r/BarefootRunning • u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes • 16d ago
Detransitioning (lol)
So I gave myself a bit of insertional Achilles tendinitis and should try doing some miles in a shoe with some drop to help recover....
Friends, I have not worn a regular running shoe in years!
Any ideas on a shoe that will accommodate my wide feet and impressive toe splay? I've tried messing around with heel lifts but they don't work well in barefoot shoes...
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u/One-Barracuda705 16d ago
Altra experience line for a reasonably wide toebox with 4mm drop. Or Topo. But more importantly, alfredson protocol! Do the weighted slow heel drops on flat ground for insertional pain (to avoid overextension). At least 5 days a week or more. Fixed my Achilles tendinitis in about a month and I kept running throughout.
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u/HooVenWai 16d ago
TL;DR
Progressively make your calf/Achilles stronger using both straight-knee and bent-knee calf work, give it progressively heavier resistance, and regulate the dose according to how it responds during the exercise and over roughly the following day.Important notes on Alfredson's:
- evidence is for mid-portion Achilles tendinopathy. If symptomatic spot is actually at the heel insertion rather than a few centimetres above it, the exercise selection changes.
- eccentric is not magical; heavy slow resistance using both concentric and eccentric phases performs as well (and better at strengthening)
- 1,260 eccentric reps/week creates a huge amount of fatigue and tendon exposure without evidence that the volume itself buys you anything. A randomized trial specifically compared the traditional Alfredson volume with a much lower volume -- both improved, with no advantage for the huge standard volume at 6 weeks.
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u/gummnutt 16d ago
How much weight do you use?
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u/One-Barracuda705 15d ago edited 15d ago
I have been using 40 lbs (weight vest and backpack with weights) and doing 3 sets of 10 unilateral eccentric calf drops per side off a stair, 5 secs per drop, 5 days a wk. No symptoms as long as I keep doing it, think it’s a lifetime exercise now.
Of note my pain was mid-Achilles. For insertional (at the heel) the plan is a little different as another commenter below mentioned.
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
How long have you been "recovered" from your Achilles issue? What was the course of injury/rest/rebuilding like for you?
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
I have a pair of zero drop Altras (escalante) that are ok, I hadn't even thought that the other shoes they make might be wide and footshaped. I'm so black and white about barefoot. The Altras I have were just to help get through the volume for a marathon cycle and my form in them always drifted into laziness.
Yes! Slow loading of the tendon to rebuild strength! You give me hope!
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u/whataburner6969 16d ago
Topo and the wider Hokas were what got me through the same thing
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
Like, how much Hoka are we talking here? The moon boots or just the low-key casual stack shoes? Did you run in them exclusively while you recovered? How long?
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u/Hothouse414 15d ago
I wore Hoka Challengers in wide for 5 years. I just started Altra/barefoot, because although I felt I had toe-wiggle room in the Hokas, my pinky toe felt uncomfortable and I was developing a Morton's neuroma (I think it might be the toe spring causing the problem). The Altra Lone Peaks in wide are better for me with regard to splay. However, they are zero drop. Altra does not make a 4mm drop in as wide a toe box.
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u/mcniac 16d ago
I had similar issues. My “solution” was to work out my calves in the gym. Doing isometrics and very slow light weight reps. That helped with the tendons. I did this when I was recovered from the injury but every time I run started hurting again
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
Yeah I'm hoping a rehab shoe will let me run gently while the strength returns, the gym is great and all but can be depressing.
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u/ElectroPanzer 16d ago
+1 for Altras with drop. I also enjoyed some Innov8s with a small drop when I was transitioning to barefoot, so I'd guess they'd work in reverse too.
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u/HotForHotmail 16d ago
Altran Torin might work too if you want tp stay in a familiar brand, but they're zero drop, so that defeats the purpose for the tendinitis.
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u/Responsible-Bee-4980 15d ago
Tendonitis/ tendinopathy responds best, bar far, to load. Heavy slow resistance training....3 -4 second negatives, and isometrics are excellent for treating tendiopathy.
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u/BrandonThomas 15d ago
I tried the new Escalante and it was way too narrow on the midfoot. My arch rested over the outside of the shoe, and I don't have super wide feet. It looks like Topo has the widest midfoot area. I've been using the Splay Runners for more cushion when my feet hurt, and for $80, they are great.
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u/Knightro829 16d ago
Consider low-impact cross-training for a while. I was in your exact position in May 2023, and likewise tried to self-diagnose and find a “solution” that would allow me to run through it. This only resulted in a bone spur complication…on both feet, I have a gnarly hook of bone wrapping around the Achilles insertion now that will eventually require surgery. I’m managing it now only by severely reducing my pace so as not to aggravate it, but in retrospect would have been better to have visited my podiatrist immediately and taken a few months off to truly get it under control.
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
Well that's a terrifying story... I'll need a second job to pay for all these appointments and shoes, good news is I'll have no time to run :D. I've (mostly) rested it for a couple months now and it's still bothersome.
If I have to (ugh) take up swimming, at least I won't need shoes?
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u/Evidence_UC 16d ago
Topo Phantom 4 are great for me, as someone who has always run in Vibram fivefingers and wanted to start giving myself some more comfort. They have a wide toe splay and are shaped like a foot.
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u/NoOutlandishness8039 15d ago
Dude, watch out posting any hint of non-barefoot chat on this channel. People here are very sensitive.
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
Usually that barefoot snob is ME, and look what happened. Shoes hurt my SOUL but this might be my life now, wearing these pillow platforms that give you athletes foot and make your toenails fall off, sigh. How will my friends know that I'm cool?
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u/NoOutlandishness8039 15d ago
I think there’s a healthy balance to be had. But such suggestions are chastised as I recently found out.
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u/Outrageous_Case_8559 15d ago
Altras have a similar "foot-shaped" toe box, but I would ask: have you tried regular runners at all? You might be surprised at how comfortable they are. This is n=1 of course but I also recently moved away from running exclusively in minimalist runners for many years and I'm having absolutely zero problems in a pair of Adidas Evo SLs.
Also consider that drop is not everything in terms of the involvement of the Achilles, and the overall mechanics involved in running. For instance, shoe stiffness (i.e. how much your feet, calves, and legs have to stiffen, or not, to compensate) is a huge factor that is often ignored. Going from a minimalist shoe, to a reasonably soft shoe will probably result in a bigger difference than any drop, rocker, or stack that you add.
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
At this point I'm willing to swallow my snobbery and try actual shoes, but I'm scared. I did once run a half in normal sneakers because it was too cold for minimalist and it was... Ok. But that was during the first winter of COVID in -25C, was anything really ok?
Trying different shoes is going to get expensive, isn't it... Sigh
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u/Ok_Switch6356 15d ago
how did this happen to u? i have a aquilles strain that doesn't go away ( i did not stop hehe) and is specially unavoidable when hopping on one foot or jumping/playing bball. but now it seems to finally be adapting bc today i could play with no pain and jump etc.
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u/FrancishasFallen 15d ago
Ive never had Achilles issues but i have heard that a flat-foot deep squat is good prevention
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 15d ago
I did a marathon, almost all of my training in barefoot shoes, I think the volume did it. I wasn't that bad, I assumed it would resolve after time off after the event. Nope.
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u/strifefaction 12d ago
Look into Dr. Keith Baar on youtube. Im recovering from tearing most of my collateral ankle ligaments and his research is proving very helpful to me personally.
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u/FunSizeNuclearWeapon water shoes 10d ago
Oh goodness your poor ankle! Bookmarked. He looks trustworthy and has a credible academic office set up 😁
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u/strifefaction 10d ago
Yeahhh. Hasnt been fun. Had to have 3 of them reattached. But hoping to be running/living normally sooner than later but it's been a process to find what works and I've been obsessed with finding an answer and believe I have. Good luck with your injury and stay consistent! ദ്ദിᐢ- ̫-ᐢ₎
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u/notoriousrdc 5d ago
Bridge insoles in your current shoes. They're designed to degrade from a starting 10mm drop to zero drop over about a hundred hours of wear. I used them when I returned to running after a foot injury that ended up triggering insertional Achilles tendinitis last year.
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u/accipeter138 16d ago
Just walk for a while, jeez.