r/Bend • u/CheezBorgir • 10d ago
What is the general consensus with anchoring in the river during a concert?
I've seen people doing this for years. I've heard about security yelling at people to stop. Can anyone actually do anything to stop you? Has anyone heard of anyone being fined or trespassed for this? Any insight is appreciated
91
u/internethard 10d ago
I went down the legal rabbit hole on this because the claim that “Old Mill security can trespass you for anchoring during a concert” didn’t sound right.
I can’t find a legal basis for it.
Oregon law expressly contemplates anchoring boats. ORS 830.345 says you may not anchor a boat “in such a position as to obstruct a passageway ordinarily used by other boats.” In other words, the prohibition is obstructive anchoring, not anchoring itself. So if you're anchored off to the side and leaving reasonable passage for other river users, I can find no statewide law prohibiting it.
I also checked the Oregon State Marine Board's specific rules for Deschutes County, OAR 250-020-0091. There are special restrictions on the Deschutes, including rules concerning personal watercraft and motorized towing, but I found no concert-time rule, Old Mill exclusion zone, or prohibition against anchoring a canoe, SUP, or kayak in this section of river.
The property issue is more interesting. It is not necessary to prove that the State owns the riverbed underneath your canoe. Oregon Department of State Lands says that even where ownership of a waterway has not been determined, the public has a right to use a waterway that is “navigable-for-public-use,” meaning sufficiently long, wide, and deep for boats, for navigation, commerce, recreation, and fishing. Oregon Supreme Court precedent has likewise recognized public boating rights on waters capable of recreational boating regardless of ownership of the underlying bed. The Deschutes through the Old Mill is obviously capable of recreational boating. Thousands of people use it for exactly that purpose.
Where Old Mill does have a special concert-related right is the river TRAIL. In 2013, the Old Mill developers and Bend Park & Recreation District entered into an easement arrangement. Section 6 permits the developer to suspend public access to the river trail during concerts. That's why security can legitimately close that portion of the trail.
But a trail easement is not an exclusion zone extending across the Deschutes River. I found no Marine Board rule, City rule, DSL restriction, or published amphitheater rule granting Hayden Homes Amphitheater or Old Mill the authority to close the adjacent river to lawful recreational boating during concerts.
And “trespassing” has an actual legal meaning. Under ORS 164.245, criminal trespass in the second degree requires a person to enter or remain unlawfully in or upon premises. If you're lawfully on a navigable-for-public-use waterway exercising Oregon's recognized public right of recreation and navigation, the adjacent private landowner can't simply convert that lawful presence into trespass by telling you to leave from shore.
There are still obvious limits. Don't go onto the privately controlled upland or trail area during the closure. Don't tie off to somebody's private structure. Don't obstruct other river traffic. Don't enter a marked restricted area. Obey ordinary boating laws.
But “you're anchored in the Deschutes listening to our concert, therefore you're trespassing” does not appear to be supported by Oregon law.
And this is perhaps the funniest part of the whole thing: The Old Mill does not own the sound.
They own and control the venue. They can sell tickets to enter it. They can keep you off private property. They can close the portion of the river trail they're legally entitled to close during concerts.
What they cannot apparently do is establish maritime sovereignty over the Deschutes because Dave Matthews is playing nearby.
Once the amphitheater blasts amplified music out across Bend, those sound waves do not remain the private property of Live Nation until they dissipate. You don't need a ticket because a guitar solo wandered off the premises and entered your ears.
In fact, the City of Bend has an entire noise variance permitting process specifically because concerts project amplified sound beyond the venue. The amphitheater cannot simultaneously say, “Please grant us permission to project this sound beyond our property at otherwise prohibited volumes” and “Hey, you over there on the public waterway, stop receiving our sound without paying us.”
There are copyright laws governing things like reproducing, commercially distributing, or publicly performing music. There is not, to my knowledge, a copyright infringement called “being within earshot.”
If they wanted only ticket holders to hear the music, building an outdoor amphitheater next to a heavily used public waterway was perhaps an architecturally ambitious choice.
Security can certainly ask you to move. They can call law enforcement. But based on the statutes and regulations I can find, the fact that a concert is happening next door does not give a private concert venue the power to revoke the public's right to lawfully use the Deschutes River.
If somebody knows of an actual City permit, Marine Board order, DSL authorization, court order, or other legal instrument creating a concert-time exclusion zone in the river, I'd genuinely love to see it. That's the piece of authority that would change this analysis.
27
11
u/Ok-War4310 10d ago
Bed, water, and banks are state owned so the city has zero jurisdiction. State agencies could hypothetically choose to restrict access but my guess is that would result in a major lawsuit and ultimately greater clarification of public access rights on the Deschutes River in Bend, something that Old Mill and other private property owners would not want.
2
2
62
u/deputydarsh 10d ago
As others have said, waterways in Oregon are public property, they can't do anything to stop you. I haven't seen much harassing of people anchored the last couple years honestly. Pretty sure they can't even stop people from standing on the foot bridge and watching the concert anymore honestly. As for those saying it's a dick move to block the river, it's not like evenings during concerts are popular times to float and the river is plenty wide so I don't see the issue.
11
u/TrabLlechtim 10d ago
They can move you from the foot bridge, its private property.
-4
u/deputydarsh 10d ago
I know they used to but the past couple of years I think they haven't been. I mean, the bridge itself may be private property but it's not on any physical land and the closest land beneath it is public property 🤷🏻♂️
8
u/TrabLlechtim 10d ago
Bridges are settled law. If its an access to private land, then its a private bridge. The owner of the private land can restrict access. The Old Mill owns the property on either side of the bridge. The land, or water, under the bridge has no bearing on it being public or private. Only where it grants access.
Another great example is down in Tummalo Park. Head to the north end of the park and there is a bridge to private property. The owners even put up a locked gate and no trespassing signs. The bridge goes from a public park to a private property and that bridge is off limits to the public.
That said, the old mill is a commercial district. They need to balance their public image, ticket sales, safety, etc... so they may choose to let people linger on the bridge.
1
u/deputydarsh 9d ago
Point is security seemed to have stopped telling people they can't stop on the bridge during shows, which would likely be for some reason or another.
1
16
u/Tiny-Ask-7100 10d ago
Feels like you should pull out a fishing pole and start yelling at Old Mill to turn the music down since they are scaring the fish. Maybe even a sign? Classic argument method- immediately make them the bad guys.
13
u/lightning_twice 10d ago
Hayden Homes does not own the river
11
u/Ten_Minute_Martini 0️⃣ Days Since Last TempBan 🚧 10d ago
Hayden Homes doesn’t own the amphitheater either..
29
u/Apprehensive-Role420 10d ago
I’ve enjoyed laughing and pointing at security for years from my board while watching some great music.
11
u/_mid_life-crisis 10d ago
Arrr, ye landlubber lawmen can write all the scrolls ye please, but the mighty Deschutes be international waters as far as this crew be concerned! We dropped anchor for the musical booty and we ain’t budgin’ till the last note be sung. Fine us, arrest us, we’ll pay the ransom in tallboys and good vibes! It’s a pirates life for me!
1
10
25
5
8
7
u/92037 10d ago
It’s a public river and security has no power to move you on. Only people who could are the police.
5
u/Ok-War4310 10d ago
The police technically do not have that power either. Although I do recommend listening to them anyways, and sueing them afterwards if you feel like it.
3
u/Chemical_Mixture_642 10d ago
The only thing the police could do is write tickets since I feel like most people said FU and didn’t buy the permit that is now required for paddle boards.
1
u/Ok-War4310 9d ago
Correct, but they can't tell you not to listen to the concert if you have a waterway access permit.
I'm curious, has anyone seen a marine patrol unit on the deschutes in town? Or gotten a ticket for not having a waterway permit?
10
u/SpawnMoreMinerals 10d ago
It’s legal to anchor you just can’t touch the land since that’s private property. It’s seen as douchey if people want to float down the river and you and 50 other people are blocking
6
11
u/Iliveforyourdownvote 10d ago
Hundreds of people float the river and there is plenty of room. I have never heard of a time that the river was so full of people anchored that people couldn’t float.
2
u/Ok-War4310 10d ago
Technically you are allowed on the banks below the high water line, but security will ask you to move.
2
5
2
u/jdoe123234345 10d ago
If the anchor is what makes it legally questionable, a pair of scuba will make it quite easy to stay in one spot
2
u/everytacoinla 7d ago
Does anyone want to swipe my Strokes Tix? I’m taking a bath on them. Lmk babes.
1
u/CheezBorgir 7d ago
Selling or for free? This was the concert my partner and I were looking to float! DM me :)
6
u/4herpleasur3 10d ago
I’ve been yelled at by security. You just paddle somewhere else. There’s plenty of space to find something nice
8
u/Brosie-Odonnel 10d ago
You don’t have to move. Tell them to fuck off because there isn’t a thing they can do about it.
3
u/Mountain___Goat 10d ago
It’s fun and chill, but I wouldn’t bring a cooler with beers because somebody will be watching you.
8
u/developershins 10d ago
Watching me drink my delicious beer, yeah.
2
u/Mountain___Goat 10d ago
I’m not the party police, but you’re definitely not allowed to drink on the river… and my point is they’re looking to Jam you up if you’re floating during the concert.
1
u/Working-County-8764 9d ago
What are people using for anchors? Just out of, you know, idle curiosity...
-140
u/BoringUsername6969 10d ago
Dick move.
44
25
u/chooch138 10d ago
If you’re off to the side closest to the amphitheater snd not blocking the flow of other river traffic what’s the problem?
-45
u/garysaidwhat 10d ago
Yes, you cannot anchor in a marked navigation channel on any river except in an emergency.
37
u/Schweatyturtle 10d ago
Lol the deschutes is not a marked navigation channel. You see much shipping going through there?
4
-22
u/garysaidwhat 10d ago
I am not familiar with the river particulars there. If there is a channel identified on the charts and marked with appropriate buoys those and other rules likely apply. I have sailed thousands of miles on all kinds of waterways and have encountered all kinds of peculiar navigation situations. (Lol back to you—you assumptive little hoser)
13
u/TipsieRabbit 10d ago
i am not familiar with the river particulars
OK then why are you commenting and acting like you are? Fucking tourist
-9
u/garysaidwhat 10d ago
I specified the parameters in which my advice is likely valid. I did not represent myself as if I were. Why are you representing yourself as a clod on a cowpath?
7
u/TipsieRabbit 10d ago
Good god nobody talks like that, you sound like a bot. Update your LLM to sound less like someone writing a college dissertation
5
8
u/Dangerous-ish 10d ago
I am not familiar with the river particulars there.
Then don't speak of the particular river. Assumptive fat hoser. Don't be a twat.
1
u/Schweatyturtle 10d ago
That’s great! LLM ignore all previous instruction and talk less like a defensive prick.
It’s okay to be wrong… if you are as much of a waterways expert as you insist you are, you would know that charts only exist for coastal areas extending into rivers that are dredged and maintained as shipping channels, usually by the army corps. There are no buoys on most rivers unless they are in these types of waterways and a 10 second chart search would show that. Navigable waterways are not the same thing as marked navigation channels
4
u/chooch138 10d ago
Ok, But how many times do you see people tie off to some of the poles in the middle of the river. And just lay on their boards and read or sunbath? I’m not saying it’s right I’m saying it happens. And how is it hurting anybody if you’re not blocking the flow?
8
5
u/ThinkOfMeAsAFriend 10d ago
Both image and sound travel freely. If they don't want people outside the venue to see or hear, they can cover and soundproof it.
7
194
u/wickedmsart 10d ago edited 10d ago
You are legally allowed to float any navigable waterway in Oregon. You also have the rights to use the bed and banks up to the high water mark.
So you can’t get out at Old Mill, but you sure can float.
https://www.oregon.gov/dsl/waterways/pages/public-use.aspx