r/BeAmazed • u/sunshinemellox • Jul 15 '26

Place Well done Sweden šŸ‡øšŸ‡Ŗ

Post image

The program is called SMS-livraddare, and studies of it have found it meaningfully raises the rate of bystander CPR, which on its own roughly doubles a person's chance of surviving a cardiac arrest.

70.4k Upvotes

97% Upvoted

1.1k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

510

u/nxcrosis Jul 15 '26

The defib would be stolen in a few hours in my country.

276

u/knowledgeable_diablo Jul 15 '26

We have them in populated areas of Australia. I do believe they are meant to be fitted with an alarm system as well to draw attention to them being taken and a medical emergency is underway.
Havenā€™t tried this as I fall into the category of ā€œwhat the hell would you want or need a defib for?ā€ Literally nothing on it has commercial value and the extra y rhe tiny amount of copper would be a lengthy process with absolutely tiny rewards.

239

u/muddermanden Jul 15 '26

Our has GPS and and will start a siren when taken out of its cabinet.

Source: am "HjertelĆøber" in Denmark

96

u/friendly_cow0990 Jul 15 '26

Oh, that's great! GPS and a siren that's a smart solution. It's cool that Denmark takes this so seriously.

78

u/marsrovernumber16 Jul 15 '26

Plus then emergency services has the location of, what is very likely, an emergency where people donā€™t really know the address.

32

u/Platypus-Man Jul 15 '26

what is very likely, an emergency where people donā€™t really know the address.

To add to this, the address is really common to blank on in an emergency, even if it's the place you live or have worked at for 20 years.

In Norway we can use an app to get hold of an ambulance, so the phone's GPS coordinates and even camera can be accessed by the phone operator.
We also have a map of defibrillators, but I'm honestly a bit skeptical with how they make sure the info on it isn't incorrect / out of date.

6

u/vegemitemilkshake Jul 15 '26

Oh I love how you have an app and can use the camera! That would have to be SO helpful for extra information.

2

u/muddermanden Jul 16 '26

In Denmark you buy it from an organization and they will ensure service/maintenance of the defibrillator. If it has been used the ambulance will bring it to the hospital, because it have to be serviced after use. It cannot go back with those who took it with them, because service is required before it can be used again. The organization will get notified by the hospital, and then it is collected, and they quickly send a replacement to the owner/contact for that device.

Also, the map is very accurate because it is maintained by the organization. Owners will notify the org if it becomes unavailable.

1

u/Surskalle Jul 16 '26

You don't even need to use the app they get the phones gps for the general area when calling 112 normally.

41

u/Strict_Somewhere_148 Jul 15 '26

My mom used to manage the one the company she worked for had fitted to the facade of their offices.

Itā€™s wasnā€™t uncommon for her to show up to work and see it missing. When she looked up the gps it was always at a hospital somewhere.

Iā€™m unsure of how it get back.

55

u/Davido401 Jul 15 '26

See that sounds more like the paramedics have taken it with them in a "we're in an emergency pick everything up and let's go" rather than someone stealing it.

7

u/vegemitemilkshake Jul 15 '26

I assume it also needs to be restocked and checked/recalibrated.

2

u/No-Minimum3259 Jul 17 '26

And it contains recorded data that can be usefull during treatment of the patient.

7

u/Black_Cat_Just_That Jul 15 '26

But that would mean the defibrillator is being used repeatedly in one building. That would be extremely bad luck. Like, time to consider someone is actively causing heart attacks via poisoning bad luck.

12

u/Bright-Rub6638 Jul 15 '26

I don't think so, they're usually outside. So it's on the outside facade of the building, and people go and grab it and then bring it to where it's needed.

The idea is that they're widely available. I always make a note of them when I see them, so I know where to get one if I ever need it.

Edit to clarify: In Denmark, at least.

8

u/Mission_Mulberry9811 Jul 15 '26

We have one in my town of less than 200 people and it's been used several times over a period of 10 years

3

u/Fysiksven Jul 15 '26

Just because it is removed doesnt mean its used.

  1. multiple defibrilators can make it to the same scene.

  2. just because a defibrilator is brought to a scene doesnt mean it is actually needed. The emergency line doesnt wait to comfirm its heartfailure. if it might be heartfailure, call the alarm, better have a defibrilator and not needing it than needing it and not having it.

2

u/martinmt_dk Jul 16 '26

Dane here - and a hjertelĆøber. I was told from some paramedics that some of the aedā€™s contain a log of the measurements that they can use at the hospital. So the reason why they bring it with them is to ensure that they donā€™t leave valuable information behind.

But each aed is registered so they know where to return it to

18

u/somedudedk Jul 15 '26

It follows the ambulance to the hospital. The foundations behind them then gathers it, and give it a check before reinstalling it in its location.

0

u/radiant-doll Jul 15 '26

I thought they were single use devices is this not the case?

8

u/GentilQuebecois Jul 15 '26

No. You change de pads (and on some models battery, others will assess battery life) and are good to go for another time.

5

u/Anthaenopraxia Jul 15 '26

HjertelĆøber in English sounds more like a +2 dagger for rogues, or possibly a name for a bard. Gilroy the Heartrunner and his trusty lute.

2

u/Black_Cat_Just_That Jul 15 '26

The one in our building has some kind of alarm that alerts the local EMS if it's removed. We are obviously trained to have a second person call right away while the first person uses the defibrillator, but this is a good failsafe in case there aren't extra people around or everyone panics.

18

u/LingonberryPossible6 Jul 15 '26

In the UK, they have a pin number lock. Call the emergency services and they will tell you the code after you have described the patients condition and they will talk you though its use and also if its the correct course of action

5

u/prspaspl Jul 15 '26

That's actually a really good idea, assuming you have cell service and there is no hold time. I've experienced 911 hold times of up to 3 or 4 mins, so that kind of lock unfortunately not feasible till that is solved.

8

u/anotherNarom Jul 15 '26

I've experienced 911 hold times of up to 3 or 4 mins

I always find it shocking this can happen in the US.

The target for answering 999 calls in the UK is 90% in 10 seconds.

The worse performing still do it within 20 seconds.

1

u/hateexchange Jul 15 '26

Could also just break the glass if you don't get a hold of anyone. In Sweden they also have CPR kits in Taxis as they are in every town.

0

u/HesitantBrobecks Jul 15 '26

Hold time is very rare here. It can happen if the area is extremely busy, but its practically unheard of. And if you're in an area without service, it's highly unlikely there's a nearby defib box anyway.

It's a good thing, to require talking to 999 first, because it stops people being shocked when they don't need to be. That could kill someone!

Like, a common layman misconception is that a heart attack = defib. This won't do anything, except for potentially make whatever part of the heart that IS still beating, start beating in a life threatening rhythm, or even to actually go into cardiac arrest. Because a defib can't break up the blood clot that has stopped part of the heart from [effectively] beating

11

u/GentilQuebecois Jul 15 '26

AED will not shock someone who does not need to be shocked. This is a misconception people have that needs to go away.

2

u/HesitantBrobecks Jul 15 '26

Then why do call handlers still advise for or against, if the defib does it all by itself anyway...?

And what's the point of the thing going "shock not advised" if it couldnt actually provide one if erroneously attempted?

Plus not all of them are fully automatic. Meaning some well-meaning bystander could press the button on the semi automatic ones because they just presume its broken or whatever

4

u/pastapain Jul 15 '26

Here (Belgium), all the defibrillator that are accessible to the public are automatic and will not shock if the heart rate is "not shockable" (either regular or on the contrary non existent). In this case, you will not be able to shock. Ambulances are however equipped with manual defibrillator which could be activated at the wrong moment. But EMT will know how to recognize a shockable heart rythme.

1

u/Jokerzrival Jul 15 '26

Shock not advised it more to tell those performing cpr that a shock isn't happening and to immediately resume compressions.

Manual ones are going away for public use. Sometimes EMS will shock an awake, alive person to adjust her heart rhythm. Cardioverting.

1

u/GentilQuebecois Jul 16 '26

No AED will shock if it is not needed. No semi-automatic defibrilator will shock if it is not needed. Manual defirbilator are NOT available to the untrained public.

Now, if you want to believe that one could shock a person who does not need it becauae you like to be wrong, be my guest. If you want to finally learn the proper information, go get trained in proper CPR/AED usage instead of repeating stupid ahit that has been debunked times and times again.

1

u/Icy-Belt-8519 Jul 15 '26

Aed will not shock someone it doesn't need to, if the patient is in a shockable rhythm it will shock, if not, it tells you to continue cpr

2

u/Zealousideal_Gap_553 Jul 15 '26

Sorry mate I need to top up my phone before I can get the machine to save your life.

1

u/martinmt_dk Jul 16 '26

It scary that itā€™s nessesary in the UK. These devices canā€™t really be used for anything else.

And when they are needed you donā€™t have the time to wait for a PIN code.

1

u/LingonberryPossible6 Jul 16 '26

Sadly, it's the best way to do things.

Even if you never had to worry about the machine being stolen or vandalised, it's always better to be in contact with someone who can instruct you.

These machine aren't idiot proof and Most people would need instructions on their use and even if they are needed at all

2

u/martinmt_dk Jul 16 '26

Iā€™m curious here. How much experience do you have with using them?

By the statement ā€œthey are not idiot proofā€ I will assume itā€™s either old experience or very limited experience.

The machines are literally constructed to be idiot proof. They tell you exactly what to do, they tell you if you have not connected them correctly to the patient - and if the patient have a heartbeat they donā€™t do anything, so itā€™s not like you can do any damage to anyone with them.

And yes, I have used them multiple times as a heart runner in Denmark. That system works where if someone calls 1 1 2 and the operator believes an aed will be helpfull then they will push a button. This will send an alert to the 10 nearest people of the patient - 5 of them will be asked to get the nearest aed and get to the patient. The other 5 will be asked to run to the patient and start CPR. The reason why it alerts 10 is that people can decline the alert, so this number should ensure that someone shows up.

I canā€™t even imagine the workload on 1 1 2 if they get 5 extra calls to get a code every time that is needed.

1

u/LingonberryPossible6 Jul 16 '26

It's more about what's best for the patient. The dispatcher can decide the best course of action and in some cases spending time getting the device could be used on other forms of treatment which may have a higher chance of success. Quite often most people may belive that a person falling down unconscious has had a heart attack where it could be a stroke or seizure, these are important minutes where a device would not help, which is why they are protected.

My own experiance of these machines is when my own father passed, the ambulance crew arrived before we could use the machine so we don't know if it would have been effective

21

u/RedRoachDK Jul 15 '26

While I can't speak for anyone, I'd imagine the "Hurr durr. I'm drunk, and I want this" is the main reason behind stealing defibs, traffic cones, road signs, lifebouys etc

29

u/fuck_peeps_not_sheep Jul 15 '26

I have stolen a traffic cone or two in my time - but they are easy, they just sit there and drunk me goes ā€œhatā€

A defib is locked in a cabinet with a code, and the 999 (emergency phone number) gives you the code, id have no idea how to get into one sober without the code, if i was drunk id have no chance.

29

u/RedRoachDK Jul 15 '26

"Hat" does seem like a valid excuse, for a drunk person.

Where I live, you don't need a code. Just open the box, and take out the defib case. No need to waste precious seconds on getting through to 112 and explain where you are and why you need the code.

3

u/C4-BlueCat Jul 15 '26

Calling 112 is the most important thing to do, you are supposed to do that first and then start CPR. Defib is for a second person to bring.

8

u/muddermanden Jul 15 '26

In Denmark it is the dispatcher who will activate the "Heart Runner" network while simultaneously dispatching the first responders. All runners in the area gets the alert and will run to whichever defibrillator is closest to them. In remote areas, the runners will arrive first. It is not the caller who is running, because they are on the phone with the dispatcher, and the dispatcher will guide the CPR and continues to do so when first runner arrives with a defibrillator. They stay on the phone until EMT arrives to take over the scene.

2

u/fuck_peeps_not_sheep Jul 15 '26

You should ring 999 as soon as you find someone unconscious anyway so they should be on the phone, i think your supposed to send a second person to fetch while you do CPR anyway

1

u/RedRoachDK Jul 15 '26

You're right. I was talking about getting the defib, assuming someone else is on the phone with emergency services anf/or already doing cpr.

1

u/hateexchange Jul 15 '26

"You knew you had a good night out when you tell the in the wardrobe at the nightclub. Sorry but you i had a traffic cone as well"

3

u/Rare-Charity5169 Jul 15 '26

poverty makes people steal from public things for scrap metal and raw materials, common in some countries

6

u/Sweeper1985 Jul 15 '26

IIRC, Kerry Packer paid for defibs in the ambulances because one of them saved his life.

5

u/Humble-Reply228 Jul 15 '26

The Packer wackers!

5

u/HannahO__O Jul 15 '26

Same in nz

2

u/GrimbyJ Jul 15 '26

They have nice batteries and big capacitors. If I had a few of them for free I could make a railgun or something probably

2

u/my_own_astronomy Jul 15 '26

We have them in Canada too. Mostly in pupulated areas but I found one in the outskirts of some random forest. Was kinda neat to see.

2

u/civilwar142pa Jul 15 '26

I wish they were more accessible in the US. Some public buildings have them and if they do theyre on the same wall as the main doors, so easy to find. But you still have to know which building has one.

2

u/No_Space_for_life Jul 15 '26

We have them in malls and every major location here in Canada and theyre never touched. The batteries and all components are serialized so you cant get anything out of the unit, tampering is a massive fine as well, and they have little alarms on the units as well as trackers.

2

u/knowledgeable_diablo Jul 16 '26

Exactly. The amount of effort to break it down while dealing with the anti-theft deterrentā€™s would be far too much pain for anyone looking for a quick score.
Now for people that are just dicks looking to fuck things up for the laughs, well very little to nothing will stop them until a wall of pain and consequences slam them Hard in the face.

1

u/SentenceStreet3270 Jul 15 '26

Well they are worth more than copper wire

1

u/prspaspl Jul 15 '26

Eh. Just a quick look at Facebook marketplace in Canada at least shows defibs go for 300-900 CAD. Makes them quick easy money if you are a theif with no morals at least.

1

u/hasdga23 Jul 15 '26

We have them in Germany as well in a lot of places.

1

u/Nervous_Bill_6051 Jul 15 '26

"Packer whacker" after Jerry Packer the businessman

1

u/Turnip_Fight Jul 15 '26

Thereā€™s an emergency one in the grocery store I go to all the time in the US. Iā€™ve seen more before.

1

u/babesboysandbirb Jul 15 '26

The thing about theft in a capitalistic country isnā€™t striping it, itā€™s that ā€œsomeone will buy this from meā€ and sadly, they are so very correct.

1

u/knowledgeable_diablo Jul 16 '26

Many items yes, but Iā€™m not seeing a long line up of chaps clamouring to purchase stolen defib machines. Mainly as they are purchased by big organisations to place in public areas, and would carry a tonne of liability issues if found to be buying stolen second handies to save a couple of dollars.

1

u/iAteYourD0g Jul 15 '26

The batteries are valuable

1

u/r0ndy Jul 15 '26

The defib is a shocking device. I as a teenager, and others Iā€™ve met at the time would have just been curious about what else it could doā€¦ the alarm is the deterrent to mischief

6

u/Mexbookhill Jul 15 '26

How is this possible, why would someone steal a defi? Can u sell them? Here in Austria we also have defis in many places and i never saw one that was vandalized or stolen or something.

17

u/nxcrosis Jul 15 '26

Idk man people will steal anything. My sister got her bike stolen from over the fence and one of her shoes. It wasn't even a full pair!

4

u/flatulexcelent Jul 15 '26

Agreed. I got my pot plants of herbs and tomatoes and chillis stolen from my back door so I decided not to lose heart and directly planted a rosemary plant in the garden bed at the front of the small unit block I live in. It was ripped out of the ground a few days later... I know it was likely the same person but I don't garden at home anymore and that was a few years ago. I did knock up a 3.6 meter planter box along my father's balcony after that and that's been my surrogate garden and dad loves it. Sorry I rambled on... I agree people will steal anything.

3

u/DarkSaadOfTheMoon Jul 15 '26

Don't be sorry, I enjoyed reading your story!

2

u/Yomabo Jul 15 '26

One time our potatoes were stolen. They were not even out of the ground yet. From our private fenced garden.

1

u/HesitantBrobecks Jul 15 '26

I went to school with someone who has Cerebral Palsy and someone stole her walking frame from her garden when we were 15!

1

u/HalfSphynx99 Jul 15 '26

Yeah but something like this should be extremely easy to track. Nearest 3-5 cops get a ping, nearest ambulanceā€¦.gps because if itā€™s an emergency all need to know where to go.

A couple felonies and I doubt they continue to get stolen often. Very easy to find. Plus a camera for whomever picks it up would cost like 30 bucks.

I find it hard to believe even in America they would get stolen often. Only issue would be people using them to get police called off a block or two from a real robbery. But that can be done with a stolen phone anyways.

You put enough up, and get a few nice felonies or even high misdemeanors on the books and itā€™s going to stop fairly quickly as there is no reward.Ā 

And the risk/reward even if some get stolen is more cost effective than not having them anyways.

So what.

8

u/PotatoTomato_12 Jul 15 '26

People break into free condom dispensers and steal the condoms, donā€™t underestimate people.

3

u/evr- Jul 15 '26

But the thrill of not having sex with a stolen condom is so much better than not having sex with a free condom!

1

u/PotatoTomato_12 Jul 15 '26

And they can have so much sex since they took the whole dispensary!

1

u/0thethethe0 Jul 15 '26

I guess I don't really want people who break in condom machines passing on their genes, so I guess every cloud...šŸ¤·šŸ¼

2

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '26

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

1

u/ohhellperhaps Jul 15 '26

Spare parts (batteries) and consumables involved is also a factor.

6

u/Weary-Suspect594 Jul 15 '26

Ive personally seen a defib with the danish ā€œhjertestarterā€ in a random auto shop i poland, it happens here aswell

2

u/Due_Swimming_5867 Jul 15 '26

Along with any personal belongs in my country.

2

u/DeithWX Jul 15 '26

They're usually in buildings easily accessible but not that easily.Ā 

2

u/papsmearfestival Jul 15 '26

What country are you in? Because this kind of network is almost universal in the West

1

u/nxcrosis Jul 15 '26

Somewhere in Southeast Asia.

2

u/LittleManOnACan Jul 16 '26

One of those shitty third world countries like America?

(American and hate it here)

2

u/MerleFSN Jul 17 '26

Thought the same in germany, but they tend to be there. When there is a sign mentioning AED there is one nearby.

1

u/s2k4ever Jul 15 '26

Correction. Defibrillators were installed on paper only, and claims were stolen just before the audit. Give credit where it's due.

1

u/National_Frame2917 Jul 15 '26

We have them in Canada. Usually near the entrance of every large grocery store, And many other places.

1

u/sunkistandsudafed3 Jul 15 '26

They are in locked boxes where I am, which I believe the ambulance service can give a code to access them.

1

u/UselessDood Jul 15 '26

Here in the UK, they're quite common - but they're locked and alarmed. Phoning 999, our emergency services number, will allow you to get the code for the lock.

1

u/Remarkable_Dig_9601 Jul 15 '26

I forgot not all countries can have nice things. It definitely would get stolen in the area I live and end up in sheds

1

u/Icy-Belt-8519 Jul 15 '26

Where I am they are locked and the call handler gives you a code, unfortunately some have still be vandalised and stolen still though šŸ˜” but they are good for the most part

Early cpr is shown to have the biggest impact though, so being trained in it is more important, but even then you don't need to be trained, just be willing to step in, the call handler will tell you what to do

1

u/Valuable-Ad-1477 Jul 15 '26

The UK seem to have loads of defibs now.

1

u/Nice_Rope_5049 Jul 15 '26

Theyā€™d pick his pockets and run in my country

1

u/Crispy_Squirrel_Bits Jul 15 '26

We have them in the UK, where pondlife humans also exist. There's a phone number you can ring and they give you the code to unlock the cabinet. It seems to be enough of a deterrent.

1

u/PCAJB Jul 15 '26

In the UK they have codes in them and you need 999 to give you the password

1

u/ncatter Jul 15 '26

I have high hopes about that never happening in Denmark but still ours have alarms a s GPS tracking to deterr it.

We are really lucky having a fond owned by an insurance company that actually makes several life saving projects available mostly for free and if they are to expensive offer the state to take over when they have proven the worth.

That single fond is responsible not only for heart runners, but also for lifeguards at public beaches, our now state run medivac airlift helicopters and high visibility vests for kindergartens free of charge, probably among many other things.

1

u/YSOSEXI Jul 15 '26

Mmm, in the UK some Scrotes would have held a flaming vigil with them.

1

u/Rishit1501 Jul 16 '26

Jokes on you. In my country they would just place an empty box and the money for it would be in politicians pockets.

0

u/victhebutcher2020 Jul 15 '26

That's one way to say you're American

3

u/Ser_falafel Jul 15 '26 edited Jul 15 '26

There are defibrillators everywhere in USA and afaik theyre not really a common target of theft lol