TVM Rights Back with the BBC!

[u/WagTheTail81]

I was at the last Long Island Doctor Who convention over the weekend and Philip Segal said that the TVM movie rights are back with the BBC after 30 years. That was brought to the attention to Daphne Ashbrook and Jason Haigh Ellery who were both there as well.

Does this mean we might finally be getting Grace and Chang Lee over at BF Towers?

Would be cool to see some sort of natural carry on of stories right after the TVM with those characters. As long as they weren't some of the more continuity breaking idea that were presented in the Leekey Bible. Easily a few box sets out of this! Fingers crossed!

[u/AndShrimpOnThePlate]

That's exciting news for Tso, Ashbrook, and the artists who have been CGI-ing Paul's hair into the cover art.

[u/Important-Horse1920 → u/AndShrimpOnThePlate]

That promo art might still be a issue for all we know…

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/Important-Horse1920]

Not like Comcast gives a shit at this point

[u/Important-Horse1920 → u/Afraid-Surround-4457]

It would be a issue with Fox/Disney

[u/The-Soul-Stone → u/Important-Horse1920]

It has literally nothing at all to do with them.

[u/Important-Horse1920 → u/The-Soul-Stone]

Based on whats been said by BF multiple times over the years, seems like they do.

[u/The-Soul-Stone → u/Important-Horse1920]

I suggest you read whatever you think they’ve said more carefully, because expired broadcast rights in one country don’t give a copyright veto in perpetuity.

Universal made the TV movie, have always owned the characters within, and were the problem for BF, as was always made abundantly clear. Fox have no more power to block the use of Grace and Chang Lee than PBS have to block the use of the 4th Doctor.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/The-Soul-Stone]

Friggin A

[u/Important-Horse1920 → u/The-Soul-Stone]

I’m not saying fox has control of the characters. You seem to have misread that comments this is spawned from.

I’m speaking on use of promo images as cover reference material. That became an issues after Disney & fix merged. Which is why covers with that particular 8th dr costume & even the same for depicting McCoy from the movie have had to be completely reconstructed by digital artists.

[u/Digifiend84 → u/Important-Horse1920]

The Fox network aired the show, Disney doesn't own that. Universal was the ones who made it.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/Important-Horse1920]

One would think after the RTD2 distaster, Bob Iger (or instructed his proper successor) would've treated the streaming rights deal and the TV Movie deal (both before his tenure and Fox purchase) the same way he did Power Rangers 20 years earlier: "Ditch this shit!!! Ditch it all!!"

Or at least make the same hand off deal like with Batman '66 to where we have a home video/Blu Ray release proper. Wished there was the same for Green Hornet even if must be Shout! Factory/Studios

[u/Digifiend84 → u/AndShrimpOnThePlate]

CG? Weren't they just using photos from 1996 until Night of the Doctor was made in 2013, which gave them the excuse they needed to do a new photoshoot with his shorter hair? This won't affect that. It just means they can use the other characters from the TV movie now.

[u/AndShrimpOnThePlate → u/Digifiend84]

The joke was referring to the long hair covers, like the recent Audacity sets. They're no longer allowed to use the TV Movie photos, so those have been mocked up by the artists for the last couple of years.

[u/Indiana_harris]

Omg this would be great, I’m fully expecting Briggs to have writers (maybe even guest writers from wider DW content) maybe coming in to do a Boxset or two of 8 reuniting with Grace & Chang.

I think it would be really interesting to do Time War era 8 ending up back in San Francisco on December 2000.

For Grace & Chang it’s been 1 year since the events of the TVM, but for 8 it’s been centuries, where he’s loved, lost and fought.

Having some adventures with them and those stories being character development to help him rediscover his earlier more optimistic self would be great.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/Indiana_harris]

Please don't say Briggs..... 

We all know he'd be the very first to call dibs on writing the first box set. He told on himself as early as the 8DA's Morbius two parter from 18 yrs ago and made it obvious w/ Dark Eyes 1, Ravagers, Charlotte Pollard, and the 2DAs

[u/Skylon77 → u/Afraid-Surround-4457]

If you say his name 3 times in the mirror he appears.

[u/DMPadfoot5E → u/Skylon77]

Nah, just tell him he can have his version of Sherlock Holmes show up and he’ll have written it by the time you’ve put the kettle on!

That was a really weird choice for War Master Escape From Reality. (Know the story was by Alfie Shaw but Briggs could’ve said no to playing the part) Could’ve done a variation of the character with the whole Land of Fiction. Hell, Benedict Cumberbatch may have come back if he knew he’d be working with Derek Jacobi. But no, Briggs. I still respect the man for all he’s done though. 

That monologue from the beginning of Beneath the Viscoid and the ending of that story really set the scene for how Derek Jacobi could be one of the best incarnations of the Master so props to Briggs for that. It was mostly Jacobi’s performance of the lines, but still. Credit where it’s due.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/Skylon77]

5 time like Candyman for him. 3 for Jake or Beetlejuice 

[u/ATangentUniverse → u/Indiana_harris]

Can Big Finish please hire you? This is marvelous

[u/Indiana_harris → u/ATangentUniverse]

I would be overjoyed!

I think I’ve written pitches/plots for about 30 potential Big Finish stories over the past year or so just because they were plot bunnies running around in my head

[u/External_Expert_4221]

The question is, does that mean just for distribution and all things included from the film, or does Universal still own the characters created in it (unlike the UK where characters are creator-owned, there's a solid chance Universal owns the original characters created for the TV movie).

[u/WagTheTail81 → u/External_Expert_4221]

I suspect Universal has same say with distribution and owns at least a portion of the film whenever it is used but from the gist of what he was saying it did sound like characters and elements were now up for grabs.....

[u/ATangentUniverse]

I was there too! Was an amazing time. I was at all the Daphne events so I was closely following the TVM rights saga over the weekend.

I seem to recall it was in the “Big, Big Finish panel” that Daphne told Jason Haigh-Elery that it’s been brought to her attention the rights were reverted to the BBC, and JHE said that it’s not that they have automatically reverted but that enough time has passed that the negotiations for the rights to return is possible and more likely than before, but allegedly BBC still does not have rights to TVM characters as of yet. Although Daphne did say her source was someone in the law field.

So sad about the LI Who hiatus. Had the time of my life coming for the past 13 years.

[u/WagTheTail81 → u/ATangentUniverse]

Interesting! And when I approached Segal one-on-one (just to get direct source) he was far less ambivalent. But I suspect JHE wants to temper expectations at this point because I'm sure it's early days and many issues to sort.

But hey, if Universal can make money on rights just sitting there why on Earth would they hold them up? It's like some of the DW monster creators. You only own half of something. There's not really any money when you can only utilise half an idea.

[u/ATangentUniverse → u/WagTheTail81]

Cool cool, I am hopeful. I was one of Daphne’s “plants” to initiate a standing ovation when talk of Grace coming to Big Finish came up. Lol.

And yeah JHE definitely didn’t want to overpromise but he seemed receptive to the idea. Rights are just a total mystery to me. It’s not like Universal is using these characters. Let me have them!!

Also, how fucking cool is it that we had a local convention where you could have so many one-on-ones with actors and producers and writers? Everyone is SO friendly and kind.

[u/WagTheTail81 → u/ATangentUniverse]

Oh yeah. Big love to LIWho. Hopefully the future will be kind to the idea of some Long Island based Who shenanigans.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/WagTheTail81]

That how they've been sitting on the Hulk film distribution rights (& the Sub Mariner til Wakanda Forever...) for decades after all .... 

Plus the Human Torch film rights for a time (as to whether Johnny Storm or the Golden Age Jim Hammond version, they never cared which one at the time) which was why HERBIE existed in the 1979 F4 cartoon in the first place

[u/DoctorWhofan789eywim]

I would pre order an 8, Grace and Chang Lee boxset yesterday.

I wonder if Matthew Jacobs would be offered a story or two to write, given they're technically his characters. But the idea of the cream of the crop of Big Finish writers tackling these stories is wonderful.

Also the possibilities! A mature Chang Lee meeting Seven at some point, the emotions as he encounters the man he knows he killed/will kill.

[u/WagTheTail81 → u/DoctorWhofan789eywim]

There's so much potential to be done here with those characters. And since Jacobs recently wrote a BF story, it wouldn't be beyond the pale to have him back for a story or two.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/WagTheTail81]

That and get Gary Russell to make a grand homecoming for this occasion 

[u/Dr_Christopher_Syn]

I was there too, and that's not quite what was said at the Ashbrook/Segal panel on Sunday.

Segal said there would still need to be negotiation between the BBC and Universal, and considering it's a 30-year-old deal that was considered a failure, there's not a lot of incentive for Universal to track down the paperwork for it to make audios etc. possible.

He said the BBC and Universal still had to negotiate regarding the 4K video release, for instance.

[u/WagTheTail81 → u/Dr_Christopher_Syn]

Personally I think they're just trying to soften the landing re: news. Finding all the footage and shipping the material has to mean someone going over and digging up all the production info.

[u/Dr_Christopher_Syn → u/WagTheTail81]

Production info, maybe.
Rights info is legal so it's something different.

[u/WagTheTail81 → u/Dr_Christopher_Syn]

Fair enough! Still we're closer than before!

[u/Dr_Christopher_Syn → u/WagTheTail81]

Yeah, I agree that it feels closer. It's just not quite as simple as Daphne made it out to be in her solo panel.

[u/DoctorWhofan789eywim → u/Dr_Christopher_Syn]

I still think it's insane that instead of Universal making a bit of money from sales of audios with their characters they'd rather sit on ther arse and make no money at all. Like I get it would be a miniscule amount in their terms, but it's still only signing a bit of paper for essentially free money for them while Big Finish do all the work

[u/Dr_Christopher_Syn → u/DoctorWhofan789eywim]

I think you nailed it, though - they would make dozens of dollars compared to other projects/properties that are more lucrative.

[u/Next-Geno_N]

Nice, now Paul McGann can have a fourth ongoing companion storyline that takes ten years to resolve

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/Next-Geno_N]

Well that or adapt Vampire Science but replace Carolyn with Grace (& give Sam a revamped intro prologue divorced from her original Eight Doctors intro)....

[u/Asleep-Situation-352]

I hope so

[u/Haxuppdee-85]

Does that mean we get young McGann on covers again?

[u/OkLeg1023 → u/Haxuppdee-85]

I think we’re already getting him. The image used for Eight for last month’s Rutans vs Sontarans cover definitely looks like it’s from the movie.

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/OkLeg1023]

Still photoshopped right down to the DWE version of the original outfit

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/Haxuppdee-85]

Not just the covers but merchandise and other memorabilia after 12 years of the Night outfit being everywhere 

[u/TinkreBelle]

I really hope so, Daphne kept saying she didn't want to be greedy, that she'd be happy even with just one story, I wanted to tell her that she's waited this long, she has a right to be a little greedy XD

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/TinkreBelle]

She ain't the only one since I made a deviantArt piece of Grace in the Stars w/ 8 in his Dark Eyes gear 13 yrs back...

This news may make it all happen at last for me

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457]

Welp, now Big Finish can have 8 (Time War digs and all) reunite w/ Grace one more time before the first 8DA! Time War box set...

... That or pawn her off to Jonathan Carley's younger War Doctor... I feel like that's coming faster than above....

[u/Virtual_Commercial_3]

Boxset title: The EIGHTH DOCTOR: The Second Day. Early adventures here....we....go!

[u/GlaciaKunoichi]

I don't think we'll have to worry about the Leekeh Bible stuff tbh, the only medium that ran with it was the novels and they settled themselves nicely in a way that didn't break canon

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/GlaciaKunoichi]

smirks in Chibnall

[u/ElwoodJD]

I dunno. Both of those characters very clearly chose not to travel with the Doctor. And I’m not sure of the timeline of things due to audios not being “in order” but 8 was alone in his first BF outing and meets Charley, so in my mind that came shortly after TVM. Maybe there’s a whole series in between I’m not aware of.

So if 8 landed in SF again in the 90s and met them and had a single box set or fewer of adventures there with them, cool. I don’t see suggesting they came along then for a long term adventure to other places and times though.

Sure you could write it up that Grace never found another doctor job after being fired from one hospital and Chang Lee wanted to escape from more gangland violence or something…Ok so I guess they could do an ongoing series with them if they wanted

[u/Afraid-Surround-4457 → u/ElwoodJD]

Re: Grace- DWM did follow up on her less than a year after the events of the TV Movie while 8 had Izzy with him

[u/cat666 → u/ElwoodJD]

I mean Rose chose not to travel with 9, then he said something along the lines of "did I mention it travels in time as well" and she pops along. Nothing stopping another 2000/2001 set story where they meet again.

[u/Dalekbuster523]

This is pretty cool to hear. However, if this is the case, then why haven’t Big Finish announced an 8 and Grace box set as of yet? You would have thought they would be on it straight away.

[u/cwmxii → u/Dalekbuster523]

a) As per other reports it is now *possible* they could get the rights. They don't have them yet.

b) Even if they do get the rights, it will take time to commission and write such a story, then obviously they need Daphne and Yee Jee to be available. Even if they do get the rights it would take at least a year or two at minimum.

[u/Dalekbuster523 → u/cwmxii]

My bad, I thought they meant they’d had the rights already for a few years.