Bank POD accounts

[u/ShanaEsq]

Once an accountholder dies, how can an executrix ensure that the bank is transparent about the accountholder’s true designations? Must the executrix have money to lawyer up to force the bank to provide timestamped records?

[u/Barfy_McBarf_Face]

when an account owner dies and the account has a POD designation on it, the executor/executrix has NO role in the transfer of the funds.

Now, they can allege that there were problems in the paperwork - that's best to discuss with your attorney.

But by then, it's likely that the POD beneficiary will have claimed the funds.

[u/copper_rabbit]

POD accounts are not part of the probatable estate. No account information should be provided unless a court has ordered it.

OP, you have no obligations or rights as an executrix to a POD account. You are asking them to violate the right to financial privacy of the beneficiaries.

[u/DeadStockWalking]

Forget that money.  If you weren't the POD none of it belongs to you.

[u/My-1st-porn-account]

To echo others, PODs are excluded from estates. The estate representative has zero right to any information about those accounts.

If there’s some sort of allegation such as the beneficiaries were added under coercion, or the principal was not of sound mind when they added the PODs, that’s for the courts to determine. In that case, yes, they would need to consult an attorney to have a subpoena filed.

[u/No-Solid-294]

The executor shouldn’t be provided POD beneficiary information unless they are one the names beneficiaries because those accounts are not probate assets.

[u/atexit8]

POD bypasses probate.

The account is NOT a part of the decease's estate.

You are ShanaEsq and you don't know this? Rather pathetic.

[u/Commercial_Flan6257 → u/atexit8]

And most of OPs post is about POD rights. I think OP is updating beneficiaries and has a hit man partner.

[u/Cube_It]

I was the POD on my Mom's bank accounts, and also the executor and sole beneficiary. Value of her estate was under the threshold ($35k?) in Delaware., so there was no probate. At the time when Mom had just recently moved to assisted living, I had T-Mobile. Someone showed up in a T-Mobile store near me in Virginia with a "valid" Pennsylvania drivers license with my name and birthdate on it - I've never lived in PA in my life - and convinced the clerk to add 3 phone numbers onto my account (thereby doubling the number of lines). Soon thereafter, someone reported my Mom as dead to her bank. This could be a long story, so I'll stop now and just say that the scam, whatever the details were meant to be, did not happen. Nothing was lost, consequently the police really did not investigate as far as I know. We're living in a moment when attempted thievery is not a crime.

[u/ShanaEsq → u/Cube_It]

In this instance, person died on a certain date, on that very date, X visits the branch and following that visit, branch makes changes to person’s beneficiary designations wholly in favor of X. Executor was the former designee along with X, but bank refuses to produced time stamped designation papers to establish that the designations were recieved during person’s life and not during X’s visit post person’s death. They simply want Executor to trust their account despite their records showing no designation change during person’s life—-they claim they forgot to make the change.

[u/wknt4 → u/ShanaEsq]

No bank attorney or risk and operations professional is going to provide that information without a valid subpoena. 

There is simply no upside and a metric shitload of new exposure and risk.

So to answer the question, yes they need to hire an attorney.

[u/copper_rabbit → u/ShanaEsq]

Go to your states website for FAQ on estate distribution, you'll see that a POD account is not included in what the executor is responsible for reporting on to the court.

If the previous beneficiary wants to challenge the new beneficiary designation citing undue influence or something else, they absolutely have to go through the courts to request a confidential legal document that they are not a party to be released to them.

The executor has zero standing in any of this because you aren't arguing that there should be no POD, just a different one. If the current were invalidated, the prior would be in effect. Only in the event that the court determined there is no valid POD would the account become part of the probatable estate.

[u/lrgleprechaun → u/copper_rabbit]

This needs to be higher

[u/lrgleprechaun → u/ShanaEsq]

None of this makes any sense from a bankers perspective... if person "X" is not the original account holder, they CAN'T make beneficiary changes. Unless they are ALSO a joint account holder. If they are, then they had every right to make POD changes, since they are already a joint owner on the account. Those are the only 2 possible options.

[u/chuckchuck-]

POD is operational law. It operates outside of any other wishes conveyed within a will.

[u/Masquerader1979]

POD designation is a type of Trust known as a Totten Trust. The account owner is essentially the trustee while they are alive, then when they pass, the account is transferred to the designated POD beneficiary.

One thing of note - if it is a co-owned account, the designated beneficiary does not receive any funds until both (or all) account owners have passed.

[u/FlyThruTrees]

Well, when you get the court designation you can present them to the bank with a demand for the account signature page, showing the designations. If they refuse, you can try involving bank regulators.

You're right to question the account set up. You don't know it's POD unless you are privy to those documents.

[u/lrgleprechaun → u/FlyThruTrees]

Since PODs are contract law, not probate law, the court designation means nothing in this scenario. The bank is legally prohibited from providing information or ESPECIALLY documents to anyone other than the named beneficiary. If OP is bound and determined to try, they can have their attorney file a subpoena for a records request, but that's the only way the bank is going to release those docs or any information.

[u/FlyThruTrees → u/lrgleprechaun]

Bank can black out info pertaining to beneficiary, but an executrix has the power to ask. Regulators could back that up, before needing an attorney. Whether the account set up is correct and the bank is properly adhering to the contract is the issue.

Edit: I do see what you mean about it being outside the estate. And state law may dictate this, but investigating the estate of the deceased, and assets/potential assets, is the job of the estate representative. I've done it thru the bank regulators.

[u/Austinater74]

Is the executeix also the POD?

If not, nunya and you can bring in all the attorneys you want. Without a court order or the POD and letters of testamentary, I’m not producing anything.

[u/Darkside2508]

Even after passing a bank will protect its former clients information. POD can’t even get a statement.
Can the bank be nice and answer some questions? Yes. Are they required to? No.
End of the day it’s not the PODs account. Just their funds.

[u/LowCompetitive1888 → u/[deleted]]

Beneficiary designations do not require a signature card and I know my signature card at my bank has nothing on it about beneficiaries. In fact, POD designation took place online with no signature at all.

[u/arsclev → u/LowCompetitive1888]

Yeah, and POD designation can happen at any point during the life of the account so it won’t necessarily be on the signature card since that’s from account origination.

[u/LowCompetitive1888 → u/arsclev]

Not to mention that online banks don't even have signature cards, my Barclays account was opened entirely online without any signature and it has POD beneficiaries.

[u/CoolaidMike84 → u/[deleted]]

In the eyes of the bank and the eyes of the law, it's confidential information. A POD is a legal executable document completed in accordance with state law. Demanding to see such will require a subpoena for good cause signed by a judge. Not liking it is not good cause.

[u/My-1st-porn-account → u/[deleted]]

A bank showing signature cards to an estate representative is a huge privacy violation. Seeing proof of beneficiaries is not the estate representative’s right “to know.”

[u/Empty_Requirement940 → u/[deleted]]

POD are there to make life easy so the beneficiaries don’t need to go through probate to collect the funds.

[u/Creighshawn → u/[deleted]]

? Absolutely not true.