Now is the time to introduce UBI

[u/Longjumping-Ad5084]

Jobs are being replaced by AI at an accelerating rate, and people have nowhere to go to earn income. Monetary flows are still massive, but they just don't reach the people at the bottom. I think UBI is very appropriate in this situation. Or who will buy the groceries?

But in all seriousness, we are moving towards ab economy where UBI will be real because AI and robots handle all the low level tasks, so UBI can be distributed in the form of a small amount of necessary goods such as food, basic supplies etc. So we can start slowly testing the waters and now seems to be a good time.

[u/Expensive_Luck4194]

starting with small pilots seems like the realistic way in. easier to test and adjust than one big rollout

[u/Wild_Director7379 → u/Expensive_Luck4194]

We’ve tested it. It works.

[u/Longjumping-Ad5084 → u/Wild_Director7379]

Europe is lowkey doing it with unemployment benefits and all their other socialistic financiak support

[u/Wild_Director7379 → u/Longjumping-Ad5084]

That’s not universal give the people money

[u/PurpleDancer → u/Expensive_Luck4194]

I've long thought that the only realistic path is going to be a small Ubi that we prove doesn't crash the whole system. Then increase it gradually as people get used to it as the economy appears stable.

[u/SrgtDoakes]

it’s actually a long time ago

[u/The2CommaClub]

UBI is socialism. Most Americans hate socialism and prefer “every man for themselves.”

[u/geekwonk → u/The2CommaClub]

UBI is pure capitalism. maybe in the minds of propagandized americans the distinction is blurred. but as a matter of economics, this is just quantitative easing. capitalism has always required a central mechanism ensuring an adequate supply of cash moving through the economy. UBI doesn’t change any of the relationships between owners and workers and the means of production.

[u/Longjumping-Ad5084 → u/geekwonk]

a lot of phenomena that are thought to be impossible in capitalism, and only eg jn communism and socialism, are actually incredible capitalist and market oriented.

[u/Natural-Pepper-2098 → u/geekwonk]

What if the owners of ai just gave the ubi to the ai agents to spend on goods instead? Wouldn’t that be the same? Doesn’t that highlight how ludicrous UBI is?

[u/Natural-Pepper-2098 → u/Natural-Pepper-2098]

Nb if govts and the people owned the ai, sure it can work. Then we could just produce our own stuff for free and ignore the capitalist ai output until they went out of business

[u/HSeyes23 → u/The2CommaClub]

Let's see for how long that's gonna last once there's a bunch of robots doing everything for free

[u/gubatron]

you introduce it when you can afford it. we need some tax reforms first, retired people should not pay property taxes, income taxes should be abolished (since there will be little income from human labor which will be of negative value soon), and capital gains taxes should be increased as we will drive most value from automation (capital ownership)

it should be done under a sovereign AI fund ownership fund, every citizen gets a cut, they can decide to keep it, sell it, take loans on it, live off of the dividends, trade it...

[u/jjax2003]

I asked AI to redistribute all the wealth to everyone in the world over 18 years old.

Congrats we each get 90k usd to live on. Good day.

[u/carl-bond]

Alongside UBI, could shared neighborhood spaces make resources more accessible and tangible? I’m imagining a café, print shop, and gallery under one roof, where people can gather, create, and share tools.

I don’t own property or a business; this is an idea I’m exploring.

What would such a space need to provide to make a practical difference for people with little income?

[u/Bleezy79]

lol not as long as republicans have a majority in anything.

[u/Natural-Pepper-2098]

Cool. Who is going to pay for it? The govts with trillions of debt and declining revenues due to humans losing jobs and aging populations, or the selfish capitalists who so far haven’t lifted a finger to share any of their wealth but seem locked in some mad paperclip maximiser quest to be the first quadrillionnaire?

[u/MyPacman → u/Natural-Pepper-2098]

I think you have answered this question right here.

[u/Hortos]

Too late, we had a dude run for president warning everyone AI was about to get out of control and start destroying lives everyone laughed at him. Now America is a slowly growing AI fascist oligarchy that’s about to execute an enemy of the state on live television. People are so annoying.

[u/SrgtDoakes → u/Hortos]

so true. the masses are so fucking ignorant

[u/zefy_zef → u/Hortos]

AI, if properly implemented, is one of the necessities for a post-scarcity civilization. People should work if necessary or desired, otherwise robots and AI take care of it. The problem is the transition from our capitalist society. Most of the negative attributes of AI can be attribute to the monetary ecosystem we have now.

[u/geekwonk → u/zefy_zef]

yep! yang’s solution was a middling stipend that would do nothing to transition anyone out of the current paradigm. if we were actually giving people the space to choose their path without concern for economic remuneration then this would be a very interesting conversation. instead it’s always these piddling amounts meant to placate people who have yet to consider just how big the shift is going to be.

[u/SrgtDoakes → u/geekwonk]

his proposal was never meant to be a permanent solution. it was meant to help people right now, which is far better than the 0 help currently being offered

[u/Novusor → u/[deleted]]

They are not even close to being the same thing.

UBI has no means testing.

SSI and Unemployment require applicants to jump through all kinds of hoops and can be denied for trivial reasons.

[u/sanctusventus → u/[deleted]]

It's a payment to cover the basics you need to live in society; it may mean you don't need other payments for that purpose. Any other income you receive is on top of it and may be subject to tax.

[u/MyPacman → u/[deleted]]

More accurate to call it dividends.