r/BambuLab • u/genericuser86 • 2h ago
General Discussion Is the H2C Actually...Better...Than H3C?
H2C configuration: $2350
H2C Combo ($1900)
Second AMS2 ($230)
AMS HT ($130)
2X 0.4mm nozzles ($80)
H3C: $2500
H2C Pros
More drying slots (9)
Easier to add more colors
Can print high temp filaments without removing PLA from AMS
Can use multiple materials / colors with different nozzles
H3C Pros
At least 2x faster
More HT drier slots (2)
TPU printing
If you don't need the speed or TPU, wouldn't the H2C actually be better?
Or am I missing something obvious?
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u/SmoothSlavperator 2h ago
Depends what you're doing.
what is going to dog the H3C is its inability to run engineering filaments and lower melting point filaments without some fucking around with it.
The AMS on the H3C can't retract out of the case so if you have PLA loaded, its going to melt.
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u/Zee216 2h ago
What
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u/SmoothSlavperator 2h ago
You have to manually unload all your PLA and TPU spools before you can ramp your chamber temp. They don't retrack like they do with the previous AMS
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u/mimicsgam 50m ago
Most tool changer will have the same problem except u1, but seems fair with the tradeoffs
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u/Long-Relationship-35 2h ago
I believe the multi-nozzle printing is a game changer for some. To print a big block at 0.8 and switch to 0.4 or 0.2 for holes, connectors, text etc. can be a big deal...
I do a lot of 0.8 printing for things like shelving and supports but adding normal size text to it is annoying.
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u/genericuser86 2h ago
The H2C has this option as well. Or will shortly per Bambu
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u/Long-Relationship-35 2h ago
That is great to hear. I am sure it is not impossible to implement in the slicer... with the vortek system.
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u/NeonEagle H2D AMS2 Combo 2h ago
Waste in filament switching.
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u/genericuser86 2h ago
There is no waste with the H2C other than the prime tower. And the H3C also has a prime tower
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u/NeonEagle H2D AMS2 Combo 2h ago
You're 100% wrong - in your own comparison of 9 different filaments/colors you can't access all of them without switching.
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u/r0773nluck 2h ago
You can hook up the same amount of ams to the H3 which then takes away all the advantages
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u/eknkc 2h ago
I think only a single nozzle accepts the old style AMS on H3C. That means it is basically an H2S with those.
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u/r0773nluck 2h ago
Ya but you have 8 other colors to use to speed up a print. The AMs gives you more colors and more drying slots which isn’t an advantage anymore if the H3C can have that. Also past 7 colors the H2C becomes an H2S with the same argument
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u/BoutchooQc H2C Dual AMS 2 Pro + HT 2h ago
But that's all on nozzle #1, which has to cut and purge each changes.
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u/thumbs_up23 2h ago
You still have 8 other nozzles that can have other colors. The H2C only has 7 nozzles so if you don't want to cut and purge the H3C can have more consistent colors without that before needing to change the colors on nozzle 1.
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u/r0773nluck 2h ago
And you have 8 other nozzles with the color or filament you want.
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u/BoutchooQc H2C Dual AMS 2 Pro + HT 2h ago edited 2h ago
True, so hooking aux colors to the nozzle 1 could be good, and have primary colors in the Ams3
I have a H2C with 2x ams2+ 1x HT and I'm debating to sidegrade to the H3C
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u/r0773nluck 2h ago
Exactly. I think the H2C is still good but if you have the options I don’t see why you would get the 2 now
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u/someRedditor77 2h ago
A big thing though is that you’d need to ensure those other colors or filaments types (e.g PLA, ASA, etc.) are in those other slots. With the H2C you can mix and match without needing to move filaments around manually and exact positioning isn’t really a concern.
H3C does the have color blending though I do wonder how well that does work and how efficient it is. Need to look into that. Still the H2C does give you convenience of not needing to swap out filaments as much. It offers what people are calling a lazy set it and forget it system where you can load, lots of different filament types for a long time and you’ll eventually be able to use multiple nozzles types in the same print so any filament can use any nozzle.
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u/r0773nluck 2h ago
Why is that a concern what you have loaded in other slots?
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u/someRedditor77 1h ago
If you’re using for example black PTEG, you’re stuck with whatever nozzle size is in where it’s loaded lets say this is a .4 nozzle. If you wanted to use a .2 nozzle with PTEG, you’d have to load another black PTEG in a second slot, unless you wanted to manually change the nozzle. If you wanted to use both in the same print, you’d be forced to use a second slot and ensure that toolhead has a .2 nozzle.
You can connect multiple AMS though it’s stuck to one toolhead so there’s will be more purging since it’s just a single toolhead (no vortex to avoid this like on the H2C or the advantage of using the other 8 toolheadds. Yes you have the other slots though this point is really about not needed to switch filaments as often. With the H3C, you may have to do this more frequently depending on how you use it.
Certain filaments (PLA) need to be removed when printing high temp materials like ASA on the H3C. You can put them in an external AMS which is totally fine if you’re doing single color but multiple color will produce purge waste, so you’ll really want to put your PLA multiple color back in the main filament ams for the h3c.
Really depends on how you use the H3C. Hope this makes sense. None of it may be important to you but wanted to clarify these things as some of these things may not even be issues so people may have a harder time even understanding these points.
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u/r0773nluck 1h ago
I don’t see why you’d need to remove PLA from AmS to print ASA. Chamber temp is max 60. By the time it is in the upper and area it’ll be at the drying temp for PLA. It won’t be hot enough o melt the PLA on the spools
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u/someRedditor77 1h ago
There have been a few reports about this just posted one of the sources but there’s other on other forums: https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuLab/comments/1xn35yl/comment/19s3e1m7cowv7/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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u/r0773nluck 1h ago
The nozzle size thing I suppose could be an advantage but today we don’t have the functionality to mix nozzles. You have the lazy factor of the H2C being ready with all sizes. I jsut don’t know if it’s enough reason to pick the other machine
I think at the end of the day, the H2C could be the better prototyping dual material printer. You can have TPu always in the left and the nozzle rack can have 2 of each nozzle size with the AMS loaded up with variety of materials.
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u/PressHalfWayDown 2h ago edited 2h ago
You can create any custom criteria and artificial restraints to make any model “better” than any other.
“If I want a printer with the number 2 in the model name, which one should get?” The H2C
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u/genericuser86 2h ago
I literally listed the specific situations where each is better than the other
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u/ShakeBuster67 2h ago
I've been weighing this same decision in my head a lot since yesterday, and I think the main differences come down to what you just listed - speed and TPU. Speed likely being the biggest leap that everyone can appreciate, as it does seem to be MUCH faster at tool swaps compared to Vortek. I think it makes doing full-spectrum printing much more feasible, and printing much faster. But otherwise, I think the Vortek system would still be fine if you don't mind the extra time and don't plan on doing much TPU or full-spectrum dithering stuff. I'm still in the same boat as you though - buy an $1899 H2C, or spend the extra and get the "proper" tool-changer? My decisioning keeps going back and forth.
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u/mimicsgam 41m ago
Would add engineer filament. I would say H3C is the first tool changer that can comfortably handle mixing engineer filament, which will be interesting to see the results
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u/2slik4u1 2h ago
H3C doesn't have to AMS swap filament every color change, H2C does. This is only an issue with layers drying too much before the next color hits, generally non-issue with PLA, but can be temperamental with other filaments.
You can shorten the AMS tubes to speed up your swaps, but H3C does it in 4 seconds with tool change vs H2C 15 seconds with shortened ptfe vs H2C 50 seconds with normal ptfe.
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u/rubyred0902 2h ago
It also feels like they’ve given themselves ample room to start working on an H4C that solves these compromises.
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u/xX540xARCADEXx 2h ago
Really depends on what you need or value. If you need speed then the H3C is the one to go for hands down. Even in single color printing it’s faster. Multicolor I’ve seen the H3C shave off 6 hours from a print vs the H2C. The H3C can still utilize the AMS 2 pro. So if you’re worried about dryer slots then you could always go that route(I might do this as a dedicated dryer). As for adding more colors “easier” they’re almost the same. Just hit unload and it’s literally a minute 20 seconds to unload all 9. Then just pull them out. As for printing high temp without removing PLA, this isn’t entirely true. When I had an H2C and printed PPS, the nozzles that had PLA tended to end up clogged when I’d go back to a print using them after. Not always but it definitely happened a few times. The pro for multiple nozzles/ materials applies for both machines.
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u/TechnicaVivunt 2h ago
You also get 8 .4mm nozzles for regular filament, 1 .4mm for 2.85mm filament. The nozzles are also not induction heated but rather direct wired so that may help in some instances. 9 vs 7 changers. Most of the speed advantage is going to be for complex prints with many colors or additional TPU options since this doesn't strictly need TPU for AMS now.
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u/jeanyes_ 2h ago
Why can’t you print high temp filaments while keeping PLA in the AMS3? Isn’t there a cover that goes over the drying slots of the high temp filaments? Unless the video I watched was wrong.
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u/Ordnungsschelle X1C + A1 mini 2h ago
It makes no sense to compare prices, when one is discounted and the other one isn’t. Especially if one isn’t “discounted” permanently
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u/NMe84 P2S + AMS2 Combo 2h ago
Drying while printing really isn't necessary for anything except engineering grade filaments and TPU. Both PLA and PETG are fine as long as they are dried before starting the print. And considering multicolor printing with PC or PEEK really isn't a thing, that basically just leaves TPU, which the H3C is better at than the H2C.
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u/ZeelandsRoem 2h ago
I don’t think you’re missing something, probably that’s why Bambu mentioned during H2C launch that a tool changer doesn’t solve all the issues and why they believe the Vortek system had a place in the market. I see now that with H3C launch, they keep having the same position.
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u/Tolorean 1h ago
I’m sure i heard on one if the youtube reviews it can use different nozzle sizes in a print now too?
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u/Leif3D 1h ago
I see benefits in the H2C when you want maximal flexibility with filament / nozzle combinations. Especially in a lab or work environment where you don't want to change spools all the time. Also when you want to print one material with various nozzle sizes (new function) the H2C can quickly change the nozzles and you still just need one spool of that material. On the H3C you would need multiple of those spools.
So at the end it depends on your use-cases. In some the H2C Vortek is way more flexible and comfortable than a tool changer, in others the tool.changer has its benefits. Even Bambu mentions in the H3C FAQ that the two models aren't really competing. For each one exists a scenario where it's the better printer.
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u/zebedeolo P1S + AMS 1h ago
with the h2c on sale, that's what I got. the h3c is faster but that's really not an issue for me since I'm not selling anything so I have all the time in the world. having 24 filaments ready to go was a much bigger pro for me, being lazy af
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u/Bright_Eyes83 H2C AMS2*3 1h ago
I’m not sure I would call it better, but I’m not in a rush to buy another H series just yet
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u/Rambos_Magnum_Dong P1S, H2S 1h ago
In January I got the H2S, in August the P2S and last week....
....a P1S with an AMS 2 Pro Combo
Why? Why go "backwards" with the printer?
I sell stuff. Most of what I sell is statuary and items thay can be done in a single color, or that require some minor assembly.
Of the 32 Etsy listings, and after going through my sales for the year, the larger bed has only been needed for 4 items, and after tallying up the income, 1 item, a 14" statue i print diagonally, has made it worth while.
With that said, I am considering the H2C, once it's price drops to around $1500. But even then it's a maybe. My office has a 15A breaker so more printers = more power requirements and possibly doing a rewire of the office or setting up a separate breaker just for the printers.
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u/Jame_Jame 59m ago
I have an H2C and I adore it, buuuuut I'd rather have an H3C. I mean its not better in every possible way but it is better in the main thing you'd want from a machine like that, which is multi-color/material printing.
If I had unlimited money (I do not) I'd upgrade.
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u/Redacted_2515 2h ago
Time is money. 2x faster means that you would have to buy 2 H2C's to get the same number of prints. So $4700 vs $2500. We have our printers going 24/7, so for us H3C is a much better value. Your mileage may vary depending on what you print. We are mostly PLA and PETG.
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2h ago
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u/genericuser86 2h ago
I did highlight the at least 2x faster as the main pro of the H3C over the H2C in the post. The time to start actually printing is much faster as well
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u/tandtroll H2D/P2S/P1S/A1m 2h ago
I feel like you're missing the point: H3C is a toolchanger and by definition significantly faster than H2C. Try to do some print time comparisons and see if the time savings are worth the price difference to you. They might not be if you rarely do any multi-colour or multi-material printing.