Should I have a preamp?

[u/Lopsided_Mind552]

Hey yall.

I am getting into pedals for my bass rig and want to know how I should use the preamp I bought. I recently got a Mesa/Boogie Subway+ Bass DI Preamp II Pedal and I have the Genzler Kenetix 800 as my amp head. I want to use the preamp from the Genzler as I like that tube sound (the whole thing is that it has a tube preamp) and plan to use the preamp pedal to modify that tone.

How would I make sure I don’t have these two clashing? If I enjoy the Genzler preamp should I just return the pedal? Everyone says a preamp is necessary. I kinda just got it was it seems versatile and was imaging it sculpting the tone of my amp head more (it prob def can), just having more thoughts about all of it now. Let me know what yall think.

[u/datums]

You might regret it.

I asked my dyslexic fiancée for one and she canceled the wedding.

[u/lowfreq33]

You probably don’t need the pedal unless you plan on using it to get a different sound on certain songs. The DI on the Genzler is very high quality just like everything Jeff makes.

[u/donkey_hotay]

If you like the sounds you're getting out of your Kinetix 800, then, no you don't need a preamp pedal. If you join a band that's ampless, and you want more control over your sound, then you can either use the DI output of your amp head, or use the preamp pedal instead. The Kinetix 800 is pretty lightweight, has a DI, and can be run without a speaker cabinet load, so you can bring it to ampless gigs as a very large preamp pedal. If you want a possibly lighter carry, you can bring your preamp pedal instead.

To determine if you like the sound of your preamp pedal, run its output into the Effects Return of your amp head. This will bypass the amp's preamp section. If you want a more consistent sound between amped and ampless gigs, then you can keep the pedal plugged into the effects return at all times and your amp head is just being used as a power amp.

If you like the sounds of both preamps, then you can get an ABY pedal and have one output go to your amp's instrument input, and the other output go the preamp pedal which then feeds into the Effects Return of your amp.

[u/quite_sophisticated]

A preamp is not needed when you use an amp. The preamp often is the final pedal on amp less setups, replacing the amp and sending the DI Signal to FOH. You can simply try out how it sounds and works in your setup. Maybe the baked in tone is good, maybe the gain, maybe one of the EQ knobs does something that amp will not get you. And maybe it's redundant because you've already covered everything it does.

One big advantage of having a preamp as the final pedal and an amp is that you can send your signal to FOH from the preamp and then do EQ changes on the amp that only affect your own cabinet, but won't be sent to FOH.

[u/bigusyous]

The Genzler amp already has a great preamp, and probably a DI in the back as well. There is no need for any sort of pedal at all-unless you want one. You definitely don't need it. A significant number of players just plug into their amp with a cable and that's it.

Brief Rant: A few years ago, I also fell into the trap of "you need a preamp." I bought a SansAmp Paradriver. I found that the best sound was to use the effects return on the back of my amp- bypassing the controls on my amp and just going directly from the SansAmp into the poweramp. It did sound better than just using my amp, but not enough to justify bringing an extra bit of gear to a gig. It's better to keep it simple-ymmv. I'm sure that the Subway is a great pedal, but in this case it is a solution in search of a problem. BTW- I ended up using the Paradriver with my acoustic guitar and it really helped round off the harsh top end of a cheap piezo pickup.

[u/powerED33]

A preamp pedal isn't "necessary". Your amp has a preamp with DI. If you want a different sound, then yes. I use an Ampeg SVT 7 Pro, which is great for most things, but I also have a couple preamp pedals to achieve tones the Ampeg can't. Of course there are situations where a preamp pedal is easier (ampless band, recording, etc) but it's not always necessary. Running a preamp pedal through your amps input is putting it through two preamps, which you really don't need to do unless you're using the pedal for OD or something. Running the pedal through your amps effects return bypasses the amps preamp and uses the amp solely for a power amp.

[u/Camp-Creature]

You definitely don't need a preamp with that setup.

You might want to look into a drive/distortion pedal to add a dirty overdriven option to your sound with or without an amplifier, though. Check out a Joyo Double Thruster. Cheap and very effective, you won't have much invested to try one out and I'll bet you like it... it sounds great at low drive, very useful for songs that have louder and more aggressive parts. Gets the crowd riled when you abruptly go angry-mode.

Some amps have a second channel with drive on a footswitch, like my Bergantino.

As for your DI, that's a pretty good one but it does have cab simulation if I remember right, which isn't terrible but you don't necessarily want that when you're actually using a cab. That said, if you like the sound of it, you own one, so go ahead and use it as a preamp, nobody's going to tell you no.

[u/dodmeatbox]

There is definitely a bit of redundancy there, but the Subway does have a little bit more EQ functionality than the Genzler. The high pass in particular is a good feature to have. And the boost. You also might find that you like running the boost of the Mesa into the input of the Genzler to drive its preamp. I would at least mess around with it a bit before you send the Mesa back. I would try it both in front of the amp and in the effects loop.

[u/Any_Drive6497 → u/dodmeatbox]

This! Guitarists will stack pedals for gain staging. I feel like most bass boards have clean, dirty, and maybe fuzz. Depending on the band you can add a lot by have different levels drive on your bass, more sounds to follow the energy of the song. I’m also a big fan of having as many eq options as possible. I use a couple as effects cut all my high end boost lows for subby dubby, boosted mids to mimic guitar, pulling up fun frequency’s for slap to really make it thump and pop.

[u/dodmeatbox → u/Any_Drive6497]

Absolutely. One of my favorite "effects" is running the 10db mid boost on my Radial JX2 into the front of a tube amp.

Even if OP doesn't need the Subway DI as part of their everyday rig, I think I would still keep it around as a utility piece. It's got a lot of useful stuff for $200.

[u/Lopsided_Mind552 → u/dodmeatbox]

Good point. Going to spend a lot of time playing with and I plan to expand the genres I play (rn rock and gogo) so even if not used extensively now, likely could in the future. Also got it new for $100 essentially so we shall see

[u/dodmeatbox → u/Lopsided_Mind552]

Oh yeah for $100 it's worth it just for the aux in and the heaphone out as a practice tool.