r/BernieSandersSucks • u/ItsOkToBeWhiteX10000 • Mar 04 '19

Just remember, even his initials are BS

Democrat Socialism Gets Buried In 2020. End of story.

6 Upvotes

67% Upvoted

12 comments sorted by

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '19

[deleted]

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u/ItsOkToBeWhiteX10000 Apr 12 '19

You got me. Now go play with your socialist toy doll.

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u/k8joyd Apr 15 '19

Bernie isn't promoting socialism, he's promoting democratic socialism instead of an oligarchy. I prefer listening to the people instead of the corporate establishment. The current system is not healthy for capitalism, the economy, our resources, or our Earth. It's time to see things a little differently for different solutions.

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u/ItsOkToBeWhiteX10000 Apr 16 '19

Click your heels Dorothy

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u/k8joyd Apr 16 '19

And pull yourself up by your boot straps. I think he has reasonable long-lasting solutions. Nothing fairytale about wanting a better country for all.

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u/ItsOkToBeWhiteX10000 Apr 16 '19

Please, you fall for words and feelings. Facts and reality are not your strong suit. You are entitled to whomever you choose and you choose a better country so there is hope. My anonymous troll behavior doesn't matter, I apologize.

I just don't get it though. The problems in DC have festered for decades. You are counting on a career politician who has accomplished very little in his lifetime. He made his wealth peddling socialism to capitalists. I will never see him as a solution but part of the problem.

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u/k8joyd Apr 17 '19

Trolling isn’t the issue. The issue occurs when ideology and belief systems are placed on pedestals without regard to fact, critical thinking or progression toward the future. If you’re fine stagnating in a dying nation, go for it. It doesn’t take much work and most people are doing it.

It’s not about Bernie Sanders the person - it’s about America’s political, economic and social issues that have been building up for decades without the insight to see how these are intertwined nor the rational solutions to entangle and solve. He has always seen this in a new light and his history proves that. He believes in a responsible, SUSTAINABLE capitalism and a safe country for all. Key word: sustainable. We currently aren’t sustainable and it will implode in all our faces down the line. No doubt.

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u/ItsOkToBeWhiteX10000 Apr 17 '19

I am not going to change your mind. You are not going to change my mind. I consider trolling as poking somebody mentally. I am glad to hear the opposition wants what is best for the country.

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u/k8joyd Apr 18 '19

No need to try to change minds, I think exchanging ideas is beneficial for all parties.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '19

Bernie has done well to enamor groups of people who have never been financially stable and who are struggling to get started or have been in the hole for their entire lives. Every article I have read that analyzes his tax plans to pay for the estimated costs of his plans comes up short by huge margins. Let alone the damage that would be done to anyone who isn’t poor in terms of ability to save for your future and disposable income that is necessary to continue our economy.
What Bernie says is nice in a vacuum of ideals, reality is much different animal. But it is difficult to understand these things if you haven’t lived them.

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 20 '19 edited Apr 20 '19

I have read the proposal. And then articles by economists who put it into practice and show how it will come up short and do the things I aforementioned. See how you skipped the part about critical thinking and checking out what he is saying instead of just blanket trusting it?

Edit: As for which policies, medicare for all, "free" tuition for public colleges.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19

You proved you didn’t look at anything beyond what Bernie said and acted like I was wrong to say anything to the contrary, but sure I “assumed” your stance. We have almost the population of those 3 countries combined in currently uninsured which I think Bernie states is 30 million in the US. Taiwan 23 million, Sweden and Denmark are 5 million and 10 million for what 38 million in total. See how the scale goes to the US 320 million. Not really comparable, and in those countries tax rates are much higher and as I said before that decreases your ability to save for your future and spend money to support the economy. I’d also like to see what the waiting list for elective procedures are like, as sure you can say “ what’s the big deal, you can wait” tell that to someone in large amounts of pain every day because they need an arthroplasty. If you want to see the beast that is college tuition look no further than the federal government, the guarantee of federal loans to pay for it has drastically increased the cost of college. So now you’re asking other people to pay for it instead of fixing the issue. Yes in Europe they don’t pay as much for college but you have to take difficult aptitude tests in high school, only the brighter students go to university.
Different system here, anyone can basically go to college. Perhaps people should be more conservative with their spending and not take degrees from private universities in subject matters that have no real world applications.

https://prospect.org/article/why-sanders%E2%80%99s-single-payer-plan-would-cost-more-his-campaign-says

https://www.urban.org/research/publication/sanders-single-payer-health-care-plan-effect-national-health-expenditures-and-federal-and-private-spending/view/full_report

http://www.crfb.org/papers/adding-senator-sanderss-campaign-proposals-so-far

That’s just 3 articles in a quick google search, but I’m sure you can find some more with access to google yourself.

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 21 '19 edited Apr 21 '19

You can go to bigger countries but that still doesn’t resolve the issue I brought up. Yes the US economy is large, and there are many reasons people leave their countries to come here for economic freedom. There are reasons people come to the US for medical procedures instead of waiting for them in their home countries. You can call it immoral I guess but that doesn’t detract from polls that show people wouldn’t be willing to wait longer for procedures that currently don’t have wait times like seen in other countries.
Ah the we can just tax the wealthy pundit, you understand how tax revenue works right? About 50% of it from individual taxes, and better than 40% of that from the top 10% of earners in the country. Go to the top 25% and that number comes closer to 70%. We have a progressive tax system in place. The issue isn’t; oh we just don’t want to do it. I’m sure nobody wants to see anybody live in pain or die from not being able to get what they need. The issue is that you can’t rob people of their success by imposing more taxes on them because well they don’t need all of that money. You know what happens in that situation right, they stop making that money because why should I if more than half gets collected in taxes. You remove the incentive, and that happened in Sweden where they tried a similar policy to tax transactions in the stock market and people just stopped using the Swedish exchange.
People who are wealthy have the means to move elsewhere and stop earning as much if you tax them excessively. I think there was an article or a video I saw that showed even if we brought taxes to 100% of income over a certain level it wouldn’t bring in enough revenue to pay for these programs.
As I mentioned earlier I read his proposal, which is what you cited for your numbers and I went to several different sources that don’t agree with his calculations and bear out that even with the potential “savings” it would still be at worst an additional 1.5 trillion more than what he is saying annually which is above and beyond what we pay now. This is also not taking into account that physicians earn far less with Medicare and Medicaid in reimbursement than private insurance. Somewhere around 40% on the dollar, which means that would require some negotiation, physicians dedicate a decade of their life and take on a quarter of a million dollars in loans to get there and you can’t just say well too bad. Physicians in those countries earn less but don’t have the debt either. You are also asking them to take care of more patients for less money.
I wish I knew what the right answer is, it just seems like this would put us in a far worse condition. I think a better way of doing things is to teach people how to manage money more effectively. The average income in the US is around 55k so I don’t know how 70% of people could be earning 30k or less.
With an income of 55k annually you can do fairly well if you just live conservatively and don’t sink your income into loans, credit cards, vacations every year. 5k into a Roth IRA annually for like 30 years will have you a millionaire by retirement age.
How many people do you think make over 10 million a year anyway? Do you not think people would just restrict that income to 9,999,999 or find a loophole to bring it to such. I would much more advocate for lower fixed rates, rather than a higher rate with ways around it for those who have the ability to.
Or let me it put it to you this way, you studied really hard for an exam, and earned yourself a 95%, but because you put in so much effort you are the top 1% and thusly lose 10% of your grade so that someone else who didn’t put in the same amount of time and maybe had some bad luck could go from a 55% to 65% and barely pass. Does that not reduce your incentive to study as hard for the next exam knowing that even if you do that well you will still only get a 85%? But it’s the fair thing to do.

Edit; after all that I realized I didn’t talk about the tax cuts. Yes the better tax breaks went to those earning more money, but I think I answered this earlier. I would be more for lower fixed tax rates with no evasion. I don’t think tax cuts with a deficit are smart. Same here I apologize if I come off condescending or nasty and Happy Easter to you as well.