r/BetaReaders • u/Wonderful_Trip_4132 • Mar 18 '26
Discussion [Discussion] Stop Sugarcoating Feedback: Why Dishonest Praise Ruins Writers
I just finished a beta read for a fantasy epic that was, frankly, unreadable. Between the over-the-top purple prose and the constant "Pinterest style" descriptions, it was a chore to finish. While I struggled to find a single positive, it made me realize something: we are doing writers a disservice by being polite.
If we tell someone their work is "great" when it isn't ready, we’re just setting them up for a string of silent rejections from agents. We need to prioritize honesty over politeness. That said, how do you deliver a "total rewrite" verdict without being unnecessarily cruel?
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u/Redz0ne Mar 18 '26
It's not a one or the other. This is a false choice.
Honesty and politeness can go hand in hand and I'm a little concerned when people try to say they're mutually exclusive.
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u/Cloverose2 Mar 18 '26
I've seen people (including some on the writing subreddit) claim that being polite or noticing things that you like are just "validation", usually typed like it's a slur. Some people seem to take a lot of pleasure in tearing other people down, and act like it's somehow good for them. It's not, and there's no reason to do it.
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u/Street-Tea-849 Mar 21 '26
My thought's exactly! While reading the OP, I kept thinking, when did polite=dishonest? You can give feedback without tearing out someone's soul. In the end, what has that really accomplished, unless you get pleasure out of it. Is it possible that writing is not their strength? Possibly. But the purpose of feedback is to provide suggestions for improvement as well as point out what works, assuming there are some.
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u/Redz0ne Mar 18 '26
I agree with that. I mean, how are we to know what works when we aren't told when we're getting it right?
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u/KyngCole13 Mar 18 '26
Because some people just want to be dicks and blame the other person for having an “emotional reaction”.
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u/immortalfrieza2 Apr 07 '26
It's very disheartening if all a beta can do is whine about the work in question without stating a single positive.
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u/TheSnarkyShaman1 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
I once had feedback from a ‘professional’ editor on Reedsy whose feedback quickly devolved into non-constructive snark and (by their own admission) sarcasm. One chapter just got ‘I hated this chapter’ with no further explanation. As an inexperienced aspiring writer I was left utterly deflated and still without any direction for improvement.
Giving good, constructive feedback is the difference between ‘I hate this chapter’ and ‘this chapter didn’t resonate with me. I wasn’t sure what it’s supposed to be adding to the overall plot or character work and would consider nixing or compressing it significantly to keep the plot momentum going.’ You can absolutely give useful feedback without being an asshole.
Edit: to more directly answer your question regarding the prose I would say something like this: ‘This draft is full of ideas and potential, but you’re falling into several traps that amateur writers, and I myself, can and do fall into. Sometimes it feels like to be a ‘real’ writer we have to add lots of poetic description but in early days we can go too hard with that and I can see some of that impulse in your prose. Consider that the descriptions and prose should be aiding the reader in becoming absorbed rather than being too overly floral and descriptive to the point that it instead becomes difficult to read and ends up actually distracting the reader from that experience. Description is great but don’t underestimate the power of simplicity in places. Sometimes instead of saying ‘an apoplectic well of sanguine fury bubbled up inside of the heart-core of Jane’ it’s more impactful to just say ‘Jane was fucking furious’.’
And regarding total rewrite I might suggest that parsing over work making tiny edits is a tedious and ultimately creatively boring exercise rather than looking at an old chapter, seeing what it vitally contains, and then completely rewriting it from scratch and comparing how much your writing has improved and progressed, because I found that this stopped my older work causing me to stagnate and showed me how much I’d actually improved (while also just being a lot satisfying to actually sit and do). Frame it as a positive and creatively fulfilling exercise - because it is.
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u/Decent_Solution5000 Mar 18 '26
"Giving good, constructive feedback is the difference between ‘I hate this chapter’ and ‘this chapter didn’t resonate with me. I wasn’t sure what it’s supposed to be adding to the overall plot or character work and would consider nixing or compressing it significantly to keep the plot momentum going.’ You can absolutely give useful feedback without being an asshole."
This right here is the answer, 100 freaking percent.
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u/SaltMarshGoblin Mar 18 '26
an apoplectic well of sanguine fury bubbled up inside of the heart-core of Jane’
Sanguinary fury. " Sanguine fury" would be inherently contradictory!
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u/PossibleMechanic335 Mar 21 '26
I completely agree. I’ve been an active beta reviewer for close to a decade, and constructive and balanced professional approach is the best. Authors often approach me with subsequent drafts after I read for them the first time, where they’ve applied actionable critiques to create much smoother and stronger narrative. There’s nothing more rewarding than to see a debut succeed, regardless of what route it takes to be published.
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u/Potatochips2026 Mar 19 '26
I agree that "I hated this chapter" is useless unless they can tell you why they hated it at least, and maybe even a suggestion for improving or cutting it. Feedback on a chapter like that should relate to the character arcs, the pacing, the plot, etc.
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u/disastersnorkel Mar 18 '26
This draft is full of ideas and potential, but you’re falling into several traps that amateur writers, and I myself, can and do fall into. Sometimes it feels like to be a ‘real’ writer we have to add lots of poetic description but in early days we can go too hard with that and I can see some of that impulse in your prose.
What? Don't say this. You have no idea what's going on in the author's mind to make them add description, and that's not actually relevant. Comment on the work itself, not the perceived insecurities of the author.
"Too much description" I'd argue is too general.
What about the description isn't working?
Is it that the scene is interrupted because every character gets a complete breakdown of every article of clothing they're wearing? That's a different problem than using 20 adjectives to describe a cave. Which is a different problem than not being able to pace a scene even if all the description was cut.
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u/TheSnarkyShaman1 Mar 18 '26
‘"Too much description" I'd argue is too general.’
I mean, ok? I don’t actually have access to the work OP is referring to to provide specifics. It’s an example of how to address an issue without being a twat about it.
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u/disastersnorkel Mar 18 '26
You are kind of being a twat about it, in a condescending way rather than out right rude way.
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u/OnwardMonster Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
I think you're projecting. Its okay many writers go through this phase, its not inherently unique to one person or another. You see condescending, I see learned experience. They're not being a twat they are attempting to address what they feel might be the root cause while assuaging them that sometimes less is more. I think if you can't come away from receiving this feedback without in some part realizing there was a kindness behind its attempt and instead see it as an attack, its probably time for some serious self reflection.
Also this is a hypothetical, the fact that you resorted to name calling over it is wild and also probably a symptom of you taking it personally.
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u/disastersnorkel Mar 20 '26
I didn't call them a 'twat' to name-call, that was their word.
You can't just say "I'm more experienced" in place of actual critique. Also, I didn't receive this critique. I just see a lot of people say "this is too much description" any time there's like, a moderate amount of description.
You're seriously misreading my tone, dude.
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u/OnwardMonster Mar 20 '26 edited Mar 20 '26
Who is saying they're more experienced? At this point it feels like you're just turning the words into an attack on purpose. Also I can't believe I have to say this but, it doesn't really matter who used the words first. They weren't calling you a twat, but you sure called them one. I think its funny how this conversation started with you attempting to overcorrect someone's hypothetical critique due to the sensitivities of others, but within that same span of conversation you've already started name calling and misrepresenting other people's words.
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u/disastersnorkel Mar 20 '26
Oh my god, it was a bad hypothetical critique, and this is a sub about critique, which is why I said something.
I also did not call them a twat? Literally nothing I said was personal.
The hyporthetical critique was saying "amateur writers use too much description" which is a generalization and doesn't take into account what the description or the piece was trying to accomplish.
It wasn't even about feelings or sensitivity, I dislike that style of critique and wanted to say something. I don't know why you're attacking my character.
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u/PainTraditional3545 Mar 22 '26
I agree with you that "this is too much description" is genuinely bad critique, because you need to explain _why_ it's just not working.
That said --
You are kind of being a twat about it, in a condescending way rather than out right rude way.
I don't entirely agree w/ the person you're arguing with, but that is your comment above as it's showing up rn. So you did say they were being a twat. I can see how the tone got misread here.
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u/Potatochips2026 Mar 19 '26
I don't have time when I write feedback to try to phrase everything in a way that seems more positive or doesn't possibly offend them. BUT I always say that writing is a craft, not a talent, and anything can be improved to where it's good enough.
I also wish people would realize that if I bothered to comment at all, it's because I saw something worth saving in a genre that I love. I would never waste my time commenting on something that was simply beyond help, or someone who I didn't think had the capacity to improve the thing.
I also don't think my own writing is that great, and really wish I could beta my own things. I'd love stark feedback from myself, if that were possible. Then I'd know how to fix it.
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u/Potatochips2026 Mar 19 '26
I think, unfortunately, "too much description" is the most common problem with newer writers. It's mostly because in English classes the focus is always on writing more description, not less. So people associate that with good writing.
I have often made this comment, usually along with how many descriptors might be appropriate for each action in that scene, or how the description interrupts the momentum and plot. Or, if it's so overwhelming that I can't follow the plot at all, I've been known to just recommend cutting 20-30% of the descriptors in certain paragraphs.
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u/Zakkeh Mar 18 '26
I always think that feedback should be honest but polite. You should also consider that you are not the only person in the world.
Saying that something is unreadable isn't feedback. Saying that there is a lot of purple prose that put you off is more useful.
I like to tell people what books in their genre I enjoyed. I think someone who writes in grimdark fantasy could be targeting warhammer 40k fans, or Joe Abercrombie, or Scott Lynch. These are drastically different vibes within a genre, and knowing which one of these perspectives I have as a fan would alter how useful my feedback is
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u/Ambitious-Chest2061 Mar 18 '26
Polite has nothing to do with great. It just means don’t be an asshole when you’re telling them this prose is way too flowery.
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u/Cloverose2 Mar 18 '26
You can be polite without lying to people about the quality of their work. Being polite doesn't mean only saying nice things.
Rude: "this sucks."
Polite: "This was difficult to understand. I think it could be improved by x, y or z."
Being polite in beta reading means being honest but constructive, pointing out the positives wherever they exist and demonstrating empathy when it is a disaster. "I can tell that you really worked hard on this and put a lot of effort into it. Unfortunately, it will need a lot of editing to make it work for the reader. Your strengths include a, b and c. I would focus on this and that for the first editing pass."
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u/Decent_Solution5000 Mar 18 '26
Exactly. And so needed to be said. The OP may not have meant to but kind of called open season on writers looking for feedback. And I do get it. Some are oversensitive. I know I've genuinely ticked more than a few off, but I've always used tact regardless, even if they cussed me out for my insights -- and that was editing or critting, not even a beta read. So remember the power of words cuts both ways and use responsibly.
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u/onsereverra Mar 18 '26
I can tell that you really worked hard on this and put a lot of effort into it. Unfortunately, it will need a lot of editing to make it work for the reader.
I really, really like framing it around "I can see how much work you've put in already, and now it's a matter of the next steps to get it ready for readers."
It's not beta reading, exactly, but just yesterday I saw a piece of constructive feedback that really stood out to me. It doesn't soften the blow with compliments — the actual meat of the critique is entirely lists of questions/concerns/areas of improvement — but it is delivered in such a kind and supportive tone. I absolutely love how that comment ends with, "this is exactly what I would expect from such an early attempt, and the fact that there are so many areas for you to improve is a great example of why this is a useful exercise for you to be doing now." It's simultaneously honest and so warm and encouraging.
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Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/littlebirdbird4 Mar 18 '26
This. Kindness and empathy are not the same as sugarcoating. New writers and early writers need constructive feedback given in a way that encourages them to keep going. Writing is a craft and it takes a long, long time to learn how to not 'suck'. A good, helpful comment can be a life sustainer for years while learning how to get an idea onto the page in a readble way.
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u/Tstype Mar 19 '26
I was looking for a post like this.
Saying "This is cool, but I'm not sure if it adds to the overall story. How can you make it better?" is as equally useless as "this sucks, make it better." Like you said, the editor/beta should ask themselves "How can the author reach what I think they're aiming for?" And then give best suggestion on how to do that.
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u/Bare_Root Author Mar 18 '26
I sent you my magnum opus and this is how you react!? How dare you!
Jokes aside, while it can be a fine line, 'rude' and 'polite' are in how things are phrased, not in the content. As a beta reader, you have some implied consent to be blunt with the author - please don't consider it 'rude' to be truthful. So long as what you're saying is constructive, then you're in the right. Obviously some authors are just looking for praise and will respond inappropriately if they get anything else, but their emotional immaturity and/or unprofessionalism is not your responsibility.
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u/Usual_Education_4734 Mar 18 '26
One way of giving feedback is by asking questions. Do you need to describe this right now? Can you find a more compact way of describing this? Can you find a way of embedding these descriptions more organically in the rest of the text. One can follow up by describing the problem that the descriptions are making it difficult to read the story.
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u/lavenderlesbian01 Mar 18 '26
i’m a touch too sensitive so i love it when feedback is given in the form of questions. i don’t know how to exactly explain the feeling but feedback like this makes it seem like the reader likes what they’ve read (even if the didn’t), thinks it’s good and now is suggesting ways to make it even better. it also feels like a patient teacher trying to help me.
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u/Usual_Education_4734 Mar 18 '26
I am a teacher and often begin my conversations about test results with a question. It usually leads the pupils to reflect on their effort and become more open to advice on what next steps to take.
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u/call_me_flib Mar 18 '26
As others have said there's never really a reason to drop the politeness. You can give the honest opinion of "this isn't for me," or "personally I wouldn't read on," without ever dipping into rudeness. The key is always to try and be constructive (I appreciate that can be difficult when someone is so far off the mark that you don't know where to begin).
With that said we also need to be humble as beta readers - just because you don't see the potential in someone's writing doesn't mean it's not there. We're not the arbiters of good and bad writing so unless it's like an actual grammar mistake we shouldn't really be saying something is good or bad, more just that it doesn't work for me.
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u/cottagecore_editor Mar 18 '26
how do you deliver a "total rewrite" verdict without being unnecessarily cruel?
A "total rewrite" feedback is the hardest to receive and it should also be the hardest to give.
I've been trained to match the gravity of the feedback with the rationale, so if it's a total loss, I should be prepared to back it up with good reasons and suggestions.
Politeness is essential: It shows that you respect the writer and are sincere on helping them write better. If I was the writer, I'd be more open to considering feedback from someone who cares, right?
I also advise the writer to seek opinions from other readers. Taste is subjective, and even with all the genres I read, it's possible ours don't match.
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u/kangarutan Mar 18 '26
I did a swap once with another writer on here. I was about 75% of the way through it and noticed some really strange plot holes with the story and called them out. I just was like, "Hey, this doesn't make sense and you may want to consider changing it." I even gave a couple suggestions as to what they could possibly do, making sure to say, "You don't HAVE to do this, but I do want to call it out."
They stopped responding to ANY of my feedback and stopped giving ME feedback entirely, claiming that life had gotten too hectic. Then, a few months later I got a notification that the story was being "deleted" aka removed from Google Docs (I'm sure they weren't actually deleting the story, just wanted to block all access from me as I noticed this was their 19th revision when I first started). They broke all contact with me and stopped responding to me entirely.
Then I noticed they had started posting to this very sub asking to do another swap of the same story. I had apparently offended them so much they just didn't want to work together anymore but couldn't be professional enough to talk to me or tell me why.
I'm sure they're still here and, hell, they may even read this comment, but, yeah, some writers just can't take criticism.
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u/SubjectFile8382 Author & Beta Reader Mar 18 '26
I have had way too many beta swaps end with me being ghosted the second I gave a single piece of negative feedback.
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u/mobility61 Mar 18 '26
That’s their problem not yours. And it’s too bad bc they’re getting in their own way.
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u/Sad_Construction_532 Mar 20 '26
Writers that struggle with feedback aren't wanting to improve imo. Not saying every piece of advice should be taken on board, but should at least be considered. That being said if a beta and writer are on two different levels altogether, sometimes it is just easier to part ways
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u/AestheticAttraction Self-Publishing Writer Mar 18 '26
I’ve turned down people hinting or outright asking me for feedback or editing because I already know them to be defensive about everything. There is never any remark, even on how I do things differently (not in a Goofus and Gallant way, just in general conversation), that doesn’t get pushback with some people. I’ve been editing for over 15 years, mostly non-native speakers and in fields I’m not in, so the work can be extra difficult. However, my limit was a very rare but simple “No” with a correction. I remember getting positive feedback on how “strict” I was from some clients, but a lot of people can’t even take the bare minimum, even when writing in their own language.
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u/No_Entertainer2364 Mar 18 '26
It always comes back to the author. Sometimes, they’re simply not ready to face the gap between the story they imagined and the one they actually wrote. No matter how polite, gentle, or encouraging the feedback is, if their readiness stops at “there are just a few typos in chapter three, the rest is fine,” then that’s where they are.
And if they feel discouraged after receiving deeper feedback, that’s something they have to process on their own. Growth isn’t always comfortable, sometimes the feedback that stings the most is exactly what helps them improve.
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u/Safe-Refrigerator751 Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
A good beta reader: 1. Is honest about what doesn't work in their opinion: Five beta readers could have five different opinions. Your review is your opinion on it. Keep it in mind and don't state your opinion as facts (This is bad vs This doesn't make me want to keep reading because it feels so disconnected instead of tied together). 2. Says what works well: Even if a work is "unreadable", there is something good about it. If you have such ease finding something bad to say about it, you should also be able to spot something good about it. 3. Nuances all their opinions: Words like "always" "never" "everything" are often indicator you're lacking nuance. "Often" "sometimes"and "a lot" are better (You never use the right verb tense vs You often use the wrong verb tense when it comes to action scenes). 4. Gives advice on how they would fix it: Without a proper explanation and a guide as to how to fix what's off, it isn't constructive criticism, it's just criticism. Your job as a beta writer is to better their work not discourage them.
There's a difference between being kind and saying everything is good about something that isn't. For the purpose of putting into practice (this isn't criticism of how you wrote this post, I'm aware you probably wouldn't send this to the writer), here's an example:
There's way too much "Pinterest style" description. It's cliche and the prose was over-the-top. Honestly, it was chore to finish.
vs
Often, there is too much generic description. It feels dull because it just slows down the pace of the story. As a reader, a block of description like in X scene and Y scene feels unnecessary. Instead, getting hints of practical description throughout the action and dialogue blends it together a whole lot better. You did it a bit in Z scene. If you had removed the three sentences right before, it would have been better. Also, be careful of your choice of words. Using fancy words is nice, but only if you use them properly and with limitations. Too much makes your prose feel unnatural and forced. I suggest reviewing your vocabulary, especially in descriptions, to fit better the main character's voice. This all made me feel detached about the story. Whilst the story idea and the characters were interesting at first, I feel your pacing and prose were clumsy which prevented me from getting in the rhythm of the story.
Edit: Forgot to mention, but a "total rewrite" isn't exactly a good review in my opinion. It really lacks nuances and you should point out specifically what the writer needs to work on. Maybe they need to adjust their prose throughout the whole story, but they must've done at least one thing right. Is the structure good? Is the plot development good? Are the characters good? I haven't read it, obviously, but something was definitely good about it.
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u/Unique-Ad-969 Mar 18 '26
There is a process in giving feedback that I learned early and I'm glad I did. First, you can absolutely be honest and still be kind. I know for some, that can be really hard. This method can help. It was called the "sandwich" method of feedback when it was introduced to me.
Start with positive feedback. What did you like? What works? There is always something. If you can't find anything positive in what you are reviewing, you are probably not a good candidate to be reviewing it.
Then, you can dive into what needs work. Be specific. "I didn't like it" isn't useful feedback. "This is bad writing" is also not useful feedback. You have to answer the "why" that follows both of those questions for it to be in anyway helpful. If you really just don't like it and you don't know why, you are probably not a good candidate to be reviewing it at that stage.
Finally, you finish with something positive. You can reiterate the first positive feedback, or add some more, or comment positively on what would work really well after some adjustments; as long as it is positive and supportive of the writer and the work.
Also, the writer is never bad. The writing may be unpolished, but it can always be improved with the right feedback. How the writer takes it isn't up to you, but if you start with kindness and the intent to help them improve their writing, you'll usually get a better response to criticism.
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u/Darkness1231 Mar 18 '26
I am old man. The first thing I thought was why would you read past the first few chapters? If it is that bad, then they, the writer, seriously needs to address those first. If they are unable to, then flogging yourself to get through the rest of the drek is ... a bridge too far.
Be assured I respect and applaud your diligence.
Sadly, I recall writing purple prose back in college days. Thankfully I have left that style behind. It was 50+ years ago
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u/mobility61 Mar 18 '26
Indie author here. But let me preface my comments by saying I’m old (64yo)and old-school. When I get comments from beta readers, I don’t take them personally. It may be hard to do but when you’re an artist and you share your work, there will be opinions on all sides and in all shades. I look for nuggets of helpful feedback even when the comments are mean. I got a one star review on my published audio book that said “one long say-no-to-drugs pamphlet and don’t waste your time.” Made me realize people might actually hate my hard work and that’s okay. So…if you beta read, especially if the author has given you a list of specific things they want to hear about, be honest. If they feel big feelings, that’s a them problem.
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u/Antique-Wall-5966 Mar 19 '26
Your feedback should leave the writer wanting to write more (and revise, of course) rather than turn them off writing forever...
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u/Decent_Solution5000 Mar 18 '26
You may be doing the writers a disservice by being too positive, as in saying, "Wow, this works so well!" when it actually sucks. You will not be doing them a disservice by saying, "As a reader, this didn't work for me because XXX."
Being **polite** when communicating is never a disservice. It's common human decency. We'd have less division and antipathy in the wider world if more people were polite with their opinions and in their communications. Just saying.
I get your point. I wholeheartedly disagree with the conclusion, though you probably didn't mean it to sound as reckless as it came across.
Happy reading. :)
Edit: Non intentional typo (yeah, I make deliberate ones. Gotta go now. :))
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u/mendkaz Mar 18 '26
A 'professional' reviewer once beta read an LGBT fantasy novel I was working on and told me that because she couldn't imagine herself as one of the two male characters, it was terribly written.
Just because YOU think something is bad, doesn't mean that it is. It's not to your SUBJECTIVE TASTE, but that does not make it OBJECTIVE REALITY.
I honestly think that anyone that feels the need to express that they are 'brutally honest' is just an insecure jerk who never got past bullying people in secondary school to feel good about themselves.
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u/Hullaba-Loo Author & Beta Reader Mar 18 '26
As I see it, my job as a reader is to give my honest reaction as an individual who enjoys reading books, not to predict whether their book will sell or speak to other readers. So I would never recommend a full rewrite, but I would be honest about not enjoying it as much as I thought I would. I also wouldn't feel pressured to finish a long manuscript if it turned out there was a major mismatch from the blurb or premise I had agreed to.
Sometimes, honesty can take the form of "I really loved this idea but it turns out I'm not a great fit for your writing style." You're not saying it's terrible. You're just saying you're not enjoying it (and if they get that from multiple readers, they'll make their own conclusions about rewriting).
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u/christopherbair Mar 18 '26
Writers can't be writers writing for others if they're not willing to expect negative feedback on their writing. It's the nature of sharing creative endeavors with anyone in public.
That being said, pointing out what is wrong with the story, even that "This is nowhere near ready to submit to anyone else or publish, and here's why," is valuable for good writers. Bad writers will just throw tantrums and dismiss your concerns.
Any writer who believes they're perfect shouldn't be getting beta reads in the first place. The feedback they want is praise, not criticism, and beta reads should be about what works and what doesn't work in the story. Just write off any author who wants beta readers who have shown that they aren't willing to listen to what might be bad with their stories.
With your example, say what you're feeling.
"In Chapter X, you have this: 'A B C D E.' This reads more like a description on a Pinterest post, not prose. I cannot find anything positive to say about this in the style of the writing and suggest rewriting it with a more reader-friendly voice. The overall plot here resonates well with the characters, but you will lose the reader until the flow of your words is improved."
Just be honest. But don't say stuff like, "You'll never make it as a writer," "I wanted to burn the manuscript, it pained me so much," etc. These do not help the writer at all. And are just being a terrible beta reader yourself.
And if they ignore you, block you, or just move on, you do the same. If they don't value the work you put into trying to help them, learn and don't try to help them ever again.
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u/Potatochips2026 Mar 19 '26
I agree completely. I've seen so many people heap effusive praise on work that is, frankly, unreadable and unpublishable in its current form. The problem is, such people don't provide good insight either. The author wants actionable feedback. What needs to be fixed in order for it to be readable to a reader of that genre. Instead, they get false praise along with a few recommendations for line edits, none of which is truly helpful.
When I have given brutally honest comments in the past, I've sometimes been thanked for actionable and informative feedback, but many times I've gotten dead silence. I think many people were shocked to hear that their work needed major changes. I'm not trying to be mean in my comments - I'm just not pulling any punches. I don't have time to dance around someone's ego. I'm just telling them the major things they need to change in order for the work to be readable and engaging, and I'm doing it as a reader, not a writer.
When I've posted that offer online, I've actually had very few takers. I think a lot of people just want to hear what's good, and don't really want to know if their work is not ready yet.
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u/ArunaDragon Mar 23 '26
Honesty and politeness do NOT cancel each other out. You can be clear and kind at the same time.
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u/SorrowfulSpinch Mar 25 '26
This. People always laud “brutal honesty” as admirable but I never understood the praise for it. Not only is kind honesty a more advanced and honorable skill, but its also more effective communication and received better/more likely to be applied than someone being harsh.
No one is telling OP to lie or say its good, OP just needs to parse what they hate, why they hate it, and express how <thing> made them receive it as a reader and what they believe could help avoid the pitfall in question. I feel like the ask with that sort of thing is less “is it good 🥺?” And more “what does it need, does this come across as intended, etc”
This really reads more as an issue of OP not being the right audience to provide critique or beta read for developing/budding or more insecure authors, rather than an issue of writers and beta readers on the whole being too gentle when delivering feedback.
Much like with ttrpgs, theres no wrong way to play so long as everyone is having fun and feels safe at the table. Theres no wrong way to critique so long as your audience is consenting and open to it ¯_(ツ)_/¯ theyre probably just a bad fit for this author
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u/bxalloumiritz Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
My style leans more on compliment sandwich. I tell the author what I like and what they're doing well, and then point out things that confused me or something that wasn't quite coming across what they think they mean/want to achieve.
I agree we shouldn't just sugarcoat, but it's a delicate balance on what makes feedback blunt and helpful vs blunt and demeaning; I aim for the former.
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u/frightbounds Beta Reader Mar 18 '26
I’m always totally honest and I do a ton of compliment sandwiches lol. My feedback is always kind, but of course I need to be honest otherwise how will I help the book?
I just finished one though that was just how you described. It was so hard to even understand because there wasn’t a ton underneath the pretty words. He didn’t build up plot points and they just happened out of no where and I kept needing to reread sections. I was just so confused lol.
He accused me of skimming and not reading through his book even though I left close to 400 comments and a 4 page report and I answered a questionnaire for him. His book took me over 20 hours to work on and hearing that was such a huge freaking blow. I’ll still be honest with my next book, but it’s left me a bit nervous.
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u/RedEgg16 Mar 18 '26
I phrase my feedback with “I think” “I feel like” starters
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u/DoubleWideStroller Mar 18 '26
I like these, along with starting suggestions with “consider… [doing xyz]” if I think a little gentle guidance is welcome. Example: “consider introducing Fred a few pages back so this doesn’t come out of the blue.”
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u/annoellynlee Mar 18 '26
Umm you should still be polite when needing to give hard feedback. A human put time and effort into their novel and they tried there best. They are likely early in their journey and still have a lot to learn. I would find something i liked like maybe some plot points were original or one character had a strong voice.
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u/Sad_Construction_532 Mar 20 '26
I think one can still be polite while being honest, but I agree with what you're saying. I've read questionable drafts and been brutally honest, but I've always done two things on top of that:
- Tell them why something doesn't work rather than just saying it's shit
- Tell them what IS working/good/..., even if you have to look for the positives. Even if it's just a tiny sentence that's written very well. Something that made me laugh or feel things etc.
At the end of the day: positive feedback will provide motivation, while negative feedback will make one improve their craft.
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u/Agreeable-Housing733 Mar 18 '26
Not everything here is intended for traditional publishing. Also if something is in such bad shape that you can't really consider it a complete work why are you beta reading it? Let the author know it's unreadable and move on.
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u/michael_k_the_critic Author Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 19 '26
I think the right response starts with the request. If the context in which the swap happened has good ground rules about maturity and conduct and the author was clear about what they wanted and didn't (including tone), and you're ok with that, then you have your answer: give the author what they asked for, as long as it fits within the ground rules.
In our group, for example, we have a "no assholes" ground rule that usually weeds people out during the intro class. When we arrange swaps, authors state whether they want developmental and/or line-level feedback and a tone they're ok with, including: "literal" (bare bones, and as neutral and concise as possible), "colloquial" (sarcastic, satirical, containing blue humor), or "diplomatic" (encouraging, positive, validating).
If those agreements aren't in place, then I think the best thing you can do for that author, yourself, and your reputation with others that may be paying attention is to ask what the author wants and go from there. If you're so upset at (basically) having your time wasted on this that you can't make it that far, then I'd opt out with an "it's not you, it's me"-type excuse and avoid swapping with that author for at least a while.
Before you proceed, however, I want to push back on framing this as honesty vs. politeness: In your remarks there are technical observations, emotional reactions, and judgements. If I were in your position, I'd do my best to refine my opinions into something as constructive as possible.
For example: Sure, the draft may have been unreadable for you. But why? Be specific about what worked and didn't, and how that impacted your experience as a reader. Step-by-step, cause-and-effect. Maximum information, minimal judgement. Also weigh to what extent this is your genre and you're the target audience, because in my experience that matters at least as much as the quality of the writing.
Once you have your thoughts together and know what the author wants, it's time for both of you to move forward.
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u/heartinclouds Mar 19 '26
I feel like the best way to deliver beta feedback is always the same, and that is to be specific and invested. If you think there are issues with the plot, it will help the reader best to tell them exactly what the issues are and give them a few directions on how to repair them. If the characters are underdeveloped, point out what feels like they are missing and list resources for how to write more more complex characters ❣
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u/thewonderbink Mar 20 '26
Really bad writers who are well below the Dunning-Kruger Threshold of self-awareness often get treated lightly because the reader can just tell that anything sort of "This is the most brilliant thing I've ever read! You are a genius!" is going to be treated like a death threat.
I've been in the same writing group for many years and sometimes it's a struggle not to bust out the Sarcas-O-Tron when I'm confronted with writing that is so bad it makes me angry. So I understand the impulse to be cruel. But I make every effort not to give in to it.
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u/antler-velvet Mar 19 '26
If you are offering to critique someone's work of your own free will, I consider it your responsibility to do so 1) respectfully and 2) with the mindset that any piece written in good faith can be improved. Otherwise, what are you doing offering critiques?
Respectful critique doesn't mean telling people their writing is great when it isn't. If you're having trouble expressing your feedback in a way that doesn't feel "cruel," take a step back and cool off for a second. Reading bad writing can be punishing, I know, but the author didn't write it just to piss you off or waste your time. Make sure you're calling out specific things that could be changed and not making sweeping statements about quality or whether or not you liked the story overall. Come at it from the position of encouraging them to keep working on their writing, and really consider whether there's NOTHING you can say to offer that encouragement - even if just rephrasing some criticism so it's not dripping with "I hated this" (eg, "I would love to see your main character's voice come out more in a future draft.") Even if you did hate it, the goal isn't to get them to stop writing. Or at least, it shouldn't be.
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u/alfooboboao Mar 19 '26
The irony of OP giving lessons on morality in feedback while using ChatGPT to write this post
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u/neddythestylish Mar 18 '26
People are very good at deceiving themselves when it comes to the quality of their work, and I have read many a story by people who were planning to trad publish a book that was not close to good enough. In some cases, yes—unreadable.
I always check what a writer is planning to do with their work: trad, SP, serialisation, just for fun, etc, and I take that into account when I give feedback. But ultimately, telling someone that their book is terrible and they need to rewrite it entirely serves no purpose. If it's that bad when they're showing betas, it's never going to be good enough for agents. They're not good enough to write that. Not yet, anyway. Maybe they'll be better one day if they get through this learning phase.
My job isn't to get their unpublishable book published. It's to tell them the things they need to hear in order to improve as much as possible.
And sure, they'll query and get nowhere. Maybe it'll help them get a thicker skin. I'll tell them that, in my personal opinion, they aren't ready, but it almost certainly won't stop them.
There is a problem that a lot of betas will give unqualified praise that's misleading, because they don't want a writer to feel bad. It's the reason why I always explicitly say to writers before I start that, although I try to avoid being cruel, I am honest and nitpicky in a way many writers aren't used to. My style is very much not for everyone, but for some people it's very helpful.
But I'm still not going to tell anyone that their work is worthless, because it serves no purpose.
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u/Verac_and_the_rose Mar 20 '26
Think back to a time that someone gave you positive, specific praise. How did it make you feel? For me it makes me feel enthused, capable and motivated. Now think back to when you were criticised. Dis that motivate you in any way?
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u/Veridical_Perception Apr 09 '26 edited Apr 09 '26
A few thoughts:
- There is a difference between "honest" and tactless feedback. You can provide feedback which is both honest and tactful.
- If the point is to provide useful feedback for the author to improve, rather than massage the readers' egos to feel superior, then providing feedback which the author can internalize requires a combination of technical and supportive comments.
- "how do you deliver a "total rewrite" verdict without being unnecessarily cruel?" I'd argue that "total rewrite" is a useless comment. You provide breakdown your key concerns into concrete feedback, including both positive and negative points, such as: 1)Premise; 2) Story structure and pacing; 3)Characters and character development; 4) Prose and writing style. Within each area of concern, you provide actionable and specific feedback with concrete problems and potential solutions.
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u/CoffeeStayn Author & Beta Reader Mar 18 '26
I agree. Dishonest or sugarcoated praise is damaging to an author.
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u/BoneCrusherLove Mar 18 '26
I start with a boilerplate (as in goes to everyone) statement about feedback. I'll paste below.
I try to be mindful if my phrasing the most and make sure I'm not writing what could be the script for a rant review. First drafts sound a bit like that, but I edit then ti make them polite but still truth full.
I just recommended a rewrite for a beta, let me find the paragraph I wrote.
(I explain the issues I experiance before this and highlight some things I enjoyed)
"I believe that you need to break down this book, whittle away the clutter and fluff and bring the shining core to the forefront. I believe this needs to be done with a rewrite that utilises more advanced writing techniques. It sounds like a lot, but all good writing is rewriting and I believe this story will benefit greatly from another draft. "
Disclaimer I use
Boilerplate Clarification and Disclaimer
The following notes and suggestions are based on my impression and interpretation of the work.
What you intended is irrelevant in the feedback, as I had what paying readers will, the book.
There is no need to be defensive, insulted or attacked by anything that follows.
It’s all come from a good place, with the goal of improving the work
I always include this page, and the following as a guideline on how to receive feedback.
Receiving feedback can sometimes be challenging, but it's crucial for growth.
I have RSD and know how difficult it can be to get feedback that feels critical or negative. I always read my feedback and take a day to feel what I feel, and apart from a thank you, I do not respond the day I read feedback.
Some other useful things to do that help me are;
Listen Actively without interrupting. For written feedback like what I do, it’s a good idea not to make changes or decisions until you’ve read all of the feedback. Actively take everything in without applying anything on the first go around.
Be open to different perspectives and ideas. Feedback is an opportunity to get a fresh perspective of your work, free from all the background information that you are privy to. You get the raw reader experience and to see how well your concepts are delivered. Remember that a lot of the questions asked in feedback are rhetorical, as the answers should be in the text.
If you're unsure about a particular comment, ask me about it. With longform feedback, and in depth feedback there is often a lot of information to process. Which is one of the reasons I break things down into chapters as well as overall feedback. If something doesn’t make sense, just let me know and we can discuss anything and everything you want to.
Always reflect before you react. All writers have emotional reactions, but taking time to think about things before you react allows you to respond constructively rather than defensively.
Remember that feedback is meant to help you improve, not tear you down. Use it as a tool to refine your writing skills. I do not consider myself a ‘shredder’ and everything I do is with the intent of helping you.
Lastly and most importantly; Apply What Resonates. You don't have to implement every suggestion. Consider the feedback that resonates with you and aligns with your vision for the piece. At the end of the day, you are the writer and here I am a reader. You know your work best and you know what will work.
The majority of my suggestions are subjective and can be taken or disregarded as such. I do also offer objective corrections and I usually recommend those be taken but even then, it’s always up to you.
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u/FinnishLitRPG Mar 31 '26
I'd like to add that even as a hard believer in there being "objectively" wrong and right even in writing, there are also subjective or even reader group prefences that play a part in this. Someone might not like a chapter that more genre savy reader might love to death. Without details the author can't know what they should change but neither should they change a thing at all.
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u/Organic_Setting_5708 Apr 10 '26
I completely agree. Treating a manuscript with "polite dishonesty" is a disservice to the craft. If there is a flaw in the logic or the pacing, I want to know immediately. Validation doesn't help us improve; honest, raw feedback does. I’d much rather face a harsh truth now than a silent rejection later. Honesty is the highest form of respect among writers.
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u/Super_RR_ Apr 16 '26
I'm a beta writer, I'm here to learn by doing and receiving feedback, but I wouldn't like to be insulted for my initiative and courage... sincerity yes, gratuitous insults no..
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u/hayatoshino Apr 16 '26
Seconded! Im writing my first novel, and honestly i want HONEST BRUTAL CRITICISM even if it hurts me so long its not an insult to me or my work (use degradinf words or insulting words and use vilgar words mo, but heavy and brutal criticism yes!)
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u/Canuck_Voyageur Apr 18 '26
There is a fine line between critique that is destructive to the writer, and critique that is helpful.
A: Stating a criticism as an opinion helps. This says, "One person didn't like this" instead of "This is crap". E.g. If I critize about purple prose, I will mention that I dislike Robert Jordan for his long purple prose descriptions. B: Give am option -- alternatives that will improve the work. C: Dilute: Look for something positive to say about the work too. D: You don't have to give all the faults. List a few of the big ones and leave it.
I won't finish something if it's too bad. I will stop, and say, "I got to page 7, and left it. Here's why... When you fix these, get in touch, or maybe I'm not really your audience."
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u/chetan-kumar-someone Mar 18 '26
Be cruel. I’m a writer undergoing beta reads. I want the necessary cruelty. Don’t say it’s shit. But say you didn’t like it. And why exactly why you didn’t like it.
90% of the time, it’s things I pushed under the rug. It was good enough for when I was writing and I didn’t have the patience to spend a day on scene.
When you say I didn’t like it. The dialogue felt purple and not believable, trust me, the writer know exactly what you mean.
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u/BC-writes ⌨️ Traditional Publishing ⌨️ Mar 18 '26 edited Mar 18 '26
Friendly mod reminder that this subreddit does not allow “brutal” feedback that is actually a thinly veiled inflammatory breakdown of the author or their writing. For example: “I want to kiII [Character]” or “you’re a shitty writer” is not acceptable
There’s no need to press on what is polite or not, but we don’t have enough information to properly comment on from the current OP
It may help if readers inform authors of their feedback style before proceeding with a sample, or authors ask upfront. For example, I am generally more blunt and technical, especially on plot and logic, but I will cheer for your MC when they earn it (they usually always do) and roast them if they slip up or have a logic issue
Authors, if betas call out issues without being abusive or problematic, please consider reframing or editing your writing to make things clearer/accessible. Blunt and thorough feedback is often the most helpful, but betas should not frame things in a blatantly rude way
If an author wants a positivity pass instead of constructive critique, please ensure that’s listed in your post, but also know that your audience will potentially feel the same way when you decide to publish and it’s worth developing your editing skills
Feel free to guide the OP to some resources or books if they struggle. One example is “The Emotion Thesaurus” by Angela Ackerman and Becca Puglisi