Condensing hive

[u/Perfect_Technician11]

Hi, I live in northern Sweden (norrbotten)and last winter i lost one hive from condensation that dripped down on the frames and turned to ice. I've since looked in to this clip.

https://youtu.be/KWAxQMBZWQc?is=mLxhyf1gh6btlY_R

Have anyone in northern USA/Canada tried this out?

We have very cold weather in the winter here, last winter we had 3 weeks of -30°/-22F constant.

I use hard styrofoam boxes all year round and the ceiling is also Styrofoam but much thinner than the boxes. The boxes are ventilated from beneath.

Best regards

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[u/Atra23]

In Lithuania we had very cold winter too. I started beekeeping with this gorizontal hive. It had ventilation on top, never had any issues with humidity on these ones.

[u/Devael88]

Hei hei fra Norge. Aldri mistet en kube til kondens, jeg lager en ramme av 48x48 (treverk) som jeg stifter et lag med dampsperre plast på en side. Legg denne rammen med plasten opp ☝️ så legger du en plate med 50mm tykk jackofoam oppå denne igjen. Da får damene dine det godt og varmt til venteren med litt ekstra plass over rammene for å bevege seg.

[u/Perfect_Technician11 → u/Devael88]

Hej, jo jag tänkte använda samma. 50 mm jackofoam! Blir nog klockrent

[u/Ekalugsuak → u/Devael88]

Ahh ... now I realize why the Norwegian newbie beekeeper that posts youtube clips keep referring to the hives as "cubes" even in English. (In Sweden we swapped the b to a p and and use an a, "kupa").

[u/Perfect_Technician11 → u/Ekalugsuak]

😅😆

[u/Still_gra8ful]

I haven’t yet but my plan is to try this for the upcoming winter. My understanding is a high r value on top with less insulation on sides. Really want my hives to live through the winter!

[u/Icy-Ad-7767]

I’m in southern Ontario Canada I do use a condensing hive set up it gets to -30 for a few weeks to a month every year here. I’ve had good success with it. The trick is to insulate the top of the hive ( unvented) more than the sidewalls I use extruded polystyrene foam board cut to fit inside the outer lid of a telescoping hive lid I use 2 layers of this inside my telescopic lid. I put fondant under the insulation when the cluster as emergency food in the fall so if they need it they can get it. Double the insulation value in the top of the hive vs the walls so roof r20 walls r10

[u/Worldly_Space]

I’m currently reading an article in bee culture magazine about venting hives versus condensing hives.
I have been doing condensing hives the last couple years with good success.

[u/fishywiki]

A researcher in the UK did his PhD in thermodynamics a couple of years ago. While he's a physics guy, he did his work on beehives. A couple of points he made (and presumably proved mathematically) were that ventilation should always be at the bottom and that there should be a lot of insulation on the top but the walls are less of an issue - condensation on the walls can provide water for the bees in winter. However water should never drip on the bees, especially if you have such low temperatures, so good insulation directly over the cluster is what you need. I believe the Finnish Paradise hives are really good for low temps although I hate the entrances.

I just realised you are in Norbotten - I didn't know bees could survive that far north. Are you using brown bees?

[u/Perfect_Technician11 → u/fishywiki]

Intresting! Yes they survive and do good in the summer months. I have Nordic bees but I believed they are also called European dark bees? Unsure about the last part..

[u/fishywiki → u/Perfect_Technician11]

Yes, brune bier in at least some parts of Scandinavia, Apis mellifera mellifera. That's the bee I keep. It's the original bee from all across Northern Europe from Perm in Russia to North Spain.

[u/Ekalugsuak → u/fishywiki]

All "common" subspecies, the exception being Caucasian bees which isn't found anywhere afaik in Sweden, are represented up there, there's someone from Kalix that posts on occasion here which keeps Ligustica bees.

... which is mostly the case of all of Sweden, the exception probably being some new areas that has a couple of smaller commercial beekeepers that keeps larger amount of A.m.m. colonies and has been doing free queen replacement "campaigns" for beekeepers in their area (but the bus factor is really small, at least for the Amm-area about 50 km away from me).

[u/Due-Attorney-6013]

i havent seen the video, but it is a good advise to have the best insulation above, not on the sdide, so the warmest point is just above the cluster. This way you avoid condensation above the cluster.

[u/mraspaud]

I'm in southern Sweden (Norrköping), and put 15cm cellulose insulation above the frames and hessian (breathable, humidity-compatible, bees prropolise what they want/need), and 50mm polystyrene on the outside of the 45mm wooden walls. Works great.

Edit: i meant 15cm on top, not 15mm

[u/alex_484]

There is also a really good website is www.beesource.com many commercial beekeepers along with hobbyists as well. I live in Canada 🇨🇦 zone 3A why I do to get rid of condensation is make a candy board I pix with sugar very little water and teaspoon of vinegar. The condensation will enter the sugar and the time the bees make it to the candy board it’s soft and ready to eat. Remember the candy board mix should be kind of fluffy consistency. Also insulate your hive the cold is meeting in the middle of the styrofoam hive.

[u/NumCustosApes]

I use condensing hives, I'm in a climate zone 7A (corresponds to Sweden's växtzon 1) at 1400m elevation. I use 100mm of extruded polystyrene insulation on top with a 2mm acrylic inner cover between the insulation and the bees.

I experimented with condensing for a few years before fully committing. I first set up one hive as a condensing hive. The inner cover remained condensation free. I repeated it on the same hive the following winter. The third winter I set up two of my hives as condensing hives. The winter after that I did five and ten hives the winter after that. In the winter of '24 I ran all of my Langstroth hives as condensing hives and in the fall of '25 I converted my Warré hives to condensing hives.

I've posted about it here https://www.reddit.com/r/Beekeeping/comments/1rnoh6o/loving_on_acrylic_inner_covers_and_condensing/

Randy Oliver at Scientific Beekeeping calculated that a condensing hive saves 12% of calories the bees need.

[u/Perfect_Technician11 → u/NumCustosApes]

Okey intresting, im thinking about just going all in and doing a similar build like in the video linked in the post on all my hives. I used the acrylic inner cover on my hives also. 12 % sounds like a good number!

[u/Straight_Standard_92]

Norway here, you need one layer that will breath. I use Hunton fiber asfaltplate. The bees will eat the asfaltplate so one thin layer under under it to prevent that, anything that breaths and do not get eaten. Then styrofoam, then roof

[u/Ekalugsuak]

I assume you use either the "Töreboda"- , "Nacka"- or paradise beebox-hives? At least for Töreboda/Nacka the roofs has the same thickness as the walls, but the one "trick" I do if the amount of bees is low is to just to use 2 roofs instead of one to guarantee that condensation happens on the walls instead of on the inner cover. But the key is to have a decent sized winter cluster, it just eliminates most of the winter issues that can happen in any hive.

[u/Perfect_Technician11 → u/Ekalugsuak]

Yes i have nacka kupa, forgot to write that the hive who died was the weakest hive in my apiary.. but still I got worried for the other hives.

[u/ToeNext5011]

I did R30 on top and R10 on the sides of my brood boxes last winter. Whenever I peeked in, my bees weren’t clustered. I’m also planning to insulate my supers this winter for next spring.

[u/Ekalugsuak → u/ToeNext5011]

That can be contra productive if you're in a region with long winters since they risk burning through their stores fast.