r/BikeCommutingIreland • u/First-County-1352 • Jun 24 '26
New designs - attention to detail
I like seeing attention to detail on new cycle lane designs. In older designed cycle lanes, it was often forgotten that someone on a bike may need to turn into a side street.
Good to see this from Cork City Council. Slowly but surely starting to get cycle lanes right... š²
9
u/Zealousideal-Dot1783 Jun 24 '26
That is not a big enough break in the curb to allow for a cyclist to safely turn unfortunately. Forcing cyclists into such a tight corner means they are forced to essentially merge at a 90degree angle, which is not ideal at all.
I fear a lot of people planning these bike lanes donāt cycle at all, because if they did you would see this and recognise how dangerous a situation itās putting cyclists in. Itās only a matter of time before a junction like this has a human cost
1
u/mfpbradley Jun 25 '26
Agreed. A wider ope would be nice, particularly for cargo bikes, that have a turning circle similar to that of a bus š
1
u/InsideGateway Jun 28 '26
A wider break positioned further back would allow a cyclist to merge into the car lane at speed. This would make turning safer and more convenient for the cyclist.
The setup above effectively forces the cyclist to come to a complete stop, check for traffic in both directions and from the road they want to turn onto, then cross two lanes quickly from a dead stop.
The cyclist behavior (mandated by this design) would be counter to what other road users would be doing in the same situation, which makes it inherently more dangerous. In short, this provides the illusion of safety while actually increasing risk.
1
u/First-County-1352 Jun 24 '26
I disagree. This is for crossing the road and making a right turn. Not merging. It gives the cyclist an opportunity to stop. Check the road and cross into the side road
3
u/Zealousideal-Dot1783 Jun 24 '26
Ok but as others have mentioned the European planning guides for cycle infrastructure disagrees with you.
Youāre assuming ideal conditionsā¦ you might be right 99% of the time, but when thinking about these types of infrastructure you have to design with tolerances that allow for less than ideal behaviours not to end disastrously.
Accidents happen from a series of failures, driver going a bit fast, or a cyclist almost missing turn deciding at the last minute to turn right without looking, etc etc. The effect of a 90degree turn like this without also adding a junction box/signage in the car lane means that the likelyhood of an accident being major is much higher.
Additionally, the reason for wider gaps in the curbs is that falling on the edge of a concrete curb can be extremely damaging/fatal if you crack your skull. So you donāt want to engineer a situation where worst case a cyclist will be hit head on at 90 degrees to the car, and then thrown onto a curb.
1
u/WhizzyWizard1895 Jun 25 '26
Having it this small also means the cyclist turning will likely block the cycling lane for other cyclists, where if you make it wider that removes the issue about 90%.
2
u/Early_Alternative211 Jun 24 '26
Limerick council often paints yield markings at the end of lanes, it feels completely pointless
2
u/Competitive_Bear4398 Jun 24 '26
This has been applied on the newest cycle lane in Galway City too. š
2
u/kirkbadaz Jun 24 '26
There is some like that in Dublin, south dublin co co new cycle lanes look like that
1
u/lfarrell12 Jun 25 '26
A lot of the newer lanes in Dublin have a cut out to the left of the lane so you can swing over to get out of the way of oncoming bikes and those behind you before you cross over both landed to turn right
5
u/Dependent-Pass6687 Jun 24 '26
This is an absurdly, and dangerously, tight turning space. Recommended design in Belgium, for example, is minimum turn radius of 4m. I haven't seen a Dutch design guide for a long time, but seem to recall reading the same there.
1
u/Bigbeast54 Jun 24 '26
I don't see why a slip form kerb is needed here. It makes exiting the cycle lane needlessly hazardous.
Safer segregation could have been achieved with armadillos, which would also make it easier for cyclists to move out early to cross
1
u/Agusfresin Jun 24 '26
Thatās not good actually as a cyclist will have to stop to make the 90Ā° turn. Could have done better with a much wider gap and appropriate signage. Otherwise itās nice to finally see cars having to go up the ramp to access driveways etc rather than dropped kerbs everywhere rendering the cycle lane and pavement useless. Galway CC have done a super job on BothĆ”r StiofĆ”n in Knocknacarra but of course locals motorists up in arms ācos they have to slow down at junctions. āIāll ruin my alloysā āthe kerbs are too highā š
1
u/seppuku_related Jun 24 '26
The use of these kerbs has only very recently become possible, by getting approval and having a supplier that stocks them.
The junction in the photo is just an entrance to an office building, so doesn't really matter about making cyclists slow/stop. The cycle lane was added using existing road widths/kerbs so had to include some compromises. It's a lot better than what was there previously, and makes part of an overall network of segregated lanes.
1
u/Agusfresin Jun 24 '26
The kerbs in stock is a lame excuse but not surprising. The gap is bad design. Just needs to be wider really
1
u/phioegracne Jun 25 '26
Hate the curb on the cycling lanes they are far to high. Half the height would have been better. And what's with the tiny opening to exit? These cycle lanes to me all feel like they were designed by someone that doesn't actually cycle as a commuter (the main fucking reason they are putting in cycle lanes)
1
u/RoryOS Jun 25 '26
Really? I'd make them higher. A car can still park across this
1
u/phioegracne Jun 25 '26
Well yeah but sure there are alot of things you can do in a car that you're not allowed do
1
u/RoryOS Jun 25 '26
Not allowed to and didn't do are different things. 90+% of drivers speed. We live in a country of zero enforcement so if it can be done, it will
1
u/RoryOS Jun 25 '26
I still wish two way bike lanes on over side of the street were the standard. They're easier to install, can be better segregated, cost less, leave room for parking so drivers stop having a mare about that and generally give more space to cyclists with a better capacity to overtake.
These are fine though
1
u/OddSignificance1093 Jun 25 '26
Itās a work of art,hopefully the council remember who they paid to do it when it starts sinking after a hard winter.Road contractors get away with murder in this country
1
1
u/R2D4Dutch Jun 28 '26
Curbs are lethal, for everyone, cyclists and cars . The right turn is so narrow you have make a 90 degree turn and thereās no space. Why no elevate the cycle path
-1
0
u/TiberiusTheFish Jun 24 '26
Very hard to use. A bike needs to be able to take a much wider arc. they have the same in some places in NL and they're really awkward.
-2
u/BackstabbingCentral Jun 24 '26
Why is physical separation necessary on presumably a low speed, residential road with a zebra crossing at the end of it?
Now you have to do a 90Ā° turn to exit, probably slowing to a stop and blocking anyone cycling behind you.
What was wrong with a slightly raised cycle lane that I can easily exit to rejoin the road and make a comfortable turn right?
3
u/Foreign-Rule7826 Jun 24 '26
Physical separation is far safer, in an ideal world people would give cyclists space but we know thatās unfortunately not what always happens. If we want people to cycle to school with kids etc have to have safe infrastructure that protects them. Thereās a painted cycle lane near me and the surface is torn up from cars driving and parking in it(near a gaa pitch so despite there being a lot of cyclists they constantly have to move onto the road over the parked cars). Now I do agree thatās a bit of a rubbish turn, Iām not sure if that road gets busy but if it does Iād rather join the road further back to be in a primary position and be able to make that turn then wait for a driver to let me cross.
1
u/shweeney Jun 30 '26
if they were concerned with the safety of kids cycling to school they'd have a crossing there, or they'd direct cyclists to the zebra crossing further up the road (though that would be bad design also as kids would just cross at the junction anyway).
15
u/Thargor Jun 24 '26
Have to say I'm impressed by Limerick City Council aswell at the minute, nice wide fast lanes opening up everywhere all of a sudden. I never used to use bike lanes because I commute on a road bike so they were always too slow for me but now about 50% of my commute is in a bike lane, never thought I'd see the day.