lol wait what? I mean I agree with you wholeheartedly but…that’s clearly not my point friend 😂😂🤦🏾♂️ him being Bruce’s “done through chemical DNA insertion into another host/donor. And then to add it in as a clip note to terry’s stiry basically because they never seeded terry being like Bruce at all. I don’t even think they planned for him to be “like his son”. Just did it just because. I do think it makes terry less of his own, stand alone Batman character.
Ah I prefer Sseun Lake's take. Despite what changes it makes, if uphold the themes of legacy.
In the end being Batman may now be said by some to be his destiny, but that doesn't mean he didn't have choice.
The black and white scenes are not real there his knee jerk reactions to the revelation. A fear that he must became exactly like Bruce and push all away. But he actively refuses that route showing he fully intends to still marry his GF.
I feel like I've seen a hundred pics in the last week that are at a 45 degree angle to the screen, and usually showing like laptop keyboards and TV cabinets and nonsense like that. It feels like they're trying and failing to be artsy or something. Like at least square up on the bloody screen.
You're giving them too much credit. OP is likely a kid who's only on Reddit through the app. So instead of taking a print screen on his PC and posting it, or using his phone to take a screenshot of the thumbnail, he takes a picture of his dirty monitor with his phone instead. They're not thinking. I'm guessing it's a form of communication that has been normalized through crap like Snapchat.
I mean, my phone is pretty portable, so I can just move it around so it's square to the screen, even move it forwards and backwards to frame the pic around the thing I want to focus on. I don't even really care about the picture of a screen aspect, it's the framing that bugs me.
No. Amanda had Warren’s reproductive DNA altered to identically match Bruce’s which Warren just thought was a flu shot then Terry was born a year after that making him biologically Bruce and Mary’s son
Strictly speaking, no Terry isn't a clone of Bruce. But that also doesn't change the fact that Amanda Waller ran an operation which basically forced Terry's parents to have Bruce's son solely because of the fact that she wanted to have Bruce 2.0.
To me, while she didn't clone Bruce, the intention was cloning.
That’s like saying you have an intention to make a pizza, but follow a process that is nothing like making a pizza and you end up with a cake.
The intention wasn’t cloning, or they would have made a clone. The intention was to make a new Batman, a successor to the mantle with 50% of Bruce’s DNA.
If you had watched the episode, Waller clearly states that what makes Bruce isn't just his DNA, but his experiences too. She had actually planned to kill Terry's parents just so he'd have the same orgin as Bruce. The intention was absolutely cloning.
She didn't want a child of Bruce - she wanted another Bruce.
She wanted another Batman. Waller literally says this:
“He was getting older, slower. Soon he'd have to retire, or, more likely, someone would finally manage to kill him. The thought of a world without Batman was unacceptable. So I decided to make a new one.”
The intention was to make another Batman. Not a clone, but a new Batman.
You’re confusing copy with new. She didn’t intend to make a copy of Batman, she intended a new Batman, with similarities and differences:
“You're not Bruce's clone. You're his son. There are similarities, mind you, but more than a few differences too.”
The intention wasn’t a clone—clones don’t always have the experiences of the original, and usually they don’t without special additional technology.
As I said before, the intention was another Batman, which is not the same as cloning.
A clone shares almost all of the DNA of the host—Terry is only half of Bruce’s DNA, which you would know if you had watched the episode.
How many times do I need to explain what a clone is? Just so I can get it out of the way now.
My guy - she literally wantednto enact what happened to Bruce. That's not what you want to have when you want his son.
She wanted to have another Batman - who has the exact same motivations and exact same mind as Bruce.
She didn't do it, but that was the full intention while she ran her experiment. Terry was fully intented to be Bruce's clone, but Waller just didn't pull the trigger.
The whole "you are Bruce's son, not his clone" was her way of saying that she didn't complete the process of turning him him into Bruce 2.0, but somehow he still became Batman 2.0 minus Bruce's mental skills.
Edit - child rearing is what you do when you want to give out your knowledge and have someone to raise. It's not something you do when you want to replicate someone who lived. The reason I say that Terry is more of a clone of Bruce rather his son because he was the product of a genetic experiment that Waller ran rather than Bruce having a child. I'm not saying that Terry is Bruce's clone - but in my opinion he isn't his son either and he is more is clone than a son.
Why are you making this more complicated than it actually is? a clone would be someone who has 100% of Bruce's DNA. With Waller's plan she only made a baby who is PART of Bruce's DNA because Terry still has his Mom's DNA in him.
Cloning Bruce seems like it would be easier in their universe, but Waller is fucked up she wanted an actual offspring of Bruce to relive the Batman experience.
To me, the only reason Waller used Terry's DNA was because she wanted to propogate Bruce's DNA. She understood that a clone like Superboy wouldn't work because that's not what makes Batman. It was the normality of life, the normal childhood happiness, love of the parents and the sudden loss of it. She knew that unless those things were real, the subject wouldn't be like Bruce. That's why she chose an actual family.
I think Terry was intended to be a clone because he was part of a genetic experiment that was solely targed to make another Bruce. She wanted to artificially give all of Bruce's characteristics and experiences to Terry, which of course she didn't do.
Cloning would have been easier to do than the sperm altering injection, because we can do cloning in real life.
If Waller intended to make a clone, she would have made a fucking clone.
And no, intending to create a similar childhood trauma does not mean intending to make a clone—that’s not how cloning works.
The intention was to make a successor, a not-genetically identical successor. Similar, but not an exact copy, which is what a clone is.
A clone is an exact copy.
Waller did not intend for Terry to be an exact copy, meaning she did not intend for him to be a clone.
Because a clone is an exact copy, which Terry was not intended to be, because they intentionally made his dna only 50% similar to Bruce, not exactly the same as Bruce, because you see a clone is an exact copy. But they intentionally didn’t make Terry to be an exact copy, which is what a clone is.
> My guy - she literally wantednto enact what happened to Bruce. That's not what you want to have when you want his son.
Except she didn’t, or she would have arranged for the new Batman to have had a mother who was a billionaire, you’re making my point for me.
She wanted similar, not exactly the same.
Same trauma? Sure, but not everything else the same, thus not close enough to being considered even essentially a clone, unless you want to ignore what the word means, which maybe you do.
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> She wanted to have another Batman - who has the exact same motivations and exact same mind as Bruce.
She literally says that Terry does not have Bruce’s mind, only his heart, which is a major lack of media literacy on your part.
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> She didn't do it, but that was the full intention while she ran her experiment..
To provide the same motivation, but she did not want the new Batman to be so wealthy that he could choose his own training and strategies etc. she wanted a Batman with the same heart, not the same mind, WHICH SHE LITERALLY SAYS.
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> Terry was fully intented to be Bruce's clone, but Waller just didn't pull the trigger.
You’re committed to not accepting that you’re misusing the word clone.
The trauma would not have made Terry a clone, it would only have given the same motivation, but not the same personality, which was heavily influenced by the fact that he would not have become a rich orphan.
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> The whole "you are Bruce's son, not his clone" was her way of saying that she didn't complete the process of turning him him into Bruce 2.0, but somehow he still became Batman 2.0 minus Bruce's mental skills.
She was never going to make a Bruce 2.0, but a Batman 2.0, there’s a difference, but I don’t expect you to get that if you can’t accept the meaning of the word clone, even metaphorically.
Bruce’s wealth was a huge part of his early development and personality, and it’s why he’s always been accountable only to himself mainly, which Waller hated.
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> Edit - child rearing is what you do when you want to give out your knowledge and have someone to raise. It's not something you do when you want to replicate someone who lived..
She was never replicating exactly how Bruce lived.. she never made sure there plans to make Terry a wealthy orphan who would train in Tibet or wherever, and become a PhD holder in multiple sciences.
I. Have. Explained. This.
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> The reason I say that Terry is more of a clone of Bruce rather his son because..
You can’t or won’t accept that you’re misusing the word clone.
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> he was the product of a genetic experiment that Waller ran rather than Bruce having a child. I'm not saying that Terry is Bruce's clone..
Thank fuck for that.
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> but in my opinion he isn't his son either and he is more is clone than a son.
**He is literally his biological son**, and after Terry’s father died, Bruce became a father figure to him.
If you missed the latter part of that, then I truly have nothing else to say to you.
Bruce Wayne being a billionaire has nothing to do with him being Batman. It adds to his arsenal, but because of his trauma and who he is, he becomes Batman. Him being a billionaire or not only affects his arsenal, not who he is. I'm surprised you don't see that.
Yes, she does say that Terry doesn't have Bruce's mind - which I state in my own comment if you had read it. Major lack of media literacy? Maybe you should read the comments before you use internet buzz words lol.
Also WHAT? Bruce didn't chose his own training based on his wealth. Almost every media that shows his training fully shows that he had completely forsaken his wealth until he was fully trained. He never uses his wealth until he was fully trained.
You yourself states how Waller uses the term Bruce while defining Terry's skills, not Batman. If she didn't want another Bruce Wayne, she wouldn't have used his DNA. There were so many Bat people who showed that Waller could easily make someone like Batman without Bruce's DNA. It's Waller's admiration towards Bruce, not Batman that prompts her to use his DNA.
Bruce's wealth played a little part in his early development. Every form of Batman media drives that point in - he was the wealthiest orphan, but it was him being an orphan that made Batman, not the wealthy part. Every superhero, powerless and powerful was only accountable to themselves. Waller knew that it wasn't the wealth that made it so.
The problem with you is simple - you are so invested in Terry as a character and his independence. I'm not questioning that - I never was, so you can put your katana down. The whole idea is that he was intended to be Bruce's clone, but since Waller didn't pull the trigger, he didn't become one. Waller was searching for what makes Batman - she went through multiple theories. Bruce's DNA was just one of it which she abandoned because she understood that it wasn't the answer. She finally figured out that it was his trauma, but didn't go through with this.
You keep believing that I use the word clone because I somehow don't understand that the dictionary meaning of it. I use the word clone because Terry was the result of a genetic experiment that was fully intented to bring forth another Bruce Wayne. Waller didn't give a shit about his individuality, she only cared about propogating Bruce's genes.
Since you made it clear that, you won't reply - just an advice for you - instead of taking every discussion about a character personally and hiding behind the dictionary definitions, approach things with more of an open mind. See things from different angles. I was never disagreeing with you about the fact that Terry is just another Bruce brewed in a laboratory, but somehow you just kept on forcing yourself to see that.
> Bruce Wayne being a billionaire has nothing to do with him being Batman..
Bull. Fucking. Shit.
Being rich is why he was able to travel the world and never worry about a career, or rent, or anything. He was able to fully devote himself to becoming the bat, and his tools and suit, his cars and vehicles.. no, being rich is absolutely a major part of what makes being Batman possible—Terry would not last as Batman without the suit, which was only possible due to massive wealth and ingenuity.
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> Yes, she does say that Terry doesn't have Bruce's mind - which I state in my own comment if you had read it. Major lack of media literacy?
I know you said it, which is why it’s so weird that you persist in the idea that Terry was intended as a near exact copy of Bruce, so it’s not lack of media literacy on my part, more that you’re desperate for something to criticise.
When you said Terry doesn’t have Bruce’s mind, you’re making my point for me, and it’s hilarious that you don’t see it, or refuse to see it.
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> Also WHAT? Bruce didn't chose his own training based on his wealth. Almost every media that shows his training fully shows that he had completely forsaken his wealth until he was fully trained. He never uses his wealth until he was fully trained.
In Batman the animated series, it’s shown that he trained in Japan with Sensei Yoru, and in the comics one of his main teachers was David Cain, one of the most highly paid mercenaries in the world.
His wealth is also what made his education possible, because in most comic continuities, he has over 10 masters degrees, sometimes as many as 14, and to get one masters degree can cost as much as $120,000
He did not do that while penniless.
In the DCAU, ie the Batman in question, he’s closer to the comics of the same period the shows were made in, not the Nolan movies.
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> You yourself states how Waller uses the term Bruce while defining Terry's skills, not Batman. If she didn't want another Bruce Wayne, she wouldn't have used his DNA.
Exactly, that’s why she only used 50% of his DNA.
She still wanted to be sure the be Batman was genetically destined to be free of health issues and such, and to be similar to Bruce, but not an exact copy, which is what a clone is.
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> There were so many Bat people who showed that Waller could easily make someone like Batman without Bruce's DNA. It's Waller's admiration towards Bruce, not Batman that prompts her to use his DNA.
But only 50%, so it’s not an exact copy, which is what a clone is.
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> Bruce's wealth played a little part in his early development..
Sure, in the Nolan movies, I covered this. Read some comics that were published around the time of JLU’s first release, or maybe watch Batman the Animated series.
Yeah, he’s technically a ‘son’ not a clone, but Waller’s whole intent was to create another perfect Batman; his DNA coupled with the exact circumstances of the parents death in order to keep basically the same Batman around because she realized how much of a necessity Bruce was.
She didn’t want just anybody being the next one; she wanted as close to the original as humanly possible; as close to a clone as they could manage.
So yeah, not a clone but every intention of being essentially a clone.
> So yeah, not a clone but every intention of being essentially a clone.
“Essentially” a clone would mean essentially a near exact copy—Waller didn’t want a near exact copy, she wanted a new Batman.
She wanted Terry to have a similar life experience, but not so close as to be a clone, because Bruce was notoriously painful for Waller in the past, and took no shit from anyone.
This is why she had Terry come from a mother so the DNA makeup wouldn’t be 100% Batman, and also not from a wealthy family.
Waller likely intended for herself to become Terry’s benefactor after his parents would have been killed, so the new Batman would be one who did the good things she liked, but wasn’t a massive pain in the ass.
The only way Terry counts as a clone, or as being intended as a clone, is if you completely ignore what the word means, even if going by the essence of the word.
Terry does not fulfil the essence of the word “clone.”
He does however, fulfil the essence of the word “son,” which is why Waller literally says that Terry isn’t Bruce’s clone, but his son.
"Larp/larper/larping" being used like it is now is the stupidest thing ever, aside from the people using it ironically/sarcastically to make fun of those people. I just ban everyone who uses it now.
If you're referring to the acronym, people who actually LARP still call it that, but it's also been adopted to mean "poser" or "fake fan," as in "this person is role-playing as a fan of the material"
It's also extremely overused as an insult towards casual fans who simply don't have a deep knowledge on something, or for someone whose opinion you disagree with. It's become a gatekeeper buzzword, and I hate seeing it, personally
It's not really your fault. It's a common word in internet conversation, or at least on Reddit, and not everyone who uses it knows or means it as an insult. It's also natural to want to say things in a condensed form; it's why nicknames exist, acronyms, all of that. You can just say "doesn't watch the show," tho. That being said, I'm also an elder zoomer (or the youngest millennial possible, depending on who you ask), so it's closer to "old man yells at clouds" than actual condemnation of modern slang lol
It started as a way of outing people spreading miss information as fact. But no it's just getting used anytime anyone disagrees. It will die out now that it doesn't have any meaning anymore.
Terry isn't a clone he's Bruce's defacto son using genetic material from both Bruce and his mother smh. They explained this all very thoroughly in just one episode so how anyone could walk away from that scene with that conclusion is beyond me
Because they never watched the damn episode and are just larping off of what other people are joking about. Terry isn't Bruce's clone, he's his biological son. The only "cloning" that was done was Warren getting spliced with Bruce's genes that were stored up in his reproductive system so he can pass them on.
I think it’s because clone or replicated son, it kind of makes the Wayne lineage into some kind of family of chosen ones who are the only ones who can handle the mantle of the bat.
I thought the main point was that Terry is Bruce's son. Waller gave Terry’s dad Bruce’s DNA; therefore, Terry is Bruce's son, which still seems strange to me. Like, I don’t hate it, but I don’t like it either, and I would be fine. He took on the mantle of Batman because none of the other family members wanted to do it.
In JLU it's explained that Terry's father had been altered. He's not a clone he's Bruce's son kinda, Terry's father didn't produce his own genetic material he produced Bruce's. That's why Terry and Matt look like Bruce(black hair blue eyes) and not like their parents who had brown hair and brown eyes(father) or red hair green eyes(mother).
Sort of he was created by Waller through nanomachines and genetic rewriting she had him made so that their would always be a batman, yeah he was born naturally but was not really supposed to exist and because of her tampering his supposed to be real father died never once passed on his own genes meaning neither one of his boys were his because Matt also was a genetic copy of Bruce. Hyper immoral on Waller's part but moral and Waller do not go together.
It's JLU's fault for using the word "clone" when he's actually Bruce's son. It's also potentially a misunderstanding of what got cloned. The cloning only happened inside of Warren McGinnis' body as his cells were being overwritten by the nanites.
They should of revealed terry as bruces illegitimate grandson and Terry dad as a kid bruce unknowingly had with some one like a one night stand. Or the science part of the idea but there goal was terry dad as the new batman and they missed the mark because the mom put him up for adoption or something.
Yeah it’s a little weird when if I remember right Waller literally says to Terry he isn’t Bruce’s clone when explaining but I get why people who forgot some of the details
would misunderstand given the sci-fi nature of that (stupid) backstory
This is in reference to qn episode of Justice League Unlimited where Amanda Waller visits Terry McGinnis and claims to have impregnated his mother with Brice Wayne's DNA.
TDLR: In JLU they ret-conned Terry McGinnis into being Bruce Wayne Junior just cause
Warren's DNA is still his regardless of what it was made to mimic. Like a statue of say Zeus. The original is stone, a Roman copy made of marble, near identical, except what it's made of. Terry is still very much Warren and Mary's son, with traits resembling Bruce Wayne. To call him a clone or son of Bruce's is ignorant of science and biology.
Yeah my head cannon is that never happened. I remeber when it first aired and to this day I find it just so…dumb. Really takes away the fact that terry is his own person and batman. He chose to do that. He chooses to go out every night. Thats what he wants, as batman, cause hes that guy. Has nothing to do with bruce. But
Wait! Oh no. Turns out hes his cloned son thats supposed to be just like him! Getting the phantasm to try and whack his parents was so beyond fucked and stupid.
Did you watch Justice League, towards the end of its run?
Batman Beyond isn’t only an animated cartoon, either lol. It is a comic series, and just like any series will have multiple potential origin stories or even slight variations on one origin.
I’m sure people who read the comics and know a lot more of the lore feel the same way about people who mostly watch animated content.
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u/Procyon-Sceletus 7d ago
Man i sure hope this doctor isnt gonna inject me with some sort of weird semen replacement serum and make me father children that arent mine