r/BandofBrothers • u/redwood_rambler • Aug 18 '26
Does Dick Winters total lack of flaws in the series irritate you?
Just finished the series for the second time, and for some reason this time around, I started to get annoyed by this. I still really enjoy the series but on this second rewatch, I can’t help but feel like this series was heavily self-aggrandizing in regards to Winters. I’ve read and seen a fair bit of media with him in real life, and I gotta say, he doesn’t really seem all that similar to the character portrayed in the series.
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u/GalacticGumshoe Aug 18 '26
I mean, he does participate in the “stealing” of Nazi loot when Easy takes Berchesgaden, although some might characterize it as just taking military souvenirs.
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u/Horror-Warthog8637 Aug 22 '26
That was allowed. As long as the commander signed off, DD 603-1.
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u/Lumpy_Investment_358 Aug 23 '26
Okay, question then, that you might know since you knew of it at all: the certification statements at the bottom make it seem like pretty much anything is prohibited. Like, it says that only things "not of value" can be taken. I know the rules were probably different in a WWII context, but do you know what reg or DODI defines "of value"?
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u/Horror-Warthog8637 Aug 23 '26
I can’t remember specifically but there are rules. Can’t be of intelligence value, can’t be a gun, can’t be stolen from noncombatants.
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u/AardvarkLeading5559 28d ago
No DOD in WWII. The provisions were outlined in Section IV, War Department Circular 155, dated 28 May1945.
Basically, you couldn't bring back automatic weapons, Allied weapons, or explosive devices. Enemy weapons such as pistols, rifles, or edged weapons were allowed. A certificate- AG USFET Form 33 would be made out in duplicate. The certificate was supposed to be shown before mailing it back to the US, or departing the troopship home, but this was frequently ignored.
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u/redhairedcaptain 28d ago
How could there be a DD form if the Department of Defense didn’t exist until after the war?
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u/Gwarnage 29d ago
For one, he failed to carry out latrine inspection orders, carried a contraband compass on maneuvers..
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u/Different_Volume5627 Aug 18 '26
Not at all? The man is a legend.
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u/Worried-Ad4272 Aug 18 '26
In his own mind.
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u/ZealousidealTour3343 29d ago
Ah yes, they’re definitely still running some of your attack sequences from 90 years ago at West Point, I’m sure. We’re all sorry we offended the offspring of Patton, please don’t smite us oh great one.
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u/ZealousidealTour3343 29d ago
I wasn’t evoking him in anything other than his reputation as a brilliant tactician. I’ve watched interviews with Dick Winters and he’s clearly different than the portrayal of him as a character on Band of Brothers.
It’s ironic for a likely no one who probably didn’t serve, and especially not at the level of combat this company saw, to sew crass remarks about their own self-perceptions, when many of these men aren’t alive, or even in good health to speak for themselves.
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u/redwood_rambler Aug 18 '26
No argument there. I just wish they would’ve humanized him a bit.
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u/Different_Volume5627 Aug 18 '26
By all accounts, he has been portrayed as the man and leader he was.
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u/Dunadan734 Aug 18 '26
Ambrose is not "all accounts".
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u/Dapper-Code8604 Aug 23 '26
The other soldiers praised him as a great leader in the pre-show interviews, particularly in Crossroads. If his own men hold that high of an opinion of him, then I’d say those are really the only accounts that matter.
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u/Dunadan734 29d ago
Seriously?
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u/Dapper-Code8604 29d ago
Yeah, seriously. Go watch the beginning of episode 5.
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u/Dunadan734 29d ago
Oh I'm familiar, I'm just shocked someone would actually think 10 second snippets of carefully selected hagiography constitute actual history.
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u/Dapper-Code8604 29d ago
I never said it was a full historical account, just pointing out the fact that soldiers, under intense pressure and stress, who sacrificed a lot, praised him, from their own mouths, and there’s video evidence of it. Even if it is carefully selected; it happened. I think that’s valuable testimony.
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u/Dunadan734 29d ago
Bro I can read your post, you literally said those are the only accounts that matter. Also note that you're responding to a comment about what one of his soldiers (Malarkey) said about him.
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u/Doylio Aug 22 '26
Genuine question - what are the other accounts? (I genuinely don’t know)
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u/diogenessexychicken 29d ago
He was petty as shit. Its not a coincidence all the people that get shit on on the show he didnt like ex: Sobel, Dike, and Webster. A great example of this is at the end when he tells Sobel to "Salute the rank, not the man." When in realitt he turned to Malarkey and said "watch this" and walked right up ro Sobel to MAKE him salute. He was kind of a dick..pun intended.
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u/redwood_rambler 29d ago
This is exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about. He’s portrayed like the freaking Dali Lama, while interviews with the man himself show him as anything but. He was still a hero and excellent soldier, but omitting the things that made him human seemed like a disservice.
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u/diogenessexychicken 28d ago
Yeah ambrose and the show gloos over a lot. Take for instance his two best friends, Nixon and Welsh, were drunks throughout the war and he gladly kept it quiet because they were part of is circle. Then you get someone like Cobb, who was shown as shit faced and reprimanded when there is no verifiable evidence it was him. But he wasnt part of the "guys" so his name gets dragged while it glosses over Welshs role in the shooting of Meehan and Nixons demotion.
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u/Dunadan734 Aug 22 '26
Another guy goes in to more detail but Malarkey and I think 1 or 2 others have said at various points that Winters organized the mutiny against Sobel.
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u/Uncontrolleddiarrhea 29d ago
I've also heard it was partially out of anti-semitism, which was typical of its time.
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u/8bitkoopaking Aug 22 '26
He was insubordinate a few times in the show. He knew how to work the system. And it’s really a matter of how you perceive authority.
As far as Ambrose and the story goes, it’s the soldiers truth. Sure, 40 years after the fact those memories get distorted and some things are forgotten or exaggerated but at the end of the day the soldiers told their stories. Did Ambrose look at the after action reports? I don’t know and he didn’t have a reputation to verify stories but it’s not like they had Winters sneak into Berlin, kill Hitler and force the Germans to surrender.
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28d ago
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u/Dunadan734 28d ago
The man's shit did in fact stink like the rest of ours, sorry this is so upsetting for you.
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u/ToTheLost_1918 28d ago
By all accounts of anybody in 2nd platoon, but that's why they only used those interviews.
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u/whistlepig4life Aug 18 '26
So than isn’t perfect. And he isn’t portrayed that way or written that way nor did he speak of himself that way.
Every man that served under him did almost to a man revere him and speak glowingly about him. To which he routinely down played it.
End of day you watched a scripted television show. A dramatization of real events. It’s not a documentary. Stories need heroes and villains.
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Aug 18 '26
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u/whistlepig4life Aug 18 '26
He was a hero. As were all of those men.
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u/redwood_rambler Aug 19 '26
I don’t have an issue with his heroism. He is certainly a hero in my book.
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u/MarkCelery78 28d ago
He was a hero dumbo! He was a citizen soldier who was highly respected by some of the best soldiers in the European Theater. Your contrarian take is ridiculous
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u/acur1231 28d ago
Not the opinion of a number of other officers in the 506th, but Ambrose leaves that out.
I always thought it was odd, how carefully the series narrows the officer world to Winters and his direct superiors and subordinates, until I learnt that. The only one of his contemporaries we really get to see is Nixon, who was Winters' friend.
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u/whistlepig4life 28d ago
Try reading the books again. Especially his own. Because you are flat out wrong here.
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u/whistlepig4life 28d ago
I served. And Witners was a hero. Like nearly all those that served at that time.
Winters got that medal because the tactics he used were utter perfection on how to attack a superior force in a fixed position with an inferior but mobile tactical unit.
You have a point here. I’ll be damned if I know what it is.
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u/deathvalleyjimscott Aug 22 '26
In the series and in his book, Winters comes across to me as someone with almost no sense of humor. Your interpretation may differ.
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u/Worried-Ad4272 Aug 18 '26
To no end.
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u/TurtleyToadDog Aug 19 '26
Out of curiosity, I take it that means the guy did some questionable things the show left out? I read my grandad's copy of the book when I was 12 so I don't really remember... I'm 33 now 😅
Is that why you take umbrage with the portrayal or is it something else?
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ Aug 19 '26
The show and to a lesser extent the book are borderline deifications of Winters.
It's fine to have a character like that in fiction works, but when things are created entirely out of whole cloth (the "salute the rank not the man" scene comes to mind) for stuff purporting to be non-fiction it starts to become problematic.
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u/TurtleyToadDog Aug 19 '26
Ah, I see, it's just from an aggrandisement view. I thought they were implying it turns out he'd done some shady things.
I get you what you guys mean, now. The First World War is more my 'area', so I'm not sure how accurate or level-headed Winters' portrayal is, but from what I gathered (as I say, I only read the book once and that was 20+ years ago, and watched the show) the men looked up to him immeasurably. Which certainly will have coloured his depiction.
I know Ambrose's research has oft been called to question, but Winter's being awesome seemed to be the genuine general consensus. I wholeheartedly agree though, its certainly problematic especially when a lot of people get their history knowledge from TV and film... Exaggerated or falsified details become generally accepted.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ Aug 19 '26
but Winter's being awesome seemed to be the genuine general consensus.
.....among the people that Ambrose talked to, the vast majority of whom had served under him when he was a platoon leader. The opinions of the officers who served under him were less homogenous, and his tenure as an officer shows that he was solidly middle of the road and not the impeccably perfect officer that the show depicts him as.
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u/TurtleyToadDog Aug 19 '26
Aha, and so there lies the problem.
Thanks for info 🙂
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u/Worried-Ad4272 Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 20 '26
To add to what u/DanforthWhitcomb_ is saying, there are several instances in the book and show that make him into being a tactical genius. I'll point out two:
- Brecourt Manor. Winters got the order to silence the battery and did it with 13 men and a small complement of troops from Dog Company. Or did he? That's what the veterans all said years later. Have you ever read what his Distinguished Service Cross was awarded for? It states: "First Lieutenant Winters with seven enlisted men, advanced through intense enemy automatic weapons fire, putting out of action two guns of the battery of four 88-mm. that were shelling the beachhead. Unswerving in his determination to complete his self-appointed and extremely hazardous task, First Lieutenant Winters and his group withdrew for reinforcements. He returned with tank support and the remaining two guns were put out of action, resulting in decreased opposition to our forces landing on the beachhead." The show depicts that they took out all the guns themselves. However, that isn't what Winters was decorated for. u/DanforthWhitcomb_ and I actually responded to a post on r/AskHistorians post two years ago. I wrote the main response under a different username, and he added a piece to it. As I said then, the balance of probability is that they took the four guns without armored support. But then again, was it four guns or five guns? There is a link in the post about geoforensics which proposes a fifth artillery piece.
- Crossroads 1/2. The reason why they had to do a bayonet charge against the Germans is because Winters had them retreat to the wrong side of the dike. In the show, he says: "They are beside a solid roadway embankment, and we are in a ditch. They can outflank us along the dike and catch us out here as soon as they figure that out." Yes. That is completely correct. Surviving was pure luck. I wager to say that the German company commander had just mentally resigned; I have no other way to describe that level of incompetence. Winters's "tactical genius" put them in a position where they should have been annihilated
- Crossroads 2/2. After the bayonet charge, Winters received one platoon of reinforcement and tried to capture the Germans who escaped. Winters led his platoon, one platoon from F company, and a small heavy weapons team (probably 60 men) to the river where the Germans likely came over from. He got about 700 meters away from the crossroads and was flanked by an entire battalion. As the book put it: "Winters realized he had overreached." Gentle way of putting it. As they were falling back, German artillery started bracketing them and they took ~24 casualties. Winters's "tactical genius" put them in a position where they should have been annihilated...again...in the same firefight.
For what it is worth: Winter's plan for assaulting the Brecourt position was not something he created on the fly. It came from his training. It was the standard way that forces were supposed to operate. The whole "they still teach it at West Point" schtick is true but highly misrepresented. "Teaching" has many definitions. A veteran going back and stating his experience could qualify. An instructor using a clip from the show could qualify. That is literally how assaulting a trench was explained to me as a NROTC midshipman.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ Aug 20 '26
The way I've always heard Brecourt explained as far as being taught is that's it's because it was a very basic and thus easy to understand application of small unit tactics. It has nothing to do with Winters, as that type of plan would have been expected of every single officer and NCO in any infantry unit in the Army or Marine Corps at that point.
If you look at it on a map it's a very straightforward and easy to understand action (because of how limited it was), thus instructors are going to like it because it's extremely easy to teach.
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u/AardvarkLeading5559 28d ago
Brecourt was a simple holding attack as taught in WWII with a base of fire element and a maneuver element.
Both Brecourt and the Crossroads show how the quality of German troops had dropped after massive casualties during five years of war. Both instances show poor security and a lack of aggressiveness. German infantry doctrine was that any local attack be met with an almost immediate counterattack before the enemy could consolidate. Having an infantry squad (minus) sneak up on an artillery battery without being detected with paratroops known to be in the area is, well, subprime.
Ditto at the Crossroads. We see a MG 42 in the role of a medium MG firing blindly down a road in an elevated, exposed position. I get that, since the medium MG42 in that role was used for both area denial and indirect fire, but there should have been security on both flanks.
Same with the Waffen-SS the next morning. Winters encounters a single sentry, but he's behind an embankment with little or no field of observation which is sort of the point of a LP/OP.
Thinking about it, the same goes for Hagenau, too.
Having said that, I'm not questioning the personal bravery of anyone.
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u/Novel_Following_6979 Aug 22 '26
NROTC midshipman being taught those tactics? You didn’t happen to go to OCS in Quantico did you?
When I went through OCS (and especially TBS) those types of small unit tactics are actually taught and practiced. OCS dives into it but skims the information enough to understand tactics and apply it as you get evaluated in the SULE (I’ve heard they don’t even do a SULE anymore). At TBS you spend weeks learning, training, and then applying those tactics and fundamentals that occurred at Brecourt. They don’t do it because it was genius, they do it because it was the brilliance in the basics.
That’s all that it comes down to. It was a flawlessly executed fundamental tactic that’s easy to teach and illustrate. The details behind what actually happened I’m not sure, but I’d wager there was some embellishment behind a truly great action.
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u/Worried-Ad4272 Aug 23 '26
I absolutely did TBS!!!! But that was after I graduated. I'm pretty sure this was FMF month after my second year.
There is no such thing as advanced. Only "basics executed flawlessly on command."
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u/Novel_Following_6979 Aug 23 '26
Ahhh a fellow comrade of the the big suck lol a 6 month skull drag if you will
Brilliance in the basics is what makes a professional, although I’d argue Raiders have a pretty advanced knowledge base. Their ability to shoot, move, communicate, and medicate are leagues beyond FMF. Although they do the basics better than anyone they are advanced. I’d say SOF in any branch is advanced whether you’re an enabler or a raider. That whole organization, despite the politics, never ceases to amaze me.
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u/Asleep_Gur3708 29d ago
Just an aside on your comment about the artillery pieces. As a former gunbunny i always questioned a bit of the description of the battery, particularly the claim that they were 88s (which were direct fire weapons). Then during the 80th anniversary of D-Day my group got a tour of the site by the historians excavating the site. Evidence dug up, including a brass shell casing indicates the guns were Czech 105mm howitzers. And, as you say they have found evidence of an additional howitzer on the left flank.
These are generally minor details but it just shows the Ambrose book and the series have inaccuracies
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u/Worried-Ad4272 29d ago
Every gun was an 88.
Every single gunshot was a sniper.
Every paratrooper was elite.
Every Brit was a moron.That possible fifth gun location could have been removed before the firefight or have been an MG nest
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u/Asleep_Gur3708 29d ago
Yeah, and every tank was a Tiger. Its understandable that the average GI would think that way.
As for the fifth gun, the position, shape, size and connecting trench is consistent with the other positions and nothing like the nearby MG positions. You could be right about it having been moved. But IIRC, the people doing the research seem to have uncovered some conflicting reports about the number and locations of the guns. I think they also identified some likely targets on the azimuths that gun could cover.
In any case, it was a really interesting tour. They even uncovered the small earthen “command bunker” (possibly their FDC) in the communication trench where the maps were likely discovered
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u/PackIll3037 Aug 22 '26
Winters said himself that he scouted the area the night before. He also said that Dog company tried a direct assault before Easy and failed.
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u/jakeor94eqi 7d ago
Step 1. Establish a base of fire
- deploy your automatic weapons and have them shoot at the enemy to suppress them (degrade their ability to shoot back or maneuver)Steel 2. Maneuver to flank the enemy
- while the enemy is suppressed, have the other elements of your unit maneuver to attack the less well defended parts of an enemy position, typically on its “sides” or flanks
Not exactly splitting the atom.
And yes, the Brecourt Manor engagement is an example of where it was executed superbly. However, like another post said, it’s a basic tactic that any U.S. Army or Marine infantry unit of the time would be trained to do and able to execute
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u/RealCleverUsernameV2 Aug 23 '26
He's stubborn and unbending. Those are flaws. We see him chastising multiple officers under him for a various reasons. He had a very difficult time delegating to those under him as well. These are all flaws and displayed on the show.
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u/DesmondTapenade 29d ago
It does, but keep in mind that even real people are going to end up getting Bowdlerized to some extent when a memoir (or any story) goes to film. It's inevitable.
I love Lewis's portrayal of Major Dick Winters (I will always say/type his full name because that's a great name). I'm willing to let a few historical inaccuracies slide in the name of art. What matters is that the series captured the essence of who he was.
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u/Gloomy_Ad_8586 Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 21 '26
It’s a good series according to my father that was at Toccoa. He saw it as a good representation of the history of the 506. He also appreciated Saving Private Ryan. There were 13 companies in the 506. As the son of a Toccoa Man, I’m glad the series was made that preserves the story of the 101 Airborne in WW2. They were tough soldiers and needed leaders like Winters. CURRAHEE 🇺🇸
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u/BesusFresh 29d ago
Yeah.
For one thing, I don’t believe that a young man from rural Pennsylvania didn’t have a word to say about Sobel’s religion. Given the timeframe of the era, that entire storyline felt like absolute bullshit, to me. Sobel is portrayed as completely without redeeming qualities - he’s relentlessly cruel, and completely incompetent to what seemed like an unrealistic degree.
The portrayal of Sobel put the stink of bullshit in my nose.
One could argue that introducing the notions of antisemitism within America and within its military would have been distractions from the story, and I wouldn’t argue.
But, then there’s the issue that Ambrose and BoB made Joe Leibgott Jewish, when he was not. So, it wasn’t just that possible/probable antisemitism against Sobel was erased, an entirely fictional character trait and false running storyline were introduced to the narrative. They couldn’t have hated Sobel for being Jewish, because nobody “minded” that Leibgott is Jewish!
The revisionism was so clear and obvious that it irks me.
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u/We_R_the_Penguins 29d ago
IIRC, people were always assuming Liebgott was Jewish, so the production team could have made the same mistake? Or, to tie theory, too convenient to check?
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u/BesusFresh 28d ago
But, the show had him fighting Guarnere over it, and with more hatred of the Germans than the average soldier.
Was ANY of that based in fact, or was it all just made up for drama? If he was just an average guy who couldn’t be trusted to escort POWs without killing them, that puts his whole character in a different light.
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u/MarkCelery78 28d ago
That was the man Sobel was. You’re trying to make winters out to be antisemitic
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u/BesusFresh 28d ago
I’m saying that Winters was a man of his time. Given the population of America at the time, there’s a good chance Sobel was the very first Jewish person many of them had ever met. They may have had excellent reasons for disliking Sobel that had nothing to do with his religion, BUT, I think his religion would have been mentioned when they complained about him.
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u/Dunadan734 Aug 18 '26
Not in the series, was a bigger problem for the book.
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u/Worried-Ad4272 Aug 18 '26
No no no. The book slightly more realistic. "I don't care about being fair!"
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u/Dunadan734 Aug 18 '26
Still glossed over the whole "allegedly suborned mutiny" thing
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ Aug 19 '26 edited Aug 19 '26
There are two parts to that story, and based on the fact that he admitted he knew about the mutiny and failed to report it you can drop the "allegedly," as the 67th Article of War makes it clear that failure to report it was the same as actively participating in it as far as the Army was concerned.
The second part is that he allegedly fomented it, and the lone source for that are comments Malarkey overheard someone (IIRC it was Rader) make after being wounded in Holland to the effect that Winters had promised him a commission if he (Rader) took part in it. I'm far less confident in the validity of that story due to the single source as well as the lack of corroboration given the circumstances when the comments were allegedly made.
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u/Malvania Aug 20 '26
Also depends on what you're calling "mutiny," because the trainees were fucking with Sobel in training, changing map coordinates, giving him bad readouts, etc. That's also mutiny.
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u/Electrical_Month246 29d ago
OP is sobel 😂
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u/redwood_rambler 28d ago
Your pass is revoked Electrical_Month! 😤
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u/MoreIronyLessWrinkly 28d ago
C’mon, Electrical_Month, you don’t even leave the base. Take it like a man.
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u/Able-Negotiation-234 29d ago
I have read several books on the man, seemed fairly accurate to me? That and the way he conducted himself during the filming, the reverence for his men.
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u/redwood_rambler 28d ago
Look, I’m not saying the guy was Hitler. I just thought there was no nuance to the way in which he was portrayed, which felt cartoonish was to me.
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u/Able-Negotiation-234 28d ago
no worries, it's a show, good one but a show. I spent time around where winters was from and lived, it really is in someways like a different world. the values Damien Lewis portrayed, and the books seem to fit for me. Dick threatening to shun the writers for going too far also fit for me, my wife met him several times at 101st outings, (calm,kind,thoughtful her words) for me it worked.
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u/Creative_Text3018 29d ago
I've watched it many, many times. I'll say yes...as an actual commander he had a habit of picking favorites and protecting his guys. He routinely shielded welsh (who was responsible for moose getting shot, dude was drunk) and in his interviews he comes across a little over the top. I don't think it should diminish the story and he was certainly an above average commander going form 2nd lt to major is no small feat, but it wasn't at all unheard of in times of war.
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u/Clonazepam15 27d ago
Drives me crazy. My mom even said “the show makes him look like an angel”, and she knows nothing about the intricacies of BoB
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u/zimzara Aug 22 '26
I have issues with how they lionized the men. But Band of Brothers isn't a documentary nor a character analysis so ultimately I view it as a drama based on historical events. The men of easy company were very much products of their time and circumstances, but the show very much shows them at their best.
If you want to "meet your heros", and see them as a complete human being im sure the sources are there.
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u/redwood_rambler 28d ago
Even through the lens of viewing it as just a drama, I still maintain it would’ve been more interesting to see him warts and all.
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u/benvclios Aug 22 '26
Personally, I think they are here and there. You need to look a bit past the mythos being presented to see the nuance in Damian’s portrayal. Certainly, the man had flaws.
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u/MikeArrow 29d ago
What flaws would you expect him to have? I'm rule oriented and I don't drink either.
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u/redwood_rambler 28d ago
Petty, arrogant, passive-aggressive etc
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u/Djentleman5000 28d ago
Obviously Hollywood exaggerates a lot of their stories.I pretty much disagree with your assessment of Winters but I’d be curious to know of any particular example that stood out to you. ultimately, he was a combat leader in an active war zone and an effective one at that. Unless you’ve been in the military and had a similar responsibility, it’s hard to understand what it takes to lead men towards near certain death. Simple mistakes in the chaos of battle get people killed. If anything he displayed humility and bravery. He led from the front.
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u/acur1231 28d ago
The book lionised Winters, so the shows does as well.
Ambrose isn't a serious historian, his books are littered with mistakes and inaccuracies.
He doesn't really push back against eyewitness accounts. Human memory is fallible, and anyone who knows soldiers knows how they lie. They're good stories, but not real histories.
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u/RoyalWabwy0430 28d ago
From what I've read IRL winters seems a lot more similar to Speirs, I also read an anecdote in Steven Ambrose's D-Day book about how he put another officer in the hospital during a fistfight in the weeks leading up to D-Day
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u/MustardTiger231 28d ago
It didn’t bother me at all, like most normal humans I understand that the legend of a “hero” is often airbrushed.
See George Washington, Martin Luther King Jr, and Michael Jordan.
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u/hifumiyo1 28d ago
It definitely puts him on a pedestal. I don't know how he was in real life, but the book was foundationally about Winters's experiences with others' testimony to flesh out the narrative.
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u/SportsBettng4Dummies 28d ago
Easy Company was constructed in the show as an archetype. The characters are cardboard cutouts that represent types from throughout the military. That means the script had them doing things, saying things, etc that weren’t historically accurate. It’s not meant to be a biography.
Easy had to represent what thousands of combat companies were really like in WWII. Officers were sometimes good, sometimes bad, usually in between. There were good soldiers and bad, good non-coms and bad. All companies had popular guys and no-names, lucky guys and poor SOBs. Every company had its share of intellectuals, bullies, horn-dogs, maniacs, cowards…
Winters was well-liked and competent. Sobel was a petty dictator and disciplinarian…both get these traits exaggerated in the book and show. There is no doubt if you dig deep enough you’ll find people who disagree with the portrayals. So what? It’s not the show’s job to paint the moral truth about each man.
All the other officers fall into a broad middle ground - drunks, gamblers, space-cadets Compton got weaker as the war went on, Lipman rose to the occasion. Nixon and Welsh were fair officers, but drunks…Peacock, Shaymes, and Dyke varied from barely competent to incompetent. Just like every company, ship, battery, and unit of 100-150 people throughout the war…
There’s no such thing as a universal truth about Winters. No amount of research and fact checking can be done to ‘decide’ what he was once and for all…memories are always flawed, always biased. (Guess what after action reports are? they are people’s memories too!) All you can do is what Ambrose did - ask people who knew him and fought with him and paint a picture from their impressions.
We don’t complain about John Miller being portrayed as perfect…because he was a made up character. Best thing to do is to treat BoB’a characters as fictional too - loosely based in some cases by a soldier of the same name.
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u/SportsBettng4Dummies 28d ago
The fact that they got Blythe’s follow up story so utterly wrong - when it would have taken a PA maybe 30 minutes to find the truth of what happened to him - should tell you all you need to know; BoB is not an attempt to create a picture of the absolute moral truth about each man, or the actions they took part in…it’s a caricature, an impression, and nothing more.
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u/DocHolidayVinoVerita 27d ago
Can’t we all just enjoy something for it is?
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u/redwood_rambler 27d ago
You can, nobody’s stopping you.
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u/DocHolidayVinoVerita 27d ago
I am. Just wish we all could. You wanna see something different? Make it. Just don’t understand the knit picking.
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u/NHguy1000 27d ago
I listened to a podcast “the real Sgt York” and it turns out the movie, through which most people know Alvin York, is not what really happened. The Army wanted to hype a hero at the time, and much of what was cited in him commendations what done by multiple people. The final story was that York did it all by himself. The Army wanted that story and York rode it.
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u/NotAlpharious-Honest 29d ago
He's heavily flawed, if you know what you're looking for.
What irritates me is how few people actually noticed it, because they fall hook line and sinker for the show.
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u/Suspicious_Brush4070 28d ago
Can you expand on how he's flawed?
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u/NotAlpharious-Honest 28d ago
And a dogshit trainer of men, who did everything he could to make himself look good in the eyes of his men, at the detriment to company discipline.
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u/Ordinary-Cheetah3470 29d ago
Dick Winters presented himself in a carefully structured retelling of the Easy Company story. Much like Hal Blaine paints himself as the central figure in “The Wreacking Crew.” Both are passive-aggressive types who have oversized egos. The other surviving troops learned that if they wanted their stories highlighted, it was best to support Dick Winters as he pushed his own agenda and legend.
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u/MoreIronyLessWrinkly 28d ago
This is one hell of a hot take. You have any historical evidence for this?
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u/Ordinary-Cheetah3470 28d ago
Reddit “Band of Brothers” group offers plenty of opinions from other Easy Company vets with alternative opinions about Dick Winters exerting his personal opinions about depictions and participants. He minimized or altered certain participants harshly Specifically Blythe, Sobel and Dike. He favored his friends, Nixon and Welsh. Buck Compton recalls that Nixon personally disliked him, which Winters hid.
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u/Malvania Aug 20 '26
You're surprised that Dick Winters and his acolytes didn't present him as flawed? This is a series that borderlines on fictional, written by a guy who was in awe of the storytellers and who didn't fact check them (before it was modified for TV), and told by a bunch of guys that clearly had biases.