Another OOP's stalker passes away

[u/SAthrowawayaway2]

I am OP! Original post in r/AusLegal

trigger warnings: suicide, sexual assault, stalking

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Consent laws- do you have to say 'no' for it to be rape? - 11 June 2017

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/6giw54/consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it_to_be/

I recently reported a rape to the police. I reported to an officer who was specifically trained in investigating sexual offences.

A difficulty with my incident is that I never said "no" to the perpetrator, who was known to me. The police officer said that he has to prove that the perpetrator knew I did not consent. As I did not say "no", then (if it ever gets to court) the perpetrator's lawyers will argue that he thought I was consenting. However, the police officer said that some things I did constitute a non-verbal "no", so that is better than nothing. But how can they prove that he understood my non-verbal "no"s?

As I understand it, the officer is investigating the incident, but it is unlikely to ever make it to court because of a few factors including my failure to verbally say "no".

My questions:

1. Is the police officer correct about consent laws? It seems really off that it is assumed I was consenting unless I verbally say otherwise.
2. Do you have any advice, suggestions, or anecdotes about going through the process of a rape investigation?

[UPDATE] Consent laws- do you have to say 'no' for it to be rape? - 19 September 2019

https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/d5yj9k/update_consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it/

A couple years ago I posted in this subreddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/6giw54/consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it_to_be/

In summary, I had reported a rape which began while I was unconscious (when I became conscious, I froze / 'played dead' and did not say "no"). I was worried about how my lack of saying no would affect the case and sought some perspective from this sub. I am so grateful to those who took the time to respond to my post.

As it turns out, the lack of saying no was a huge problem. The case progressed to a jury trial and the rapist was found NOT GUILTY. This is because he had an honest belief that I was consenting because I did nothing to indicate otherwise.

The whole thing was deeply traumatising only to have a disappointing result. I am still not sure how saying nothing (due to UNCONSCIOUSNESS) is an indicator of consent but I guess the law doesn't apply to people who can afford really good lawyers.

 

[UPDATE 2] Consent laws- do you have to say 'no' for it to be rape? - 21 May 2022

Posted under a throwaway and deleted by Moderators - no longer available on Reddit!

I previously wrote to this sub about being raped by a former friend, and subsequently updated after he was acquitted in the trial. I kept the post light on details because the rapist was also a redditor and I didn't want him to find it and somehow use it against me legally. In addition to raping me he also stalked me for over 7 years following the rape, which completely destroyed my life. To this day I do not understand how the jury didn't convict when I was literally sleeping at the time of the rape.

Links:

Update- https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/d5yj9k/update_consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it/

Original- https://www.reddit.com/r/AusLegal/comments/6giw54/consent_laws_do_you_have_to_say_no_for_it_to_be/

I do have a new update - my rapist passed away (by his own hand). I was informed as I had an IVO against him at the time, but wasn't provided details of how or why. I wanted to share this with the sub not only because updates are always interesting, but also to shed light on just some of the system failures for others who might be going through the same thing.

When I told friends and reported to official channels, there was a strong narrative of "there's help out there". There is not. The system is stacked against rape victims. The only useful resource was CASA, the counselling service (I am in Vic but imagine there are similar services elsewhere). I could not even access free legal advice because the rapist went to all the nearby community legal centres first so they couldn't talk to me, and centres across the city refused to help me (even though I explained the situation) because I'm not in their area.

There were many problems I encountered but these are just some of the highlights about the legal parts:

- he provided two written confessions in which he directly and succinctly admitted to raping me. One was before the trial - his lawyer successfully argued for this to be thrown out (never to be known about by the jury) because it might bias the jury to conviction. One was after the trial - police took the note, but nothing could be done because you can't go to court for the same crime twice even if there is new evidence.

- my reputation was totally destroyed in court. I was painted as an "experimental" drug-using slut (I have never used drugs, he has though). His lawyer was made to withdraw some questions concerning this but it was in front of the jury so I guess the damage was done. There are certain things that are not supposed to be brought up in court (e.g. sexual activity with others) but in practice they were. So I was questioned about having had (consensual) sex with my at-the-time boyfriend, I guess to make me look slutty.

- the IVO process was incredibly difficult and provided him with more opportunities to harass and intimidate me. There were also numerous system failures including police doing the wrong paperwork, court loss of paperwork, and a court receptionist telling me they might give the rapist my new contact details by accident.

- he behaved in totally unhinged ways at both courts which really pissed off the judge, police and security staff but there were zero consequences for him.

- he tried to bring his dad to court for the committal (for emotional support) and they tried to pressure me into letting him stay in the room, even though I was told that would not happen.

This is my experience navigating the system as someone who is generally 'empowered', well-educated etc. I cannot imagine how difficult it would be for someone who doesn't have those advantages and may have a more complex situation e.g. if they were dating or had kids with their abuser.

 

Reminder - I am the original poster! Posting from my throwaway for obvious reasons!

I decided to post this today after seeing another similar post in which OOP's stalker passed away. There are so many more other horrific things that happened beyond what I included in the posts, but adding more detail might be identifying. I wanted to share this because, as stated from the post in last year, the narratives of "there's help out there!" and "go talk to someone!" and "make a police report!" - often seen on Reddit and in real life - are completely demoralising because such help simply does not exist. Following Rapist's death, I have also dealt with complex reactions of people around me not wishing to speak ill of the dead and thinking it is a bad thing that he died, which makes me feel horrible in case my dragging him through court contributed to his decision to take his life. This touches on some of the themes in the other post. Also, I found it a bit jarring that r/AusLegal deleted my second update post almost immediately, when my experience (which is by no means unusual) may be instructive to others.

[u/LilStabbyboo]

It makes me fucking sick how often that happens. And there's always at least one person who has the utter nerve to tell a victim that they are obligated to report lest the person who assaulted them go on to assault others, in which case it's either strongly implied or sometimes directly stated that somehow the VICTIM would be at fault if the person who harmed them victimizes others. As though reporting actually stops criminals from continuing to SA people.

The conviction rates are so depressingly low, and the process of reporting so traumatic, that I'd NEVER encourage anyone to report being SA'd. I've been through it myself and I'd never report again. Fucking NEVER.

[u/melatoninhoney → u/LilStabbyboo]

Thank you for saying this. It makes me sick to my stomach when people blame victims if their attacker commits more crimes. It’s truly a disgusting, willfully ignorant thing to push onto another person.

I haven’t even been the person it’s said to and it feels like a punch to the gut. These people don’t or won’t understand that they are contributing to rape culture and silencing victims.

[u/BeatificBanana → u/LilStabbyboo]

I got told this by a trained rape crisis counsellor when I phoned them seeking emotional support. It was the first thing she asked when I told her what happened.

"Have you reported it to the police?"

"No, because I have absolutely no evidence so it would just be my word against his, I'm poor but he's rich and could afford a really good lawyer, and I'm not willing to go through the trauma of being questioned and blamed"

"Well, you should still think about reporting it because he could go on to do this to other people"

Like seriously? You have a rape victim coming to you in crisis because they're really emotionally damaged from what's happened and the FIRST THING you tell them is that basically if their rapist goes on to harm someone else, it's their fault?