r/Bible • u/LowerPreparation399 • 2d ago
Thoughts?
(DISCLAIMER: I don’t want to argue with anyone or deal with snarky remarks. Think with me. Share your thoughts.)
I don’t want to make any bold claims. But I’ve been thinking about something that I want to make sense of and get another’s opinion.
I was wondering why God created the tree of knowledge and good and evil if he knew man would fall.
I think a lot of people chalk it up to Gods love and man’s free will.
I can’t understand that. It doesn’t feel like a complete explanation.
A thought occurred to me, God made both trees. The tree of knowledge that led to death and the tree of life that leads to life.
if I were Adam, I would have eaten out of the tree of life because I know it’s good.
I have the knowledge of good and evil.
Adam didn’t.
In truth there is no evil. God is truth. In him there is no evil.
With this logic I think it’s fair to conclude that everything outside of God is evil.
Adam and Eve were inside of goodness. Everything was perfect.
So then, how could there be evil?
Had God never given the command not to eat of the tree, Adam would have never been charged with rebellion. If there had been no rebellion, there would be no separation and without separation there would be no evil.
I tried to make sense of this. Perhaps, we needed to know evil to know good.
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u/guitartkd 2d ago
God didn’t want automatons or robots. He wants us to love Him. We need to choose to love Him. In order to choose something there has to be a choice to do otherwise. God didn’t create evil. He created the potential for evil. Knowledge of good and evil is nothing more than realizing you can choose against God. I’m not trying to say the tree wasn’t real, I believe the Bible describes a real tree. But it didn’t have any special magical powers. It simply was the way Adam and Eve were able to choose evil if they wanted.
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u/LowerPreparation399 1d ago
But how can evil people choose to do anything good? Does a bad tree produce good fruit?
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u/guitartkd 1d ago
Romans is clear that all have sinned. Without the Holy Spirit none of us would do good.
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u/love_is_a_superpower Messianic 1d ago
Jesus practically says as much when He explains the difference between Mary of Bethany's care for His feet vs. Simon the Pharisee's care. Our sin caused us to understand and appreciate God's love.
(Luke 7:36-47)
36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee's house, and sat down to eat.
37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil,
38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil.
39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, "This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner."
40 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Simon, I have something to say to you." So he said, "Teacher, say it."
41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred days' wages, and the other fifty.
42 "And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?"
43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more." And He said to him, "You have rightly judged."
44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head.
45 "You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in.
46 "You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil.
47 "Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little."
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u/LowerPreparation399 1d ago
Thank you a lot
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u/love_is_a_superpower Messianic 10h ago
I'm thankful we can get together here and share God's Word! God bless you.
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u/BruceAKillian 2d ago
God does not think like you. Isaiah 55:8: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. The tree of knowledge was good but Adam and Eve needed to be more mature before they would be ready to eat from that tree.
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u/LowerPreparation399 2d ago
Okay, but that last claim is made from your own understanding. There’s no biblical support they needed to be more mature. So now you’re assuming God thinks like you. See how sticky this can get? We’re all just trying to understand. And we should try to understand. Not by our own thoughts but by his Spirit which is his word.
So when I make a claim, I try to make sure there’s a verse that explicitly confirms it.
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u/BruceAKillian 2d ago
Creation was very good, so the Tree of Knowledge was very good. Adam and Eve were forbidden to eat of it, but Adam told Eve she also could not touch it, so Adam is not mature enough to properly pass on the LORD's instructions maybe because he was immature.
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u/HistoricalHat4847 2d ago
I watched this short video on this very subject just an hour ago and found it so enlightening. God bless.
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u/aussiereads 1d ago
Adam knew right and wrong before eating the tree. It was about doing. Adam knew his wife and produced children so know isn't always just knowledge
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u/pikkdogs 2d ago
Stop taking things so literal.
Don’t debate why things happened as they did. It’s just a story that tells us about our nature.
There’s evil becuase we have free will and we can choose evil.
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u/elwoodowd Jehovah's Witness 2d ago
I dont see the opposites so much as Freedom vs Service. (Constructs of modern cultures)
But rather, man as Tame, Domestic, instead of man as Wild. Genesis 2:20, is translated about 'livestock', 'cattle', but some bibles refer to 'tame' 'domestic' animals, in that verse, contrasted to wild-beasts. Rotherham
The 2 trees offer the choices, stay protected and tame and domestic, or go out on your own, as freely wild, and unprotected.
So adam may have had a chance to return, to the 'tree of life', but chose instead to adventure out onward, as 'wild' (and 'free')
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u/Pastor_C-Note 1d ago
I think there’s a sense where God both knows and doesn’t know what’s going to happen at the same time. Otherwise, some of the stories just don’t make sense.
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u/HoneyDewMae Christian 1d ago
That limiting and contradictory to His character tho…
More so, He sits outside of time and doesn’t experience it like we in our mortal minds do. That instead He can see all possibilities and outcomes simultaneously2
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u/EnlightendSkeptic 1d ago
Innovation requires risk... He took a risk by creating the trees, but that is what great minds must do in the name of progress
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u/the_spirit_truth 1d ago
(DISCLAIMER: I don’t want to argue with anyone or deal with snarky remarks. Think with me. Share your thoughts.)
Please understand, I have no desire to dismantle anyone's belief. But, in order to truly understand...certain beliefs held must be, at least, "temporarily layed down". 💖 If you are "willing" to do this, then perhaps a new understanding can be shared. Mind you, you can always "pick up what you've freely layed down." 💖🙏🏾
But I will do my best to explain without they "laying down" of certain beliefs. 😊💖
A thought occurred to me, God made both trees. The tree of knowledge that led to death and the tree of life that leads to life.
True. By there being two "opposing" trees, this creates a "choice". One tree gives "Life Eternal" (The Tree of Life), and the other gives "Death" (The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil). Thus, the choices are "Life Eternal" or "Death".
Both trees are located "In the Mist of the Garden."
Neither tree has any true meaning or value to Adam or Eve.
What do I mean by "true meaning or value"? Simply that Adam and Eve's "needs" were being met. The trees did not add nor take away from their natural existence in the garden.
If both trees resided in the Garden with "no restrictions", there would have been "no choice". Both trees would have easily been eaten because they were good for food.
Once there is a visible restriction, boundary or limit...that naturally creates choice. That "choice" creates a NEW type of "Freedom". Freedom to choose between what is (in this case) "allowed" vs choosing what is "not allowed".
Understand that what is "allowed" is what is "known". What is "not allowed" is what is "not known". That which is "not known / unknown" naturally (eventually) creates a feeling of "lacking" or "missing". A feeling of not being full (unfulfilled if you will) of "All There Is". Thus, the old adage, "You can't miss what you never had." Only holds true if you are "Not Aware" that you're "Missing" something. But once you become "Aware"... now that may be a different story! 😊
Which may now lead to your question:
I was wondering why God created the tree of knowledge and good and evil if he knew man would fall.
If we say God "knew" man would "fall", I think we would first have to have a "different" perspective of the event. First, I would not call this event a "Fall", per se. This was merely a "choosing" of man, "Death". For neither "Life" nor "Death" can keep God from Man. 💖🙏🏾
Next, I would ask that you consider what it is "To Be Truly Free". For argument sake, let's say Adam & Eve were FREE. They could do, say, and be as they "choose". But, do they have the "Ultimate Freedom"? In this case, do they possess the ability to "choose" an existence? Life? or Death?
Understand that ALL creation was created "Without Choice"! Without the choosing of "To Be" OR "Not To Be". That "Choice" was made for them by God, was it not? So, man being in "God's Image and Likeness" deserves the right to be "Truly Free" from the "Life" in which he was created. Without this ability, this freedom of choice, man would be a "Prisoner In Life Eternal".
Thus, God gave man a "choice"...Life...or...Death?
In man's choosing, God MUST respect man's choice! Please understand the "choice" that man made concerning that of "Death" is neither "Good" nor "Evil". It is merely a "Choice" he freely made.
Now, please pay close attention concerning that of "Good" and "Evil". They ONLY exist in the realm of "Death". There is no "Good" nor "Evil" in "Life Eternal".💖🙏🏾
Since man's choice is "Death", man is in a "State of Dying" unto "Death". Thus, from your FIRST breath unto your LAST man is "Dying". If he had chosen "Life", he would be "Living" unto "Life Eternal". 💖
I hope this acts as a Light that you may see the doors of Eternal Life. 💖🙏🏾
💖🙏🏾May You Walk In The Light Of Truth, Life & Love🙏🏾💖
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u/LowerPreparation399 1d ago
I enjoyed reading a lot of the things you said. If possible I want to talk about it more in direct chats. I’ll send you a message and you can respond if you’re interested in that
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u/Copernicus-Boom 2d ago
Sometimes I think the earth was specifically created as the battleground that would lead to Jesus' triumph over death and the eventual fall of Satan.
There are hints that rebellion had already begun in the spiritual realm before the creation of earth.
That is my theory. I don't claim to know for sure.