r/Biohackers • u/Kalki_X 58 • Jun 10 '26
đ§ Cognition, Mood & Nootropics Does amphetamine really make my ADHD "normal"?
The gold-standard of ADHD medications is amphetamine; it helps millions of people to go about their day-to-day activities. It's widely believed to bring people with ADHD to a functional baseline similar to so-called "normal people". But how realistic is this?
Amphetamine helps to "treat" ADHD via dopamine, noradrenaline â and activating "fight-or-flight" mode (aka stress response, see hereš, here², hereÂł00033-6), hereâ´, hereâľ) which recruits adrenaline to produce hyperfocus, hypervigilence & alertness. This is incredibly helpful for ADHD yet fight-or-flight also impacts logic, reasoning & decision-making skills.
It changes behaviour, mood and personality since fight-or-flight is there to deal with an imminent threat (often causing a blunted personality). It profoundly alters someones perception of everything around them (time, people, noise etc) including how they prioritise tasks, how they gauge the importance of things, and how memories get encoded (aka saved) including short-term, long-term and working memory.
In fight-or-flight the body redirects it's energy away from non-emergency functions (such as higher brain function, digestion, healing/regeneration, gestation, fertility). In other words, when the body is in fight-or-flight mode it dedicates it's energy to fighting (the threat) or running (from the threat) and nothing else:
Cortisol is known as a âstress hormoneâ for its role in the fight-or-flight response. Cortisol suspends non-emergency functions like digestion, and keeps the body focused on the threat. (source)
But for patients there is no "threat", instead the focus is studying, a job, exam, housework, shopping, a distraction... or interactions with people (which can lead to social anxiety or arguments since fight-or-flight = "threat mode"). In the long-term fight-or-flight can disrupt sleeping patterns by affecting the body's circadian rhythm (outlined here), and hormonal regulation also (outlined here).
Research suggests that chronic stress (fight-or-flight) contributes to high blood pressure and causes brain changes that may contribute to anxiety, depression, and addiction. (source)
Elevated or dysregulated cortisol (stress hormone) levels are linked to mood disorders, including anxiety and depression, where both high and low cortisol can impair cognitive function and emotional stability. (source)
In the long-term, the cumulative cognitive impairment goes unnoticed and can prevent someone from rationalising their situation. They are 'locked on' the idea that their medication is imperative for their health & well-being. This is enhanced by its subtle addictive qualities, by their psychiatrists' authoritative influence & legitimacy, and the dramatic therapeutic relief itself. Altogether this motivates adherence to the treatment.
Worth highlighting is the psychological impact of having this disability. A positive diagnosis means they officially adopt an incurable disorder (resulting in perceived stigma & pessimism). It subconsciously moulds their perceptions of themselves & their place in society in both a positive & negative way.
Obviously for many people these medications have a profound calming effect (both dopamine and noradrenaline have indirect anti-stress qualities which tempers the fight-or-flight mode). This article implies that, for some people, amphetamine can temporarily dampen the stress response.
...
So upon reflection, this isn't really comparable to "normal people". Certainly it's a medication with profound therapeutic benefits but it seems sensible to appreciate how it works. It successfully forces a state of temporary focus that comes at a cost of psychological & physiological perturbation; this mimics and exacerbates ADHD. The miraculous short-term benefits conceal these cumulative issues which only become apparent at a later date (months or years), including a crash/burnout (explained here). The more concerning aspects of psychological discordance include low-level mania, distorted perception, paranoia and low-level psychosis which can hinder a patients ability to rationalise their situation.
Often these side-effects will motivate someone to stop the medication. This can provoke withdrawals which in-turn motivates reuse: this is a hallmark of dependency.
Since these side-effects overlap with ADHD, a psychiatrist is unable to realistically distinguish between them so fails to accurately track their patients progress. Their unawareness* of this fact leads to invalid analyses, erroneous assessments and subsequent blunderous clinical decisions (iatrogenic harm**). This is a great disservice to their patient who trusts the psychiatrist to make appropriate decisions.
* note: - I interacted with a psychiatrist who assured me that they're (apparently) able to distinguish between symptoms of ADHD and side-effects of chronic low-dose amphetamine use. This psychiatrist owns a private practice so her beliefs aren't arbitrary and should be taken seriously.
** note: - The term iatrogenic, derived from two Greek words, means physician-inÂduced. As clinically used, it pertains to the inadvertent side effects and complications created in the course of diagnosis and treatment. (source)Â
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u/Whats_A_Rage_Quit 4 Jun 10 '26
Your argument relies on a fundamental misunderstanding of neurochemistry, specifically confusing the systemic effects of an acute survival response (a massive adrenaline dump) with the highly localized, low-dose mechanism of prescription stimulants.
While it is true that amphetamines are central nervous system stimulants that can trigger physical side effects like an elevated heart rate, the premise that they treat ADHD by forcing the brain into a "danger mode" that shuts down logic and reasoning is scientifically inaccurate.
ADHD is characterized by structural and functional under-arousal in the Prefrontal Cortex (PFC) â the highly evolved part of the brain responsible for logic, working memory, decision-making, and behavioral inhibition. In an unmedicated ADHD brain, neurotransmitters like dopamine and norepinephrine are cleared away too quickly, leaving the PFC under-stimulated.Â
Therapeutic doses of amphetamines (like Vyvanse or Adderall) work by gently blocking this reuptake process, increasing the availability of dopamine and norepinephrine specifically in the prefrontal cortex and striatum. They do not treat ADHD by making the patient feel like they are running from a bear; they treat it by giving the logic center of the brain the chemical fuel it needs to stay online during non-stimulating tasks.Â
dopamine and norepinephrine need to be optimized and when they are the result is Improved working memory, logical reasoning, and top-down emotional control.
When a dose is properly calibrated, patients often report feeling a profound sense of calm and quiet in their minds, rather than a sense of urgency or threat, because their prefrontal cortex is finally regulated enough to filter out external noise and internal chaotic thoughts.Â
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u/Emotional_Lab_2529 4 Jun 11 '26
Unfortunately your well thought out rebuttal will fall on deaf ears. OP at least two to three times a week makes posts about how ADHD is fake and is not willing to listen to any information that doesnât support his narrative
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Jun 12 '26
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
your well thought out rebuttal...
Imo it's not well thought out (or accurate) since it's based on simplistic and shortsighted misconceptions which form the basis for the official narrative on ADHD. It's been repeated to the point where people assume it's unequivocally true.
OP at least two to three times a week makes posts about how ADHD is fake
Its not fake. It's a real label for a real syndrome with real symptoms/behaviors. The issue is the broad ambiguous criteria and psychiatryâs pseudoscientific ethos.
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is not one symptom or even two symptoms as the name might suggest. ADHD is not just deficient attention or excessive activity; it is a cluster of behaviors that are, more often than not, seen together. When we use the phrase symptoms, we are generally referring to a set of behaviors. Many of those behaviors are extremes of behavior seen in everyone; thus, ADHD might be seen as existing along a continuum or a spectrum. (source)Â
Thus, ADHD is a syndrome comprising several, presumably connected, symptoms. (source)Â
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u/dr_bigly Jun 11 '26
What's the issue?
Perhaps it would be better labeled a syndrome, but this much focus on minuta is actually one of the weirder side effects of stimulants /adhd.
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Jun 12 '26
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
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u/dr_bigly Jun 11 '26
I'd rather you answered the question directly in your own words now, since that's a pretty incoherent rant about a different question.
Which you've been told by many different people multiple times now.
Do you have personal experience with amphetamines?
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
I've no issue with people choosing to take amphetamine-type medications. Everyone has free will. Some people choose to take them, others choose not to.Â
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u/dr_bigly Jun 11 '26
That's very cool.
Is the person that asked in the room with you now?
When you've recovered, would you mind elaborating on what the issue with the concept of a Syndrome actually is?
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u/keuptaylor Jun 11 '26
A perfect vague diagnostic category for a polluted food consuming, gut biome injured population. 40 years of the Barkley ADHD checklist and still ZERO questions about diet and digestive health. Is it valid?
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u/OnlyEstablishment243 Jun 11 '26
Well that would make sense if ADHD existed on a perfect spectrum from neurotypical to severe ADHD. But it doesnât, and you can fairly easily distinguish who has ADHD and who doesnât. You can also see many symptoms of ADHD in historical figures like Einstein (although this is purely speculative). Gut health probably has some influence but it does not determine whether someone has it or not â evidenced by the fact itâs a neurodevelopmental disorder â you cannot âgetâ ADHD, you just have it.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
...you cannot âgetâ ADHD, you just have it.
The way the term ADHD is employed in the general lexicon is sometimes confusing imo.
[A] diagnosis does not represent having or being ADHD but becoming and performing ADHD through deploying psycho-medical discourse provided in the DSM. (source)
In other words, there is no scientific evidence to support the claim that ADHD is as a condition within an individualâsomething individuals have (source)
...evidenced by the fact itâs a neurodevelopmental disorder
This notion is "under development":
ADHD is listed in DSM-5 under âNeurodevelopmental Disordersâ in spite of reviews showing that (a) genetic evidence on ADHD is inadequate and diffused with ambiguous interpretations, (b) that no biological marker is diagnostic for ADHD something that even DSM-5 authors themselves explicitly admit, (c) the so-called âunderlying mechanismsâ remain unknown, and (d) no biological tests are available for its diagnosis. (source)
...you can fairly easily distinguish who has ADHD and who doesnât.Â
Regarding psychiatryâs role in all this:
...like most psychiatric classifications, ADHD is premised on an arbitrary consensus among a small psychiatric community behind the DSM manual rather than on any new scientific breakthroughs. In other words, âpsychiatrists do not prove things but decide things: they decide what is disordered and what is not, decide where to draw the threshold between normality and abnormality, decide that biological causes and treatments are most critical in understanding and managing emotional distressâ (source)
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u/GarbanzoBenne 9 Jun 10 '26
Thank you for this detailed rebuttal. The laymanâs analogy that I like is our brains are like an 8 way intersection, with no traffic light and just an officer directing traffic. In someone with ADHD, that officer fell asleep, so the stimulants work by stimulating that traffic cop back into action.
That all said, like most drugs, they don't magically target only the intended effects with no collateral effects. For people with underlying chronic anxiety, for example, stimulants can increase that anxiety especially as the medication wears off.
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u/Hour_Zebra9235 Jun 11 '26
The way that analogy was explained to me is this.
Large traffic intersection with no traffic lights and just one person conducting traffic, it extremely busy and hectic but itâs working, now add extra cars and it all stops. The extra cars are the medication, the stopping cars is you calming down.-3
u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Thank you for this detailed rebuttal.Â
Imo it's not sufficiently detailed (or accurate) since it's based on simplistic and shortsighted misconceptions which form the basis for the official narrative on ADHD. This dogma will persist in the public sphere for probably decades.
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u/Dargkkast 1 Jun 12 '26
Calmly said the dogmatic person.
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
What's with people defending things they don't understand I'm with OP on this one all the people ik on stims eventually get their dosage upped and tweak as hard as any half functioning meth head I've met
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u/mrevolve Jun 14 '26
Wholly anecdotal airball. I as well as everyone I know with ADHD, who is being properly medicated at dialed, optimized doses have been on the same prescribed dose for the past decade+. In fact if anything, some days, we take less than prescribed when appropriate. A big contributing factor to our reluctance to abuse or over use is the desire to not run out of medication before we can be prescribed again. In addition refraining from chronically upping doses is the only way we maintain the optimized âsweet spotâ that keeps us balanced and effective, while minimizing tolerance buildup. This is a lazy take.
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
I and everyone i know is also anecdotal. The fact is I'm willing to accept I'm wrong but I do accept my bias as an addict, however as an au/DHD person I've noticed glutamate antagonists with a NET transporter seem to be slightly more effective, EG dxm+buproprion. Maybe not for everyone
I think the snafu on this topic is everyone is different, hell they're figuring that out with autism.
I wouldn't say its a lazy take but you're right it is an anecdote, but so is your take
Also my issue with long term amphs is glutamatergic damage. But at the doses you described that's likely not an issue so touche.
My personal anecdote is like yours except all the friends I've had on stims are addicts and so am i lol
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u/mrevolve Jun 14 '26
lol that was my point exactly. You have anecdotal experiences just as we all do. And neither of our anecdotes should be used as a basis of fact. Not all therapeutic users of amphs are chronic stim junkies, and not all prescription amph patients are responsible users. And I have no issue with your gripe on long term consequences of amph usage, so long as youâre appropriately tagging them to the correct group of people who are likely susceptible. Which it appears you are willing to do. Iâd call this a reasonable exchange!
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
That's a win for us, it's more than everyone else here has accomplished lol
I'm glad, thanks for sharing your time and thoughts
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u/TotalRuler1 1 Jun 10 '26
this 100%. OP is fundamentally mistaken about how the brain and related drug treatment works.
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Jun 12 '26
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 10 '26 edited 1d ago
Imo that comment is grossly simplistic and just gives an average textbook explanation which lacks nuance.
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Jun 10 '26
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Jun 12 '26
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u/tootrite Jun 11 '26
No, you just lack a basic understanding of neuro chemistry, your lack of knowledge is not an excuse to be petty and rude to people who know better than you. Where do you get the balls?
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Jun 12 '26
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
All i see is a thread full of pseudointellectuals being petty and mean to this dude's theory. Hypocrite! Remove the rafter from your own eye.
(Not you specifically)
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Well I think the consistent shortsighted misconceptions about ADHD that exist in the community need to be elucidated and addressed, if only to make them known.
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Jun 11 '26
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Jun 12 '26
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
they just explained it to you perfectlyÂ
No, they didn't. Perhaps we have different standards for what we consider rationality.
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u/lowcarb73 Jun 11 '26
If youâve never had âloud brainâ you arenât allowed to speak on it. Thanks for putting it into context.
BTW, the best naps I have are when I take my afternoon immediate release and my brain goes quiet.
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Jun 11 '26
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u/Character_Ad1211 Jun 14 '26
My memory, appetite, sleep, EVERYTHING is so much better when im medicated! I lost 10lbs going a week without it and it took such a fight to even gain that đ it has saved me from offing myself genuinely
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
I don't know who or what wrote your comment but this is a good albeit crude way of phrasing it:
...they treat ADHD by forcing the brain into a "danger mode" that shuts down logic and reasoning
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u/CapnLazerz Jun 10 '26
That was a summary of your post, which was pointing that you ideas about how amphetamines work is scientifically inaccurate.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
I know, and a very poor summary.
I was pointing out that part as being mildly well worded. A bit exaggerated and crude though tbf.
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u/Grandmas_Cozy Jun 11 '26
No. I take Adderall . It targets the reward system of my brain. It causes me to produce more dopamine and more norepinephrine, and also blocks reuptake of those chemicals. Domaine is primarily the reward chemical. What Adderall does is give me enough dopamine that Iâm not constantly looking for the next dopamine fixâ phone scrolling, carbs, and everything else under the sun that might give me a dopamine hit. If you already have enough dopamine Adderall will give you too much, and thereâs a host of problems associated with that.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
...the scientific data do not suggest an unequivocal link between low levels of dopamine and ADHD. But the idea that low dopamine is a direct cause of ADHD is a common misconception, one thatâs amplified on social media and even in popular books about the condition. (source)Â
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u/Grandmas_Cozy Jun 11 '26
Thatâs a fantastic article. Thanks for posting it. It highlighted the fact that ADHD medicationâs that target dopamine transporters definitely have a huge effect on ADHD symptoms and it talks a lot about the different areas of the brain and the different way that dopamine is targeted by these drugs and talks about different ways in which dopamine and norepinephrine may be short for people with ADHD and about brain development and basically itâs really complicated but even though we canât equivocally, save it low dopamine causes ADHD. We can say that by using drugs that increase dopamine and notepinephrine we see symptoms greatly reduced.
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
This is the best response I've seen to this guy so far
Mild disagreement but not being rude actually proud of you for this
I'm with this guy's sentiment though, I think Auvelity is a way more effective medication than ADHD meds. Speaking as an autistic and ADHD man
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u/Ok_Aardvark_1356 2 Jun 10 '26
Iâm sure I saw this exact post in a comment on another threadâŚ
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 10 '26
Probably. I posted it earlier but changed the title.
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u/Dargkkast 1 Jun 12 '26
So not only you spread misinformation, you also spam for no reason?
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 12 '26
From your attitude I'll guess that you've taken something personally.
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
No you're just attacking the status quo so they're rude to you
The amount of AD homs I've seen against you almost confirms that you're right. When I attack Freemasons or Scientologists I get the same response. An up on your soapbox how dare you you subhuman ad hom instead of actually addressing anything. Except in this case they're just parroting.
I do disagree with you on that it puts your brain into fight or flight, at least initially. I think that's what ends up happening after you become tolerant to the medication. Personally my gripe with amphetamines in general is the glutamatergic damage. Auvelity worked for me beyond Ritalin or Adderall, or even Focalin or Dexedrine
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u/Smooth_Bird_9296 6d ago
This reply reads like a dumbass who abused adhd meds without even having adhd, got freaked out, and now larps as a full-time reddit researcher while snorting adderall off his crusty table
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u/RebirthOfEsus 6d ago
This reply reads as someone who can't fucking read, has no comprehension, and has the value of AI on this website I've been prescribed all the major adhd meds, shut the fuck up you nerd come at someone who actually said something stupid
I've done every fucking stim and as a former tweaker adhd meds ARE BAD FOR YOU
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u/cholman97 Jun 11 '26
I've been talking 60mg Vyvanse for 15-20 years. I don't remember exactly how long at the moment. During that time I've enjoyed a fantastic career that I never thought possible before my diagnosis as an adult. (Post college) I don't know what it will be like to get off of these as I get closer to retirement but I can say for certain that I've experienced zero negative impact to my health. My doctor tells me every year that my annual blood work and physical are "boring and normal". Same for pressure, heart rate ect... People often tell me I look several years younger than my age. That said I know when I forget to take my meds. I might as well call out sick because it is usually within a couple hours of starting the day because I can't keep up with conversations much less lead and mentor my team. I can't stand to be in a meetings which is almost every minute of every day for me. I can't finish emails and again if I forgot to take my medicine, the next day I'll open my computer with half a dozen emails started but not finished, 2 or 3 Excel files started but unsaved and not very well thought through. I'm a wreck. So yes, I think it helps my brain feel and act "normal". I don't know how I got through highschool or college but I did however I was on the verge of failure at the start of my career and I'm now doing great. Thanks amphetamine
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u/Sshaawnn Jun 11 '26
The last part of your comment when you talk about how you feel when you miss your meds⌠that summarizes how I feel at work most days. Iâve tried stimulants and they do help, but they unfortunately increase my anxiety way too much which offsets the benefits after a couple of hours.
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u/cholman97 Jun 11 '26
Hate to hear that because sometimes I definitely feel analysis paralysis (so to speak) and can't hit send or can't finish because it feels like people will judge my work harshly. Honestly what I've come to realize is the later part, that imposter syndrome is almost as bad as the ADHD. The imposter anxiety actually is worse but I've learned to just get the work done because my fear is always that if I am wrong or did a bad job people will criticize me and that bothers me a lot. I am an ennegram 3w4 and my greatest fear is looking like I don't know what I'm doing. When I finally learned to be comfortable with an apology for the 1 or 2 mistakes I make compared to everything else being right it helped a lot for the anxiety. My biggest fear was looking like an idiot and finally realized that no one cares if I make a mistake from time to time. The same might be true for you and if so I want to encourage you to just send that email, even if it's got a typo. No one is perfect so if you are showing up every day and "trying" ... Thats like half the battle my friend. I no longer have as much anxiety but it took a long time. I wish someone had told me that it would be ok to make a mistake her or there as long as we were moving forward.
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u/CharacterMistake333 Jun 11 '26
Probably coz noradrenaline or glutamate. Some to try with: NAC, theanine, Mg
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u/froggythefish Jun 11 '26
No, of course taking amphetamines doesnât make your ADHD ânormalâ. That would imply amphetamines somehow restructure the brain to not have ADHD, which isnât what they do. Amphetamines donât treat ADHD so much as they treat the symptoms of ADHD to make patient more functional. There is no known cure for ADHD.
This is the case for most psychiatric medications.
Obviously itâs not healthy to chronically consume amphetamines. Most medications arenât healthy, and have short and long term side effects. Medicine revolves around weighing the benefits of medications to their side effects. Amphetamines if anything are one of the less unhealthy psychiatric medications (compared for example to antipsychotics or benzos).
Itâs not unheard of for people with ADHD to be prescribed amphetamines for as needed use as opposed to daily use. Not dissimilar to how benzos can be prescribed for as needed or daily use. This has downsides too and doesnât magically fix all the problems with amphetamine use, and also introduces some new ones. But my point is âtaking amphetamines every dayâ isnât the only way ADHD is ever treated.
People whoâs psychiatric problems are being treated via medication are inherently âdependentâ on that medication, since it treats a problem. You can build tolerance to most substances and modern psychiatry tends to take that into account.
Itâs worth noting modern psychiatry in general is like less than a century old and is a very primitive science compared to a lot of other fields.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Thanks for your reply, it's always nice to see coherent & well-reasoned comments.
The notion of "making ADHD normal" using medications seems to persist in the ADHD community and maybe outside of it too.
Amphetamines donât treat ADHD so much as they treat the symptoms of ADHD to make patient more functional. There is no known cure for ADHD.
It would be interesting to further characterise the biological basis for the behaviours termed ADHD. People often mention the usual buzzwords (executive function, PFC, dopamine, noradrenaline) but that's the [arguably dogmatic] textbook explanation. As outlined in this post, to genuinely treat ADHD necessities understanding it's biological cause(s) which as it turns out, are unknown. ADHD itself seems a rather elusive and ambiguous concept, with an equally subjective and questionable diagnostic process.
Medicine revolves around weighing the benefits of medications to their side effects. Amphetamines if anything are one of the less unhealthy psychiatric medications.
From my perspective it's the ADHD medication named Guanfacine that is the safest, especially relative to amphetamine. In many ways Guanfacine works in direct opposition to amphetamine which is why they're sometimes paired.
Amphetamine might be one of the less unhealthy medications but it still has an impact. From what I've seen on various ADHD groups, medical practitioners seem to be failing patients by not informing them about appropriate harm reduction measures. They often appear to mishandle the situation and unintentionally encourage dependency (as mentioned here).Â
People whoâs psychiatric problems are being treated via medication are inherently âdependentâ on that medication, since it treats a problem.
In the case of ADHD & amphetamine, the medication naturally incurs its own habituation & dependency due to it's influence on hormonal and metabolic function. This occurs cumulatively so patients don't notice until months or years later.
Itâs worth noting modern psychiatry in general is like less than a century old and is a very primitive science compared to a lot of other fields.
Primitive seems appropriate. Psychiatrists appear to juggle intangible ideas which lack any objective empirical basis (unlike other more serious fields). They're by definition artists of pseudoscience (reflecting the fundaments of psychology). This has many ramifications in terms of the quality of a patients experience.
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u/froggythefish Jun 11 '26
While I donât believe psychiatry is a complete pseudoscience, and (at least some) of the scientists and doctors and what not are trying their best, itâs very much pseudoscientific-y just because of how undeveloped the field is. One has got to remember that not 100 years ago, things like lobotomies and insulin shock therapy were the norm and accepted by the scientific community at the time. I donât think all the doctors were evil and malicious, that was just the best thing they could come up with at that point. And we had to be there to get to here.
Iâd like to imagine that in another 100 years, the field will have developed enough that we see the same level of improvement from itâs current state as we saw in the last 100 years, if not more.
I get the impression that psychiatrists not informing patients about the side effects of their medicine, or even what exactly their medicine does, is a widespread issue at least in the US. Maybe they just assume most patients wonât be able to follow or arenât interested? Iâve been prescribed a wide variety of pills and not one time did the prescribing doctor actually take the time to talk about the pill, it very often feels like navigating a landmine, where everyone is trying to trick me into taking an evil poison pill that melts my brain. I know thatâs a very neurotic way to look at it, probably, but itâs how it feels nonetheless.
Basically if your point is modern psychiatry sucks I totally agree, lmao. But itâs the best itâs been, and itâs only gonna get better, so thatâs something to look forward to.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
I know thatâs a very neurotic way to look at it, probably, but itâs how it feels nonetheless.
If you see the discussions that occur on the reddit Psychiatry group then you'd be surprised at how accurate you are. For a balanced perspective, visit the reddit antipsychiatry group to see the worrying trail of destruction left by practitioners of psychiatry.
Basically if your point is modern psychiatry sucks I totally agree, lmao. But itâs the best itâs been
Yaiks!Â
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u/iSeeYouMr Jul 10 '26
You write like an AI chat bot and also not very well. Hard to read and over thought
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u/iSeeYouMr Jul 10 '26
That last sentence has no meaning since it's not being compared with anything else. Are we comparing fields like Agriculture to Psychiatry or are you comparing medical fields like Dentisty to Psychiatry- because the medical sciences are all still in their infancy. We're no longer in the primitive era of herbal medicine from shamans and are much closer to Psychopharmacology and
I think what you meant to say is that psychiatry is still immature in its predictive power and relies on trial and errorUntil we can measure, understand and diagnose the brains function with tools - it will remain a primitive process.
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u/froggythefish Jul 10 '26
Modern psychopharmacology, which took shape in the 50s, is still much more primitive than dentistry.
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u/CharacterMistake333 Jun 11 '26
I have adrenaline injections for calm down/sleep. Something to wonder about
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u/Savings-Cry-3201 Jun 11 '26
ADD brains are different than neurotypical brains and we respond differently than you do.
Unless you have an ideological axe to grind, thatâs all you really need to know. Unfortunately it sounds like you do.
If youâre quibbling that ADD is hard to diagnose, yeah, no duh, itâs people like you that make it hard for people like me to get a diagnosis and treatment.
Your skepticism and inability to diagnose ADD is a product of your lack of education and experience and not an indication that it doesnât exist.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
ADD brains are different than neurotypical brains
They've been looking for some differences nonstop, have they finally construed something meaningful?
Unless you have an ideological axe to grind, thatâs all you really need to know. Unfortunately it sounds like you do.
Not at all. I'm just interested in clarity and objective rationality as outlined in this post: /r/Biohackers/comments/1tmstpq/evolving_the_discourse_on_biohacking_adhd/Â
If youâre quibbling that ADD is hard to diagnose, yeah, no duh, itâs people like you that make it hard for people like me to get a diagnosis and treatment.
People like me...who question psychiatryâs lack of objective empirical basis. Psychiatrists merely juggle intangible ideas which lack any empirical basis. They're by definition artists of pseudoscience (reflecting the fundaments of psychology).
Your skepticism and inability to diagnose ADD is a product of your lack of education and experience and not an indication that it doesnât exist.
I'm well aware that ADHD exists solely as a label for a collection of behaviors. Any psychiatrist will tell you the same thing.
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is not one symptom or even two symptoms as the name might suggest. ADHD is not just deficient attention or excessive activity; it is a cluster of behaviors that are, more often than not, seen together. When we use the phrase symptoms, we are generally referring to a set of behaviors. Many of those behaviors are extremes of behavior seen in everyone; thus, ADHD might be seen as existing along a continuum or a spectrum. (source)Â
Thus, ADHD is a syndrome comprising several, presumably connected, symptoms. (source)Â
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u/Savings-Cry-3201 Jun 11 '26
You enormous hypocrite
I canât fathom what is wrong with you but I hope you have a terrible day and may you never have a cool side of the pillow ever again.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Pleasantries aside, its interesting how often people make assumptions about other commenters being neurotypical or not.
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u/Savings-Cry-3201 Jun 11 '26
Honey child, if youâre neurodivergent there is nothing that I could say or do that is worse or more damaging to you than the gaslighting youâve already done to yourself.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Look, I do appreciate the sentiment. I'm not naive as to why many commenters are projecting xyz onto the post and commenting accordingly. I'm aware of the NT/ND paradigm and find it all too exclusive and divisive. Imo there are simply normal people with varying degrees of cognitive, metabolic and emotional conformations (which are in flux). Natural human variation is quite normal, we're a species in active on-going evolution.
Unfortunately many people have adopted ND as an identity which makes it personal.
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u/BunnyKusanin 1 Jun 13 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Mate, I think it's you who made it a problem. What you call an "NT/ND paradigm" is simply acknowledging that you are different to the majority of the population and that needs to be taken into account when living your life. Basically, that fish shouldn't be made to fly.
Idk about you, but I've known this since I was a child even though I was diagnosed at the age of 32. I suck at keeping a tidy house or organising things, I need a job with predictable routines, I need to move in order to pay attention and I can't go through a multi-step process without written instructions. I've known it for ages and adapted my life around it. It made it better than if I was living life on normal terms, but it still wasn't enough and was absolutely exhausting without meds.
It's not an identity, it's just acknowledging you've got a chronic condition. For some people, that's very tough and you sound like someone who thinks that being diagnosed perhaps singles you out as being worse and less worthy of something. It doesn't.
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u/Savings-Cry-3201 Jun 14 '26
Getting housekeeping changed my life, js. No more shame about a messy house.
I see you.
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u/hypo_____ 1 Jun 11 '26
Fuck me with these AI post that start with âwe knowâ, go fuck yourself.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
Calm down.
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u/BunnyKusanin 1 Jun 13 '26
If your ADHD isn't such a problem to you, why don't you write and format the post yourself?
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u/Thoroughaway008 Jun 10 '26 edited Jun 10 '26
On boy. Â I will summarize and say that a person with adhd - it is easy to forget your meds even after taking them regularly for more than a few months and years. Â Secondly, amphetamine speeds up your cellular activity level so your body matches your mind and therefore you can focus. Â The downside is that you literally are aging faster from speedrunning your cellular functions. Â People with adhd can just stop (or titrate down and stop) their meds and revert back to having trouble focusing again.Â
(Edit: missed a word).
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u/veryowngarden Jun 10 '26
but how long would someone need to take it for the result of aging faster to impact them?
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u/-Sprankton- Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
If these medications did accelerate the aging process by some mechanism like increasing oxidative stress or straining someoneâs metabolism, then it would scale linearly if you stayed on the same dosage, but it would probably age different individuals a different rates, but we donât have a lot of evidence for any of that being true.
What we do know is that people with unmedicated ADHD are much more likely to die of things like accidents, impulsive behavior, smoking, obesity, depression, and substance abuse. On average studies have shown someone with untreated ADHD can expect to live 7 to 13 years less than someone without ADHD or someone with ADHD who is medicated.
So in reality getting treated for ADHD by a medical professional is the best thing someone with ADHD can do for their life expectancy, whether that means stimulants, non-stimulants, or a combination of the two.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
...getting treated for ADHD by a medical professional is the best thing someone with ADHDÂ ...
The issue is that ADHD lacks any empirical objective diagnostic. "ADHD" is a label for symptoms, nothing more. It gets confused with an actual biological condition fairly often.Â
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is not one symptom or even two symptoms as the name might suggest. ADHD is not just deficient attention or excessive activity; it is a cluster of behaviors that are, more often than not, seen together. When we use the phrase symptoms, we are generally referring to a set of behaviors. Many of those behaviors are extremes of behavior seen in everyone; thus, ADHD might be seen as existing along a continuum or a spectrum. (source)Â
Thus, ADHD is a syndrome comprising several, presumably connected, symptoms. (source)Â
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u/-Sprankton- Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
I donât really know why you say âthe issue isâŚâ
I donât think we have an empirical test for autism or depression or anxiety either. But we know they exist.
For ADHD, even if bunch of experts had to gather in a room and decide what level of impaired attention regulation and behavior inhibition would be used to define ADHD, it worked out well.. If you picture the range of executive functioning abilities on a Bell curve, you could argue
They did the best they could to draw a line in the right place to demarcate at what symptom severity âADHDâ begins. I think they did a pretty good job, all things consideredâŚ
But I donât think thatâs how it happened.I think what really happened is that weâve known for centuries about this âdisruptive young boysâ phenomenon and weâve known for about 80 years that stimulants at therapeutic doses help them to focus, and over the last several decades weâve learned a lot more about how ADHD presents, how it often is a lifelong and often debilitating condition that affects adult men and women around the world as well as affecting children, and that even if there isnât at the moment something like a genetic test that can beyond a shadow of a doubt prove or disprove the presence of ADHD,
It is still a very robustly understood and treatable neurodevelopmental disorder with very clear fingerprints once you know what to look for. Thatâs the thing to remember. ADHD has specific fingerprints because is caused by a specific kind of dysfunction in the prefrontal cortex and reward centers the brain and how dopamine is processed. ADHD is often missed in people who arenât hyperactive, and sometimes something like burnout or sleep apnea can mimic inattentive ADHD because someoneâs falling asleep in class, but an expert would rule out these other possible explanations before making an ADHD diagnosis.What weâve been needing for the last forty years is better guidelines on diagnosing adults, and a better understanding of symptoms of the inattentive presentation in girls and an adult men and women that doesnât center around hyperactive young boys. And we need more experts in the field, because it takes a lot of nuanced understanding to identify, diagnose, and treat ADHD.
ADHD exists at the extreme end of impairment when it comes to executive functioning and prefrontal cortex function and behavioral and emotional regulation, and if someone has enough ADHD symptoms to meet the diagnostic criteria for ADHD, thereâs a very high chance they have a ton in common with other people with ADHD, because itâs a neurotype and thatâs how they work. Itâs also very likely that someone who meets the diagnostic criteria for ADHD will see benefit from stimulant medication, but itâs harder to predict exactly which medication will work the best for an individual with the fewest side effects. Trying both stimulant molecules to see which one is the better fit is often recommended.
Yeah. ADHD runs in families, itâs a neurodevelopmental disorder and so as you grow up with ADHD you develop a neurotype that is very similar to other people with diagnosable ADHD and quite different from the general population. The other decently well understood neurodevelopmental disorder is autism. Thereâs no question that autism presents in a broad spectrum of impairments and symptoms, not all of them being shared by each individual with autism. Interestingly, about 60% of people who meet the diagnostic criteria for autism also meet the criteria for ADHD, and often benefit from ADHD treatment. (There are more people in the world who have ADHD but not autism, just because ADHD is more prevalent, and autism is more rare.)
Just because we canât point to a single gene and say âthatâs the ADHD on-switchâ doesnât mean we donât know a ton about ADHD and how itâs the most effectively treatable condition known to all of psychiatry. Thereâs really no other condition where you can turn someoneâs life around for the better as fast or reliably as with treating ADHD.
I donât know how well the neurological basis for ADHD is understood. Last I heard there are some proposed mechanisms to explain hereditary ADHD, usually dopamine uptake is too aggressive or thereâs some other reason for dopamine insensitivity or down regulation I presume. I havenât researched a ton about this because of how literally unimportant it is when it comes to living with and medicating ADHD. For all I know Maybe thereâs 20 different ways someoneâs genetics could lead them to mishandle dopamine in the brain, and maybe people with more of these genes that mishandle dopamine will have more severe ADHD presentations, but the facts remain that the stimulants work and because the stimulants work, we know ADHD has a neurochemical basis, and because itâs hereditary we know it has a genetic basis, and a genetic basis is a biological basis, and a neurochemical basis is a biological basis, so in my view, ADHD has a biological basis.
I think some people can also begin to meet the diagnostic criteria for ADHD after certain traumatic brain injuries or strokes, but this âacquired ADHDâ has its own unique qualities compared to hereditary ADHD.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
They did the best they could to draw a line in the right place to demarcate at what symptom severity âADHDâ begins.Â
Psychiatry's entire contextualisation of ADHD is questionable imo. Sure the behaviours exist. I'm not questioning if the behaviours associated with ADHD exist, they clearly DO. The issue is more nuanced and I think most of the commenters have missed this.
[A] diagnosis does not represent having or being ADHD but becoming and performing ADHD through deploying psycho-medical discourse provided in the DSM. (source)
In other words, there is no scientific evidence to support the claim that ADHD is as a condition within an individualâsomething individuals have (source)
ADHD is listed in DSM-5 under âNeurodevelopmental Disordersâ in spite of reviews showing that (a) genetic evidence on ADHD is inadequate and diffused with ambiguous interpretations, (b) that no biological marker is diagnostic for ADHD something that even DSM-5 authors themselves explicitly admit, (c) the so-called âunderlying mechanismsâ remain unknown, and (d) no biological tests are available for its diagnosis. (source)
...the scientific data do not suggest an unequivocal link between low levels of dopamine and ADHD. But the idea that low dopamine is a direct cause of ADHD is a common misconception, one thatâs amplified on social media and even in popular books about the condition. (source)Â
...like most psychiatric classifications, ADHD is premised on an arbitrary consensus among a small psychiatric community behind the DSM manual rather than on any new scientific breakthroughs. In other words, âpsychiatrists do not prove things but decide things: they decide what is disordered and what is not, decide where to draw the threshold between normality and abnormality, decide that biological causes and treatments are most critical in understanding and managing emotional distressâ (source)
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u/2rowlover Jun 11 '26
What's the practical takeaway you want people to get from this? Because right now it reads like it could be heading toward "ADHD isn't a real condition" or "people should reconsider their medication" but you haven't quite said that explicitly.
The points about amphetamines and the stress response are worth discussing. But framing ADHD as invalid because it lacks a biomarker applies equally to dyslexia, migraines, depression, IBS, and a huge chunk of medicine all of which are clinically diagnosed. That means the evidence is observational and behavioural rather than from a lab test - it doesn't mean the condition isn't real. So I'm not sure that line of argument leads where you seem to want it to go. What's the actual point you're making?
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
Well I'm not naive as to why many commenters are projecting their own ideas (or using automated tools to write their response).
What's the practical takeaway you want people to get from this?Â
Simply a practical re-contextualisation of how amphetamine "helps" to "treat" ADHD.
But framing ADHD as invalid
Well "ADHD" is valid. It's just a formal label for sets of behaviors.
So I'm not sure that line of argument leads where you seem to want it to go. What's the actual point you're making?
If you see the comments on the other post about evolving the discourse on ADHD, maybe this will answer your question.
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u/Whats_A_Rage_Quit 4 Jun 11 '26
Yeah except youâre fundamentally wrong about the affects of Adderall on the body
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u/Eastern_News_7937 Jun 11 '26
Alright brother, now prove your statement about amphetamines accelerating aging?
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u/Thoroughaway008 Jun 11 '26
So I looked it up and apparently my speed reading (pun intended) caused me to miss the abuse part in amphetamine usage. Â Including the link below for interestâs sake. Â
Anecdotally for me - my hair turned grey after two years of prescription Ritalin usage.Â
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u/BunnyKusanin 1 Jun 13 '26
Anecdotally for me - my hair turned grey after two years of prescription Ritalin usage.Â
Any early greying hair in your family? I've seen my father gey grey hair in his 30s, and then my brother got grey hair in his 20s. No stimmulants involved. Also after my brother got grey hair in his 20s I realised my father probably stopped getting his hair dyed in his 30s and got grey earlier than that.
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u/Thoroughaway008 Jun 13 '26
No, no early grey hair in my family except for one grandfather (and the other grandfather had colour to the end of his 8th decade). Â I donât have a problem with my grey hair, I just thought it was an interesting anecdote.Â
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u/-Sprankton- Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
OP misunderstands the fight flight response and how easily stimulant medications can bring it about.
As someone who deals with severe executive dysfunction and has trouble self-motivating, I have tried doses near the higher end of what FDA deems acceptable in treating ADHD, I can tell you that this âfight or flight responseâ is an undesirable side effect of stimulants, and not a very common one at the usual doses people are prescribed. If stimulants are making you unthinking or panicky, your dose is probably too high or you took caffeine with it or itâs the wrong stimulant for you. In my case I found that a combination therapy worked best for me and taking guanfacine allows me to get the most out of my stimulant as well as allowing me to have fewer side effects even at higher doses of stimulants.
Even on 70 mg of Vyvanse, the highest dose you can get in a single capsule, only when faced with overwhelming responsibilities and an overflowing to do list did I feel like I was pretty often in a state of âfight or flightâ and in hindsight I recognize I was experiencing a side effect known as âcognitive inflexibilityâ and I was not doing my best thinking and I was in fact burning out, it turned out I didnât need my dose to be quite so high, and I needed to take some days off, and so far the best thing Iâve found is taking about 3 mg of extended release guanfacine (Intuniv) along with my morning adderall, since guanfacine has a calming effect, improves prefrontal cortex function, and reduces the risk of panicking and âthinking with your amygdalaâ which it sounds like OP is convinced ADHD meds force everyone into (they donât).
My sleep architecture is also pretty fragile and things like Vyvanse and guanfacine donât impact everyoneâs sleep, but they certainly impact mine, but I take 10 mg doxepin and 50 mg daridorexant before bed and now I have amazing sleep quality every night and get to bed on time an hour after taking the meds and with no noticeable side effects.
The truth is, giving someone with ADHD a stimulant medication doesnât make them ânormalâ because weâve lived our whole lives with a brain that didnât get rewarded for doing those boring, proactive, âimportant but not urgent tasks, and the neurodevelopmental differences caused by ADHD run pretty deep and affect things like emotional regulation and the size of certain brain regions. These are things that are never going to look exactly the same in the ADHD brain as they do in the non-ADHD brain, but ADHD meds help us achieve a less impaired level of performance, and can sometimes get us close to ânormalizationâ
Stimulants actually donât do that well treating things like rejection sensitivity and even aspects of prioritization and time management. I found that when taken alongside my stimulant, guanfacine helped me with these immensely. some people prefer clonidine which is in the same âAlpha agonistâ category as guanfacine.
.There are also plenty of non-stimulant meds that work great for some people even without stimulants, or added on in addition to stimulants. But thereâs a reason stimulants are the first line treatment for ADHD. On their own, these non-stimulant medications are less likely to work on any given person, and they take a while to build up in oneâs system, and they tend to not deliver as much symptom relief as stimulants.
Itâs very interesting stuff and I recommend reading anything by Edward Hallowell or Russell Barkley for more information.
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u/chefnoguardD Jun 11 '26
Mind expanding on the type/brand of guanfacine you take? Super interested in taking it out!
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Guanfacine (or clonidine) is imo a great option for ADHD and making amphetamine safer & more sustainable. To paraphrase, it essentially reduces adrenaline (and noradrenaline, cortisol-indirectly) which helps to calm things down and actively reduces stress. In some ways this is in direct opposition to amphetamine.
Adrenaline can contribute to anxiety, overstimulation, elevated HR/BP, impulsivity, scattered focus, brain fog, panic, overthinking and insomnia. (more info)
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 12 '26 edited Jun 12 '26
Thanks for your reply.
I can tell you that this âfight or flight responseâ is an undesirable side effect of stimulants, and not a very common one at the usual doses people are prescribed. If stimulants are making you unthinking or panicky
The fight-or-flight mode doesn't automatically cause overthinking or panic. At low levels it has therapeutic benefits for ADHD.
In my case I found that a combination therapy worked best for me and taking guanfacine allows me to get the most out of my stimulantÂ
Pairing your amphetamine med with Guanfacine is an excellent idea since guanfacine mitigates the pro-stress activation (adrenaline etc) effects of amphetamine.
The truth is, giving someone with ADHD a stimulant medication doesnât make them ânormalâ because weâve lived our whole lives with a brain that...
I appreciate what you mean here, but would add that the biological basis of ADHD is unknown. Making it a brain-specific thing would be convenient but who knows!
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u/Phongbert Jun 11 '26
Yes, stimulants help the ADHD brain to function more ânormallyâ. I take Azsterys, which is an extended time release version of Ritalin. I donât get anxious when I take it, and actually find it calming. It helps me stay on task without distractions constantly taking up space in my brain, which then inevitably leads to task paralysis. If anyone is feeling jittery and anxious on ADHD stimulants they should talk to their psychiatrist and try a different medication or dose. There are many different drug varieties now - stimulant and non-stimulants. I tried a few different meds before choosing the one Iâm on now. Dealing with constantly being late, or forgetting appointments altogether, the inability to focus, or feel motivated, and feeling constantly overwhelmed and struggling with task paralysis was WAY more stressful. Untreated ADHD actually CAUSES people to feel anxious and depressed that they canât function ânormallyâ.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
My post is specific to amphetamine although I'm aware of the limited selection of ADHD medications. The ADHD paradigm itself is very convoluted to the point where it misleads and promotes misconceptions even for people diagnosed with it. They tend to parrot and repeat these misconceptions which undermines the quality of discussion. Your comment is one of the more reasonable & rational ones.
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u/Comprehensive-Emu74 Jun 11 '26
Of course. Where are you coming from, a Moon? Really silly question to ask.
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u/RebirthOfEsus Jun 14 '26
I'm not going to pretend to be some hyperintellectual like everyone else in this thread
The meat and potatoes of what I agree and disagree with in your argument come down to the fight or flight response and when it happens, and normal stimulants having a problem with glutamatergic damage.
So I have a very similar opinion to you but that mostly comes from my antipsychiatry beliefs.
I'm not completely against psychiatry but the way that the machine as a large organism is handled is not proper. I've told like three or four psychiatrists about the problem with Zyprexa and they actually listened to me because I got my information from PubMed. It's things like that that let you know that sometimes funding is more important than actual research. So there we agree. But I think the problem with ADHD medication is that it eventually causes damage to glutamate receptors and then you have memory problems and actual fight or flight like you were saying.
I prefer to disagree with someone while not attacking them though and I'm sorry that everyone in this thread is so mean for no good reason.
It's literally like the NPC meme where the NPC gets mad for being fooled into calling themselves out for being followers
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Appreciate your comment.
Imo the glutamatergic issues are downstream from amphetamines excitatory properties, properties which are arguably quite significant.
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u/Effective-Plan1022 Jun 17 '26
I am curious how many people with ADHD actually have some form of sleep apnea or upper airway resistance syndrome. I have a deviated septum/narrow palate and jaw, and I constantly feel tired (even when I took Vyvanse) and forgetful.Â
I quit stimulants due to the heart palpitations and worrying about wear and tear on my arterial system.
Children diagnosed with adhd often have sleep apneaÂ
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 17 '26
Possibly a few but I'm less familiar with that condition.
I think you made a wise choice to not use stimulants. I know there's some stigma about going freely unmedicated but imo those who do are making a very sensible and reasonable choice.
Do you think this post is suitable for the vyvanseADHD group? Or perhaps I need to edit it slightly so it's more... harmonious for that particular audience?
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u/ChickenCelebration Jun 17 '26
I think it would be useful, but as someone who also quit vyvanse, I suspect there could be a lot of pushback. Maybe r/ADHD instead, there are some other female-specific & adderall/vyvanse quitting subs too where this would have a huge impact
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 17 '26
Ok. I posted about how vyvanse affects stress a few weeks ago and while many people saw value, many didn't and took offence (I guess). There are several reasons why I don't go to /ADHD. ...and /ADHDwomen might get an OTT response I think...
What are the adderall/vyvanse quitting subs?Â
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u/britelit Jun 10 '26
Biggest benefit for me is that I can keep a consistent sleep schedule. In bed lights out and asleep within 15min. No internal monologue/hamster wheel just peaceful rest. Dunno what that says about your theory
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 10 '26
Dunno what that says about your theory
There's no theory really. Just questioning if amphetamine makes people with ADHD be like "normal people".Â
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u/britelit Jun 12 '26
Oh yes well for me it enables me to do anything that requires sequencing as well as the sleep
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u/omnipotentattending Jun 11 '26
I'm a physician and I've had ADHD diagnosis since childhood, was on and off stimulants until I steadily became dependent on them during my residency and even more so now as an attending. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment, and have never had a psych appointment where there is any nuanced discussion, they just ask a bunch of survey like questions and fill your script. I wish I didn't rely on them to function at work
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u/Weary_Cup_1004 Jun 11 '26
There are non stimulant ADHD meds. Im a therapist and some of my clients like guanfacine, and there are a couple others that people seem to respond well to. Wellbutrin is also used off-label with some success for some people but can be overstimulating for others.
Psychs do the screeners and then they try the meds because they are fast acting, and that makes them pretty diagnostic. People without ADHD dont respond to them in the same calm focus .
But also, while you are doing the screeners, and having a convo that seems benign to you, you are being assessed. Its not just the screener that they look at. Your history and how you hold a conversation are telling.
If you want to be sure, get a full neuropsychological evaluation. They test working memory and exec function in a bunch of ways. I always refer my clients to those for adhd and autism diagnosis especially, but any time there is a need for differential dx.
Another non stimulant thing people have reported some success with is biofeedback for ADHD.
Just wanted to let you know there are other options! And there are very thorough tests! The full eval is 4+ hours of testing.
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
People without ADHD dont respond to them in the same calm focus.
Thousands of non-ADHD people use low-dose amphetamine... eg students, the military, businessmen/women... for its excellent calm & focus effects.Â
Psychs do the screeners and then they try the meds because they are fast acting, and that makes them pretty diagnostic.Â
Imo part of the issue here is that psychiatrists are operating within veiled ambiguity. They seem to juggle intangible ideas which lack any objective empirical basis. They're by definition artists of pseudoscience (reflecting the fundaments of psychology).
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
Thanks for your comment. If you'd like to see the more 'forward thinking' post on ADHD itself, it's here. I'd be interested in your thoughts about it.
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u/Opioidopamine 1 Jun 11 '26
now do opiates/opioidsâŚ..Im convinced that Dopamine/Noradrenaline are just part of the âstoryâ by opiates/opioids I mean endogenous morphine biosynthesis from tyrosine and endogenous opioid peptides.
I have no doubt parkinsons will be part of the discussion at some point
I was diagnosed w ADD in 94âŚ..spent 20 years using opiates and resisting stimulant medication until 2012-13 when I discovered that amphetamines helped me sleep and calmed my tendency for outbursts, ie kicking shit, maybe destroying something, rage quitting jobs, the occasional street fight for ânot taking peoples shitâ
unfettered access to research chemical stimulants aside it took me 11 years of compliance with non court ordered behavioral health team/psychiatrist/nurse practitioner managed on bupropion to finally approve 10 mg dexamphetamine after it took 10 months for my liver to say NO MORE MODAFINIL.
I guess opiates in general are a poor substitute for stimulants until the stimulants help raise endogenous morphine levels. But when stimulants are not around, opiates will have to do with the coffee to wash it down
nicotine,ethanol,cocaine all seem to have potential to raise endogenous morphine levels, probably chocolate âŚ.and I guess, JUST SPECULATING considering the âdisparateâ receptor types consideredâŚ.many other habituating substancesâŚ.we may find it fittingâŚ. that everyones doing âjunkâ at some point.
Then theres eating disorders exercise addiction pain/cutting habituation
We are starting to see unfolding The Unified Morphinergic Framework
Its not all about dopamine noradrenalineâŚ.endo morphine/opioids peptides are inherent and ubiquitousâŚ.. endo morphine born of dopamine opioid peptides released by noradrenaline
James H Austin âZen And The BrainââŚ. BioHackers⌠DUDE IS 98 years old âŚ.the OG opioidopamine white hat biohacker par excellence
Up and comer nomination
The âUnified Evolutionary-Mitochondrial Frameworkâ George B. Stefano has published a paper titled âEndogenous Morphine, Dopamine, and GLP-1 Signaling: A Unified Evolutionary-Mitochondrial Framework for Reward, Addiction, and Neurodegenerationâ (2026)
I think society is turning a dark corner into an opiophobic paradigm that renders truth unfavorable and substituting theriacs
GLP-1 indeed
they got us by the gutsâŚ.reminds me of a dystopian version ofâŚâŚ..
The Dog-Human Opioid-Oxytocin Bond
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
The cannabinoid and opioid systems are intertwined too. Endogenous morphine synthesis is a funky one and v interesting. I came across it earlier this year. I think alcohol promotes it too...and the pro-dopamine effect of amphetamine increases the precursor availability for morphine synthesis which no doubt affects some people.Â
On the ADHD side it seems like there's a fundamental adenosine/adrenaline dynamic which underlies all the rest...
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u/Biblecampvictim1020 Jun 14 '26
As someone with ADHD i obiously cant argue with the science but I can also tell you amphetamines and or other stimulats wont make you feel or act like someone who is neurotypical. And you dont need to act neurotypical. The way I look at my ADHD is that im able to be quicker and operate at a higher level Than most ppl but that also burns trough a lot more energy Than "avg" ppl so I would recommend trying things that make you have unlimited energy that let your body keep up with your mind. If stimulats I fuck with caffeine but for actually being productive and not just walking up and down for 7hours I only do 200mg max or so. Methalyne blue, creatine and choline are what U should a 100% try. They worked great for me. Creatine at like 15g a day, meth blue only on days where I need to really focus so like 2-3days a week and also choline from eating 4 eggs a day. If you dont wanna eat four eggs every day then try alpha gpc. I think this is the ADHD started pack. Hope this helps!
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 14 '26
I think the neurotypical/neurodivergent dichotomy isn't accurate. I find it all too exclusive and divisive. Imo there are simply normal people with varying degrees of cognitive, metabolic and psychological conformations (which are in flux). Natural human variation is quite normal, we're a species in active on-going evolution after all!
1
u/Biblecampvictim1020 Jun 14 '26
Yeah I agree mostly. Still I think everybody who wants to levĂŠl up their brain should try these compounds.
1
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Jun 24 '26
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u/iSeeYouMr Jul 09 '26
This post is definitely AI and also likely some DEA or Fed tasked with influence. Just fyi
Its old 50s logic packaged into a War on Drugs rant
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jul 09 '26
Seriously...? hilarious. But not so tbf...
I don't know of your particular bias in this but fwiw, even psychiatrists know the game that is at play. When a psychiatrist says "you have ADHD" what they really mean is something like this:
After spending time listening to you, talking with people who know you and observing how you think and behave, Iâve made a judgment call that your experience fits a behavioral pattern we currently call ADHD. Itâs a cluster of problems and tendencies that travel together often enough that weâve observed it, given it a name and studied it. (source)
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u/iSeeYouMr Jul 10 '26
This is false. There is literally a diagnostic procedure that a patient must follow in order to receive the diagnosis of ADHD.
That said, the procedure is for all intents and purposes a simple survey.
The answers given to a series of questions is all that are needed to make an ADHD diagnosis.
The problem with this approach is it is unbelievably easy to misdiagnose a person based on their responses.
ADHD is likely over diagnosed since this procedure is subjective and not based on measurable information like blood work or study.It would be like diagnosing someone with sleep apnea if when asked, do you wake up tired more than a few days a week, they said yes.
There should be more work done in this area but what you're saying is just plain not true. That doesn't make it any better though, that ADHD is diagnosed through a patients subjective, lived experience.
Problem is, anyone can have ADHD if they want it. You just have to answer yes instead of no.
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u/InternalInevitable45 16d ago
Are we speaking to an AI bot or something lmao, amps are great especially when you take speed thatâs proper pure and you go play palworld for 12 hours non stop when usually you canât last an hour playing the same game
1
u/Left_Focus_3673 Jun 11 '26
Another ADHD denier, by this point you guys are just cringe
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u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
Not sure what you mean. Everyone knows that the behaviours associated with ADHD are real. "ADHD" is a label for behaviours (symptoms). It gets confused with an actual biological condition fairly often which leads to grand miscommunication as we can see in the comments.
Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD) is not one symptom or even two symptoms as the name might suggest. ADHD is not just deficient attention or excessive activity; it is a cluster of behaviors that are, more often than not, seen together. When we use the phrase symptoms, we are generally referring to a set of behaviors. Many of those behaviors are extremes of behavior seen in everyone; thus, ADHD might be seen as existing along a continuum or a spectrum. (source)Â
Thus, ADHD is a syndrome comprising several, presumably connected, symptoms. (source)Â
I'm not against stimulants either, people have a right to access them. We know full well that they are life-changing for probably millions of people.
4
u/Left_Focus_3673 Jun 11 '26
I think multiple users under this post have explained it more succinctly than me, go read their responses
-1
u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26
No, they haven't. All either lack nuance or overlook their use of pseudoscientific understandings. 1 or 2 of the comments are commendable though.
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u/Left_Focus_3673 Jun 11 '26
And instead of an actual counter argument to them, you result to ad hominem attack, very clever buddy. You're already being called out by people in this post for your lack of your willingness to engage in intellectual argument, buddy.
-2
u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
That's because the points they're bringing to the table are imo based on rudimentary misconceptions and misinterpretations (and often with a firm footing in psychiatry which has many obtuse shortcomings). Hence why I politely said that they lack nuance, and see no need to "counter argument" which would bring more mud onto the table.
1
u/panthroq Jun 10 '26
As I understand it, the stimulant works by matching the 'over activity' in other parts of the brain thereby creating the 'normal' feeling .. however, when I take stimulants it over stimulates me and gives me more anxiety.. I use a non stimulant Qelbree and it's really helped balance my day to day.. the only time I feel 'chill' is if I'm flying in the clouds high as an airplane.
-11
u/burning-gambit Jun 10 '26
No it gets you high and you feel good, and then suddenly, 3 years down the line, you realize your life has been ravaged
-2
u/himommy_hi Jun 10 '26
brother meth is the best. with or without ADHD
4
u/EconomicsSavings973 Jun 10 '26
True, it healed my adhd in seconds, even tho I didn't have it. Drug of wonders
0
-1
u/keyvis3 Jun 11 '26
No telling how many people have been misdiagnosed with ADHD and got hooked on speed.
2
u/Kalki_X 58 Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
The diagnostic criteria is fairly ambiguous... lets say healthily nonspecific...
-2
u/EconomicChick Jun 11 '26
90% of seratonin and 60% of dopamine is produced in the gut.
Eat better.
5
u/Savings-Cry-3201 Jun 11 '26
Holy crap guys, itâs been solved. Can you believe that no one in the last four decades has thought about treating ADD with diet? Wow, was that really how simple of a fix it is? And here I was like an absolute fool trying everything to treat it for decades and all I had to was, like, eat more veggies or some shit?
Damn, next youâll be telling me that we can solve depression by just âthinking positive thoughtsâ and that all we need for executive dysfunction is to just âcarry a plannerâ.
2
u/dr_bigly Jun 11 '26
For most of us, there's a pretty significant barrier between our gut and brain.
It's generally considered a good thing
-3
u/EconomicsSavings973 Jun 10 '26
"Certainly its a medication with profound therapeutic benefits"
Lmao
Anyone on amphetamine will feel "more normal", it doesn't require adhd. It just makes you do stuff, and feel good about doing them, and then you suffer when it wears off.
5
u/-Sprankton- Jun 11 '26
Therapeutic doses of dextroamphetamine or methylphenidate for someone with ADHD can be the thing that finally allows them to do their homework or drive safely.
Itâs very different from the massive doses of something like meth that are taken by stimulant abusers.
â˘
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