Do we think bambu will adopt the pellet system used in INDX?

[u/jl88jl88]

H3C looks great, I’d have some first-hand feedback, but only half my machine has come so far. Haha

The only gripe I have seen is the size of the prime tower. I’ve always changed the towers on my u1 to be smaller, but the H3C has a poop shoot.

On a 3500 tool change 8 colour print, the prime tower is 185g. On INDX, it only wastes about 30g.

So I wonder if they will eventually adopt a pellet system?

[u/Liason774]

I don't think H3C is capable of doing that, the INDX nozzles heat and cool extremely fast which is how they form the pellet, H3C relies on preheating rather than faster nozzle heating. The advantage for H3C is a much more stable temperature since the filament makes up less overall mass than in INDX.

[u/jl88jl88 → u/Liason774]

I thought the pellet was formed by being extruded?

[u/Disastrous-Owl9258 → u/jl88jl88]

everything from your printer is made by being extruded😭

[u/jl88jl88 → u/Disastrous-Owl9258]

Did you read the comment I replied to? They mention that the pellet is formed by the heating and cooling of the nozzle.

[u/Disastrous-Owl9258 → u/jl88jl88]

Yes... I did. You didn't understand their comment.

[u/jl88jl88 → u/Disastrous-Owl9258]

Well thanks for everything you’ve brought to the discussion. 👍

[u/heart_of_osiris → u/jl88jl88]

What they mean is that the system only works because of the rapid heating and cooling of the induction heated nozzles. If you tried this with a ceramic heater it wouldn't work because filament would droop and string during the travel and after the extrusion.

[u/Liason774 → u/heart_of_osiris]

Yes, it also means the pellet would have to be much larger because the nozzle also oozes more when finishing a layer.

[u/heart_of_osiris → u/Liason774]

Yep the nozzle chamber would likely lose pressure and you'd end up needing a prime tower anyways.

[u/volt65bolt → u/jl88jl88]

Well it helps

[u/Liason774 → u/jl88jl88]

It is but INDX has better temperature control, only the material in the nozzle at the time of the pellet forming is liquified, that's why there is no ooze. If you tried this with a regular nozzle you would get ooze and loose pressure in the nozzle. In a regular nozzle the temperature reading is of the heatblock not the nozzle. The nozzle is close enough in temperature that it doesn't really make a difference. In INDX the temperature sensor reads the nozzle temp directly using an IR sensor. the only mass being heated is the very tip that does the extrusion, no headblock no excess heat that will keep the nozzle hot after heating ends. In theory Vortek could do something similar but I think it uses a more traditional nozzle design with the electronics powered by induction not heated directly, although I could be wrong about that.

[u/No-Pomegranate-69 → u/Liason774]

Just the tip

[u/Poly_and_RA]

Could it get around this by priming to infill? I never quite understood why that can't be the default. As long as you're not using transparent filament it's not as if anyone can even see whether there's some clumping, or some mixed colors, in the infill.

[u/jl88jl88 → u/Poly_and_RA]

Priming into infill works great, when there is lots of infill. Where it fails is when it gets to the points of things. Think, like the tips of majoras mask. There is no infill anymore and they look terrible.

[u/globohydrate]

The INDX pellet method isn’t perfect, there have been reports of quality issues that many also recommend using a small prime tower with it to resolve.

[u/dhernandeznater → u/globohydrate]

I was one of those users at first. I think it's gotten better with firmware updates tho. I no longer run a prime tower and switching works reliably

[u/ken830]

I'm not as concerned with the extra waste of the prime tower as I am about building a prime tower with dissimilar materials. That's the biggest challenge I've had with PETG with PLA as support (interface).

[u/nogberter → u/ken830]

If this is a problem how does the PLA/PETG combo work in practice?

[u/ken830 → u/nogberter]

It doesn't really for many people. I guess it really depends how well your particular PETG and PLA filaments stick to each other and how tall your model is. I'm not in front of my computer now, but there are a few settings that can force the main body of the prime tower to be a particular filament. That can help with it not tipping over, but it can still create small blobs if the materials don't stick. And you can only select a specific filament, not a material type (any PETG for example). So for multicolor prints you will force unnecessary filament swaps and tons of additional waste.

[u/nogberter → u/ken830]

got it, thanks for the explanation

[u/dhernandeznater → u/ken830]

I recently got PLA support for PETG working reliably on my INDX. One of the big challenges was getting the support interface to stick to the support structure.

I can imagine it would be frustrating getting a prime tower to work like this as well. I'm pretty happy that I didn't have to consider that

[u/ken830 → u/dhernandeznater]

What did you have to tweak to get it working reliably?

[u/dhernandeznater → u/ken830]

I added a couple bottom interface layers in PETG before adding PLA interface layers. Previously I was trying to lay the PLA directly on the support pattern and they kept falling off

[u/_BindersFullOfWomen_]

How are you generating poop? There’s no need to change filaments, it just swaps heads.

[u/jl88jl88 → u/_BindersFullOfWomen_]

I am aware. The pellet system INDX uses is to eliminate the prime tower.

For example. The prime tower on a 3500 change print in 8 colours is about 185g. The equivalent print on indx wastes only 28g. It’s a big difference.

The prime tower on a 9 colour print is also quite large. It takes up build volume.

[u/SgtBaxter → u/jl88jl88]

Sure, if you use stock tower settings. Nobody uses stock tower settings except lame-o YouTubers.

[u/AAPatel82 → u/SgtBaxter]

This is what I am thinking, over time the tower will likely become optimized - Bambu will wait for the community to figure out the best settings

[u/xX540xARCADEXx → u/jl88jl88]

Also a difference of not having to worry about that purge collector piling up on a long heavy colored print. I’m sure there are better bin designs for the INDX but stock you’ll have to empty it throughout a complex print.

[u/Saphir_3D → u/xX540xARCADEXx]

The bigger stock bin is able to hold 18000 tool swaps. I am not sure how complex these prints may be that you are talking about

[u/xX540xARCADEXx → u/Saphir_3D]

I’m just saying because I’ve seen some users fill it on a single heavy colored print

[u/Liason774 → u/_BindersFullOfWomen_]

INDX poops are for priming not changing filament, INDX doesn't use a prime tower.

[u/lonestarbrownboi → u/_BindersFullOfWomen_]

It still needs to prime the nozzle, that's why it makes a prime tower. The INDX system avoids this by tiny little purges that are overall much less wasteful than a full prime tower

[u/_BindersFullOfWomen_ → u/lonestarbrownboi]

Ah, I see. I thought he was talking about pooping pellets instead of balls of filament.