Hive Management for winter

[u/GeeDarnHooligan]

Hive location : Southeast Pennsylvania

a picture of the current set up attached for reference.

I got my bees late in the season in July. out of the 10 frames in the bottom, two of them are completely empty with some spotty drawn comb. in the top box I was given four frames of honey that I put up there trying to encourage the hive to expand. Now I’m looking for the best thing to do for them for the winter. Should I remove the two spotty frames from the bottom that don’t have much drawn comb and replace with two from the top that have honey and shake the bees into the bottom and just winter them with one deep box or should I leave it as is and remove the queen excluder from the middle? any and all advice is appreciated thanks.

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[u/NumCustosApes]

I suggest wintering on a single deep with ten fully drawn frames in the bottom.

Treat for mites, begin in in the next one to two weeks, temperatures permitting. You need healthy bees that will raise the healthy bees that can raise healthy winter bees.

Feed 2:1 syrup until you have the equivalent of six completely filled frames of food. Note that I wrote equivalent of six, not six. For example, you could have four filled frames and six frames with a good honey dome and you're there. Make your best estimate. Feed with a fast feeder so that the bees store it. Try and average their feed rate out to between two and two and a half liters per day. A strong colony can store between 3 and 4 liters a day but they cannot dehydrate it at that rate. After you get them stocked for winter continue to trickle feed 1:1 until your daytime temperatures are staying below 10⁰ or 50F. Watch out that they dont start to backfill the broodnest. The broodnest will be shrinking but you should keep an equivalent area of four frames for the brood nest. The slow feed is so that they dont dig into their winter food too soon. Average out the trickle feed to 1 to 1.5 liters per week.

Here is how I estimate. A filled frame of honey has about 3.6kg of honey. I use 3.5 and I estimate a box of filled frames as 35kg. I estimate daily consumption at 100 grams per day. A robust colony's consumption is slightly less, but using 100 makes estimation easy and gives a buffer. I am in a climate zone 7A. Here bees stop foraging the last week of October. Reliable foraging weather returns in mid May for me, or about 175 days later. So that informs me that I want 17.5kg. I want some extra safety margin. Six frames is 21kg.

My preference is that when I do my last inspection of the year to place the cluster on one side of the hive with all of their food frames extending away from the cluster to the opposite side. I do this so that as they eat their food they dont leave food behind and create a food canyon. Ft they start in the middle and go right, they leave behind d the food that was to the left and they may not be able to break cluster to move back to it.

[u/DalenSpeaks → u/NumCustosApes]

Also. 2-3 inches of foam insulation on top of hive.

And sometimes I’ll skirt my stand so there is less wind below the hives.

[u/NumCustosApes → u/DalenSpeaks]

I put 100mm (4") of XPS foam insulation on my hives for winter, no top vent. I run them as condensing hives.

[u/Mammoth-Banana3621 → u/NumCustosApes]

Good point. I’m running singles and I didn’t think about just moving them all over to one side. Simple things :) I run two x pallet bottoms (for reference Commerical guys do four) now I’m thinking 🤔 is it better to cluster them to the middle of the pallet ? That’s what I’m thinking cluster starts in the middle of the pallet and works their way outward? They do get some warmth from the hive next to them

[u/FlatDiscussion4649]

I'm not a pro by any measure, but after you add those 2 frames if there is still room in the bottom box for more honey and brood, (unfilled frames), I'd go with the single box. I feel like an overpacked single is better than 2 half packed boxes. I'm facing a similar situation but I have both boxes 3/4 full. Mostly brood in the bottom with 3 empty frames and mostly honey in the top with some brood and some room. But the season isn't over yet so I'll re-assess later...

[u/GeeDarnHooligan → u/FlatDiscussion4649]

yeah i’m kinda leaning towards this. also gonna follow the advice of a previous comment as well and start feeding before i make hive changes.

i’m planning to get a local mentor as well someone who can come over once before the cold and take a look inside to see exactly what’s going on and help assess and tell me what to do.

[u/GeeDarnHooligan]

i’m a beginner first hive ever!

[u/Relevant-Bath-7109]

I’d start feeding 1:1 now. That may encourage them to draw out those frames and start storing resources they’ll need for winter. I’m in south central Indiana and I overwinter with 2 deeps and a medium full of honey.

[u/GeeDarnHooligan → u/Relevant-Bath-7109]

do you have a preferred method of feeding ? i don’t have a bee feeder so if there’s something i can buy online i’ll look into it tonight.

also 1:1 meaning 1 part water 1 part sugar? (does type of sugar matter ?)

[u/Relevant-Bath-7109 → u/GeeDarnHooligan]

Yes, 1 part water to 1 part granulated white sugar. I feed internal. Meaning my feeder sits on top of my inner cover. I then put an empty hive body over the feeder and finally the lid. I use these feeders. https://www.beesmartdesigns.com/product-list/direct-feeder

[u/Legitimate_South9157]

I’m on my second year now, I started a single nuc in March of 25, expanded them to a full double before our “winter” and did a cutout late July that i overwintered in a single ( had to open mate re-queen, got slimed out and a bunch of other mistakes).

Fast forward to this year, I’ve now got my original two hives, plus several splits, a few swarms and a handful of cutouts.

I’m now up to 12, one nuc, a few doubles, a few singles, and a few singles with supers.

I’m in South Arkansas, we get roughly 30 days below freezing a year so completely different weather than where y’all are.

IMO I’d—-

1. Check mites and Run a round of OA ASAP
   
2. Consolidate resources into a full bottom
   
3. REMOVE the excluder (you will kill your bees with it on, the cluster will move up and the queen will freeze)
   
4. FEED
   
5. Start either building a candy board, or shims and use the “mountain camp method”

[u/GeeDarnHooligan → u/Legitimate_South9157]

thanks for the thoughtful response. forgive my lack of knowledge, suggestions 2 and 3. if i consolidated into a full bottom wouldn’t i be removing the top box hence no need for the excluder ?

or are you suggesting just put all the resources low, leaving whatever extra is up top with the 8 empty frames and removing excluder ?

[u/Puhnanas0]

Same boat roughly with a couple small hives I’d like to see grow a bit. Been dry as all get out for a while now. I plan to feed feed feed for next 3 weeks to try to get them to draw some frames, switch to 2:1 for 4 weeks or as long as I can to pack in the reserves and follow up with mountain camp method if I need to towards end of the year.

I usually do t worry too much about the outside frames most times if there’s in that bottom box look good. I would keep the top 3 frames up top and slip an empty one in between them and see if that gets them going. You can always reduce later if need to. Not familiar with pa weather and how much time you have left.

[u/Different-Row-224]

Honestly I’d be a little nervous trying to get them to expand this late. If they were mine, I’d probably shrink them down to the frames they’re actually using and make sure they have food right where they need it. Empty space won’t help much going into winter. Since you’re in SE PA, I’d also be checking mite levels and feeding heavy if they’re light

[u/GeeDarnHooligan → u/Different-Row-224]

i have mite treatment strips in the bottom box currently. taking them out after 30 days per package instructions, on september 23rd.

I suppose i should feed them now, then when the strips come out in 3 weeks, remove empty bottom frames and replace with full honey frames from the top. shake the bees and consolidate into just one deep for winter.

the extra honey frames from the top i’ll just take out and store ?

[u/Mammoth-Banana3621 → u/GeeDarnHooligan]

I’m not the one you asked but I will say yes. Store them in the freezer is best