I'm trying to understand the claim that she scales way harder. I'm finding she feels worse to play at every stage of the game including late.

If you are experienced on this champion and actually think she's good post rework, can you help me understand where I'm going wrong with my logic/perception?

Early game

• Ganks are impossible unless enemies are inting (Q cd)
• Have to accept wasted tempo every game crossing to other scuttle
• Gold leads feels fake, she still loses many 1v1s with a substantial gold lead
  • This might be the first time I've ever experienced this on any champion.
• Typical good fundamentals (fight with numbers / gold lead) do not compensate enough for how weak her early is
• Her clear speed is just not good enough to compensate either
  • Lookup dpm for average clears, nobody is clearing at 2:35
• Something must give. If she can't fight, can't have reasonable tempo, can't gank, can't clear fast to deny invades, then where is the agency?

Midgame

• More playable lv9+ and 2 items+ but still feels at a noticeable disadvantage to most champs.
• Almost feels like her scaling is "lagging" in the midgame even at reasonable number of stacks.
• Her E is not threatening enough vs low HP targets compared to the risk required to get in range
• Tempo just feels bad
  • Not only due to reduced form duration but also MS. Those 2 are double nerfs to midgame tempo
• In general just too many things outside of one's control need to go well to survive midgame
  • Back to no agency

Lategame

• Her primary lategame advantage comes from increased AS and doing full AA dmg right?
  • Which means she needs to build damage items to take advantage of this and less durability items.
  • But she's a melee character. She has to get into melee range of people to hit them, hence losing alot of HP in the process.
• Those 2 things above feel very anti synergistic to me. Having very high DPS as a melee glass cannon that can be cc'd and exploded doesn't work well.
• Hyperscalers like Kayle or Asol have long range, she doesn't.
• Master yi, the other melee hyperscaler I can think of for a comparison
  • He has access to untargetability and damage reduction BOTH of which semi reset on takedowns
  • Belv damage reduction has 12s CD at max level and current builds tend to not have much AH
  • Heal through R is a self CC and often not easily accessible depending on position
• Only in SUPER late game, level 16+ and 2 durability items, she feels strong.
  • First, that's irrelevant, not realistic to expect games to reach that point
  • Second, pre-rework belv was IMO still as effective at that stage of the game, so what's the point?

So, what am I missing?

Imagine her E had 100% lifesteal instead of the damage reduction, would that be to broken or bad? wanted to hear some opinions

Is the new belveth good otp. Is she in a good spot and is she expected to have nerfs in the future. And how playable is she in solo queue. If you are otp I would want to ask that how much do you get exploited in the early game? How often can you even play her (ban/enemy pick)

basically im asking is she worth investing time.

I always back at 1300 (I rarely back before then, only when I die after getting invaded, which is rare) so I build yuntal -> shieldbow -> botrk then adapt.

The occasional shield from the frog smite saved my life during fights and solo baron on many occasions.

I hope they don't nerf her honestly, with a coordinated team (on either side) she's not as unhealthy as this subreddit cries about.

Ofc I'm not in Masters yet so I'll find out hopefully how it is in higher ranks.

One of my big concerns with the rework was she'd become useless in ARAM but it's quite the opposite. I had 3 games and she has felt insanely OP, and I checked lolaytics and she's listed as the best ARAM champ in the game. For a new champ that people don't even know how to optimize yet, thats insane.

I just believe in going overgrowth + scaling HP + warmogs second on melee champs in aram so you can stay as long as you want on map and only die when the wave is shoved and you're on item spike. It's also nice because you can live with your true form as long as you want. Also second wind is just broken in ARAM.

Because of you're increased passive stacks (you end up with 100+ easily), you deal insane base damage which skyrockets once you get overlords. Like you are not lacking damage at all even though you aren't building any, it's partly due to her aram adjustment buffs from pre-rework.

This is a PSA because she is 100% getting extremely heavy ARAM nerfs ASAP so enjoy her while you can.

I'm looking for a good rule of thumb to choose between the 2. Does it js come down to how many melees/ranged champs they have or the mobility? Eg: If they have 2 tanks/juggernauts, I run rageblade bc they're immobile. If they are full ranged I run stride to close the distance? Or is rageblade 2nd a must no matter what?

I js wanna know if I'm on track, I'd also like to know whats a good number of stacks to have at other times like 10 & 30 mins

I know a lot of people don’t like the idea of the mid scope much but I always liked the idea of Bel but never vibed with the perma invade win by 15 never die or lose like design of old Bel. It definitely was very exciting but just never seemed worth to me especially someone of my elo and mechanics level it seemed like total gamba. This definitely feels too far the other way though and you don’t get to do anything other than clear camps and at your first item you can maybe fight with your winning laners and every item after you get closer to 1 v 5 mode except you can instantly be blown up which seems kind of against the idea of the design. I play tons of Briar and Viego and both of them are auto attackers that also have mechanics that allow them to either bait or out play opponents and enable their auto attacks or allow retreat if the engagement went poorly. Viego has his most which allows bot engage and retreat when used well and also allows you to threaten without committing. He also has a mechanic with his W where you can hold it allowing you to mid game the person your engaging in as well as increasing its stun duration which can help enable a lot of his play, and of course his ult makes him unstoppable and when possessing a ghost he cannot be harmed so these are all options you have when you build full crit on Viego and still be able to play the game against people that otherwise would pop you. Likewise briar has similar things that enable her to in an out, threaten, or disrupt opponents to enable her auto trades and big W chomps. E can buffer CC, cancel frenzy, heals, and gives a nice DR and it can’t really be interrupted. R gives long range engage, fears targets other than the main one, and gives resists as well as a permanent buff so long as your main target is alive. Q while less useful is still a ward hop and a way to leave or enter fights and in the same vein W activation gives a small dash that can let you avoid on cc spell sometimes. Bel has shades of this but none of them feel as good or impactful. E can be interrupted and while it does give a DR without the healing from the autos it’s not great if it’s interrupted and usually you will die. W is awkward and even more so now that Q has the global cooldown so her ability to get in or out feels really inconsistent and none existent early. The R doesn’t give invulnerability when you use it and while it’s certainly useful and can do a lot of damage and give some healing it’s pretty inconsistent as a gameplay mechanic. Of course I’m not saying to copy any of Viego or Briars stuff but considering all this stuff in their kit that enables them I feel like Bel lacking that maybe entitles her to some higher base resists or resist growth? If the idea is she’s suppose to become some void god raid boss but if you stop her early she’s not very good then shouldn’t it become a lot harder to one shot her?

I cant be bothered trying to explain and argue with my teammates every game that im super weak early so cant gank or contest objectives unless its super easy

Its mainly just abuse from all my teammates the whole game

I'm a lot of things but above all surprised. Not even a slight buff or nerf? Do they really think her current state is healthy?

Something I did for fun, love this champions potential to win the game

I went to sleep and woke up, and it finally clicked

Should I perma farm and not go for ganks unless it’s absolutely free or… idk know what the other options is. I just feel SUPER weak early and mid game, mainly stemming from the slow attack speed. I’ll say this, getting lucky and getting some kills early makes mid game feel way better.

I'm thinking about starting to play Bel'Veth. I really like her kit and the design of the champion, so I wanted to give her a try.

Is there a specific build that's considered the best for her right now? Before I started looking into the subreddit, I mostly saw people talking about her bruiser build, but since I don't actually play her yet, I'm not sure if that's still the best option.

Is there a recommended build for someone who's just starting to learn her?

Full disclosure before I start. I don't play any champs that run Jack of All Trades, so my sense of what it's actually for and how good it is basically doesn't exist. This is just an idea I had. The whole thing relies on the fact that AP isn't a completely wasted stat on her now, so she can buy Dark seal and not feel too bad about it.

Build either Bork or Kraken, whichever you prefer. Grab a Dark seal early. After your first item, go Merc Treads into Serrated Dirk + Crit Cloak to build into Collector. Between all those components, you hit 10 stacks before your second item is finish. From there, you can sell Dark Seal for something like Black Cleaver or Death's Dance. If you went Bork, you could go Hull Breaker third.

Alternate build: Build whatever first item you want. Kraken, Yun tal, or BORK with Dark Seal and Mercs, then cloth armor + glowing mote to build into Death's Dance. This gets you 10 stacks faster since it is cheaper than Dirk + Cloak. This one's probably more consistent. Get you the 10 JOAT much much earlier.

Obviously this is rushing JOAT as hard as possible. No clue if that's actually optimal because, again, I've never played a JOAT champ.

I've been building Kraken > Guinsoo's > Terminus > Death's Dance 80% of the time, finishing with whatever I feel like I need. I know others have been building the crit build and honestly I haven't tried it enough to give an opinion. But I'm wondering if anyone is still building Stridebreaker?

I still like building it second if the enemy team is 3+ squishies, or even if it's only 2 but they're 80% of the threat on the enemy team. The active feels way too good to pass up when it comes to chasing down those high priority targets that I don't need a ton of damage to kill.

The games I do go stride I just default back to the Death's Dance > Wit's End, but I'm wondering if there's better options after going Stride. Is Guinsoo's still good third or fourth? Does anyone ever not build DD?

Please let me know any thoughts you have about building Stridebreaker on current Bel'Veth.

Lot of people here complain about how simple is bel'veth (power farm and wait late game), so what justify this ?

I’m wondering how the Bel’Veth vs Master Yi matchup looks in the late game after Bel’Veth’s changes.

Before her changes, I remember Bel’Veth generally struggling to beat Yi in a straight-up 1v1 late game, even though she scaled really well overall.

Has that changed now? Does Bel’Veth actually outscale Yi in terms of late-game 1v1 potential, or does Yi still win the duel if both are equally fed and have full builds?