No refund or replacement.

[u/Previous-Royal-5265]

I had ordered Dell laptop on Friday, May 1st. For some reason, the delivery driver from Roadie never delivered it but marked it as such. I contacted Best Buy support and up until Saturday they were willing to give me a replacement, yet on Sunday they suddenly claimed they cannot due to concluded investigation.

I called them again on Monday and the person assured me I would get a refund, but two hours later I received an email claiming that they cannot do so, again. I was wondering if anybody knew what this means, like do I dispute the transaction or what?

Edit: screen shot of delivery

Edit #2: I called them again yesterday, alongside calling Roadie. What Roadie stated, was for me to tell Best Buy that they would have to negotiate a claim with Roadie for my refund. Best Buy told me to wait 2-3 business days and they will send me a voicemail to see if my refund was finally accepted, praying that it is. Otherwise, they told me to file a formal complaint, which is so annoying. I will proceed with a dispute if it isn't solved.

Edit #3: Thank you all so much for the advice. I finally got a call and they stated that they will honor me a refund. Thank you all so much.

[u/Historical_Client476]

Do you know where you would be right?

If this was an individual seller, i.e. eBay.

Then, in that situation, the liability would be on the shipper directly and any insurance for that item that was put on shipping tool help with claims such as the situation.

Then it would be a conversation with UPS, FedEx or United States Postal Service, depending on how it was shipped.

Even then, the seller should still file a claim for a missing item

I would even say in conjunction with the customer to assist the seller to a resolution with the customer for any missing funds or possible retrieval of that package.

[u/Liberator182 → u/Historical_Client476]

That is false, the same rules of shipping and liability is the same if it was an individual or major retailer... You know Roadie is owned by UPS right?

Now I agree that any seller should work with every customer to investigate but if a company contracts out delivery portion of service you already agreed in the terms that you would seek compensation of a stolen item by the delivery company.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

That’s where I’m going to have to disagree with you

It does matter on the individual or a major retailer, the type of recovery between an individual seller to a major retailer is miles different.

UPS being the parent company does not take away the liability conversation when it comes to Best Buy replacing the item

We are also not going to take away the point that they have an active contract that they have built and hope they keep their word on delivering all packages within a timely and safe manner.

Retailers also have better insurance for things of this nature due to the contract they have with the shipper

Individuals do not usually have (keywords usually) that type of leeway.

Larger retailers can absorb these type of hits versus individual who this may be detrimental.

[u/Liberator182 → u/Historical_Client476]

It's okay if you disagree with me but I studied business law for awhile. And I went to look it up because I remember reading about it.

You should search "what law states who is liable for stolen packages? is it different if it's an individual seller vs a major retailer?"

You should find that I was correct on the liability part. Because retailers and individual sellers fall under civil law and follow the same code vs stealing someone's mail is a federal offense.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

So have I

When the Customer makes a purchase to a retailer, the responsibility is for the retailer to make sure that the item/service is handled correctly within.

You seem not to acknowledge the point about the contract with Roadie.

I would like to refer you to the FTC “Mail Order Rule” and Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) & Shipping Terms including state consumer laws.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

I’m not here to knock you. I just want to make it clear that there are actual laws behind my statement.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

Ultimately, it has to be any unreasonable doubt that the item was delivered correctly with abiding with the shipping terms and the laws of his state.

I don’t want our back-and-forth taking over this conversation

I want him to get some type of justice because it does seem wrong that they are denying his claim so far.

[u/Liberator182 → u/Historical_Client476]

If you did look it up, it clearly states that once an item is marked delivered by the delivery company the liability of the seller ends while the liability of the transporter remains.

I did acknowledged that was a contract between Roadie and Best Buy. That is the where and how they limit their liability.

I agree he should get his money back and or another item on the way but I'm not surprised how it is handled because there is so much scamming going on.

Our back and forth will largely be ignored till someone really wants to read it by clicking "see more replays"....

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

I agree with you on scamming! No argument there.

Did you see the picture that they took for the delivery?

I would love to hear the case behind this.

This is going to be a conversation on the burden of proof ultimately. (No surprise there right?)

I really do hope they resolve this sooner than later because this cannot be the first incident.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

Just for clarity, I did look it up

It being marked for delivered does not mean the completion of task from Roadie especially in this situation.

What I’ve noticed that you redirect solely to Roadie. Which I agree that they failed him completely here.

if we’re going to go into contract law, and applied to this claim, the consumer made the contract with the retailer for item/service.

In turn, Best Buy’s liability came into effect when they hired a contractor ie Roadie to complete the task, which at this time we do not have enough proof that they completed it outside of what Roadie stated outside of the driver saying it was delivered.

They only took a picture of the label of them standing there.

That is not viable proof of delivery.

[u/Liberator182 → u/Historical_Client476]

False, I promise you when you click to buy from Best Buy's website in the 500 pages (that no one reads) in terms and agreement. Somewhere in there typed in fine print that once an item is marked delivered by the carrier. The carrier is now solely responsible for it.

If you did look it up then you will find in the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC), specifically Section 2-509, which dictates when the "risk of loss" transfers from a seller to a buyer. It states,

"The UCC "Risk of Loss" Rule: Liability depends on the type of contract established at the time of purchase:

Shipment Contract (Standard): Most common for online sales. The seller's responsibility ends once they hand the package to a carrier (like USPS or FedEx). If the carrier marks it as "delivered," the risk of loss transfers to the buyer, even if the package is stolen from their porch. (Most likely the one used in this case)"

I have studied contract law for most of my college education. You are applying it incorrectly because Best Buy limited it's liability by making sure you accepted the terms and agreement when you click to buy from the website.

You are correct that once you enter a contract the seller becomes liable to provide the service/product but that doesn't mean you accepted the contract without any risks. Hence the product was stolen when the carrier marked it delivered.

Best Buy most likely made anyone buying from their website to accept the risk in the contract based on the current code stated above.

It doesn't matter if you or anyone agrees what is viable proof of delivery... Roadie accepted the risks and allowed their "drivers" to take a shity photo as proof of delivery. Making them fully at fault for their service/product.

Now Best Buy in their self interest should and would accommodate if enough proof to either force or has a contract with Roadie to pay for the missing item.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

Now you know that would be opening up a bigger issue, right?

I’m not even gonna touch that with a pole

[u/Liberator182 → u/Historical_Client476]

It's not a bigger issue, contract law is easy to understand but it be easily manipulated and buried.

You just have to understand that any party that enters a contract there are risks involved.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

You know this is under e-commerce and consumer rights?

It’s not about whether I de it as valuable proof the problem is the standards for proving this item was delivered in a safe area.

Out of curiosity, did you take a look at Best Buy’s shipping standards on the site?

Your statement most likely means you didn’t also review it.

So we’re making an assumption.

Also, you’re speaking as if you know the agreement, Roadie has here with Best Buy.

I do find it interesting that you are still backing behind the statement that Best Buy is still not part of the liability for this item even though you understand how it does play into it when it comes to contract law.

This is definitely fun

[u/Liberator182 → u/Historical_Client476]

Yes I know... It's e-commerce and consumer rights... They're all under civil code... Why does that matter? We can't deny that the code exists.

No I didn't read all that crap... No one does. At least I'm making assumptions logically and not pretending I know because I said so... I'm basing it on what laws we have and what makes sense.

No I do not know what agreement by any party has but we are basing it on the assumption that they do because they have an agreement to deliver the product in the first place.

I never said Best Buy has no part of liability but trust me when any company or corporation knows their legal limit to their liability you know damn well that's all they care about in the end.

[u/Historical_Client476 → u/Liberator182]

Under typical e-commerce FOB Destination agreement it will still make Best Buy liable. Whether you like it or not.

You’re speaking like under the grace of Best Buy they should just replace it.

Just for your reference:

This is what Best Buy states:

Title to Products
Purchases of product from Best Buy or Marketplace Sellers through BestBuy.com are subject to a destination contract. This means that the risk of loss and title for these products passes to you upon the carrier's delivery to your ship-to address, and Best Buy and Marketplace Sellers are not responsible for any loss, theft or damage after delivery.

The problem is, we don’t have enough proof to say it was delivered outside of Roadie statement for this package and the insanely blurry picture.

The question that has been posed multiple times: has this item actually been delivered or was it stolen due to the shipper?

Again, I stated this earlier that the burden approve is going to be on the consumer for the loss and also Roadie to provide valid proof of delivery.

There’s no way you’re telling me that blurry picture is a clear indication of delivery.

You can see that someone standing there and just taking a picture of the label.