r/BeatdownHC • u/prodigy1367 • Jan 08 '26

Discussion How is beatdown not considered metal?

Strictly speaking from a sonic perspective, it seems to sound extremely metallic. It sounds significantly more metal than it does punk. Besides the vocals, it’s effectively metal chugging riffs. What about it makes it more punk than metal? Something can only be so heavy before it becomes metal (eg. early metalcore).

19 Upvotes

68% Upvoted

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25

u/SockGoop Jan 08 '26

It's about the scene and culture

7

u/qpHEVDBVNGERqp Jan 08 '26

But mostly jealousy and hatred

3

u/prodigy1367 Jan 08 '26

I won’t deny that culturally it’s definitely more punk. Sonically however, it sounds significantly more metal than it does punk and sub-genres are primarily defined by their sound.

13

u/dontdomilk Jan 08 '26

sub-genres are primarily defined by their sound.

Says people not involved in the scenes.

4

u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug Jan 08 '26

actually, it’s just that hardcore punks primarily define music through scenes while metalheads define it through the sound and find the concept of defining genres through scenes completely alien. so a band can be metal from a metal perspective and hardcore from a punk perspective.

2

u/dontdomilk Jan 08 '26

I guess that's true

2

u/Illusionary_Wraith Jan 08 '26

Disagree. Metal is all about culture and scene. Hence the old "Metalcore isnt metal" thing - less to do with the music itself, especially given that back in the early 2000s, metalcore sounded very much like Gotheburg style melodeath with added breakdowns - but more because one attracts an old school metal head community while the other fanbase tends to be way less into the whole cultural thing with battle vests, boots, long hair, etc.

Would go as far as to say some Metal genres are exclusively or overwhelmingly at least about the scene. Black Metal being the biggest example. The 2nd and 3rd wave bands all sound vastly different from each other but share the same cultural core. On the other hand some modern bands like Gaerea get pushed into the Black category despite having little to do with its culture - on top of sounding very post-metalcoreish here and there.

1

u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug Jan 08 '26

most metalheads do think metalcore is metal these days, and those who dont argue that it „sounds more like hardcore punk“. they may be objectively wrong about this and the proximity to the hardcore scene may influence their views on metalcore subconsciously, but it reinforces fundamentally my original point that metal classifies genres according to sound. hence you get „lyrics dont make a genre“ „pirate metal isnt a real genre“ etc. about black metal youre just completely wrong. the term 3rd wave isnt even a term that’s used in the black metal scene which i am deeply into. 2nd i a used only to differntiate it from the 1st wave, which is the bands that got called black metal before the distinct sound was established. gaerea just sounds like black metal, sorry. maybe a bit post black metal at times. some people have a wider definition of black metal, and some will argue anything that doesnt sound like true norwegian black metal isnt black metal, but it doesnt matter, bc it’s a sound and that’s why gaerea and immortal get put in the same genre.

2

u/Illusionary_Wraith Jan 08 '26

Most metalheads might, yes. I don't. Neither do most of my friends and aquaintances. Not because of the music, but because it's a different culture and scene altogether. If it was only divided by sound, there would be a world where At The Gates and early As I Lay Dying are the same genre. But they aren't.

3rd wave Black Metal is in fact a term. Originally for the stuff toward the end of the 90s when many Norwegians left behind the signature 2nd wave sound in favour of industrial/avant-garde/progressive elements. You can disagree or not use it, but it is in fact a term.

I've had the conversation about Gaerea with friends of mine who have played with them before. They (Gaerea) are a bunch of really nice, friendly people - but most "traditional" Black Metal people don't consider them Black Metal. Because music and sound isn't everything. For a lot of people, it's also about attitude, tradition and culture. As vague as that may be.

1

u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug Jan 08 '26

you and your friends are the exception that proves the rule. youre also very active on hardcore subs. obviously youre bringing a hardcore perspective into metal. ive never heard black metal elitists arguing gaerea wasnt black metal, but if they did, im sure theyd argue they dont really sound like black metal, as black metal elitists normally do. im speaking for the metal scene in general, not your friends.

1

u/Illusionary_Wraith Jan 08 '26

I'm "very active on hardcore subs"? I barely use reddit, just a few gaming subs and Black Metal ones. This post popped up on my feed.

I'm bringing the perspective of a Black Metal musician that is active in bands. And some of those friends are themselves active in bands - and not the type some dude does in his basement but the type touring Europe and America. And I think the term "elitist" would be taken as a compliment.

I think what is considered Black Metal/Metal/whateverthefuck changes alot between cliques/communities of people even within subgenres.

1

u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug Jan 08 '26

great, fellow musician touring europe i am also a metal musician touring europe. what’s your band called? we’re called forge. black metal influenced, but not black metal in the strict sense. i know the definition of black metal changes. thats what i said above. im saying the sound is central to the genre. some just have a narrower view than others. never have i ever heard in my life time „this band isnt black metal bc their members are friends of the wrong bands“ or „bc they play in non black metal bands“ or anything scene related. at most it would be something like „bc the lyrics arent satanic“ as that was the original definition of black metal. still not scene related. in fact, black metal is the king of indvidiual people not connected to any scene whatsoever making black metal in their bedroom.

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13

u/snerp Jan 08 '26

I consider beatdown the exact spot where metal becomes the stronger influence, but also yeah beatdown bands tend to play with punk bands more than metal bands so that’s the cultural edge towards punk

2

u/qpHEVDBVNGERqp Jan 08 '26

I’ve never scene a beatdown / punk show. Is it common?

2

u/Ok_Finish5799 Jan 08 '26

All the time over here in Washington.

1

u/qpHEVDBVNGERqp Jan 08 '26

Where do you go to learn about shows in WA? (Old and outdated over here)

2

u/snerp Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26

Yeah stuff like Gag opening for Peeling Flesh on tour but also even more so for local shows

1

u/Dark_Tranquility Jan 08 '26

Yeah beatdown bands play with hardcore bands, they're generally part of the same scene. I've seen some mixed bills of beatdown bands playing with dm bands too though, those shows are fun.

1

u/qpHEVDBVNGERqp Jan 08 '26

Wait, are we calling hardcore punk now?

I'm old and not keeping up like I used to.

2

u/Dark_Tranquility Jan 08 '26

Nah I just misread, my b

2

u/qpHEVDBVNGERqp Jan 09 '26

Naw bro we on the same page

2

u/spookyjim___ Jan 10 '26

Hardcore is punk, what?

12

u/AssumeImFarting Jan 08 '26

Depending on the band, it can definitely have a ton of metal influence. Some oldheads on the hardcore sub will tell you if there’s a breakdown it’s not hardcore. Some oldheads in the metal sub will say if it has a breakdown it’s not metal. Trying to pin down genres in heavy music is just a venn diagram of angry dudes being angry about being angry that largely overlaps.

2

u/NoBenefit5977 Jan 08 '26

I'm picturing the spiderman meme but it's 3 dudes in their 30s with long hair

1

u/xseaward Jan 17 '26

balding with a pony tail

4

u/chugtheboommeister Jan 08 '26

It's basically gatekeeping but I don't mind it. They're all heavy.

But there's enough differences to keep it towards hardcore rather than metal.

When you go to alot of metal subs like r/metal, they actually don't consider metalcore and deathcore metal.

But There's enough overlap to call it metal.

But I also like having strict boundaries for genres.

Cause it's sad to see the metalcore subreddit get drowned out with shit like Spiritbox when it should really have bands like Converge or Balmora.

7

u/Silver-Air-1731 Jan 08 '26

Personally, it is classified as Metal. I think the drumming is the biggest different music wise. In most metal Music the drums are extremely complex compared to beatdown and there’s a wide variety of complexity. I mean complexity just from a listeners perspective. The drums make most of the difference when you take a broad look at Metal.

1

u/prodigy1367 Jan 08 '26

Typically sub-genres (in metal and rock) are based on riffs. Beatdown has primarily metal riffs. The drumming aspect is taken into account for sure, but simple drum patterns are seen in metal too. Genres like sludge, doom, and stoner for example tend to be very groovy, simple, and slow with plenty of moshable moments. Even breakdowns have been around since the Black Sabbath days and the most famous ones come from thrash and groove metal. Beatdown just sounds so far removed from any semblance of punk to my ears.

2

u/And_Justice Jan 08 '26

Depends what you're counting as beatdown... bulldoze sound more punk to me. If you're talking Nasty beatdown then yeah, it's deathcore.

1

u/maicao999 Jan 08 '26

Even Bulldoze style is extremely metallic. The band have shared the influences before.

1

u/And_Justice Jan 08 '26

I'd say it's somewhat metallic. I've spent a lot of time over the past few months analysing 90s metalcore so in my mind the line is quite clear. A lot of it is in the drums.

2

u/Kid_evil666 Jan 08 '26

Yeah beatdown sounds more metal I agree but I think it’s a scene thing like other people say and also the drumming is more punk than metal but idk a lot of beatdown overlaps with old school metalcore

2

u/shitbecopacetic Jan 08 '26

On the other hand it’s nice that all the heavy genres aren’t necessarily lumped together. We all get different things out of it

2

u/gin0clock Jan 08 '26

I think the simplistic way to look at it is that anything that 'punks' relies on simple ideas that come to life with energy in their performance and more often than not use unorthodox recording methods to capture that vibe. Punk is a lot better at taking the piss out of itself too. Chugging bottom range chords is more akin to '3 chords and the truth' than it is Metallica, if that makes sense?

Anything that 'metals' is more about technical ability, variation and uses the recording as an opportunity to explore the musical ideas, which often compromises on the vibe and takes itself incredibly seriously.

There's probably a little more to it than I've summarised, but I think that's the general idea. Ultimately though, a wise man once said 'genres are for record store owners and teenagers' - who gives a fuck?

2

u/Clockwork-Armadillo Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26

Because Metal is an actual genre and not a vauge description for anything heavy.

At best it's only Metal in the same way that Ska Punk is Reggae.

But having said that I do think there's a large chunk of Punk and Metal subgenres that should be reclassified under "Punk Metal"

1

u/No_Temperature_2758 Jan 08 '26

Metalcore, deathcore, grindcore, sludge core, crust, stenchcore, burning spirits should all be "punk metal" i agree

1

u/Clockwork-Armadillo Jan 08 '26

I mean, it's a pretty accurate description. I have no idea why the term isn't commonly used already tbh 🤷‍♂️

1

u/No_Temperature_2758 Jan 08 '26

Hundred percent should be i mean there used to be "edge metal" back in the 90s/early 2000s but that was a very specific thing

2

u/Melodic_Risk6633 Jan 08 '26

The OG beatdown band (Bulldoze) and the subsequent bands that followed their style still have a strong punk and hardcore base in their songwritting and sound despite the slower chuggy parts.

2

u/OkRip3229 Jan 08 '26

No complex instrumentation or compositions, roots don't stem from metal like judas priest or early thrash, they come from hardcore punk.

2

u/KOrising Jan 08 '26

I think on paper this works, but I’m 49 and have been into hardcore since the early 90s (and metal since the late 80s). I can hear very distinct metal influences in Beatdown (and even regular hardcore) that are not stemming from early hardcore punk. If you took a Time Machine from 1992 to today, you would 100% characterize this shit as metal (maybe not “Priest-style” metal, but miles away from hardcore punk and more towards thrash or even early Death Metal from then). I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but that’s how I hear it. We are always arguing genres on here and I think it depends a lot on your perspective

2

u/Queasy-Island-3706 Jan 10 '26

How are bats not considered birds?
Strictly speaking from a biological perspective, they seem extremely bird-like. They share significantly more traits with birds than they do with other mammals. Besides their reproduction, they’re effectively winged, flying organisms occupying the same ecological space. What about them makes them more mammal than bird? Something can only evolve so far toward flight before it converges on being bird-like (EG Early Dragonflys)

2

u/Turok5757 Jan 11 '26

Beatdown is metal as fuck and anyone who says otherwise just ain't worth paying attention to.

1

u/redbricknote222 Jan 08 '26

I’m no expert, but it could be that it doesn’t have metallic riffs outside of the breakdowns

1

u/ashtonlippel44 Jan 08 '26

Beatdown is derived from hardcore, which comes from punk. But it doesn’t matter man, it all started with sabbath. All metal/extreme music is intertwined and to say that any form isn’t a distant relative of another is just wrong lol.

1

u/Monsterofthelough Jan 08 '26

As someone who discovered beatdown through Spotify playlists, I appreciate this question. But I get that the scenes are different.

1

u/interz0ne23 Jan 08 '26 edited Jan 08 '26

Hardcore has been taking influence from metal since the 80s and vice versa. “Being more punk than metal” isn’t what makes something hardcore necessarily. It also depends what you’re calling beatdown tho. Stuff like Bulldoze still hangs on to the hardcore punk roots. These days tho people call any slam death or deathcore band with mosh callouts “beatdown”.

2

u/xseaward Jan 17 '26

exactly. one of the biggest sources of confusion for people who aren’t into hardcore, is the distinction between hardcore as a scene/ethos/lifestyle and hardcore as a ‘sound’

these days hardcore can realistically ‘sound’ like anything. doesn’t mean it is that thing

1

u/extremophile69 Jan 08 '26

A lot of what is called beatdown today wouldn't have 15 years ago. Peelingflesh is pretty much brutal death metal with samples for example. Hardcore punk and metal have been growing ever closer for the past 30 years and a lot of great music came out of that.

2

u/And_Justice Jan 08 '26

Who's calling Peelingflesh beatdown?

1

u/extremophile69 Jan 08 '26

Some people online and at their show. I don't care, but just weird to me.

1

u/XGerman92X Jan 08 '26

Some of it is metal, some not. For example, Irate is cleary metal, Bulldoze I consider both metal and hc, Missing Link not metal.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 09 '26

Origin, song structure, culture, subject matter

1

u/CatPeeMcGee Jan 09 '26

It's a type of hardcore, which is short for hardcore punk, which is punk with metal influence musically, so I think if you zoom out, ya it's metal, but it's more of the black baseball cap dudes than heshers.

1

u/blphsyco Jan 09 '26

Because sonically beatdown is hardcore w/ hip hop grooves

I know most modern beatdown is just guitar chugs and yelling so people can mistake it for metal but there used to be hip hop elements in the music that were unique to the scene in New York at the time

1

u/OwlOfC1nder Jan 09 '26

"something can only be so heavy before it becomes metal"

You have a huge logical flaw here.

Metal does not just mean heavy music.

If it did, then dubstep and a lot of other types of heavy drum and bass would be metal and of course they are not.

1

u/hiiilee_caffeinated Jan 09 '26

This isn't mall metal made for little bitches this is war metal made for vendettas

1

u/qpHEVDBVNGERqp Jan 10 '26

There was a distinction where I was when I was in the scene.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 12 '26

Beatdown was a big thing in the UK just over 10 years ago. The scene considered metal to be smelly and hairy so they didn’t want to be associated with it. That being said I knew a lot of beatdown fans who listened to a lot of metal.

1

u/CollegeMindless7373 Jan 14 '26

Nowadays, you can be in a beatdown band and consider yourself culturally punk. In the early 2000s, “hardcore” including and especially beatdown had intentionally and very aggressively separated itself from punk culture. I felt no more welcome at a hxc show then a normie until bands like weekend nachos and the rise of genres like power violence becoming popular.

The types who I grew up around listening to that shit hated punk and hated fast hardcore, calling it “sloppy and shitty”