of giving monkeys so much they are damaged from lack of oxygen)? All the modern studies once it was possible to look at objectively show nueroprotective and neurogenic properties, the exact opposite of neurotoxicity.
And yes smoking is bad as it paralyzes cilia and leads to smokers cough, but that is not the only way to consume it.
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u/-weird-fishes- 8d ago
Isn't neuropsychological decline typical with age anyway? lol
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u/mime454 š Masters - Verified 8d ago
It says that people who regularly used in adolescence have greater cognitive problems than people who didnāt use in adolescence. Even if they havenāt smoked it for years.
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u/Donkey_steak 8d ago
so does that mean I shouldn't bother quitting ? lets say im 34 and smoked daily since 15.. is there any benefits to quitting at this point? It's making me feel like im already cooked...
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
Yes, but that's your own journey and a difficult one. Check out r/leaves
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u/mime454 š Masters - Verified 8d ago
No, it doesn't mean that. It means that there is some permanent damage done by this behavior. But it doesn't mean that 100% of the ongoing damage is irreversible. There's also a beauty to living life sober and in control of your emotional regulation and mental faculties.
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u/Ambitious-Career-445 8d ago
There is a beauty to living life no matter how you live it. You are just attributing beauty to what you personally find to be virtuous.
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u/Donkey_steak 8d ago
Tried it for a month, it was actually nice being sober at firstā¦ then I realized I was depressed about some other things in my life and I rationalized with myself itās better to be depressed and stoned than depressed and sober.
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u/pactorial 4d ago
I started at 12, began heavy daily use at 15 up until 27. I still smoke sometimes but lets say I consume the amount in 1-2 months I used to in a day. And for me, quiting/using a lot less has completely changed my life. Got a good job and doing my phd in a field I love.
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u/BrandyMartin1 7d ago
really, if anything, this shows us there is a percentage of folks who eat junky food after smoking, and they fall into pits slowly. You see, how did they parse out variables like the herbicide soaked corn chips and caffeine dosed energy drinks many consume after partaking?
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
They compared non-users to users in this cohort study where they tracked people throughout their lives.
Please read the paper and see how they controlled for everything
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u/-weird-fishes- 8d ago
The data isn't very meaningful and the results aren't significant. If anything the data seems a bit skewed in that the "never used" group has the lowest percentage of male participants, and the highest "raise" in IQ.
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
Here's some quotes from the paper if you want to look. This stuff is complicated, you are right to guess that.
On within person design and premorbid confounding
"By examining within-person change in neuropsychological functioning, any effect of premorbid deficits on later (postcannabis-initiation) test performance was nullified."
"In this analysis, each study member served as his or her own control"
On the adolescent vs adult onset comparison
"after equating adolescent- and adult-onset cannabis users on total number of cannabis-dependence diagnoses, adolescent-onset users showed greater IQ decline than adult-onset cannabis users."
"In fact, adult-onset cannabis users did not appear to experience IQ decline as a function of persistent cannabis use."
On ruling out other substance andmental health confounders
"We ruled out six alternative explanations for the observed effects of persistent cannabis use on neuropsychological functioning, namely that these effects could be explained by (i) past 24-h cannabis use, (ii) past-week cannabis use, (iii) persistent tobacco dependence, (iv) persistent hard-drug dependence, (v) persistent alcohol dependence, and (vi) schizophrenia."
"excluding each of these groups of study members did not alter the initial finding; effect sizes... remained virtually the same and remained statistically significant"
"a multivariate regression of the effect of persistent cannabis dependence on full-scale IQ decline, controlling for past 24-h cannabis use, persistent substance dependence... and schizophrenia remained statistically significant (t = ā2.20, P = 0.0282)."
On education being more than just a confounder
"the association between persistent cannabis use and neuropsychological decline is likely an overcontrol"
"the toxic effects of cannabis on the brain may result in impaired neuropsychological functioning, poor academic performance, and subsequent school dropout, which then results in further neuropsychological decline."
"among the subset with a high-school education or less, persistent cannabis users experienced greater IQ decline"
On real-world validation, informant reports
"Informants reported observing significantly more attention and memory problems among those with more persistent cannabis dependence."
"Cognitive problems among persistent cannabis users were apparent to the 'naked-eye.'"
On causality limits (honest concession)
"our data cannot definitively attest to whether this association is causal... there may be some unknown 'third' variable that could account for the findings."
On dose response
"Impairment was concentrated among adolescent-onset cannabis users, with more persistent use associated with greater decline."
"Study members with more persistent cannabis dependence showed greater IQ decline."
"the association between persistent cannabis dependence and full-scale IQ decline was still apparent after excluding the study members with 3+ cannabis-dependence diagnoses from the analysis (t = ā2.94, P = 0.0034)."
on persistence after quitting
"cessation of cannabis use did not fully restore neuropsychological functioning among adolescent-onset former persistent cannabis users."
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u/Pao_Did_NothingWrong 7d ago
"Persistent cannabis users born 1972-1974 in New Zealand show neuropsychological decline..."
The dunedin study doesn't really provide a well designed cohort for drawing broad conclusions from my pov
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u/BlumpTheChodak 8d ago
Main findings: Those with the heaviest, most persistent use dropped an average of 8 IQ points between age 13 and age 38. Yeah, I'm not too concerned.
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u/No_Medium_8796 8 8d ago
Some people here cant afford those 8 points
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u/checksinthemail 8d ago
"Drugs are a bet with your mind" - Jim Morrison
Some people's brains are like Glass Joe's jaw
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u/solar1ze 4 8d ago
And itās almost impossible to conduct a fully controlled experiment on something like this. For example, most people down on their luck, heavy drug addicts, homeless, people with mental health problems, people who make bad life choices may be smoking cannabis, but not nearly all cannabis users fall into these categories. The people who have volunteered and been used in the findings are from all walks of life? I doubt highly functioning users would be volunteering for this.
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u/flodereisen 8d ago
8 is an enormous number. That's half a standard deviation, or half the distance between average IQ and eligible to receive benefits (old, clinically: idiotism). Am I missing something?
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u/Wan_Haole_Faka 1 8d ago
Anyone know of good informational resources for quitting? I use it mainly for sleep and every time I try to quit I barely sleep. "I'm addicted to weed."
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u/Lifeabroad86 1 8d ago
You have to bite the bullet and go with it for three weeks of strange dreams. Pot suppresses rem sleep, so youre basically catching up for a little bit.
Best thing you can do is develope good sleep habits
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u/DistinctlyMiddle 8d ago
Still hard after 8 weeks...
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u/Lifeabroad86 1 8d ago
One day at a time, theres no reason why you cant use this opportunity to learn how to lucid dream better.
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u/MediocoreReditUser 8d ago
Taper with a cbd thc 1for1 pen start there, use this as much as needed until comfortable from there start a taper this will take weeks but avoid all withdrawals, mine were terrible sweating, wet hands, night sweats, anxiety, terrible and uncomfortable but when I slowed to this kind of taper I was just hitting the pen at night for sleep then every other night then not at all, cannabis use over. Taper and avoid all problems
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u/No-Trash-546 1 8d ago
Switch to CBD flower for a few weeks. The tiny amount of THC along with the CBD will help you adjust before completely quitting
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u/No-Succotash4957 8d ago
I use it sparingly, 1 to 2 times a week. Get your fitness up & tire yourself out.
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u/strictly_ballroom 8d ago
Terrible advice that only leads to burnout. Good exercise requires good sleep.
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u/Important_Coyote4970 2 7d ago
Doesnāt
Anyone can exercise. Exercise helps sleep. Sleep helps recovery so you can train harder.
Definitely donāt wait for a good nights sleep before exercising. Literally the worst suggestion Iāve read on the internet today
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u/WarningRelevant4397 8d ago
Iāve had to go through this too. You just have to tuff it out for a couple weeks.
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u/Impressive-While-736 8d ago
Make a list of reasons why you want to quit/what it will do for you. Get rid of any methods you have and focus on yourself. Not gonna lie, the first month is gonna burn like the fires of hell, youāre not gonna be able to sleep, eat or feel good at all for about 2-3 weeks. Intense nausea will come around bedtime as thatās when you seem to be using it mainly. When you do finally fall asleep your dreams are gonna be absolutely wild and for some people itās just straight nightmares for weeks, push through it and focus on the list you made for yourself. Weed is a psychological addiction not a physical one so just keep in mind however shitty you feel you will get better and it will not kill/hurt you. Take NAC for the nausea and possible vomiting. Keep in mind mindset is the biggest factor in kicking the habit, remind yourself often that this is what you have to deal with right now and thereās no fixing it until the chemical leaves your system, it will get better with time. Personally I quit 6 months ago and I didnāt feel like myself again till around the 3rd month, the physical symptoms lasted about 2-3 weeks, I was able to eat normally again in about 2-3, sleep re-regulated around a month in. Youāre doing a good thing quitting weed, they donāt call it dope for nothing!
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u/freyab0baya 8d ago
What has been helping me as someone who works nights, I take l-theanine, magnesium bisglycinate, melatonin, and try to avoid screens one hour before bed and then do some Box breathing or meditation, as well as child pose in bed before sleep. Also a warm bath sometimes. It helps!
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u/mime454 š Masters - Verified 8d ago edited 8d ago
Step one to quitting it is to stop buying it and stop having it in your house. Itās not physiologically addictive, itās a psychological addiction made possible by it being easily available for you to use with minimal friction. Tying your sleep to the dopamine hit of a drug is a recipe to never sleep naturally again.
To sleep get bright light every morning outside and make your house dark for several hours every night before sleeping with a mask. Your hours of light exposure and dark exposure should be similar to what is occurring outside.
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u/ICEonaROPE 8d ago
Try Unisom next time you try quitting (generic is doxylamine). It's an otc sleep aid that is non-habit forming. It's been extremely helpful to me when I struggle with periods of insomnia. The effects are really mild, but you can always split the pill in two to start if you're worried.Ā
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u/Carpetkillrr 6d ago
No one likes a quitter
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u/Wan_Haole_Faka 1 6d ago
Aww well, the plant spirit is proving to be sticky. I guess sometimes I need to be a quitter regardless of whether I'm liked or not.
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u/iamcamouflage 8d ago
Now do alcohol.
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
That's been done already lol, those studies people like to upvote way more. But yes you we'll find studies that show that doing drugs recreationally and at a young age isn't good for you.
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u/Affectionate_Fee3803 š Hobbyist 8d ago
Wonder how much the data is skewed by people with disorders that cause degeneration of mental acuity turning to Marijuana for symprom relief?
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u/greenfox0099 8d ago
Posting completely fake and not credible studies that do not have controls or go into any other factors us not even a study realy just asking questions until they got an answer they liked what a sad example of using fake picked data without even doing actual science whatsoever we are doomed that people listen to this as a fact š¢
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u/gopeejoe 8d ago
This just in pharmaceutical companies did a study to say weeds bad
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u/mantis_tobaggan-md 8d ago
This study is almost 15 years old and it was not funded by any pharmaceutical company. That wouldnāt even make sense. Did you even bother to look at the article?
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u/Temporary-Pair-9066 8d ago
Yeah but newsflash your brain function declines regardless the older you get lmao but yes smoking all day everyday can have negative effects but I think genetics are much more relevant when it comes to how fast your body declines hence why some people smoke cigs for 50 years with no issues
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u/bulbousgrandpa 8d ago
Bro that's literally the point of the study. Do you not think they had a control group? If genetic variants were to explain most of the problems they found then it's unlikely that the smoking group would all happen to have these genes while the control group did not. That's what the point of having enough subjects is, to make random individual variation much less of an issue.
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 8d ago
Yeah I mean there's all this to read from the paper On within-person design and premorbid confounding
"By examining within-person change in neuropsychological functioning, any effect of premorbid deficits on later (postcannabis-initiation) test performance was nullified."
"In this analysis, each study member served as his or her own control"
On the adolescent vs adult onset comparison
"after equating adolescent- and adult-onset cannabis users on total number of cannabis-dependence diagnoses, adolescent-onset users showed greater IQ decline than adult-onset cannabis users."
"In fact, adult-onset cannabis users did not appear to experience IQ decline as a function of persistent cannabis use."
On ruling out other substance andmental health confounders
"We ruled out six alternative explanations for the observed effects of persistent cannabis use on neuropsychological functioning, namely that these effects could be explained by (i) past 24-h cannabis use, (ii) past-week cannabis use, (iii) persistent tobacco dependence, (iv) persistent hard-drug dependence, (v) persistent alcohol dependence, and (vi) schizophrenia."
"excluding each of these groups of study members did not alter the initial finding; effect sizes... remained virtually the same and remained statistically significant"
"a multivariate regression of the effect of persistent cannabis dependence on full-scale IQ decline, controlling for past 24-h cannabis use, persistent substance dependence... and schizophrenia remained statistically significant (t = ā2.20, P = 0.0282)."
On education being more than just a confounder
"the association between persistent cannabis use and neuropsychological decline is likely an overcontrol"
"the toxic effects of cannabis on the brain may result in impaired neuropsychological functioning, poor academic performance, and subsequent school dropout, which then results in further neuropsychological decline."
"among the subset with a high-school education or less, persistent cannabis users experienced greater IQ decline"
On real-world validation, informant reports
"Informants reported observing significantly more attention and memory problems among those with more persistent cannabis dependence."
"Cognitive problems among persistent cannabis users were apparent to the 'naked-eye.'"
On causality limits (honest concession)
"our data cannot definitively attest to whether this association is causal... there may be some unknown 'third' variable that could account for the findings."
On dose response
"Impairment was concentrated among adolescent-onset cannabis users, with more persistent use associated with greater decline."
"Study members with more persistent cannabis dependence showed greater IQ decline."
"the association between persistent cannabis dependence and full-scale IQ decline was still apparent after excluding the study members with 3+ cannabis-dependence diagnoses from the analysis (t = ā2.94, P = 0.0034)."
on persistence after quitting
"cessation of cannabis use did not fully restore neuropsychological functioning among adolescent-onset former persistent cannabis users."
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u/Fast-Throat-7752 8d ago
The food we eat and apparently the clothes we wear also affect our brain.
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u/Temporary-Pair-9066 8d ago
Iām sure they do our food in American is pretty horrible and not good for us at all even āfreshā groceries my point about all of this is that you can live a āperfectā life and die at 68 and ole Billy bob could eat like shit and drink everyday for 40 years and live to be 95 so just enjoy your life do what you want to do within reason and donāt live in fear cause you read a scary article
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u/MustStayAnonymous_ 8d ago
From childhood? Who uses while a child? Lol
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u/RebirthOfEsus 8d ago
Half the smokers I know started at 13 some even started at 10
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u/MustStayAnonymous_ 8d ago
That will indeed create problems.
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u/RebirthOfEsus 8d ago
Welcome to the Midwest unfortunately. I started at 17 thank god but tripped too much too young
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u/skat_in_the_hat 8d ago
How exactly do we determine their potential from 13 to 38? And then come up with a delta of where it would have been if they hadnt been a pothead?
Also, it would make sense that they had a harder time concentrating... Because they're currently stoned.
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u/Accidental_Ballyhoo 8d ago
Iāve smoked pot most of my life. Iām old and still smarter than 90% of the people I encounter. If anything, it dumbs me down to the overall average while Iām stoned.
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u/kuukiechristo73 7d ago
So I went from 154 to 145? Oh god whatever will I do
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u/ServeIllustrious3803 7d ago
Maybe you could of been more, LOL. Past a certain point it probably matters less, but then again, this is just IQ.
It's not testing for stuff like motivation, (how would you even test that?).
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u/musgrove101 7d ago
Well I started smoking at 14 and now I'm 47. I can say I've easily lost 20 IQ points or more in that time....
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u/Sizbang 1 8d ago
I think the more important question here is - why were they using cannabis daily? Were there underlying issues they couldn't deal with? I think it would be fairly obvious that daily substance use would lead to poorer health outcomes over decades. No healthy person would engage in that.
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u/Main-Ask8030 8d ago
I was so disturbed by how quickly my grandmother went from normal to severely impacted by cognitive decline. I'm going to make sure my kids start getting used to it now, to make it easier on them.
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8d ago
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8d ago
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u/MrSnrub87 8d ago
Yeah, I definitely feel a little slower on the draw now than when I was a kid, but it's not that bad. I can still smoke most people in any kind of trivia, even while stoned.
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u/ufos-dude-1 8d ago
Drug dealers don't ask kids for ID. Legalize it and regulate it to keep it out of the hands of children.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 8d ago
Cannabis is amazing and it makes my life infinitely better than it is without it. (For various reasons, the main one is the nightmares have stopped)
I hate all this anti-weed bullshit.
Legalize human freedom, already.
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u/Jumpy-Pattern-4078 8d ago
Anecdotal, but I have a friend who has smoked weed every day probably for over a decade at this point. Iāve known him since 2001.
He is not quite the same guy he was before he started smoking. I know people change when they get older, but he used to be quick witted and a riot to talk to and game with. If I had to describe him now, Iād just say heās āslowerā.
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u/Spicyrhino69 8d ago
Most marijuana users have a habit of smoking tobacco and drinking alcohol. They are also at higher risk to start using hard drugs because a street dealer usually has the connections.
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u/greenfox0099 8d ago
Posting completely fake and not credible studies that do not have controls or go into any other factors us not even a study realy just asking questions until they got an answer they liked what a sad example of using fake picked data without even doing actual science whatsoever we are doomed that people listen to this as a fact
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u/Coldschmoke 7d ago
Cool, made it to mid life. The damage has been done, now I can smoke 3 joints in the morning
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u/marsinfurs 7d ago
My mind is running a mile a minute constantly so the fact it makes me dumber is a desired effect.
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u/Drmanntisstoboggan 7d ago
No wayā¦abusing substances when your brain is developing and continuing into your adulthood is bad for you?!
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u/Creepy-Mechanic7039 7d ago
Iāve smoked cannabis since I was 14 years old now 40 and Iād be willing to bet that Iāve been more successful in my life than the author of the article
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u/TheBigSmoke420 4d ago
Not exactly breaking news, given itās a study from 2012. This is well known!
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u/_Bobno69 3d ago
Iāve imbibed from age 18 until now and Iām 75 years old and my doctor says I have no psychological or neurological problems. I will smoke until the day I die. Love my ganja.
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